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Post by Merge on Sept 12, 2019 17:57:13 GMT
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Post by peasapie on Sept 12, 2019 18:00:14 GMT
Wow. The Trump group must be very worried, and they should be. He has screwed up quite a few things in a short period of time.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 12, 2019 18:02:06 GMT
so... we should stop subsidizing particular crops, like sugar and corn-- and stop helping fossil fuel and drug companies- stop using public roads and highways, don't count on the fire department coming to your aid ... etc. etc.
--of course using logic on them won't help, because there IS no reasoning with them.
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 12, 2019 18:16:11 GMT
And the people who will be influenced by that couldn't define socialism if their life depended on it.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 12, 2019 18:17:41 GMT
And the people who will be influenced by that couldn't define socialism if their life depended on it. They have just been told that it is bad, so they go with it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:18:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 19:44:23 GMT
Socialize the costs, privatize the profits.
GOP Economics 101
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Post by bc2ca on Sept 12, 2019 19:50:29 GMT
Not just socialists, but radical, left socialist!!!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 12, 2019 21:24:37 GMT
I’m so tired of all this lying and daily attacks. They are unrelenting and getting worse everyday. And ZERO accountability.
I fucking hate them. Wish they would all drop off Earth.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 11:18:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 22:21:47 GMT
IMO this is perfect example of the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot. The Democrats gave the Republicans a gift. A big huge gift.
What people tend to forget is there is a whole other side of the country that one has to offer positions that might appeal to some of them if we hope to win elections and win them big. Which we need to do, win and win big.
A chunk of people don’t like the word “socialism”.
Bernie Sanders is a card carrying socialist who becomes a Democrat when it suits him. He currently is one of the three front runners. Warren acts like a socialist. A lot of the positions being offered by the Democrats sound like socialist programs. It does not matter if technically they are or not, it’s how they are perceived by other Democrats, independents, and some on the right who might be thinking of voting Democrat in 2020.
The majority of the seats picked up by the House Democrats were from moderate districts. AOC’s big win was actually the outlier.
And while the progressive left wing of the party is making a lot of noise, I believe the vast majority of Democrats are moderates. The silent majority.
The frustrating thing is if Sanders or Warren becomes President very few if any of their big plans will come to fruition. There might be a smattering of one or two that actually become law. And this is the scenario even if the Democrats keep the majority and take the majority in the Senate.
Look at the first two years of the Obama Administration when they had the majority in both houses. They just got the ACA passed. One stumbling block were the Blue Dog Democrats.
And look at the first two years of trump with the majority. They just got the tax cut through but couldn’t get the ACA repealed, something the Republicans had run for years. Repealing the ACA.
So Warren and Sanders ,with their grand plans, are jeopardizing the election, an election the Democrats must win if there is any hope in saving this country from itself, for plans that just aren’t going to happen.
And even if the Democratic Nominee is not Sanders or Warren, the other potential nominees will be see as guilty of being a socialist by association.
IMO a perfect example of the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 12, 2019 22:31:20 GMT
The majority of the seats picked up by the House Democrats were from moderate districts. AOC’s big win was actually the outlier. And while the progressive left wing of the party is making a lot of noise, I believe the vast majority of Democrats are moderates. The silent majority. yeah, but the outliers are the ones who get the coverage. I heard someone talking about Biden this morning, and the guy's comment was "you know what's in the middle of the road, right? The only things in the middle of the road are yellow lines and dead armadillos." In this guy's mind, the more progressive candidates are what we (the country) needs to fire up the Democrats, I guess- I don't necessarily agree.
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Post by Merge on Sept 12, 2019 22:46:58 GMT
IMO this is perfect example of the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot. The Democrats gave the Republicans a gift. A big huge gift. What people tend to forget is there is a whole other side of the country that one has to offer positions that might appeal to some of them if we hope to win elections and win them big. Which we need to do, win and win big. A chunk of people don’t like the word “socialism”. Bernie Sanders is a card carrying socialist who becomes a Democrat when it suits him. He currently is one of the three front runners. Warren acts like a socialist. A lot of the positions being offered by the Democrats sound like socialist programs. It does not matter if technically they are or not, it’s how they are perceived by other Democrats, independents, and some on the right who might be thinking of voting Democrat in 2020. The majority of the seats picked up by the House Democrats were from moderate districts. AOC’s big win was actually the outlier. And while the progressive left wing of the party is making a lot of noise, I believe the vast majority of Democrats are moderates. The silent majority. The frustrating thing is if Sanders or Warren becomes President very few if any of their big plans will come to fruition. There might be a smattering of one or two that actually become law. And this is the scenario even if the Democrats keep the majority and take the majority in the Senate. Look at the first two years of the Obama Administration when they had the majority in both houses. They just got the ACA passed. One stumbling block were the Blue Dog Democrats. And look at the first two years of trump with the majority. They just got the tax cut through but couldn’t get the ACA repealed, something the Republicans had run for years. Repealing the ACA. So Warren and Sanders ,with their grand plans, are jeopardizing the election, an election the Democrats must win if there is any hope in saving this country from itself, for plans that just aren’t going to happen. And even if the Democratic Nominee is not Sanders or Warren, the other potential nominees will be see as guilty of being a socialist by association. IMO a perfect example of the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot. The folks who think the Democratic candidates are all socialists don’t know what socialism is. It’s a scare word. The Republicans could call them all child molesters and baby murderers and a significant portion of the population would believe that, too - we saw it in 2016. The whole point is that it does. not. matter. who we run. They’re flying that banner tonight proclaiming ALL of them socialists, when the majority are moderates. A certain percentage of people are going to believe the Democrat is a socialist no matter what. I don’t see how that’s is shooting ourselves in the foot. I think it’s Republicans taking advantage of the ignorance of a large portion of Americans, as they always do.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 11:18:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 23:06:28 GMT
IMO this is perfect example of the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot. The Democrats gave the Republicans a gift. A big huge gift. What people tend to forget is there is a whole other side of the country that one has to offer positions that might appeal to some of them if we hope to win elections and win them big. Which we need to do, win and win big. A chunk of people don’t like the word “socialism”. Bernie Sanders is a card carrying socialist who becomes a Democrat when it suits him. He currently is one of the three front runners. Warren acts like a socialist. A lot of the positions being offered by the Democrats sound like socialist programs. It does not matter if technically they are or not, it’s how they are perceived by other Democrats, independents, and some on the right who might be thinking of voting Democrat in 2020.The majority of the seats picked up by the House Democrats were from moderate districts. AOC’s big win was actually the outlier. And while the progressive left wing of the party is making a lot of noise, I believe the vast majority of Democrats are moderates. The silent majority. The frustrating thing is if Sanders or Warren becomes President very few if any of their big plans will come to fruition. There might be a smattering of one or two that actually become law. And this is the scenario even if the Democrats keep the majority and take the majority in the Senate. Look at the first two years of the Obama Administration when they had the majority in both houses. They just got the ACA passed. One stumbling block were the Blue Dog Democrats. And look at the first two years of trump with the majority. They just got the tax cut through but couldn’t get the ACA repealed, something the Republicans had run for years. Repealing the ACA. So Warren and Sanders ,with their grand plans, are jeopardizing the election, an election the Democrats must win if there is any hope in saving this country from itself, for plans that just aren’t going to happen. And even if the Democratic Nominee is not Sanders or Warren, the other potential nominees will be see as guilty of being a socialist by association. IMO a perfect example of the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot. The folks who think the Democratic candidates are all socialists don’t know what socialism is. It’s a scare word. The Republicans could call them all child molesters and baby murderers and a significant portion of the population would believe that, too - we saw it in 2016. The whole point is that it does. not. matter. who we run. They’re flying that banner tonight proclaiming ALL of them socialists, when the majority are moderates. A certain percentage of people are going to believe the Democrat is a socialist no matter what. I don’t see how that’s is shooting ourselves in the foot. I think it’s Republicans taking advantage of the ignorance of a large portion of Americans, as they always do. Ok. And I don’t disagree. My point is the Democrats should not have gone down this path in the first place because of this very very very predictable outcome. And we didn’t need to do it because Sanders and Warren do not speak for the majority of Democrats. Unfortunately the rest of the candidates are guilty by association to these two. Hence my belief the Democrats, once again, shot themselves in the foot.
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Post by Merge on Sept 12, 2019 23:35:48 GMT
The folks who think the Democratic candidates are all socialists don’t know what socialism is. It’s a scare word. The Republicans could call them all child molesters and baby murderers and a significant portion of the population would believe that, too - we saw it in 2016. The whole point is that it does. not. matter. who we run. They’re flying that banner tonight proclaiming ALL of them socialists, when the majority are moderates. A certain percentage of people are going to believe the Democrat is a socialist no matter what. I don’t see how that’s is shooting ourselves in the foot. I think it’s Republicans taking advantage of the ignorance of a large portion of Americans, as they always do. Ok. And I don’t disagree. My point is the Democrats should not have gone down this path in the first place because of this very very very predictable outcome. And we didn’t need to do it because Sanders and Warren do not speak for the majority of Democrats. Unfortunately the rest of the candidates are guilty by association to these two. Hence my belief the Democrats, once again, shot themselves in the foot. Gone down what path? They can’t force people not to run. All the leaders are polling well against Trump even in Texas, so I’m not sure what your deal is.
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
Posts: 5,641
Jun 26, 2014 14:35:07 GMT
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Post by janeliz on Sept 12, 2019 23:59:31 GMT
Anyone who believes that every Democrat running right now is a socialist or “guilty by association” because they’ve stood on a stage with Bernie Sanders in a debate is either already planning to vote for Trump or looking for an excuse to sit the next election out in indignation.
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Post by annaintx on Sept 13, 2019 0:07:57 GMT
IMO this is perfect example of the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot. The Democrats gave the Republicans a gift. A big huge gift. What people tend to forget is there is a whole other side of the country that one has to offer positions that might appeal to some of them if we hope to win elections and win them big. Which we need to do, win and win big. A chunk of people don’t like the word “socialism”. Bernie Sanders is a card carrying socialist who becomes a Democrat when it suits him. He currently is one of the three front runners. Warren acts like a socialist. A lot of the positions being offered by the Democrats sound like socialist programs. It does not matter if technically they are or not, it’s how they are perceived by other Democrats, independents, and some on the right who might be thinking of voting Democrat in 2020. The majority of the seats picked up by the House Democrats were from moderate districts. AOC’s big win was actually the outlier. And while the progressive left wing of the party is making a lot of noise, I believe the vast majority of Democrats are moderates. The silent majority. The frustrating thing is if Sanders or Warren becomes President very few if any of their big plans will come to fruition. There might be a smattering of one or two that actually become law. And this is the scenario even if the Democrats keep the majority and take the majority in the Senate. Look at the first two years of the Obama Administration when they had the majority in both houses. They just got the ACA passed. One stumbling block were the Blue Dog Democrats. And look at the first two years of trump with the majority. They just got the tax cut through but couldn’t get the ACA repealed, something the Republicans had run for years. Repealing the ACA. So Warren and Sanders ,with their grand plans, are jeopardizing the election, an election the Democrats must win if there is any hope in saving this country from itself, for plans that just aren’t going to happen. And even if the Democratic Nominee is not Sanders or Warren, the other potential nominees will be see as guilty of being a socialist by association. IMO a perfect example of the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot. What is your definition of a socialist, if I may ask? I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that people throw that word around and I'm never quite sure what their definition is.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Sept 13, 2019 0:08:33 GMT
"Socialism" is 2020's "EMAILS" and "BENGHAZI".
Nevermind that even the reddest states engage in some form of "socialism" (i.e. check out what's happening with Alaska's oil fund/checks for residents and how they fund education in Wyoming).
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Post by nlwilkins on Sept 13, 2019 1:23:56 GMT
It does not matter what the definition of socialism is. What matters is it has become a "dirty" word in the Republicans' mouths. Many governments practice some forms of socialism. We pool our resources for armies, police, bridges, roads, and the like. Any service provided that is not owned and operated as a profit making business is probably an example of socialism in the most simplest of forms.
The problem is, many Americans confuse socialism with communism and Nazism. I don't believe we have educated the past few generations about the different forms of government enough for the lessons to stick. While we espouse the love of democracy, we really are not practicing a true democracy in our country. PLUS we have a critically high number of citizens who are not actively participating in our government. In 2019 not even 60% of our citizens eligible to vote turned out to vote.
So now while the Democrat candidates are extolling big plans that are socialist sounding, the average Joe in the streets has been "trained" to see this as evil. They are also unable to see the extreme name calling being used on both sides for what they are. And I totally agree with you that the Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot for these pie in the sky programs that will supposedly fix everything that is wrong. It is not going to happen. These programs are too extreme. They will cost money that the average citizen is not willing to pay. We are not used to sacrificing for a better life. We are used to having it just handed to us.
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Post by refugeepea on Sept 13, 2019 1:35:16 GMT
yeah, but the outliers are the ones who get the coverage. I agree. On a national level, I am beyond pissed at the Republican party.
On a local level, there really are good people who are in office and they are Republican. My son would not have got any help until he entered the public school system and it would have been very limited. A Republican state legislator sponsored a bill to help kids with Autism ages 2-7. She called me personally once it was passed to see if my son was in the program (there was a wait list). When I told her no, she followed up with me a few months later. I have a relative who has served three terms in a county office. I refuse to vote straight Democrat unless they are the people I do think will do the best job. I actually came close to doing this, but the Democratic candidate had a better rating with the NRA than the Republican. Have we learned nothing from people that will only vote straight Republican?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:18:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 2:52:18 GMT
Ok. And I don’t disagree. My point is the Democrats should not have gone down this path in the first place because of this very very very predictable outcome. And we didn’t need to do it because Sanders and Warren do not speak for the majority of Democrats. Unfortunately the rest of the candidates are guilty by association to these two. Hence my belief the Democrats, once again, shot themselves in the foot. Gone down what path? They can’t force people not to run. All the leaders are polling well against Trump even in Texas, so I’m not sure what your deal is. linkYou are correct that one can’t stop someone from running for President. Nor should anyone try. Well unless its a Democratic version of trump.. Then it’s all hands on deck to stop this person. What these two are doing are making promises they can’t keep if elected and in the process are drowning out the more pragmatic candidates that could appeal to a broader group of voters. At one point the Republicans use to say the only reason people voted for Democrats is because they give free stuff to people. When I listen to Warren’s and Sander’s various plans I can’t help but think there may be some truth to that. The path the Party is taking is trying to take The Democratic Socialist Of America mainstream with willing candidates Sanders and Warren leading the way. What is Democratic Socialism? Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives. Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US. Aren’t you a party that’s in competition with the Democratic Party for votes and support?
No, we are not a separate party. Like our friends and allies in the feminist, labor, civil rights, religious, and community organizing movements, many of us have been active in the Democratic Party. We work with those movements to strengthen the party’s left wing, represented by the Congressional Progressive Caucus. The process and structure of American elections seriously hurts third party efforts. Winner-take-all elections instead of proportional representation, rigorous party qualification requirements that vary from state to state, a presidential instead of a parliamentary system, and the two-party monopoly on political power have doomed third party efforts. We hope that at some point in the future, in coalition with our allies, an alternative national party will be viable. For now, we will continue to support progressives who have a real chance at winning elections, which usually means left-wing Democrats.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 11:18:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 3:15:57 GMT
I watched a bit of Amy Klobuchar’s interview with Chris Matthews and wondered if she knew about this place because she pretty much said what I have been trying to say in my posts. That the positions and/or plans should appeal to a broader group of voters rather than just our base. That it’s highly the majority of these plans would come to fruition.
I liked what she called some of the Warren & Sanders ideas. Ivy Tower plans.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 13, 2019 12:34:21 GMT
The ONLY Republican message follows this format;
Fear mongering, Lying, Gerrymandering, More lying, Hatefulness and more division, Epic lying, Cheating in elections, They’re coming for your guns and kill babies, And more lies, Attack democrats Lying. Attack media for printing the truth, More shady lying.
There are NO plans by the republicans to make anything better for the majority of Americans.
Democrats have not gone more far left—it’s the republicans who have go too far trump.
The Republicans are extremists. And dangerous.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 13, 2019 12:50:40 GMT
Ok. And I don’t disagree. My point is the Democrats should not have gone down this path in the first place because of this very very very predictable outcome. And we didn’t need to do it because Sanders and Warren do not speak for the majority of Democrats. Unfortunately the rest of the candidates are guilty by association to these two. Hence my belief the Democrats, once again, shot themselves in the foot. Gone down what path? They can’t force people not to run. All the leaders are polling well against Trump even in Texas, so I’m not sure what your deal is. I agree. It’s wrong to label the “democrats going down the wrong path” when it’s the Republicans controlling that narrative. Stop putting blame on democrats who are trying to better Americans! Too much time is spent on trying to defend against nothing but rhetoric and republican propaganda and talking points. I said this a long time ago and it’s still true—what the Republicans did to get and keep trump was run a very successful disinformation campaign. They’re still doing it because it works. They never let up. They are relentless. It’s tiring. It’s mind boggling. It’s lying. It’s hateful. But it’s successful and driving the bus right now. What most Democrats and probably most of Americans want us for all this division and hateful shit to stop. But it’s not going to stop—it’s going to get worse, because it is absolutely true that it’s easier to win a divided nation, they know that do that’s why they do it. Republicans are not going to stop until the SC is 100% conservative/Republican. They are not going to stop until all social programs are wiped out. They are not going to stop until all school/education, prisons, healthcare, VA care, are turned into privately run profit centers. They are not going to stop until every (non white) immigrant is shown the door and it’s well known that they are not welcome in the USA. Term limits will go away. Democrats, liberals, journalists will be targeted and jailed (trump repeats this daily). We won’t have our allies that we once had. We’ll be cozy with dictators who have been enemies of the USA for decades. the lands and oceans of the USA are going to be raped and pillaged for profit. It will not be good, it’s definitely going to get worse with trump-icans running the country.
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Post by Merge on Sept 13, 2019 12:50:48 GMT
Pretty much sums up my feelings.
And I think overall, the fear about “shooting ourselves in the foot” is based on a fear of who white people won’t vote for.
I think a president should have aspirational ideas. Obama had lots of them. I don’t think any rational person expects that a president is going to get to accomplish every aspirational idea he/she has, but it gives you an idea of what their priorities are. From the “moderates” on that stage I don’t see anything to aspire to. I see a promise of four or eight years of grinding along doing nothing in the name of not appearing to be a scary socialist.
And frankly, if white folks would choose Trump over someone like Warren because they think her aspirational ideas are too far left, we deserve another four years of him. We simply cannot allow our friends and neighbors to be that stupid.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 13, 2019 12:56:51 GMT
And while I can believe that there are “good republicans “ running locally—they won’t stay that way —on a larger scale they will be voting for Republican issues, electoral votes will go towards republican candidates who we all know will vote for trump—it’s happening right now —look at the states who won’t even primary any other Republican but trump. It’s 10% of the states!!!
So right now I think straight Democrat tickets are needed to bring back any resemblance of balance.
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Post by Merge on Sept 13, 2019 13:03:11 GMT
And while I can believe that there are “good republicans “ running locally—they won’t stay that way —on a larger scale they will be voting for Republican issues, electoral votes will go towards republican candidates who we all know will vote for trump—it’s happening right now —look at the states who won’t even primary any other Republican but trump. It’s 10% of the states!!! So right now I think straight Democrat tickets are needed to bring back any resemblance of balance. I will say - my Republican state rep is not a horrible person. She is quite moderate and has been primary targeted (unsuccessfully) by the far right wing of the party here. I don’t have a huge problem with her AND she responds to emails and even tweets. She is pretty popular. Sometimes I wish she’d run for higher office within the state, because if we’re going to be stuck with Republicans, she’d be far better than the current crop at the state level. My state senator, on the other hand, is a disaster. I really hope the Dems can field a good candidate against her next time she is up for re-election.
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Post by hop2 on Sept 13, 2019 13:04:18 GMT
Anyone who believes that every Democrat running right now is a socialist or “guilty by association” because they’ve stood on a stage with Bernie Sanders in a debate is either already planning to vote for Trump or looking for an excuse to sit the next election out in indignation. Maybe Cory confuses him. Cory Booker doesn’t care about being a socialist he wants to be a Social influencer or Socialite or something infamous like that. There is no camera he doesn’t like.
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Post by hop2 on Sept 13, 2019 13:07:33 GMT
Gone down what path? They can’t force people not to run. All the leaders are polling well against Trump even in Texas, so I’m not sure what your deal is. linkYou are correct that one can’t stop someone from running for President. Nor should anyone try. Well unless its a Democratic version of trump.. Then it’s all hands on deck to stop this person. What these two are doing are making promises they can’t keep if elected and in the process are drowning out the more pragmatic candidates that could appeal to a broader group of voters. At one point the Republicans use to say the only reason people voted for Democrats is because they give free stuff to people. When I listen to Warren’s and Sander’s various plans I can’t help but think there may be some truth to that. The path the Party is taking is trying to take The Democratic Socialist Of America mainstream with willing candidates Sanders and Warren leading the way. What is Democratic Socialism? Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives. Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US. Aren’t you a party that’s in competition with the Democratic Party for votes and support?
No, we are not a separate party. Like our friends and allies in the feminist, labor, civil rights, religious, and community organizing movements, many of us have been active in the Democratic Party. We work with those movements to strengthen the party’s left wing, represented by the Congressional Progressive Caucus. The process and structure of American elections seriously hurts third party efforts. Winner-take-all elections instead of proportional representation, rigorous party qualification requirements that vary from state to state, a presidential instead of a parliamentary system, and the two-party monopoly on political power have doomed third party efforts. We hope that at some point in the future, in coalition with our allies, an alternative national party will be viable. For now, we will continue to support progressives who have a real chance at winning elections, which usually means left-wing Democrats. Well beware Phil Murphy in 2024 then he is the democratic version of Trump. ( except he can read and string together better than word salad )
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 13, 2019 15:45:14 GMT
The folks who think the Democratic candidates are all socialists don’t know what socialism is. It’s a scare word. The Republicans could call them all child molesters and baby murderers and a significant portion of the population would believe that, too - we saw it in 2016. The whole point is that it does. not. matter. who we run. They’re flying that banner tonight proclaiming ALL of them socialists, when the majority are moderates. A certain percentage of people are going to believe the Democrat is a socialist no matter what. I don’t see how that’s is shooting ourselves in the foot. I think it’s Republicans taking advantage of the ignorance of a large portion of Americans, as they always do. Wait a little longer and our candidates might be branded Marxists! Lol. It can get confusing for a lot of people. (I'm not directing this paragraph specifically to you but to anyone who may be a bit confused.) What some of the Dems are proposing is not pure socialism. It’s progressivism, which is an offshoot of socialism. Even Sanders’ democratic socialism is not pure; that’s why the word “democratic” has been added. The core principles of the Democratic party – universal healthcare, social safety nets, free public education, equality, workers’ rights, etc. – are progressive, not socialist in the true sense of the word because they exist or are proposed within a market-based capitalist economy. Nobody is proposing gov’t seizure of companies to redistribute wealth. Dems are proposing fairer taxation or wealth tax as a means to ameliorate the widening economic gap and fund programs and reforms. When Biden was initially surging in front of others, I was beginning to think that the majority of Democrats are centrists (like me, very much Clintonesque, left of center). However, as time goes on, Sanders and Warren are upending Biden’s lead which indicates to me that there are more and more progressives in the Democratic electorate who are yearning for radical changes and redefining what it means to be a Liberal. I think that’s how we’ll end up – with three popular candidates, one of whom is decidedly establishment (considered “safe”) and two who are very progressive. I’m not concerned how Independents and Republicans who can’t tolerate Trump perceive the policies these candidates are proposing, whether they perceive them as "socialism" or not. If they cannot tell the difference between a party that wants to provide healthcare insurance to everybody and a party that wants to take it away from people, there’s no helping them. If they cannot tell the difference between a party that wants an egalitarian society that considers the welfare of ALL and a party whose raison d’ etre is the protection of the wealthiest, then no argument about terminology will make a lick of difference.
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Post by Merge on Sept 13, 2019 16:32:59 GMT
The folks who think the Democratic candidates are all socialists don’t know what socialism is. It’s a scare word. The Republicans could call them all child molesters and baby murderers and a significant portion of the population would believe that, too - we saw it in 2016. The whole point is that it does. not. matter. who we run. They’re flying that banner tonight proclaiming ALL of them socialists, when the majority are moderates. A certain percentage of people are going to believe the Democrat is a socialist no matter what. I don’t see how that’s is shooting ourselves in the foot. I think it’s Republicans taking advantage of the ignorance of a large portion of Americans, as they always do. Wait a little longer and our candidates might be branded Marxists! Lol. It can get confusing for a lot of people. (I'm not directing this paragraph specifically to you but to anyone who may be a bit confused.) What some of the Dems are proposing is not pure socialism. It’s progressivism, which is an offshoot of socialism. Even Sanders’ democratic socialism is not pure; that’s why the word “democratic” has been added. The core principles of the Democratic party – universal healthcare, social safety nets, free public education, equality, workers’ rights, etc. – are progressive, not socialist in the true sense of the word because they exist or are proposed within a market-based capitalist economy. Nobody is proposing gov’t seizure of companies to redistribute wealth. Dems are proposing fairer taxation or wealth tax as a means to ameliorate the widening economic gap and fund programs and reforms. When Biden was initially surging in front of others, I was beginning to think that the majority of Democrats are centrists (like me, very much Clintonesque, left of center). However, as time goes on, Sanders and Warren are upending Biden’s lead which indicates to me that there are more and more progressives in the Democratic electorate who are yearning for radical changes and redefining what it means to be a Liberal. I think that’s how we’ll end up – with three popular candidates, one of whom is decidedly establishment (considered “safe”) and two who are very progressive. I’m not concerned how Independents and Republicans who can’t tolerate Trump perceive the policies these candidates are proposing, whether they perceive them as "socialism" or not. If they cannot tell the difference between a party that wants to provide healthcare insurance to everybody and a party that wants to take it away from people, there’s no helping them. If they cannot tell the difference between a party that wants an egalitarian society that considers the welfare of ALL and a party whose raison d’ etre is the protection of the wealthiest, then no argument about terminology will make a lick of difference. A-freaking-men.
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Post by gardengoddess on Sept 13, 2019 18:19:58 GMT
This messaging is another thing that baffles my mind. We already live in a socialistic society in the sense that we have fire departments, police departments, a federal highway system, military healthcare, etc. I'm going to guess that at least 15% of his 30% supporters are probably collecting SS, maybe on Medicaid, probably on Medicare, where one could argue are socialistic programs.
I like the idea that college could be more accessible and affordable (maybe even FREE....gasp!) to our children and future grandchildren. I would never expect them not to have to give back for that in some way, i.e. Americorps, internships, rural programs, etc. AND what so effing bad about paying our citizens a living wage? Why does that strike at conservatives hearts so hard?
Unfortunately, a % of his supporters probably don't even understand what Socialism is and it's difference from a Marxist-Leninist socialist state, which I'm sure will be the messaging of the GOP.
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