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Post by miominmio on Jun 21, 2019 10:05:05 GMT
... when the teacher knows that the relationship between them has been damaged beyond repair already (and yes, I can elaborate if necessary). How on earth can she think that embracing the child is okay? I’m fuming, but since DD will start junior high this fall, I will probably let it go. Yes, I’m venting!
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johnnysmom
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Post by johnnysmom on Jun 21, 2019 10:16:25 GMT
I would need to know more. Was she hugging all the students (like on their way out the door for summer break)? And more importantly did she offer a hug or force a hug?
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Post by miominmio on Jun 21, 2019 10:33:25 GMT
I would need to know more. Was she hugging all the students (like on their way out the door for summer break)? And more importantly did she offer a hug or force a hug? DD was the only one being hugged, and yes, it was definitely forced.
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sueg
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Post by sueg on Jun 21, 2019 10:34:58 GMT
Is this the same DD and teacher that were involved in the bullying incident earlier? If so, then I would at least mention it to the school, even though you are leaving it soon. The teacher is overstepping her boundaries.
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Post by miominmio on Jun 21, 2019 10:43:48 GMT
Is this the same DD and teacher that were involved in the bullying incident earlier? If so, then I would at least mention it to the school, even though you are leaving it soon. The teacher is overstepping her boundaries. The same teacher. She promised DD earlier that she would be in the same class as her best friends (it’s the teachers in Elementary School who decide this. Last Friday, we found out that the teacher has lied to us, and DD is beyond hurt by this betrayal). Hugging her teacher is the last thing on her mind.
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sueg
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Post by sueg on Jun 21, 2019 10:50:19 GMT
Is this the same DD and teacher that were involved in the bullying incident earlier? If so, then I would at least mention it to the school, even though you are leaving it soon. The teacher is overstepping her boundaries. The same teacher. She promised DD earlier that she would be in the same class as her best friends (it’s the teachers in Elementary School who decide this. Last Friday, we found out that the teacher has lied to us, and DD is beyond hurt by this betrayal). Hugging her teacher is the last thing on her mind. So the teacher lied to her about placing her with friends, and now thinks a hug will make everything OK. What a joke! I was an upper elementary school teacher for many years in Australia, and it would have been very rare that I hugged a child. Only if they initiated it, as some did on the final day of school, or if they came to tell me of a difficult situation, like a family breakdown or grandparent bereavement, and it was obvious they needed comfort. And even then, I would ask first.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jun 21, 2019 12:08:47 GMT
In this instance I would do two things.
One, I would notify the school and let them know that the teacher forced a hug. I'm not sure if you meant forced as in physically made your dd hug her, or put her in an awkward position of offering the hug and moving forward for it. Either way, I would mention it.
Two, this is the moment when you teach your dd that she can say no to any physical touch in any moment, no apologies needed.
Tell her to put her hands outward, fingers spread, in the known stop position, and say, "Don't touch me." It's clear and unmistakable.
As an aside, in my kids' school, teachers are not allowed to give traditional hugs. Only one arm, side hugs. And they are also not allowed to instigate a hug, only respond to a child giving one.
Maybe check school policy to see where your school stands?
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peabay
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Post by peabay on Jun 21, 2019 13:04:05 GMT
I'll be honest - I'm with you: I'd let it go. She won't see this person again and what would you hope to gain from taking it up the line?
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Post by miominmio on Jun 21, 2019 13:14:18 GMT
I'll be honest - I'm with you: I'd let it go. She won't see this person again and what would you hope to gain from taking it up the line? I won’t gain a thing, so I will, most likely, let it go, but embracing a child who freezes (so obviously the child is uncomfortable) should never be okay.
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Post by miominmio on Jun 21, 2019 13:15:59 GMT
In this instance I would do two things. One, I would notify the school and let them know that the teacher forced a hug. I'm not sure if you meant forced as in physically made your dd hug her, or put her in an awkward position of offering the hug and moving forward for it. Either way, I would mention it. Two, this is the moment when you teach your dd that she can say no to any physical touch in any moment, no apologies needed. Tell her to put her hands outward, fingers spread, in the known stop position, and say, "Don't touch me." It's clear and unmistakable. As an aside, in my kids' school, teachers are not allowed to give traditional hugs. Only one arm, side hugs. And they are also not allowed to instigate a hug, only respond to a child giving one. Maybe check school policy to see where your school stands? The way DD described it, is that they were greeting the teacher as they were entering the room (shaking hands and saying good morning), and completely out of the blue, the teacher embraces her and hugs her.
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Post by Miss Ang on Jun 21, 2019 13:18:29 GMT
I won’t gain a thing, so I will, most likely, let it go, but embracing a child who freezes (so obviously the child is uncomfortable) should never be okay. I'm curious, did you witness this situation? Or is this what someone else told you they saw? I'm not questioning that this happened, just saying this would make a difference in how I responded.
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Post by verdepea on Jun 21, 2019 13:22:37 GMT
I'll be honest - I'm with you: I'd let it go. She won't see this person again and what would you hope to gain from taking it up the line? I won’t gain a thing, so I will, most likely, let it go, but embracing a child who freezes (so obviously the child is uncomfortable) should never be okay. Our teachers can make suggestions for placement but things can change. In fact we dont know until August where the kids will be placed. I am sorry it made your daughter feel uncomfortable, forced hugs are not right. There are other ways of affirmation than that. That said, I would let it go... with the teacher. I would give your daughter support as much as I could, but I am also the type of Mom of encouraging my child go get through their feelings and move on. With my youngest this wouldn't happen right away, we would be talking about it on and off for a while. Holding onto grievances can hurt if held onto too long. You can forgive, but you don't have to forget it.
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Post by miominmio on Jun 21, 2019 13:28:02 GMT
I won’t gain a thing, so I will, most likely, let it go, but embracing a child who freezes (so obviously the child is uncomfortable) should never be okay. I'm curious, did you witness this situation? Or is this what someone else told you they saw? I'm not questioning that this happened, just saying this would make a difference in how I responded. This is what DD told me happened to her
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Post by Miss Ang on Jun 21, 2019 13:36:03 GMT
I'm curious, did you witness this situation? Or is this what someone else told you they saw? I'm not questioning that this happened, just saying this would make a difference in how I responded. This is what DD told me happened to her If you didn't witness it, AND it's the end of the year and this relationship is over, I would let it go. My son had a 5th grade teacher that made his days at school absolutely miserable. If I could go back, I would have pulled him out of school and homeschooled him from the first issue. But he's 20 now (so it's a little late for that! LOL) so that ship has sailed. She was a terrible, human being. I tried talking to the principal and got absolutely nowhere; it just caused more strife and upset. She WAS a great teacher in the fact that she taught well but the snarky comments and rude behavior she exhibited towards my son were inexcusable. Like I said, my son is 20 and I still look back on those times and cringe. Believe me, there have been times where I wanted to call up this woman or write her a letter and tell her about the lasting impression her words and actions made on my child and encourage her to stop treating a student like that. But each time I considered doing so, it was with a rage filled hatred and I didn't want to represent myself that way. If it's over, I'd let it go, and work on coaching your daughter to understand that some people are just terrible, awful people AND that it's ok not to accept physical affection from someone. I'm sorry your daughter (and you) have had a rough school year. It really stinks!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 15:17:42 GMT
Inside, I'd be livid and would want to throat punch the teacher. Outside, I'd let it go and take my daughter out to celebrate the fact that she will no longer be in this person's class ever again.
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schizo319
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Post by schizo319 on Jun 21, 2019 16:17:30 GMT
I understand the desire to let it go. However, It sounds like this teacher is either clueless about boundaries at best or a manipulative bully at worst. I wouldn't want another kid to be put in an awkward situation with a forced hug next year, so I'd probably mention it in passing to her supervisor. Something like "Hey, I don't want to make a huge deal out of this, but a teacher hugged my child against her will today and it might be valuable for you to have a discussion/reminder with your staff about proper boundaries with students before next school year starts" (you don't even have to mention Mrs. Noboundaries by name)
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NoWomanNoCry
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Jun 21, 2019 17:05:49 GMT
The part where she didn’t place your DD with her BFF I would let it go..it is what it is at this point and who knows if other reasons that came to be as why she wasn’t placed in same room beyond this teachers doings.
The forced hug is what I would be pissed about and I wouldn’t let it go. No person should be forced to give or be given any type of physical affection if they don’t want to.
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Post by mom on Jun 21, 2019 20:43:43 GMT
I will be honest - I think there are two issues going on here.
1) the hurt your daughter feels - I understand she feels like the teacher lied to her and how that would hurt. But I think this is the perfect opportunity to sit daughter down and talk about how sometimes things happen that are out of someone else's control and maybe teacher wasn't intentionally trying to lie to her. Things happen. But ending a seemingly fine relationship over being disappointed is going to not teach her how to navigate the pain and get to the other side of it. Assuming teacher has been honest up to this point, I think she could deserve some grace. Your daughter extending her grace doesn't mean she is happy with what happened, but it shows that sometimes things dont work out the way we think they will.
2) the hug - again, assuming the teacher has never crossed boundaries before, I would not make a huge things about it. Instead I would encourage your daughter to be vocal about not wanting to be touched. She can be polite and still get her point across that she doesn't want to be touched. Assuming the teacher has been her friend up too this point, she probably was just trying to be friendly with your daughter after this issue with trust being broken. Use this time to show daughter different ways to say no. Sometimes in the business of school, teachers may not pick up on physical cues right away. I don't want to defend the teachers actions, but unless other issues have come up in the past that make you question her character, I wouldn't be so quick to call the school and have her reprimanded.
Either way, use this time to teach daughter skills in how to handle situations like this in the future.
Edited - Ok, apparently there is more to this teacher than just this. So my advice is to just ignore me. LOL
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Jun 21, 2019 21:05:59 GMT
Honestly, I’m having a hard time accepting that kids placement in school should include issues like who their best friends are. Part of the school experience is to learn to deal and get along with all sorts of people, peers or adults. I honestly think you and your daughter are being kind of self centered. And teachers are not meant to be friends, their role is totally different.
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maryannscraps
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Post by maryannscraps on Jun 21, 2019 21:42:17 GMT
I will be honest - I think there are two issues going on here. 1) the hurt your daughter feels - I understand she feels like the teacher lied to her and how that would hurt. But I think this is the perfect opportunity to sit daughter down and talk about how sometimes things happen that are out of someone else's control and maybe teacher wasn't intentionally trying to lie to her. Things happen. But ending a seemingly fine relationship over being disappointed is going to not teach her how to navigate the pain and get to the other side of it. Assuming teacher has been honest up to this point, I think she could deserve some grace. Your daughter extending her grace doesn't mean she is happy with what happened, but it shows that sometimes things dont work out the way we think they will. 2) the hug - again, assuming the teacher has never crossed boundaries before, I would not make a huge things about it. Instead I would encourage your daughter to be vocal about not wanting to be touched. She can be polite and still get her point across that she doesn't want to be touched. Assuming the teacher has been her friend up too this point, she probably was just trying to be friendly with your daughter after this issue with trust being broken. Use this time to show daughter different ways to say no. Sometimes in the business of school, teachers may not pick up on physical cues right away. I don't want to defend the teachers actions, but unless other issues have come up in the past that make you question her character, I wouldn't be so quick to call the school and have her reprimanded. Either way, use this time to teach daughter skills in how to handle situations like this in the future. You probably don't know this -- there was a previous thread about her daughter going through some bullying by children in her class AND their parents, and the teacher was complicit. It was an awful situation. There was a whole lot of background here. OP I think you're handling it well. Your daughter knows you have her back, and that she can count on you. Good luck to her next year in the new school.
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Post by mom on Jun 21, 2019 21:44:55 GMT
I will be honest - I think there are two issues going on here. 1) the hurt your daughter feels - I understand she feels like the teacher lied to her and how that would hurt. But I think this is the perfect opportunity to sit daughter down and talk about how sometimes things happen that are out of someone else's control and maybe teacher wasn't intentionally trying to lie to her. Things happen. But ending a seemingly fine relationship over being disappointed is going to not teach her how to navigate the pain and get to the other side of it. Assuming teacher has been honest up to this point, I think she could deserve some grace. Your daughter extending her grace doesn't mean she is happy with what happened, but it shows that sometimes things dont work out the way we think they will. 2) the hug - again, assuming the teacher has never crossed boundaries before, I would not make a huge things about it. Instead I would encourage your daughter to be vocal about not wanting to be touched. She can be polite and still get her point across that she doesn't want to be touched. Assuming the teacher has been her friend up too this point, she probably was just trying to be friendly with your daughter after this issue with trust being broken. Use this time to show daughter different ways to say no. Sometimes in the business of school, teachers may not pick up on physical cues right away. I don't want to defend the teachers actions, but unless other issues have come up in the past that make you question her character, I wouldn't be so quick to call the school and have her reprimanded. Either way, use this time to teach daughter skills in how to handle situations like this in the future. You probably don't know this -- there was a previous thread about her daughter going through some bullying by children in her class AND their parents, and the teacher was complicit. It was an awful situation. There was a whole lot of background here. OP I think you're handling it well. Your daughter knows you have her back, and that she can count on you. Good luck to her next year in the new school. ahh. No, I didn't recall that thread. Thanks for clueing me in.
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Post by nlwilkins on Jun 21, 2019 21:53:55 GMT
I disagree about letting it go. Your daughter needs to know you support her and have her back. There was an incident with my youngest that I "let go" and found out several years later that she felt that I let her down. If you let it go be sure your daughter is on board with that 100%. Just because bringing it up with the admin won't change things for your daughter's situation, it will validate your daughter's feelings and to me that is just as important.
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kate
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Post by kate on Jun 21, 2019 22:03:59 GMT
Something like "Hey, I don't want to make a huge deal out of this, but a teacher hugged my child against her will today and it might be valuable for you to have a discussion/reminder with your staff about proper boundaries with students before next school year starts" (you don't even have to mention Mrs. Noboundaries by name) This sounds like a reasonable and responsible way to handle it. You can let DD know you had the conversation, so that she knows you have her back.
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rickmer
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Post by rickmer on Jun 21, 2019 22:05:32 GMT
my MS had a *horrible* teacher in grade 4. there was clearly bullying going on - her words - not me assuming kids not getting along equals bullying. she promised me repeatedly she was dealing with it. and she didn't. i got an email from her the last week of school telling me the bullying was persisting and i was within my rights to escalate it to the VP. why the ever loving "f" did *she* not escalate it?!?! she told me she would keep my son safe and to trust her.
that being said, i had lots i could have gone back to the school with. i let it go. i transferred MS out of that school for grade 5 and he bloomed. my younger son was still there... didn't suffer from the same issues... so didn't want to create a huge stink and have there be blow back on HIM. although i did ensure youngest was *never* placed in her class.
soooo... i say let it go as well. use the opportunity to discuss with your DD that she doesn't have to hug anyone she doesn't want to hug and would never get in "trouble" for backing up and saying "no, thank you". i am hopeful there better things on the horizon for her.
as i said, my son thrived at the new school. he had friends, made sports team and was an enthusiastic student. most important thing to me was relief that the negative situation and lack of support didn't change *him* as a person.
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Post by miominmio on Jun 22, 2019 7:17:45 GMT
Honestly, I’m having a hard time accepting that kids placement in school should include issues like who their best friends are. Part of the school experience is to learn to deal and get along with all sorts of people, peers or adults. I honestly think you and your daughter are being kind of self centered. And teachers are not meant to be friends, their role is totally different. We might be, and theoretically I do agree with you regarding «the school experience». In this instance, my daughter has been bullied in school this past year, and we were promised she would be placed in the same class as her two besties (one of them is dealing with severe arthritis, and is really struggling with being different than her peers, and she and her parents got the same promise). If we hadn’t gotten a promise, but more a general «we’ll try», I would definitely have sucked it up, and told DD to do the same, even though she would have been gutted even then. But the promise, is what makes me angry. Do not make promises you can’t or won’t keep.
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Post by miominmio on Jun 22, 2019 7:23:44 GMT
Update: junior high has placed DD and her friend with arthritis together, no doubt because they both need each other (and that the number of kids in the class hadn’t reached the limit yet). I’ll be eternally grateful for their willingness to accomodate two girls who need their friend. Will junior high be smooth sailing? Of course not, but at least they have each other’s back.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 22, 2019 14:55:50 GMT
I'll be honest - I'm with you: I'd let it go. She won't see this person again and what would you hope to gain from taking it up the line? I won’t gain a thing, so I will, most likely, let it go, but embracing a child who freezes (so obviously the child is uncomfortable) should never be okay. I agree. I will hug kids, but only if they initiate. It's part of teaching about consent!
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kate
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Post by kate on Jun 22, 2019 23:03:30 GMT
i got an email from her the last week of school telling me the bullying was persisting and i was within my rights to escalate it to the VP. why the ever loving "f" did *she* not escalate it?!?! I have told parents to take complaints to the principal before, and it didn't mean I wasn't complaining myself! It's just that oftentimes, complaints from parents carry more weight and get quicker action than complaints from teachers. I understand that the teacher in your case had a history of inaction; my comment is more general - if a teacher tells you to bring a concern to the dean/headmaster/principal, there may be a good reason.
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on Jun 23, 2019 4:56:04 GMT
i got an email from her the last week of school telling me the bullying was persisting and i was within my rights to escalate it to the VP. why the ever loving "f" did *she* not escalate it?!?! I have told parents to take complaints to the principal before, and it didn't mean I wasn't complaining myself! It's just that oftentimes, complaints from parents carry more weight and get quicker action than complaints from teachers. I understand that the teacher in your case had a history of inaction; my comment is more general - if a teacher tells you to bring a concern to the dean/headmaster/principal, there may be a good reason. Absolutely this. Teachers may complain or express concern about something but too often nothing changes until parents get involved.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jun 23, 2019 5:55:17 GMT
Honestly, I’m having a hard time accepting that kids placement in school should include issues like who their best friends are. Part of the school experience is to learn to deal and get along with all sorts of people, peers or adults. I honestly think you and your daughter are being kind of self centered. And teachers are not meant to be friends, their role is totally different. I don’t think it’s self centered at all. As the parent of a kid who was *never* placed in a homeroom class with any of her closest friends, even though the school sends home a questionnaire every spring asking that specific question (who would you really like in your class next year?) it became a very big deal for my introverted kid who is slow to warm up. Always being placed with kids she didn’t know well made for very rough sailing in grades K through 2. The current and upcoming grade teachers decide together which kids will go in which class, and it wasn’t until her very sympathetic 2nd grade teacher went to bat for her and made sure she had a few good friends in her class the following year. My kid really flourished last year because she didn’t feel like she had to be on guard from the first minute the school year started because she knew going in there were at least a few kids in her class that would always have her back and that she could be herself with. That one thing made all the difference in the world. For the first time since pre-K she wasn’t saying she hated school every.single.day.
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