|
Post by teach4u on Aug 6, 2019 0:34:45 GMT
We need rot focus on mentally ill shooters. No denying that. But what what about cities where 10-20 shot a week is the norm? How do we address that ?
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Aug 6, 2019 0:40:37 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow.
Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines.
That would be a great start, IMO.
eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless.
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 6, 2019 0:49:12 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow. Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines. That would be a great start, IMO. eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. I agree with this. As well as looking at how to make people feel like they have other options for life besides joining a gang, violence, etc.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 6, 2019 0:50:33 GMT
as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. I agree with this 100% I would advocate for baby steps. If legislatures go in full force, I think the digging in the heels will be more. Put forth 3 control measures and "compromise" but enacting one or two. Rinse and repeat and keep chipping away. The President today said something about a Red Flag Law. Colorado's legislature passed and enacted one this last session. Our sheriffs have gone on record saying that they will not enforce the law. Just flat out will not do it. I didn't realize people could buy guns over the internet and have them shipped to them. Here you can buy online, but it must be sent to a registered gun dealer and pass a background check.
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 6, 2019 1:04:06 GMT
as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. I agree with this 100% I would advocate for baby steps. If legislatures go in full force, I think the digging in the heels will be more. Put forth 3 control measures and "compromise" but enacting one or two. Rinse and repeat and keep chipping away. The President today said something about a Red Flag Law. Colorado's legislature passed and enacted one this last session. Our sheriffs have gone on record saying that they will not enforce the law. Just flat out will not do it. I didn't realize people could buy guns over the internet and have them shipped to them. Here you can buy online, but it must be sent to a registered gun dealer and pass a background check. I've seen people posting guns for sale on Facebook selling sites, and it apparently is legal. My brother was arguing with me on FB last night (regarding gun laws), saying that "the El Paso shooter bought his gun legally." Duh. That is the problem! We need stricter laws. When I brought up selling a gun on FB or from person to person, he said that it was on the buyer to know if he/she was supposed to have a gun or not. And that if buyer was prohibited from getting a gun but was caught with one, there was a risk of jail time. That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. I don't know how gun buying laws vary from state to state since I have never (and will never) bought a gun. But I do believe that they need to be consistent across the country for anything to work.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 6, 2019 1:09:55 GMT
I agree with this 100% I would advocate for baby steps. If legislatures go in full force, I think the digging in the heels will be more. Put forth 3 control measures and "compromise" but enacting one or two. Rinse and repeat and keep chipping away. The President today said something about a Red Flag Law. Colorado's legislature passed and enacted one this last session. Our sheriffs have gone on record saying that they will not enforce the law. Just flat out will not do it. I didn't realize people could buy guns over the internet and have them shipped to them. Here you can buy online, but it must be sent to a registered gun dealer and pass a background check. I've seen people posting guns for sale on Facebook selling sites, and it apparently is legal. My brother was arguing with me on FB last night (regarding gun laws), saying that "the El Paso shooter bought his gun legally." Duh. That is the problem! We need stricter laws. When I brought up selling a gun on FB or from person to person, he said that it was on the buyer to know if he/she was supposed to have a gun or not. And that if buyer was prohibited from getting a gun but was caught with one, there was a risk of jail time. That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. I don't know how gun buying laws vary from state to state since I have never (and will never) bought a gun. But I do believe that they need to be consistent across the country for anything to work. I am sure the person does know. That is why they are avoiding the legal gun dealers that have to do background checks. I have no issue with universal background checks and if you want to sell a gun privately, you need to go to a dealer and have the buyer have a background check. An extra $20 to do the check is not cost prohibitive.
|
|
|
Post by cindyupnorth on Aug 6, 2019 1:13:34 GMT
Other countries have mental illness. Yet don't have all these mass shootings. What's the theme? mainly young white men with guns. hmmmmm
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 6, 2019 1:15:19 GMT
Other countries have mental illness. Yet don't have all these mass shootings. What's the theme? mainly young white men with guns. hmmmmm I think the OP was asking about the not headline making shootings in this country. The daily/weekly occurrences in some cities. The ones that are not mainly young white men with guns.
|
|
|
Post by cindyupnorth on Aug 6, 2019 1:55:12 GMT
Yea, I didn't really get what she was asking. but I stand by what I posted anyway.
|
|
scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,884
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
|
Post by scrappinmama on Aug 6, 2019 2:15:41 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow. Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines. That would be a great start, IMO. eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. This a a great start. In addition, we need to invest in inner cities with high crime. Invest with our time and resources by supporting community outreach efforts, provide a safe place for young people so that they can start off in the right direction, spend money in the schools, etc. Show the children from these communities that there is a better life out there.
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on Aug 6, 2019 2:17:23 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow. Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines. That would be a great start, IMO. eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. No baby steps, we need to take big, giant leaps.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 6, 2019 3:04:47 GMT
Don't want baby steps? Then history has shown you will get no steps.
|
|
|
Post by manda on Aug 6, 2019 4:49:14 GMT
I read several great articles today about this hot topic. This was one of my favorites. mises.org/wire/why-gun-ownership-rates-tell-us-little-about-homicide-trends-america?fbclid=IwAR0dHEaD-5yKIb_a14DUDtY26klGoKyOKbPCkwfC9BpRlLn2BTRl6s4z2CYI don’t believe gun control is the end all be all answer. Actually, I’m not sure gun control would stop any of these mass shootings either. Additionally... statistically, it’s a very very very small percentage of people killed in mass shootings. We have bigger problems on a regular day around the country when it comes to violence with or without guns. Guns aren’t the problem. Neither is mental illness. It’s more complex than that. We will never solve this violence problem until we look deeper at our society and culture here in the US.
|
|
|
Post by manda on Aug 6, 2019 4:55:26 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow. Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines. That would be a great start, IMO. eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. I read something today that talked about how gun control laws are actually shown to be more effective on the state level instead of the federal level. Politicians are afraid of alienating their voters on the federal level in a way that state level is not. The majority of gun deaths, including mass shootings, are not due to a high capacity gun. They have been regular hand guns. It’s just that media focuses on the mass shootings which hits our emotions. Banning assault rifles would immediately make many citizens law breakers and is being argued through the courts. At least here in California. FYI, I don’t own a gun and probably never will. I do believe in the constitution which is what makes a lot of this difficult to just eliminate guns and/or certain types of guns. I also don’t know the answer but don’t believe tight gun control will fix this.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 21, 2024 18:11:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 14:05:20 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow. Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines. That would be a great start, IMO. eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. I read something today that talked about how gun control laws are actually shown to be more effective on the state level instead of the federal level. Politicians are afraid of alienating their voters on the federal level in a way that state level is not. The majority of gun deaths, including mass shootings, are not due to a high capacity gun. They have been regular hand guns. It’s just that media focuses on the mass shootings which hits our emotions. Banning assault rifles would immediately make many citizens law breakers and is being argued through the courts. At least here in California. FYI, I don’t own a gun and probably never will. I do believe in the constitution which is what makes a lot of this difficult to just eliminate guns and/or certain types of guns. I also don’t know the answer but don’t believe tight gun control will fix this. I believe you are wrong about that.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 6, 2019 14:18:31 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow. Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines. That would be a great start, IMO. eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. I read something today that talked about how gun control laws are actually shown to be more effective on the state level instead of the federal level. Politicians are afraid of alienating their voters on the federal level in a way that state level is not. The majority of gun deaths, including mass shootings, are not due to a high capacity gun. They have been regular hand guns. It’s just that media focuses on the mass shootings which hits our emotions. Banning assault rifles would immediately make many citizens law breakers and is being argued through the courts. At least here in California. FYI, I don’t own a gun and probably never will. I do believe in the constitution which is what makes a lot of this difficult to just eliminate guns and/or certain types of guns. I also don’t know the answer but don’t believe tight gun control will fix this. I’m almost stunned by some of your remarks in this post and in the one preceding it. "Guns aren’t the problem." If you don’t think guns are the problem, what is? "We will never solve this violence problem until we look deeper at our society and culture here in the US." What exactly does this mean? What does “look deeper” mean? Do you mean a federally-funded study? We already know the US has a deeply-entrenched gun culture that does not exist in other mature countries. Here we regard gun ownership as a right whereas in other nations it’s regarded as a privilege. "The majority of gun deaths, including mass shootings, are not due to a high capacity gun." It’s true that handguns have been used more in mass shootings than military-style assault weapons. However, if you look at the history of mass shootings in the US, the incidents with the most number of fatalities usually resulted from the use of assault weapons. As grisly as it is to point out, the reason assault weapons are preferred by mass shooters is simply because they are highly efficient at killing – they can kill dozens of people in a matter of mere minutes. In Dayton, 9 were killed and 27 injured in less than a minute with an assault rifle and a two-barreled 100-round magazine. In Las Vegas, where 58 were killed and 422 wounded, 14 assault rifles were found amongst the shooter’s arsenal in his hotel suite. Some of them were modified with bump stocks which allowed trigger rates of 90 rounds in 10 seconds. "I read something today that talked about how gun control laws are actually shown to be more effective on the state level instead of the federal level." How can state laws be more effective when it’s well known that guns and modifications allowed in others states can easily be transported to another state with stricter gun laws? Here in Chicago, just this past weekend, while all of us were riveted to the news about El Paso and Dayton, we had 32 shooting incidents, 7 died, 52 wounded. Most of the illegal weapons confiscated came from Indiana. So Illinois may have strict gun laws but if people can still get guns from neighboring states, it facilitates all these shootings.
|
|
|
Post by mrssmith on Aug 6, 2019 14:43:52 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow. Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines. That would be a great start, IMO. eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. This a a great start. In addition, we need to invest in inner cities with high crime. Invest with our time and resources by supporting community outreach efforts, provide a safe place for young people so that they can start off in the right direction, spend money in the schools, etc. Show the children from these communities that there is a better life out there. yes. They need jobs and investment in the communities. I agree about the schools too, especially in Chicago. There are a lot of groups doing the kind of work you explain above. They need money. I would also suggest some of those kids know there's a better life out there; I'm guessing a lot of those kids know that it is well out of reach for them.
|
|
|
Post by wezee on Aug 6, 2019 15:20:52 GMT
One of the questions I have is why all the shooting? How much of Chicago's shootings are over drugs and gangs? IMO Once you get a hold of the drug problem you will make headway in the gangs and shootings. The problem with gun laws is criminals don't follow laws.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Aug 6, 2019 15:32:28 GMT
One of the questions I have is why all the shooting? How much of Chicago's shootings are over drugs and gangs? IMO Once you get a hold of the drug problem you will make headway in the gangs and shootings. The problem with gun laws is criminals don't follow laws.Drunk drivers don’t follow laws. Bank robbers don’t follow laws. Pedophiles don’t follow laws. So, by your reasoning we should wipe all DUI and robbery laws off the books and let pedophiles know that they can do what they please with our children since we are eliminating the laws that they don’t follow. Yes, drugs and gangs are PART of the problem. But denying that easy access to guns plays a big part isn’t helpful in finding a solution either. The “criminals will break gun laws” justification for doing nothing legislatively to control access to firearms and high capacity magazines is a farce, IMO, marketed very heavily by the NRA.
|
|
msladibug
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,533
Jul 10, 2014 2:31:46 GMT
|
Post by msladibug on Aug 6, 2019 15:37:07 GMT
explain this... who are the terrorists?
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Aug 6, 2019 15:42:11 GMT
Federal gun control legislation. That ALL states must follow. Including 1) a national registry of ALL gun/firearm purchases - including at gun shows and online. 2) Banning semi automatic style assault firearms. 3) Banning high capacity magazines. That would be a great start, IMO. eta: as long as people from Chicago can easily obtain firearms in surrounding states (the same with any urban city), trying to legislate gun control locally is pointless. I read something today that talked about how gun control laws are actually shown to be more effective on the state level instead of the federal level. Politicians are afraid of alienating their voters on the federal level in a way that state level is not. The majority of gun deaths, including mass shootings, are not due to a high capacity gun. They have been regular hand guns. It’s just that media focuses on the mass shootings which hits our emotions. Banning assault rifles would immediately make many citizens law breakers and is being argued through the courts. At least here in California. FYI, I don’t own a gun and probably never will. I do believe in the constitution which is what makes a lot of this difficult to just eliminate guns and/or certain types of guns. I also don’t know the answer but don’t believe tight gun control will fix this. I wanted a pet gerbil desperately as a child growing up in California. I couldn’t have one because they are illegal in CA because of the fears of the damage they could do to the agriculture. So, they were made illegal to own in CA for the good of society. I find it absurd that the CA government can regulate what pets people are allowed to own for the good of society - not to mention purchasing decongestants - but when it comes to regulating firearms and high capacity ammunition magazines, suddenly that is “off-limits.” Guns kill things. That is their sole purpose. To not regulate killing devices is irresponsible, IMO, especially in a state that regulates what pets you can have.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 6, 2019 15:48:01 GMT
One of the questions I have is why all the shooting? How much of Chicago's shootings are over drugs and gangs? IMO Once you get a hold of the drug problem you will make headway in the gangs and shootings. The problem with gun laws is criminals don't follow laws.Drunk drivers don’t follow laws. Bank robbers don’t follow laws. Pedophiles don’t follow laws. So, by your reasoning we should wipe all DUI and robbery laws off the books and let pedophiles know that they can do what they please with our children since we are eliminating the laws that they don’t follow. Yes, drugs and gangs are PART of the problem. But denying that easy access to guns plays a big part isn’t helpful in finding a solution either. The “criminals will break gun laws” justification for doing nothing legislatively to control access to firearms and high capacity magazines is a farce, IMO, marketed very heavily by the NRA. Amen. This argument, among many, has been a dependable and durable soundbite by pro-gun advocates. If we make the mistake of using the benchmark of 100% compliance to any law, we wouldn’t have laws remaining at all.
|
|
|
Post by gar on Aug 6, 2019 15:49:03 GMT
You'll have a hard time convincing anyone from any other civilised nation (as well as many from your own) of that. The difference between the USA and others isn't the the lack of people with mental illness, or having citizens with different ideologies, or young men who play violent games...it's the easy access to guns.
|
|
msladibug
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,533
Jul 10, 2014 2:31:46 GMT
|
Post by msladibug on Aug 6, 2019 16:01:01 GMT
No, they all aren't white. But we do have a hella lota home grown domestic terrorists... very scary.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 21, 2024 18:11:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 16:56:08 GMT
One of the questions I have is why all the shooting? How much of Chicago's shootings are over drugs and gangs? IMO Once you get a hold of the drug problem you will make headway in the gangs and shootings. The problem with gun laws is criminals don't follow laws.Not all shooter are criminals What about the ones that shoot their siblings What about the ones that shoot their spouse in a fit of rage What about the boyfriend that shoots his pregnant girlfriend What about the one that shoot their neighbour in a fit of rage What about the ones that shoot up schools What about the ones that shoot up movie theatres What about the ones that shoot up concerts What about the ones that shoot up church congregations What about the ones that shoot up nightclubs What about all the other individual shooting that occur somewhere every day for one reason or another that are not gang related. None of the above were criminals until they pulled that trigger.
|
|
Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,979
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
|
Post by Sarah*H on Aug 6, 2019 17:22:20 GMT
Have you heard of the concept of the million dollar block? Or the school to prison pipeline? You could start with googling those if you're unfamiliar with the concepts. As a society we should be asking ourselves what could we do in these communities - what resources could we provide, how much could we improve schools and community centers and build libraries and playgrounds with that same amount of money being used to incarcerate people, often for things like say, um... selling rolled cigarettes or smoking a joint. What might troubled communities look like if the adults who could/would/should eventually become leaders and role models didn't spend decades in and out of prison for petty infractions? When it comes to places like the south side of Chicago that you're talking about here, there really is an endless amount of sociological discussion and urban planning research we could/should be talking about and implementing completely unrelated to gun control but I guess if that really happened in a meaningful way, we'd take away one of the big talking points for people on the right.
|
|
|
Post by 16joy on Aug 6, 2019 17:59:49 GMT
I think that is what Manda was referring to prior to the gun violence and deaths.
|
|
Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,979
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
|
Post by Sarah*H on Aug 6, 2019 18:38:44 GMT
That may be but then her point is unrelated to mass casualty shootings like happened twice this weekend. It's kind of like Neil de Grasse Tyson implying that we shouldn't care so much about being gunned down in public spaces because more people die every day from the flu and that we only care about these events because the media tells us to. This is conflation of so many issues, some largely unrelated, some tangentially related and all really avoiding the growing public health crisis which is that Americans can't go anywhere in public spaces without having to worry about being murdered or injured by an angry white man. The two things that DO relate these two public health crises - poverty, bad policy and hopelessness in cities and angry white men gunning down crowds of people is that easy access to guns makes a bad situation that much worse.
|
|
|
Post by pierkiss on Aug 6, 2019 19:27:44 GMT
In cities like this violence is a multi-systemic problem. Gun legislation alone will not do a lot to address the underlying issues. You’ve got to address the healthcare issue (mental health), poverty, disintegrating family units, access to healthy food. Access to education and changing the idea that education is worthless and a waste of time. And fighting the drug problem.
And I don’t have any ideas on where to start or things to implement at those starting points.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 21, 2024 18:11:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 19:50:51 GMT
One of the questions I have is why all the shooting? How much of Chicago's shootings are over drugs and gangs? IMO Once you get a hold of the drug problem you will make headway in the gangs and shootings. The problem with gun laws is criminals don't follow laws. If you remove guns from the hands of criminals they would be less violent, for the most part, while ignoring the laws. And I suspect some criminals would think twice about committing a crime without a gun to give them a sense of power needed to commit the crime. The largest source of guns used by criminals and gangs started life as guns purchased legally. During the period of 2012-2015 the FBI estimated 1.2M guns were stolen from individuals with another 22K from gun stores. And that’s just guns reported stolen. The number could actually be higher when you include guns stolen but not reported. The majority of those guns end up on the street. The logical conclusion is if there are less guns sold legally, there would less guns for gangs and criminals to get their hands on. If it was harder to buy guns, there would be less guns to steal and less guns available to commit mass shootings, suicide, domestic violence shootings, accidental shootings that includes leaving guns where children can get their hands on and either kill themselves or someone else like another child in the room. There are a lot of ways innocent people are shot with guns. And no question these reasons need to be addressed. But in the meantime we can start with the common denominator and that is guns. Guns should be hard to get and the owner should be held responsible for the actions of his/her gun regardless whether the owner is involved with those actions or not. I mean after all there is only one purpose for guns and that is to kill. They serve no other purpose except to kill. Because of that, it’s just plain common sense that if one is going to own a gun or guns they should be held to a higher standard of responsibility than the rest of us who don’t.
|
|