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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 11, 2019 2:31:15 GMT
I did think about it and I said what I said. I don’t owe strangers on the series of tubes an education on being a human being. Then don't start the education, only to say you don't owe education when it's brought to your attention that the way you went about it stops people from asking questions. I really dont don't want to fight with you, but come ON. I don’t answer one question to your satisfaction and you’re all up in my ass. So interesting. Curious, were you all up in my business under your alter(s), too, or did you just get ballsy with a new name? Be best.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 2:50:12 GMT
Then don't start the education, only to say you don't owe education when it's brought to your attention that the way you went about it stops people from asking questions. I really dont don't want to fight with you, but come ON. I don’t answer one question to your satisfaction and you’re all up in my ass. So interesting. Curious, were you all up in my business under your alter(s), too, or did you just get ballsy with a new name? Be best. You pointed out something about what someone said. I pointed out something about what you said. YOU didn't handle it very well. I know you need the last word so go ahead.
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 11, 2019 3:01:50 GMT
I hate when the Laurens and Gias and the rest of the trumpers slink back under new names. What a bunch of pathetic people who haven't the spine to be who they really are. If you can't even stop hiding how can anyone take anything you say serious?
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Post by Merge on Aug 11, 2019 5:04:34 GMT
Why are those on our side of the argument the only ones who are supposed to carefully consider our words, reflect, Just from this issue alone, try to remember how it felt to explain being politically correct to those who objectEd to it. Everyone who was for being politically correct asked those who thought it was ridiculous to just consider their words, reflect and have empathy for those you may be offending. No. You’re equating apples and oranges. People who are being racist and xenophobic, supporting a bully, don’t get to demand consideration and sensitivity for their viewpoint. One side here is standing up for the oppressed and marginalized. The other side is standing up for the right to continue being bullies, and then crying “but muh viewpoint” when people call them out on it. One side is here participating under our regular pea names. If you don’t have the courage to do the same, that tells me that even you realize what you’re saying here is unsupportable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 13:14:41 GMT
Just from this issue alone, try to remember how it felt to explain being politically correct to those who objectEd to it. Everyone who was for being politically correct asked those who thought it was ridiculous to just consider their words, reflect and have empathy for those you may be offending. No. You’re equating apples and oranges. People who are being racist and xenophobic, supporting a bully, don’t get to demand consideration and sensitivity for their viewpoint. One side here is standing up for the oppressed and marginalized. The other side is standing up for the right to continue being bullies, and then crying “but muh viewpoint” when people call them out on it. Nlwilkins was not supporting Trump, in fact she condemned him and asked some good questions. She isn't racist, or xenophobic. She stood up for the oppressed and marginalized and got a handslap for asking questions. It's apples and apples. You twisted it into oranges that don't exist. You decide on a scenario that works to dismiss words you don't want to hear. That tells me all I need to know about you.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 11, 2019 13:28:04 GMT
Just from this issue alone, try to remember how it felt to explain being politically correct to those who objectEd to it. Everyone who was for being politically correct asked those who thought it was ridiculous to just consider their words, reflect and have empathy for those you may be offending. No. You’re equating apples and oranges. People who are being racist and xenophobic, supporting a bully, don’t get to demand consideration and sensitivity for their viewpoint. One side here is standing up for the oppressed and marginalized. The other side is standing up for the right to continue being bullies, and then crying “but muh viewpoint” when people call them out on it. One side is here participating under our regular pea names. If you don’t have the courage to do the same, that tells me that even you realize what you’re saying here is unsupportable. She's just here to start tangential arguments that aren't the topic. Blocked, deleted. Pretty sure it's shhzfas or whatever that one's name was. Anyway!
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 11, 2019 13:39:03 GMT
@dottyscrapper said it on another thread. Human rights should be universal to "human" beings. It's not political. It's not a disagreement. It shouldn't be a matter of educating anyone. It should come from within. And if people can't pause for a minute and say to themselves, my God what if this were me and my children, then you can't teach that. Preschoolers have more empathy.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 11, 2019 13:43:19 GMT
@dottyscrapper said it on another thread. Human rights should be universal to "human" beings. It's not political. It's not a disagreement. It shouldn't be a matter of educating anyone. It should come from within. And if people can't pause for a minute and say to themselves, my God what if this were me and my children, then you can't teach that. Preschoolers have more empathy. I mean, it's just intellectually lazy. "Why can't they have a backup plan?" Let me ask, how many parents do you think would have a backup plan for immediate AND long term child care if they suddenly were going to be incapacitated/missing for days to months (or possibly forever)? If you were "disappeared" in the middle of the day tomorrow with NO way to communicate to anyone, no phone call, (not you jeremysgirl , the general you) what would happen to your pets? Your children? Your home? Your bills? Your car? Your job? I don't have that backup plan. I mean, at some point my parents would go looking for me and go to my house, but I bet it would be a couple of days. We don't talk every day. If it was a weekend, my job wouldn't look for me. But suddenly these undocumented workers (likely underpaid and with limited resources) are supposed to have some magical backup plan. Fuck 100% of the way off with that.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 11, 2019 13:46:47 GMT
SockMonkey back up plans are a luxury of the economically secure.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 11, 2019 13:49:45 GMT
SockMonkey back up plans are a luxury of the economically secure. And really, I *am* economically secure. And there would still be serious consequences of me disappearing without a trace. Back up plans are unrealistic and ineffective and instead we shouldn't be rounding people up like the Nazis did. Or like we did with the Japanese Americans during WWII. But here we are in the United States, back on our bullshit.
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Post by busy on Aug 11, 2019 13:53:03 GMT
SockMonkey back up plans are a luxury of the economically secure. And even then... most people don't REALLY have them. At best, most people have a plan for distribution of their assets and guardians selected for their children in the event of death. But that doesn't kick in if you just disappear. Virtually no one has a back-up plan in place for this kind of scenario and it's absurd to expect that.
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Post by dewryce on Aug 11, 2019 13:56:06 GMT
SockMonkey back up plans are a luxury of the economically secure. Exactly. My backup plan to our high mileage vehicle breaking down is just to hope it doesn’t happen. Do I recognize that isn’t the best plan? Sure. But that doesn’t mean another one is feasible right now. And let’s not pretend a lot of what comes out of his mouth isn’t hot air. He had threatened it before and backed down because there was such an uproar.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 11, 2019 13:58:14 GMT
You all make good points. I guess I will never be able to relate to a person who can look at the kids crying and scared and feel like what happened was a good thing.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 11, 2019 14:00:11 GMT
You all make good points. I guess I will never be able to relate to a person who can look at the kids crying and scared and feel like what happened was a good thing. The kids crying was the goal. The goal is terror.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 14:21:55 GMT
@dottyscrapper said it on another thread. Human rights should be universal to "human" beings. It's not political. It's not a disagreement. It shouldn't be a matter of educating anyone. It should come from within. And if people can't pause for a minute and say to themselves, my God what if this were me and my children, then you can't teach that. Preschoolers have more empathy. I mean, it's just intellectually lazy. "Why can't they have a backup plan?" Let me ask, how many parents do you think would have a backup plan for immediate AND long term child care if they suddenly were going to be incapacitated/missing for days to months (or possibly forever)? If you were "disappeared" in the middle of the day tomorrow with NO way to communicate to anyone, no phone call, (not you jeremysgirl , the general you) what would happen to your pets? Your children? Your home? Your bills? Your car? Your job? I don't have that backup plan. I mean, at some point my parents would go looking for me and go to my house, but I bet it would be a couple of days. We don't talk every day. If it was a weekend, my job wouldn't look for me. But suddenly these undocumented workers (likely underpaid and with limited resources) are supposed to have some magical backup plan. Fuck 100% of the way off with that. Any parent with a serious illness and knows they have the potential to become incapacitated even temporarily has a backup plan. To pretend that you must be financially stable to have that conversation with someone and it's a magical idea is intellectually lazy.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 11, 2019 14:56:50 GMT
It is obvious to me that you are isolated from the realities of people living here illegally. Against my better judgement I'm going to say something that I'm sure you will have some snappy comeback for...but here goes.
I live in a city in a lower middle class neighborhood. Some of my neighbors are here illegally. Their children went to school with mine and our kids played together. Many of them don't speak fluent English. They don't have a grandma across town who can take in their kids when they are deported. While they are friendly, we have communication barriers. So their community are often other illegal immigrants who would most likely be deported right along with them and would not have the ability to care for their children in that circumstance.
For people who are so against social programs , they certainly seem to have no problem with burdening the social service system with these children. Because that's the outcome. For people who purport family values, it apparently doesn't apply to these children who will forever be mentally damaged from losing their parents.
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Post by Skellinton on Aug 11, 2019 15:11:31 GMT
I mean, it's just intellectually lazy. "Why can't they have a backup plan?" Let me ask, how many parents do you think would have a backup plan for immediate AND long term child care if they suddenly were going to be incapacitated/missing for days to months (or possibly forever)? If you were "disappeared" in the middle of the day tomorrow with NO way to communicate to anyone, no phone call, (not you jeremysgirl , the general you) what would happen to your pets? Your children? Your home? Your bills? Your car? Your job? I don't have that backup plan. I mean, at some point my parents would go looking for me and go to my house, but I bet it would be a couple of days. We don't talk every day. If it was a weekend, my job wouldn't look for me. But suddenly these undocumented workers (likely underpaid and with limited resources) are supposed to have some magical backup plan. Fuck 100% of the way off with that. Any parent with a serious illness and knows they have the potential to become incapacitated even temporarily has a backup plan. To pretend that you must be financially stable to have that conversation with someone and it's a magical idea is intellectually lazy. What about parents who are killed in a car accident or shot and killed while shopping at Wal-mart? What about the people who have no family for a myriad of reasons? What about people who have family that aren’t fit or willing to take care of someone else’s child?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 11, 2019 15:27:43 GMT
The kids crying was the goal. The goal is terror. The dt administration goal is to be as cruel as possible!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 11, 2019 15:34:04 GMT
It is obvious to me that you are isolated from the realities of people living here illegally. Against my better judgement I'm going to say something that I'm sure you will have some snappy comeback for...but here goes. I live in a city in a lower middle class neighborhood. Some of my neighbors are here illegally. Their children went to school with mine and our kids played together. Many of them don't speak fluent English. They don't have a grandma across town who can take in their kids when they are deported. While they are friendly, we have communication barriers. So their community are often other illegal immigrants who would most likely be deported right along with them and would not have the ability to care for their children in that circumstance. For people who are so against social programs , they certainly seem to have no problem with burdening the social service system with these children. Because that's the outcome. For people who purport family values, it apparently doesn't apply to these children who will forever be mentally damaged from losing their parents. Well said and so true! Any parent with a serious illness and knows they have the potential to become incapacitated even temporarily has a backup plan. To pretend that you must be financially stable to have that conversation with someone and it's a magical idea is intellectually lazy. In this particular situation, the Mississippi raids, many back up caretakers and neighbors were also rounded up and their kids were/are also left alone. This cannot be compared to ill parents.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Aug 11, 2019 15:44:39 GMT
This guide was produced by the Southern Poverty Law Center for Georgia’s undocumented immigrants. link Please take a moment to read or even just skim it and you’ll be overwhelmed by what it will require just to protect the well-being of their children in case they are deported. It’s very easy for some of us to say just have a back-up plan when we’re comfortably ensconced in the safety of our homes, typing posts on a message board, without even a thought that federal authorities would knock on our doors or arrest us when we show up for work the next day. This guide doesn’t and couldn’t even address the psychological trauma the children will be exposed to and the long-term effects of that trauma. On top of this, there is a heightened hatred toward Latinos at this time. This is not who we are. This is not what our country is about. Just extend some empathy toward these families and let’s just stop judging them for the choices they had to make to earn a living.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 15:58:15 GMT
It is obvious to me that you are isolated from the realities of people living here illegally. Against my better judgement I'm going to say something that I'm sure you will have some snappy comeback for...but here goes. I live in a city in a lower middle class neighborhood. Some of my neighbors are here illegally. Their children went to school with mine and our kids played together. Many of them don't speak fluent English. They don't have a grandma across town who can take in their kids when they are deported. While they are friendly, we have communication barriers. So their community are often other illegal immigrants who would most likely be deported right along with them and would not have the ability to care for their children in that circumstance. For people who are so against social programs , they certainly seem to have no problem with burdening the social service system with these children. Because that's the outcome. For people who purport family values, it apparently doesn't apply to these children who will forever be mentally damaged from losing their parents. No snappy comebacks from me. I tend to match energy, so if you have a reasonable discussion I will engage in the same way. If there's a "snappy comeback" from me, you can bet it was in response to the same. Sometimes they are taken from their workplace so their plan could still work. We know plans don't always go as planned, but that doesn't mean you don't bother to put one in place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 16:15:13 GMT
Any parent with a serious illness and knows they have the potential to become incapacitated even temporarily has a backup plan. To pretend that you must be financially stable to have that conversation with someone and it's a magical idea is intellectually lazy. What about parents who are killed in a car accident or shot and killed while shopping at Wal-mart? What about the people who have no family for a myriad of reasons? What about people who have family that aren’t fit or willing to take care of someone else’s child? We're talking about parents who know they could be deported at any time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 16:17:20 GMT
It is obvious to me that you are isolated from the realities of people living here illegally. Against my better judgement I'm going to say something that I'm sure you will have some snappy comeback for...but here goes. I live in a city in a lower middle class neighborhood. Some of my neighbors are here illegally. Their children went to school with mine and our kids played together. Many of them don't speak fluent English. They don't have a grandma across town who can take in their kids when they are deported. While they are friendly, we have communication barriers. So their community are often other illegal immigrants who would most likely be deported right along with them and would not have the ability to care for their children in that circumstance. For people who are so against social programs , they certainly seem to have no problem with burdening the social service system with these children. Because that's the outcome. For people who purport family values, it apparently doesn't apply to these children who will forever be mentally damaged from losing their parents. Well said and so true! Any parent with a serious illness and knows they have the potential to become incapacitated even temporarily has a backup plan. To pretend that you must be financially stable to have that conversation with someone and it's a magical idea is intellectually lazy. In this particular situation, the Mississippi raids, many back up caretakers and neighbors were also rounded up and their kids were/are also left alone. This cannot be compared to ill parents. They can be compared in the way that they both know it could happen at any time. Pit was in response to this question.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 11, 2019 16:18:15 GMT
What about parents who are killed in a car accident or shot and killed while shopping at Wal-mart? What about the people who have no family for a myriad of reasons? What about people who have family that aren’t fit or willing to take care of someone else’s child? We're talking about parents who know they could be deported at any time. We are talking about a raid of hundreds of connected people. There goes their support system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 16:21:26 GMT
What about parents who are killed in a car accident or shot and killed while shopping at Wal-mart? What about the people who have no family for a myriad of reasons? What about people who have family that aren’t fit or willing to take care of someone else’s child? We're talking about parents who know they could be deported at any time. What kind of a plan would you suggest that would work for them? We've had various reasons up thread why some of them wouldn't work......no family, no close friends etc. But you don't come up with any suggestions except to say they should have a plan. Si I'm asking what plan would you put in place if you were in the same situation as they were?
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Post by nightnurse on Aug 11, 2019 16:24:04 GMT
[/quote]Any parent with a serious illness and knows they have the potential to become incapacitated even temporarily has a backup plan. To pretend that you must be financially stable to have that conversation with someone and it's a magical idea is intellectually lazy. [/quote]
To assume that your experiences and expectations are universal is intellectually lazy. I’m guessing you don’t work in healthcare or social services because no, any parent with a serious illness does not have a back up plan. Some people lack toe resources in funds, family, education and/or critical thinking to be able to make such plans. To assume everyone has the same abilities and resources and planning style and ways of dealing with situations is either lazy, arrogant or deliberately obtuse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 16:32:42 GMT
We're talking about parents who know they could be deported at any time. What kind of a plan would you suggest that would work for them? We've had various reasons up thread why some of them wouldn't work......no family, no close friends etc. But you don't come up with any suggestions except to say they should have a plan. Si I'm asking what plan would you put in place if you were in the same situation as they were? The position is that it doesn't always work and they are not financially stable so why would they bother. I had a different take on that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 17:01:26 GMT
What kind of a plan would you suggest that would work for them? We've had various reasons up thread why some of them wouldn't work......no family, no close friends etc. But you don't come up with any suggestions except to say they should have a plan. Si I'm asking what plan would you put in place if you were in the same situation as they were? The position is that it doesn't always work and they are not financially stable so why would they bother. I had a different take on that. That wasn't answering my question, which was..... .So I'm asking what plan would you put in place if you were in the same situation as they were? Have you anything to contribute to this discussion as to what they can do to protect these children from the traumatic experience of seeing their parent disappear while they are at school one day?
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 11, 2019 17:29:22 GMT
To think that some folks want to debate having a backup plan instead of considering that parents have been ripped away from children and jailed with no access to an attorney. People taken from their lives with nobody defending them, not knowing what happened to the rest of their families.
But some of you are out here like “They should have a plan.”
I don’t know how you sleep at night if you’re asking these kinds of questions. How lucky you are to not even consider this kind of terror.
I’m begging the rest of you not to engage with trolls like this. Just block and move on.
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Post by busy on Aug 11, 2019 17:46:42 GMT
The position is that it doesn't always work and they are not financially stable so why would they bother. I had a different take on that. That wasn't answering my question, which was..... .So I'm asking what plan would you put in place if you were in the same situation as they were? Have you anything to contribute to this discussion as to what they can do to protect these children from the traumatic experience of seeing their parent disappear while they are at school one day? The answer is always, essentially, I would never put myself in that situation so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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