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Post by mom on Jun 30, 2019 16:01:31 GMT
No, I don’t think college debt forgiveness is a good idea. I believe that parents and children need to start being more realistic in their college choices. Opt for the affordable choice instead of the most prestigious, quit taking on huge amounts of debt for a degree in a low paying field, and stop pushing the idea that everyone must go to college. I have a college-aged DS so I’m very aware of the cost of college now. DH and I have worked very hard to be able to afford to send our son to school debt free. We made this a priority through out our life and have sacrificed to make it happen. We have seen several different scenarios from DS’s friends regarding college this past year. A few have gone to our local CC for free under a program our county has that requires them to do 40 hours of service per semester. One went to a private school and didn’t make very good grades and I’m not sure what he is doing next. Another went to the same school as DS and made poor grades first semester and did badly in the spring and ending up leaving towards the end of the semester. He is not going back and probably shouldn’t have gone in the first place. He wasn’t ready and didn’t have the maturity to handle being away from home. The point is everyone is different and needs to do what is right for them. Attending a 4 year university and living away from home isn’t the right choice for everyone.
i don’t understand why our society has no problem thinking that anyone should be able to spend a fortune and take on huge debt for a college education. We wouldn’t support the idea that anyone should be able to finance any amount of money for a home or a car. We need to get back in the mindset of doing what we can afford. And yes, I know a college education is different than a house or a car, but we still need to look at it realistically. Going into debt for 150k to go into a field that pays 40k a year is ludicrous. A lot of college debt money is going towards the college experience rather than the college education. YES! The idea that anyone and everyone should be able to go to whatever college they want to (as long as they can take out a loan) is nuts to me. You go where you can afford or go into the military so they will pay for it. We had a very real conversation with both of our kids about what we had saved, how much college costs, etc. They knew they weren't getting a blank check. Both took classes at a community college so we saved money there. One lived at home for two years. Both have jobs where they work 20+ a week to pay for books, etc. The reality is at 18 years old, most kids cannot grasp what it will really be like when they have to pay back tens of thousands (or more) of dollars in loans. Thats where parents should step in and help guide them. Help them see that taking 100K in loans to be a social worker isn't a good idea. Yet, it seems most parents are shoving their kids to take out loans and not know how they will pay them back. But encouraging kids to take out all these loans and then expecting the government to wipe them clean is beyond me. If you take them out then you need to be held accountable in paying them back. Personal responsibility is a real thing.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 30, 2019 16:02:52 GMT
No I don't think Congress should erase or forgive student loan debt. When you take out a loan you should pay it back-all of it. When DS went to college he spent the first 2 years at community college-it was much cheaper and we knew he'd get a wonderful education of the first 2 years-the basics. He then transferred all of his credits to an in state University that has the degree program he was looking for (film and video), had a great reputation and was very reasonable in cost. Would he have preferred to go to a California school for film? Absolutely. But it wasn't in our budget and we and my ex had planned to pay for his college education without loans if we could. By DS going to the in state school we were able to do that. It all turned out in the end. DS has a great job editing commercials now and he loves it. Is it his dream job? No, he'd rather be editing film. But he's young and he's just starting in his career. The best part is he doesn't have any student loans. Had he gone to an out of state school he would have. His in state school was around $10,000 a year, so it was 20,000 for the last 2 years. And much less than that for the first 2 years. This is exactly what my daughter did, first two years at a community college and she put herself through school graduating with no debt but a lot of knowledge. She worked her ass off and it really paid off. She makes a way above average salary and has been able to buy and owns free and clear, her own home here in So Cal. It is not necessary to run up massive debt to get a good education but it does take dedication and hard work. I also believe there should be programs where some student debt can be forgiven for serving a few years after graduation in poverty areas teaching or contributing in some way.
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Jun 30, 2019 16:30:05 GMT
As someone who worked my ass off, during college and after, to pay off 25k+ in student loans, I am 1000% behind forgiving student loan debt. For one, OP is right, I'm not a heartless selfish asshole who only thinks about myself, and 2, our economy cannot survive with millions of young people starting their lives with thousands of dollars of unsecured debt. I can't tell you how many people well into their 30s I know who can't afford to own a house solely because they are still paying off their student loans.
A few recently published articles showed that 86 billion in student loan debt is owed by people aged 60+, so this is not just a young people thing. That means people are paying off student loan debt with social security money.
I do believe our next recession will be in part due to student loan debt, it will be soon, and everyone will suffer from it, including you and your children who may have paid off their debt, and me, so yes, I would love to see things factor removed, in hopes that it will lessen the pain of an economic downturn for EVERYONE.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 30, 2019 16:37:54 GMT
No, I don’t think college debt forgiveness is a good idea. I believe that parents and children need to start being more realistic in their college choices. Opt for the affordable choice instead of the most prestigious, quit taking on huge amounts of debt for a degree in a low paying field, and stop pushing the idea that everyone must go to college. I have a college-aged DS so I’m very aware of the cost of college now. DH and I have worked very hard to be able to afford to send our son to school debt free. We made this a priority through out our life and have sacrificed to make it happen. We have seen several different scenarios from DS’s friends regarding college this past year. A few have gone to our local CC for free under a program our county has that requires them to do 40 hours of service per semester. One went to a private school and didn’t make very good grades and I’m not sure what he is doing next. Another went to the same school as DS and made poor grades first semester and did badly in the spring and ending up leaving towards the end of the semester. He is not going back and probably shouldn’t have gone in the first place. He wasn’t ready and didn’t have the maturity to handle being away from home. The point is everyone is different and needs to do what is right for them. Attending a 4 year university and living away from home isn’t the right choice for everyone.
i don’t understand why our society has no problem thinking that anyone should be able to spend a fortune and take on huge debt for a college education. We wouldn’t support the idea that anyone should be able to finance any amount of money for a home or a car. We need to get back in the mindset of doing what we can afford. And yes, I know a college education is different than a house or a car, but we still need to look at it realistically. Going into debt for 150k to go into a field that pays 40k a year is ludicrous. A lot of college debt money is going towards the college experience rather than the college education. YES! The idea that anyone and everyone should be able to go to whatever college they want to (as long as they can take out a loan) is nuts to me. You go where you can afford or go into the military so they will pay for it. We had a very real conversation with both of our kids about what we had saved, how much college costs, etc. They knew they weren't getting a blank check. Both took classes at a community college so we saved money there. One lived at home for two years. Both have jobs where they work 20+ a week to pay for books, etc. The reality is at 18 years old, most kids cannot grasp what it will really be like when they have to pay back tens of thousands (or more) of dollars in loans. Thats where parents should step in and help guide them. Help them see that taking 100K in loans to be a social worker isn't a good idea. Yet, it seems most parents are shoving their kids to take out loans and not know how they will pay them back. But encouraging kids to take out all these loans and then expecting the government to wipe them clean is beyond me. If you take them out then you need to be held accountable in paying them back. Personal responsibility is a real thing. Bold mine in Mom's quote. Not everyone has parents who can or will guide them. And some of these parents have not gone to college or know the first thing about it.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 30, 2019 16:46:22 GMT
And for the record, I don't think debt should be completely eliminated, but interest rates on the loans should be lowered, and there should be a way for students to offset their debt by participating in community service or using their degree in the community that helped them achieve it.
More money in the hands of average Americans will mean more money in our economy. The average American will spend that money, because they want to and in many cases it's a necessity.
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seaexplore
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Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Jun 30, 2019 16:56:45 GMT
Loans should not be forgiven! Lower rates? Yes. Pathways to EARN forgiveness? Yes. Make college more affordable? Yes.
I’m another who chose community college, lived at home, took 3 years because I was working. Transferred to a CSU, lived on campus, worked 3 jobs (RA, maintenance, tutor/note taker), carried 20+ units a semester (science major so NOT easy classes), took 3 years and $25k in loans! Thankfully I went into teaching and was able to get my loans forgiven after teaching math/science in a title 1 school with very low pay for 5 years.
My husband was married at 19. His college was completely free because of this.
We also chose to live in a less desirable area so we would be able to afford a lot. We built our house on our own, yes ALL manual labor on us! Every last bit of it.
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Post by mom on Jun 30, 2019 17:00:10 GMT
YES! The idea that anyone and everyone should be able to go to whatever college they want to (as long as they can take out a loan) is nuts to me. You go where you can afford or go into the military so they will pay for it. We had a very real conversation with both of our kids about what we had saved, how much college costs, etc. They knew they weren't getting a blank check. Both took classes at a community college so we saved money there. One lived at home for two years. Both have jobs where they work 20+ a week to pay for books, etc. The reality is at 18 years old, most kids cannot grasp what it will really be like when they have to pay back tens of thousands (or more) of dollars in loans. Thats where parents should step in and help guide them. Help them see that taking 100K in loans to be a social worker isn't a good idea. Yet, it seems most parents are shoving their kids to take out loans and not know how they will pay them back. But encouraging kids to take out all these loans and then expecting the government to wipe them clean is beyond me. If you take them out then you need to be held accountable in paying them back. Personal responsibility is a real thing. Bold mine in Mom's quote. Not everyone has parents who can or will guide them. And some of these parents have not gone to college or know the first thing about it. Yes - obviously not everyone has parents that care. BUT there are many, many more who are just having their kids sign on the dotted line without thinking realistically about how these kids are going to pay for it later. Also? There are other people who can/will step in off they are asked to. THOSE people need to be really honest about what the students future will look like with thousands of dollars in loans. I am that person for a friend of my oldest son. We meet usually 2-3x a year and reevaluate where he is and where he wants to go. When he graduated with my son, he was left with no way to pay for a 4 year school (his parents are there but refuse to help with anything). I helped him get enrolled in our community college and he has been there for 2 years now. He is 3 hours short of getting his associates degree. He has paid for his college out of his own pocket, as he went. He works and that money goes to his school. It isn't easy but he is doing it. His next step is enlisting. He is planning on going to the Air Force so he can continue with his education.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Jun 30, 2019 17:14:48 GMT
I seriously doubt a wholesale wipeout of student loans without caps would pass Congress. I’m even doubtful it can be done WITH caps unless Dems are in the WH, House and Senate.
However, Congress can and should do these: (1) step in and do something about the escalating costs of higher education (2) expand the current loan forgiveness programs and repeal the tax for forgiven loans (3) increase Pell Grants and expand eligibility and qualified expenses (4) allow student debt to be discharged in bankruptcies (5) lower the interest rate (6) reform financial aid rules (make it more accessible to middle class families) (7) establish a federal refinancing program (8) do not approve Trump’s proposal to eliminate the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program for loans taken after 2020 (9) do not approve Trump’s proposed cuts to work-study programs (10) reform the tax code so that employers do not pay a payroll tax on contributions toward employees’ student loan repayments (this will incentivize more employers to help their employees pay back student debt)
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 30, 2019 17:27:09 GMT
Bold mine in Mom's quote. Not everyone has parents who can or will guide them. And some of these parents have not gone to college or know the first thing about it. Yes - obviously not everyone has parents that care. BUT there are many, many more who are just having their kids sign on the dotted line without thinking realistically about how these kids are going to pay for it later. Also? There are other people who can/will step in off they are asked to. THOSE people need to be really honest about what the students future will look like with thousands of dollars in loans. I am that person for a friend of my oldest son. We meet usually 2-3x a year and reevaluate where he is and where he wants to go. When he graduated with my son, he was left with no way to pay for a 4 year school (his parents are there but refuse to help with anything). I helped him get enrolled in our community college and he has been there for 2 years now. He is 3 hours short of getting his associates degree. He has paid for his college out of his own pocket, as he went. He works and that money goes to his school. It isn't easy but he is doing it. His next step is enlisting. He is planning on going to the Air Force so he can continue with his education. He is lucky to have a friend like you.
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 13:58:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 17:32:03 GMT
DH and I are well aware that our generation will never see our social security contributions. Our money is being used to pay for the golden years of boomers who felt entitled to retire at 65, but will live well into their 90s, and will use up their own contributions long before that and rely on ours instead. Personally, I think we should get to exempt our SS contributions to help pay for our own kids’ college, and let all those “bootstrap” boomers figure out how to pay for their Florida retirement communities themselves. If they’re well and able enough to float around attending Trump rallies and telling the rest of us how lazy and entitled we are, they’re well enough to go back to work and pay their own way. Fuck those seniors who feel "entitled" to retire at 65 after working all their life and paying off all their own debts. Those are the seniors who went to war so that you aren't teaching German.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
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Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Jun 30, 2019 17:39:19 GMT
DH and I are well aware that our generation will never see our social security contributions. Our money is being used to pay for the golden years of boomers who felt entitled to retire at 65, but will live well into their 90s, and will use up their own contributions long before that and rely on ours instead. Personally, I think we should get to exempt our SS contributions to help pay for our own kids’ college, and let all those “bootstrap” boomers figure out how to pay for their Florida retirement communities themselves. If they’re well and able enough to float around attending Trump rallies and telling the rest of us how lazy and entitled we are, they’re well enough to go back to work and pay their own way. Fuck those seniors who feel "entitled" to retire at 65 after working all their life and paying off all their own debts. Those are the seniors who went to war so that you aren't teaching German. AMEN! They are very much NOT entitled. They are some of the hardest working people I have ever met! My dad retired from teaching after 40 years only to become caregiver for his parents. He is now 73 and finally able to actually retire and enjoy the hard work he has put forth. Oh, and as a teacher, he cannot collect SS even though he paid into it for many years before teaching.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jun 30, 2019 18:14:39 GMT
DH and I are well aware that our generation will never see our social security contributions. Our money is being used to pay for the golden years of boomers who felt entitled to retire at 65, but will live well into their 90s, and will use up their own contributions long before that and rely on ours instead. Personally, I think we should get to exempt our SS contributions to help pay for our own kids’ college, and let all those “bootstrap” boomers figure out how to pay for their Florida retirement communities themselves. If they’re well and able enough to float around attending Trump rallies and telling the rest of us how lazy and entitled we are, they’re well enough to go back to work and pay their own way. Fuck those seniors who feel "entitled" to retire at 65 after working all their life and paying off all their own debts. Those are the seniors who went to war so that you aren't teaching German. The boomers she’s referring to, are the children of those you’re referring to, i.e my boomer parents. But sure the whole “picking on those who fought for your freedom” makes a far better hand slap. 😑
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 18, 2024 13:58:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 18:53:00 GMT
Fuck those seniors who feel "entitled" to retire at 65 after working all their life and paying off all their own debts. Those are the seniors who went to war so that you aren't teaching German. The boomers she’s referring to, are the children of those you’re referring to, i.e my boomer parents. But sure the whole “picking on those who fought for your freedom” makes a far better hand slap. 😑 Good try, but she's referring to people who have been retired for many years and living into their 90s.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2019 18:58:26 GMT
The boomers she’s referring to, are the children of those you’re referring to, i.e my boomer parents. But sure the whole “picking on those who fought for your freedom” makes a far better hand slap. 😑 Good try, but she's referring to people who have been retired for many years and living into their 90s. My only point is that there are lots of types of people taking from our tax money because they didn’t earn/save/plan enough, and that the retirees who seem to gripe most about others getting entitlements are right there on the list of those benefiting. My generation is paying for their retirement while simultaneously grappling with the exorbitant cost of getting our kids to college so they can keep society going, and unless something changes, we will not get to draw our own SS when the time comes. We’re giving it all to you. You’re welcome.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2019 19:02:07 GMT
DH and I are well aware that our generation will never see our social security contributions. Our money is being used to pay for the golden years of boomers who felt entitled to retire at 65, but will live well into their 90s, and will use up their own contributions long before that and rely on ours instead. Personally, I think we should get to exempt our SS contributions to help pay for our own kids’ college, and let all those “bootstrap” boomers figure out how to pay for their Florida retirement communities themselves. If they’re well and able enough to float around attending Trump rallies and telling the rest of us how lazy and entitled we are, they’re well enough to go back to work and pay their own way. Fuck those seniors who feel "entitled" to retire at 65 after working all their life and paying off all their own debts. Those are the seniors who went to war so that you aren't teaching German. Did they all? What about the conscientious objectors? Do I have to keep working to pay for them, too? The vast majority of the greatest generation has passed on. The people currently sucking down my social security contributions - the oldest of the boomers - are the folks riding around in golf carts in Florida going to Trump rallies telling the rest of us how lazy and entitled we are.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 30, 2019 19:10:39 GMT
$1.2 trillion - with a t. Let's be real here. This is not a feasible idea. And frankly it will do absolutely nothing to actually fix the skyrocketing cost of higher education. I absolutely support expanding the programs to forgive loans in exchange for working in under-served areas. I also think we should increase funding of community college and state schools - which can vary tremendously - and probably more importantly end the prestige rat race that has made college admissions a nightmare. In too many cases, the student would be much, much better served at their local state flagship obtaining an excellent, affordable education - but instead they're drowning themselves in debt for a private university that has negligible, if any actual benefit. Our total cost of attendance for our excellent flagship university is less than $30,000. Our neighboring state is actually even cheaper with a tuition exchange program bringing it to just about $20,000. The reality is because education is state run, the costs, quality etc varies tremendously across the country. And too often students and/parents are making really unfortunate financial decisions. All of what you say is true - but, for argument's sake - the Trump tax cuts for the rich will cost between $1.5 trillion and $2.3 trillion (depending on who you ask) and deficit hawks didn't blink an eye. If you're a supply-sider, it seems to me that the argument of putting the money currently being spent on loan payments back into the economy might actually be a good thing. It's funny to me how different priorities are. Anyway. What's obvious to me from this thread is that the Democrats who are pushing this plan have a lot of work to do to educate the general public about the realities of student loan debt and our economy. Everyone operating on "I paid mine off" or "my kids paid theirs off after they finished college 25 years ago" I think is not aware of the cost of even a basic undergraduate degree today. And I do wonder who they think is going to care for them and provide services in their old age if the next generation can't afford college. Well said. I think that any time there is a change, there are initially going to be people that are not happy about it. Were people happy when they started the Social Security program? Getting my professional license was expensive and time consuming. They have now made some changes that make it easier. Was I irritated that I didn't have the benefit of the new procedure? Of course. But I also was able to see how the changes would make a difference for the profession in the long run. People need to get over themselves and see how college costs are affecting us all, whether you have children who will be in college or not...or if you have student loans yourself or not.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 30, 2019 19:21:05 GMT
I also don't think that one type of education should be included. Just like traditional four year college isn't right for everyone, neither is community college or a trade school.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 30, 2019 19:35:55 GMT
I agree that 20-25 years ago education costs were not what they are today but neither were salaries or minimum wage. I have lived long enough to understand that cost for goods and services along with wages will always go up. It is all relative except in times of republican control of our government. When they are in control the middle class takes it up the ass. Costs skyrocket and the wealthy get wealthier at the expense of the middle class.
When my daughter was paying for her education the cost was much lower but so was what she was earning. I think minimum wage was around $3.00 an hour. She did without, worked a lot, studied hard, lived at home and paid her bills. She didn't live in a dorm at an expensive school and party her way through college. I think doing that is great if you can afford that lifestyle but not all can. Being unrealistic about what one can afford is a huge problem today especially with social media pushing extravagant lifestyles. Basic economics should be taught every year of a child's education from first grade on.
If we forgive education debt for those who chose that route, who is going to pay for it? Taxpayers that is who. I for one am not willing to do that. (I am pissed to be paying for corporate welfare and tax cuts for the rich too) I have willingly paid more than my fair share of taxes over the years as we've never had any debt, have only one child and few write offs. I absolutely do not want to pay for someone's education bills who knowingly signed on the line for that debt.
When I got married both my husband and I made about $2.00 an hour. We bought a crappy little house in a lower class neighborhood. It didn't even have a hallway it was so tiny but it was what we could afford. Friends and relatives gave us a hard time about living “there”. They all bought bigger, better homes in better neighborhoods and every time they built up a little equity they refinanced to go on vacation or buy a new expensive car. We drove cars until they died not wanting to invest in something that loses value over time. They'd get a tax return and spend it all on things that will not grow in value. We invested in things that grew in value. It wasn't too many years until we passed up those who teased us and a few of them are struggling in their old age because they thought they deserved to live beyond their means when they were young.
While we watched our budget we weren't miserly, just realistic and frugal. I never felt deprived. We went on vacations, partied and generally enjoyed ourselves a lot. It has paid off tremendously. We can afford anything we desire and my daughter will inherit a boatload of money. Anyone can do it by planning and being realistic. No one is forced to go in debt for a $150,000 education, that they cannot afford, to be successful.
If you are not born into wealth there are only a couple of ways to get there, hard work or win the lottery. If you think you are going to win the lottery, good luck with that.
I am not trying to derail this thread but if you want to be concerned about forgiving debt it should be about medical debt. Education is a choice, medical necessity is not.
It is absolutely sickening that people in this country go under from necessary medical treatment. I don't hear any representatives, or want to be representatives, talking about that or coming up with a plan to forgive those debts or lower those costs.
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 13:58:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 19:48:48 GMT
The people currently sucking down my social security contributions - the oldest of the boomers - are the folks riding around in golf carts in Florida going to Trump rallies telling the rest of us how lazy and entitled we are. So you are okay with the people who are democrats sucking down your social security contributions. Just not anyone who doesn't vote the way you believe. I don't know what you have against the older generation because they did scrimp and save and they aren't living off *your* money, but you have some sort of a bone to pick with them. Or at least some of them.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jun 30, 2019 19:50:23 GMT
There are so many different pieces to this puzzle, but if it isn't solved it WILL cause major issues for everyone, not just those who are in debt.
Not everyone needs to go to college. But so many of the jobs that are available do require a degree and/or specialized training. We need to figure out who are those with an aptitude for those types of jobs, and help them get the education they need to fill them. The days when you could do semi-skilled or unskilled labor are gone - replaced by automation and outsourcing. Companies are requiring a degree for entry-level positions. Even to be a teacher's assistant, my district requires an AA or 60 credit hours. And yet the job pays at most $13/hour.
If millions of Americans are held down by major debt for education, they will not be able to do many of the things older generations take for granted. Owning a home? Out of the question. Having a family? Not likely. We are already seeing articles about various industries being "killed" by millenials. It's not necessarily that they set out to kill these industries, it's that they can't afford them. Going out for a $20 meal at Applebee's just isn't going to be something they can do, not when they're still paying off student loans at age 40. So when Applebee's goes under, that's a whole new set of people losing their jobs.
People live longer than before and many aren't prepared for retirement. So they stay in the workforce, holding positions that in the past would have been filled by younger people moving up the ranks. You can't really tell the old people that they MUST retire to make way for the younger workers, since they are relying on that income for their living expenses.
This is where the middle class comes from - people who get an education and are able to get a nice job - not too crazy, not too menial - but in the middle. The wages for these people are stagnant, to get those jobs you must have college which likely means debt. So our middle class is going away. We're going to end up with a very small wealthy class, a HUGE lower class, and almost no middle class. That's not really a recipe for success for any country. Usually when that happens, a revolution follows. And it's generally not a peaceful one. I'm not saying that it should happen here in the US, just pointing out historically that when you have such a huge disparity between the 1% and the 99%, it doesn't take all that much to get the 99% riled up.
Saying "well, I had to work hard and I paid off my loans so nobody should get a free ride!" is kind of silly. Just because something was difficult for you doesn't mean that we have to keep that way of doing things forever. Are you going to complain that the lazy kids dealing with leukemia and other cancers today should die because 40 years ago, those treatments didn't exist? Do you believe that using financial software to keep track of your checkbook and bills is unfair because people 20 years ago had to use pencil and paper to balance their checkbooks? Turn it around - when I went to university, tuition was $3K per year. It's not $11K+ per year. Maybe today's kids should be given the same opportunities that I had, and tuition should be rolled back to $3K. After all, if it was that cheap when I was a student, it's not fair that they should have to pay more.
What I find very odd is that the US is a country where we insist on personal responsibility for things like education and healthcare - you have to pay for it out of pocket because SOCIALISM! We never have trouble finding the money for unlimited presidential golf trips, never-ending wars in far-off places because supposedly the people over there 'hate our freedom', corporate subsidies and bail-outs, or the newest, coolest bomb that blows things into pieces .000000001mm wide instead of .0000001mm wide. But suggest that the government do things to actually help the people who pay the taxes?
I will gladly give up my share of the war in Iranquistorea to pay for a couple of college grads to be able to put their loans behind them and move on with their lives.
Maybe we should start measuring the price of things in more easily-understandable units. We are currently spending $750 per night per child to keep children locked up in camps. I will host a child in my home for 16 days at no cost. That is $12K that can go towards paying tuition for a college student at one of the state universities in my state. Heck, give me FOUR children for 16 days and I'll cover tuition for someone to get their entire bachelor's degree.
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Post by peasapie on Jun 30, 2019 19:52:56 GMT
No to rebates for previous loans, but I think a student who attends state or community college and maintains a certain GPA should eligible for a tuition refund for each semester.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 30, 2019 19:57:42 GMT
Maybe we should start measuring the price of things in more easily-understandable units. We are currently spending $750 per night per child to keep children locked up in camps. I will host a child in my home for 16 days at no cost. That is $12K that can go towards paying tuition for a college student at one of the state universities in my state. Heck, give me FOUR children for 16 days and I'll cover tuition for someone to get their entire bachelor's degree. What the eff is up with that? Why is the cost so high when these children aren't getting soap or toothbrushes or even adequate adult care and supervision? What private entities are profiting from this and how the hell do they sleep at night?
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 30, 2019 20:06:25 GMT
Maybe we should start measuring the price of things in more easily-understandable units. We are currently spending $750 per night per child to keep children locked up in camps. I will host a child in my home for 16 days at no cost. That is $12K that can go towards paying tuition for a college student at one of the state universities in my state. Heck, give me FOUR children for 16 days and I'll cover tuition for someone to get their entire bachelor's degree. What the eff is up with that? Why is the cost so high when these children aren't getting soap or toothbrushes or even adequate adult care and supervision? What private entities are profiting from this and how the hell do they sleep at night? Because everything in this country has been privatized, schools, prisons, war. These private companies are making a ton of money.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2019 20:15:12 GMT
The people currently sucking down my social security contributions - the oldest of the boomers - are the folks riding around in golf carts in Florida going to Trump rallies telling the rest of us how lazy and entitled we are. So you are okay with the people who are democrats sucking down your social security contributions. Just not anyone who doesn't vote the way you believe. I don't know what you have against the older generation because they did scrimp and save and they aren't living off *your* money, but you have some sort of a bone to pick with them. Or at least some of them. If they outlive their own SS contributions and continue to receive checks, they most certainly are living off my money - and honestly I don’t care. I just think it would be nice if they recognized that and extended some grace to folks trying to keep things going now. My generation will likely not get to reap the benefits of our own SS contributions. I put in the part about Trump supporters just to get a rise out of y’all, and because those are the folks who feel entitled to my money while voting to deny benefits to others in need. I think senior citizens should be able to enjoy a decent retirement. I think refugees should be treated humanely when they enter our country. I think Gen Z should be able to attend college without taking on six figure debt and without their Gen X parents sacrificing their own retirement. I’m willing that my tax dollars be used for all those things.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 30, 2019 20:19:44 GMT
What the eff is up with that? Why is the cost so high when these children aren't getting soap or toothbrushes or even adequate adult care and supervision? What private entities are profiting from this and how the hell do they sleep at night? Because everything in this country has been privatized, schools, prisons, war. These private companies are making a ton of money. Prisons should not have been privatized. Profiting off incarcerated people is just gross. Like I said, I don't understand how the owners of these companies sleep at night.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
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Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jun 30, 2019 20:26:15 GMT
They all bought bigger, better homes in better neighborhoods and every time they built up a little equity they refinanced to go on vacation or buy a new expensive car. We drove cars until they died not wanting to invest in something that loses value over time. Ok, fair enough, but if people only bought a car every....what? 15-20 years? what happens to all those auto manufacturing jobs? If people stopped vacationing then what happens to those who work at hotels, all those 'vacation destination' cities who depend that other peoples vacation dollars to keep their cities operating? I don't know what the answer is regarding education but something needs to be done. FAFSA is jacked up for sure. I'm 42 and currently taking college course which cost far more than when dh was in college almost 20 years ago (and we're still paying on his loans) because I couldn't get an aid back then. I moved out when I was 18 but had to use my parents income to file for financial aid (which I wasn't even going to ask them for and it likely wouldn't have helped much beyond possibly loans). My sister had a baby at age 19, she went to a private college for free....got a degree she's never used. She was 'rewarded' for having a baby as a teen, I was 'punished' for waiting until I could financially support a child. Since we're still paying off our loans we haven't saved up much for our kids, which means if/when they go to college they'll likely need loans too....it's a vicious cycle.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 30, 2019 21:15:49 GMT
That is a ridiculous statement. I should go into debt so that those who work in those jobs still have a job? Vacation spots will survive. I hear people who complain about the cost of their children's education talk about buying $100 eye cream or facials and designer handbags. It is about realistic choices. Life is not fair. Everyone does not get a trophy whether they win or lose. If your parents screwed you I am sorry that happened but it is not up to me to pay for that.
Having said that, education costs are way, way too much but so are a lot of other things.
ETA I am assuming your parents paid for your sister's education. If that is not true excuse the assumption.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jun 30, 2019 21:34:31 GMT
The boomers she’s referring to, are the children of those you’re referring to, i.e my boomer parents. But sure the whole “picking on those who fought for your freedom” makes a far better hand slap. 😑 Good try, but she's referring to people who have been retired for many years and living into their 90s. She said boomers more than once. Who by definition were born from 1946 and did absolutely nothing to defend us from Germany. You’re welcome. I agree with her. And so would my parents. My parents are boomers. My father is 75 and still works his full time accountancy job because he loves it and he’s not ready to retire - even though he could have by his superannuation and Australian retirement age, 10 years earlier. My mother is 70 and works 4 days a week for the same reason. They are the exception rather than the rule among their friends though. Most of them felt entitled to retire as soon as they could.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 18, 2024 13:58:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 21:34:45 GMT
What the eff is up with that? Why is the cost so high when these children aren't getting soap or toothbrushes or even adequate adult care and supervision? What private entities are profiting from this and how the hell do they sleep at night? Because everything in this country has been privatized, schools, prisons, war. These private companies are making a ton of money. Because a government babysitter would be a better plan? Umm no. Who do you think government gets its money from?
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jun 30, 2019 21:48:51 GMT
Because everything in this country has been privatized, schools, prisons, war. These private companies are making a ton of money. Because a government babysitter would be a better plan? Umm no. Who do you think government gets its money from? It works in Australia. I really thought the HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme) system worked pretty well when I used it. You get an interest free loan from the government (repayments are tied to inflation) and you start paying it back once you earn 45,000 a year approx, in weekly payments starting at $9, that work on a sliding scale. The more you earn, the more you pay back. ![](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190630/623b6af3fd424837a541bed1da2a671b.jpg) It’s not perfect, but it does make college more affordable. And more reasonable to repay, every cent you pay reduces your loan. And not just for one group of people. It’s eligibility wasn’t tied to my middle class parents income.
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