muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861 
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Post by muggins on Sept 26, 2019 1:07:59 GMT
So I’ve just moved back to the US and I’m looking at FB marketplace. I was surprised to find some sellers listing home decor items depicting enslaved black people. Things like Salt and pepper shakers in the shape of a cook and a butler, spoon rests, ashtrays, lawn jockeys, etc. All described with cutesy names such as vintage black Americana, Aunt Jemima, Mammy, etc. One seller had a set of figures in grass skirts with grotesque features.
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I messaged all the sellers with a polite and gentle note that perhaps it was time white people stopped profiting from slavery and these items are racist and would be better disposed of or donated to a museum where people can be educated.
Some sellers just blocked me without answering, some flipped out calling me a racist, a Democrat, a disgusting person, etc. Another said disposing of them was asinine since (white) collectors wanted them. Three had black relatives who are fine with them!! One threatened to file a report against me! And another said the figures weren’t in chains therefore they weren’t slaves, another said being offended by the past is my problem not hers! One said she would donate the whole collection of about 30 items to a museum.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 20:06:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 1:19:59 GMT
I have African American friends that actually collect this stuff. There is a market for it.
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Post by papersilly on Sept 26, 2019 1:27:28 GMT
No matter how many times I tell her it's not appropriate, MIL keeps a cast iron lawn jockey on her porch next to the mail box. It's just so wrong.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 20:06:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 2:13:59 GMT
My mother traveled to New Orleans in the early 1940’s for vacation when she was a little girl. There, she was given a set of dolls, a “Mammy” and 2 daughters. They are hand made & their features are hand painted. Their clothing is also handmade. They are truly beautiful pieces of art.
After Mom died, we had a huge estate sale as Mom was a collector of many treasures. I told my sister I was not comfortable putting those dolls in the sale as I didn’t know how people would feel about them. I looked around on eBay & saw there is a market for African American Art, but I just told my sister to hold on to them.
Donating them to a museum had not occurred to me. Does anyone have a suggestion where? They are really pretty dolls. But I would never want to offend anyone. I just don’t know what to do with them.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,493
Location: Colorado
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Post by snyder on Sept 26, 2019 3:16:50 GMT
I'm a bit confused, if they should not be sold and are racist, then why should they be displayed in a museum?
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
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Post by muggins on Sept 26, 2019 3:45:25 GMT
I'm a bit confused, if they should not be sold and are racist, then why should they be displayed in a museum? There are some museums dedicated to African American history. Others have special travelling exhibits on the subject of slavery. These items could be included in these spaces. I’ve also been to a slavery museum in Liverpool, UK which does a great job of examining many aspects of slavery and it’s impact on the economic growth of the city through photos, objects, and interactive exhibits. Sometimes, people don’t see racism until it’s pointed out. Others simply refuse to acknowledge it. |
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,493
Location: Colorado
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Post by snyder on Sept 26, 2019 4:06:41 GMT
I'm a bit confused, if they should not be sold and are racist, then why should they be displayed in a museum? There are some museums dedicated to African American history. Others have special travelling exhibits on the subject of slavery. These items could be included in these spaces. I’ve also been to a slavery museum in Liverpool, UK which does a great job of examining many aspects of slavery and it’s impact on the economic growth of the city through photos, objects, and interactive exhibits. Sometimes, people don’t see racism until it’s pointed out. Others simply refuse to acknowledge it. I understand that, but the way the op put it, they are just out and out wrong, so why include them anywhere. I have differing views, but didn't understand why it was wrong for one to own, but okay to be owned by a museum. Does the organization get exemption? |
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Post by jackietex on Sept 26, 2019 4:07:17 GMT
I have no opinion on the matter, but based on what I've seen on ShopGoodWill.com, there is definitely a strong market, especially for Little Black Sambo items.
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Post by flanz on Sept 26, 2019 4:11:03 GMT
I'd like to thank you, muggins, for taking the time to do this. I'm in full agreement with you. |
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Post by lucyg on Sept 26, 2019 5:11:57 GMT
I'm a bit confused, if they should not be sold and are racist, then why should they be displayed in a museum? Oh, I don’t know. Maybe we shouldn’t have Holocaust museums that display Nazi artifacts, either. Ya think? xx Because items that show our true past, not the made-up, prettified version the “The South Will Rise Again” types would prefer we see, actually do have a place in museums. Whose purpose is to document and educate. As opposed to being displayed on someone’s front lawn, although that does have the advantage of showing the rest of us up front who the neighborhood bigots are. |
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miyooper2b
Full Member
Posts: 334
Location: Central Indiana
Jun 27, 2014 15:38:05 GMT
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Post by miyooper2b on Sept 26, 2019 12:29:34 GMT
I have a couple of Little Black Sambo books that belonged to my grandmother. I don't even like to get them out of the drawer their in. I'll probably end up keeping them until I die and then they will be my daughter's problem.
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luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,070
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Post by luckyexwife on Sept 26, 2019 12:39:48 GMT
There are some museums dedicated to African American history. Others have special travelling exhibits on the subject of slavery. These items could be included in these spaces. I’ve also been to a slavery museum in Liverpool, UK which does a great job of examining many aspects of slavery and it’s impact on the economic growth of the city through photos, objects, and interactive exhibits. Sometimes, people don’t see racism until it’s pointed out. Others simply refuse to acknowledge it. I understand that, but the way the op put it, they are just out and out wrong, so why include them anywhere. I have differing views, but didn't understand why it was wrong for one to own, but okay to be owned by a museum. Does the organization get exemption? The OP said donated to a museum so they can provide education, which would be different than owning the items for decorative purposes. |
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 26, 2019 13:03:29 GMT
No matter how many times I tell her it's not appropriate, MIL keeps a cast iron lawn jockey on her porch next to the mail box. It's just so wrong. Ok. Don’t hit me. Why is this inappropriate? Because I am picturing a smallish figure with black skin dressed up in like riding gear (red shirt, white pants), holding a lantern. Please tell me why this is not as innocent as I am remembering it from my grandmothers house? I always just figured it was a yard statue? Like those weird stone geese that people dress up to match the weather/seasons. |
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Post by workingclassdog on Sept 26, 2019 13:08:07 GMT
No matter how many times I tell her it's not appropriate, MIL keeps a cast iron lawn jockey on her porch next to the mail box. It's just so wrong. Ok. Don’t hit me. Why is this inappropriate? Because I am picturing a smallish figure with black skin dressed up in like riding gear (red shirt, white pants), holding a lantern. Please tell me why this is not as innocent as I am remembering it from my grandmothers house? I always just figured it was a yard statue? Like those weird stone geese that people dress up to match the weather/seasons. Don't hit me either.. I don't know the meaning of a lawn jockey... maybe this is different from what I remember.. is the cast iron figure holding a lantern? I guess I never associated that piece as nothing but a lawn ornament and the fact it is black is because it is the color of the metal. |
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Post by giatocj on Sept 26, 2019 13:11:41 GMT
We see it all the time in antique stores and at flea markets.
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Post by workingclassdog on Sept 26, 2019 13:15:34 GMT
I have a couple of things that is now considered inappropriate. One set of salt/pepper shakers that belonged to my DH grandmother. I innocently kept those thinking someone might collect that kind of thing. But they sit somewhere in my house packed up.
I have a postcard that I have had FOREVER.. I used to collect postcards and different family members would send them to me on their travels.. I guess I was 7th or 8th grade. But somehow I was given a bunch of vintage postcards... one is definitely inappropriate now but back then I was thinking this one could be worth a lot of money and just stashed it away. I never gave any thought to the subject matter and it being wrong (I can't remember what the little saying on the card was..but it was probably some southern drawl meant to be slang from back when).. that is stashed somewhere as well.
At some point I thought that I would sell them... but now.. I don't think so. I would like both items in the hands of someone or museum that would use those to educate people on how wrong these type items are.
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Post by lucyg on Sept 26, 2019 13:34:19 GMT
I'm a bit confused, if they should not be sold and are racist, then why should they be displayed in a museum? Oh, I don’t know. Maybe we shouldn’t have Holocaust museums that display Nazi artifacts, either. Ya think? xx Because items that show our true past, not the made-up, prettified version the “The South Will Rise Again” types would prefer we see, actually do have a place in museums. Whose purpose is to document and educate. As opposed to being displayed on someone’s front lawn, although that does have the advantage of showing the rest of us up front who the neighborhood bigots are. Quoting myself to say, I really shouldn’t post on controversial topics late at night. I stand by the sentiment, but my tone could have been a lot nicer. I’m sorry, snyder. |
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
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Post by schizo319 on Sept 26, 2019 14:03:29 GMT
Ok. Don’t hit me. Why is this inappropriate? Because I am picturing a smallish figure with black skin dressed up in like riding gear (red shirt, white pants), holding a lantern. Please tell me why this is not as innocent as I am remembering it from my grandmothers house? I always just figured it was a yard statue? Like those weird stone geese that people dress up to match the weather/seasons. It appears that it depends on the jockey in question - if you see the "Jocko" type, it'll be VERY evident why it is racist. From wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know): "The earlier "jocko" design usually depicts the right arm raised, and was styled as a cartoonish young black boy, often with exaggerated features, such as big eyes with the whites painted in; large lips painted red; a large, flat nose and curly hair. Typically, these pieces were painted in gaudy colors for the uniform as with racing colors, with the flesh of the statue a gloss black. As of the 20th century, these statues have been considered racist and many remaining samples have now been repainted, using pink paint for the skin while the original sculpture's exaggerated features remain." |
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,147
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Post by used2scrap on Sept 26, 2019 14:18:10 GMT
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Post by papersilly on Sept 26, 2019 14:25:15 GMT
Ok. Don’t hit me. Why is this inappropriate? Because I am picturing a smallish figure with black skin dressed up in like riding gear (red shirt, white pants), holding a lantern. Please tell me why this is not as innocent as I am remembering it from my grandmothers house? I always just figured it was a yard statue? Like those weird stone geese that people dress up to match the weather/seasons. It appears that it depends on the jockey in question - if you see the "Jocko" type, it'll be VERY evident why it is racist. From wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know): "The earlier "jocko" design usually depicts the right arm raised, and was styled as a cartoonish young black boy, often with exaggerated features, such as big eyes with the whites painted in; large lips painted red; a large, flat nose and curly hair. Typically, these pieces were painted in gaudy colors for the uniform as with racing colors, with the flesh of the statue a gloss black. As of the 20th century, these statues have been considered racist and many remaining samples have now been repainted, using pink paint for the skin while the original sculpture's exaggerated features remain." The Jocko is exactly the kind she has!! It is the youngish boy with large white eyes, large red lips, and curly hair. His face is painted black, not pink. His uniform is yellow. MILs statue is definitely not the tall, slender statue that I've seen many times before. |
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Post by PenandInk on Sept 26, 2019 14:52:30 GMT
This was a really interesting read. Too bad the stories attached to the statues are probably fake. |
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Post by hockeyfan06 on Sept 26, 2019 15:39:37 GMT
It appears that it depends on the jockey in question - if you see the "Jocko" type, it'll be VERY evident why it is racist. From wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know): "The earlier "jocko" design usually depicts the right arm raised, and was styled as a cartoonish young black boy, often with exaggerated features, such as big eyes with the whites painted in; large lips painted red; a large, flat nose and curly hair. Typically, these pieces were painted in gaudy colors for the uniform as with racing colors, with the flesh of the statue a gloss black. As of the 20th century, these statues have been considered racist and many remaining samples have now been repainted, using pink paint for the skin while the original sculpture's exaggerated features remain." The Jocko is exactly the kind she has!! It is the youngish boy with large white eyes, large red lips, and curly hair. His face is painted black, not pink. His uniform is yellow. MILs statue is definitely not the tall, slender statue that I've seen many times before. My sister-in-law's parents had this same Jocko statue in a white bread older demographic neighborhood in a Northern Canadian city. It was stolen the first time. They bought another one and this time they chained it to the lamp post in the middle of their lawn so it wouldn't get taken again.  Within the first few days they received a bunch of letters in the mailbox calling them evil and racists etc., So then they painted him white! This didn't help one bit. Someone came with bolt cutters and took away everything, left a note and threatened them if they put out a new one, something bad would happen to them. This happened in the mid 1990s. I was surprised at the time but not as I knew it wasn't right to have that lawn ornament. |
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 26, 2019 15:47:40 GMT
Ok. Don’t hit me. Why is this inappropriate? Because I am picturing a smallish figure with black skin dressed up in like riding gear (red shirt, white pants), holding a lantern. Please tell me why this is not as innocent as I am remembering it from my grandmothers house? I always just figured it was a yard statue? Like those weird stone geese that people dress up to match the weather/seasons. It appears that it depends on the jockey in question - if you see the "Jocko" type, it'll be VERY evident why it is racist. From wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know): "The earlier "jocko" design usually depicts the right arm raised, and was styled as a cartoonish young black boy, often with exaggerated features, such as big eyes with the whites painted in; large lips painted red; a large, flat nose and curly hair. Typically, these pieces were painted in gaudy colors for the uniform as with racing colors, with the flesh of the statue a gloss black. As of the 20th century, these statues have been considered racist and many remaining samples have now been repainted, using pink paint for the skin while the original sculpture's exaggerated features remain." Thank you! The one I am thinking of was just a boy. No exaggerated features, or features that I would associate with cartoonish depictions of African Americans. So I’m going to go with my grandparents not having a racist depiction of people in their yard. 😊 |
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 26, 2019 15:48:36 GMT
Theirs definitely didn’t look like that! 😧 |
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
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Post by muggins on Sept 26, 2019 16:22:52 GMT
We see it all the time in antique stores and at flea markets. I once got escorted out of a flea market in the UK for telling a seller the golliwog items were racist. The security guard was black and we had a quick conversation about it. He found them offensive and demeaning, but didn’t want to be reprimanded by speaking out. My DD’s friend is from Zimbabwe. She explained to the white male owner of an antique shop that selling golliwogs was offensive and derogatory. He told her that they weren’t and she should get over it. I find it very hard to believe that black people collect these items. |
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,493
Location: Colorado
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Post by snyder on Sept 26, 2019 16:24:43 GMT
Oh, I don’t know. Maybe we shouldn’t have Holocaust museums that display Nazi artifacts, either. Ya think? xx Because items that show our true past, not the made-up, prettified version the “The South Will Rise Again” types would prefer we see, actually do have a place in museums. Whose purpose is to document and educate. As opposed to being displayed on someone’s front lawn, although that does have the advantage of showing the rest of us up front who the neighborhood bigots are. Quoting myself to say, I really shouldn’t post on controversial topics late at night. I stand by the sentiment, but my tone could have been a lot nicer. I’m sorry, snyder . lol No problem. I didn't take any offense to your reply. I read it as if it were your sentiments and we all have our opinions whether right or wrong and I respect that of people. |
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Post by hop2 on Sept 26, 2019 16:35:28 GMT
The Jocko is exactly the kind she has!! It is the youngish boy with large white eyes, large red lips, and curly hair. His face is painted black, not pink. His uniform is yellow. MILs statue is definitely not the tall, slender statue that I've seen many times before. My sister-in-law's parents had this same Jocko statue in a white bread older demographic neighborhood in a Northern Canadian city. It was stolen the first time. They bought another one and this time they chained it to the lamp post in the middle of their lawn so it wouldn't get taken again. Within the first few days they received a bunch of letters in the mailbox calling them evil and racists etc., So then they painted him white! This didn't help one bit. Someone came with bolt cutters and took away everything, left a note and threatened them if they put out a new one, something bad would happen to them. This happened in the mid 1990s. I was surprised at the time but not as I knew it wasn't right to have that lawn ornament. Chains?!? OMG talk about making it worse. |
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,147
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Post by used2scrap on Sept 26, 2019 16:55:42 GMT
There are some museums dedicated to African American history. Others have special travelling exhibits on the subject of slavery. These items could be included in these spaces. I’ve also been to a slavery museum in Liverpool, UK which does a great job of examining many aspects of slavery and it’s impact on the economic growth of the city through photos, objects, and interactive exhibits. Sometimes, people don’t see racism until it’s pointed out. Others simply refuse to acknowledge it. I understand that, but the way the op put it, they are just out and out wrong, so why include them anywhere. I have differing views, but didn't understand why it was wrong for one to own, but okay to be owned by a museum. Does the organization get exemption? A very good read about a Jim Crow museum and why it matters. www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/collect.htm |
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Post by papersilly on Sept 26, 2019 17:02:58 GMT
It appears that it depends on the jockey in question - if you see the "Jocko" type, it'll be VERY evident why it is racist. From wikipedia (yeah, yeah, I know): "The earlier "jocko" design usually depicts the right arm raised, and was styled as a cartoonish young black boy, often with exaggerated features, such as big eyes with the whites painted in; large lips painted red; a large, flat nose and curly hair. Typically, these pieces were painted in gaudy colors for the uniform as with racing colors, with the flesh of the statue a gloss black. As of the 20th century, these statues have been considered racist and many remaining samples have now been repainted, using pink paint for the skin while the original sculpture's exaggerated features remain." Thank you! The one I am thinking of was just a boy. No exaggerated features, or features that I would associate with cartoonish depictions of African Americans. So I’m going to go with my grandparents not having a racist depiction of people in their yard. 😊 i was telling DH about this thread and he remembered that MIL had that other style lawn jockey in her backyard. the lamp was no longer attached but it was a jockey for sure. the face was painted white and none of the features were exaggerated. it just looked like a white jockey man holding a lantern (except all that was left was the lantern ring). the one in the front yard is offensive because the head and facial features are so very exaggerated. there is no doubt what the statue is. |
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Post by gillyp on Sept 26, 2019 17:20:40 GMT
We see it all the time in antique stores and at flea markets. I once got escorted out of a flea market in the UK for telling a seller the golliwog items were racist. The security guard was black and we had a quick conversation about it. He found them offensive and demeaning, but didn’t want to be reprimanded by speaking out. My DD’s friend is from Zimbabwe. She explained to the white male owner of an antique shop that selling golliwogs was offensive and derogatory. He told her that they weren’t and she should get over it. I find it very hard to believe that black people collect these items. Well done muggins. My husband and I would have done the same thing. I have a big problem trying to get acquaintances to understand why the depiction you mentioned is so demeaning and racist. The usual response is that they are just toys and they had them as children. We have a annual parade here and a number of years ago 3 teenagers were reported to the police for dressing as these characters. It's a crime to incite racial hatred in the UK and dressing like this falls under that banner. I was not the one who reported them, the first I knew of it was when I saw the photos in the paper. I doubt the children understood what the problem was but I would have expected at least some of the organisers to have refused to let them take part. However, most of the town felt there was no problem and I have since had a number of heated discussions with people trying to get them to understand. I am definitely in the minority and that is one of the things that helps me to understand just how much latent racism there is in this country. It really saddens me. I have never heard of lawn jockeys before. |
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