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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 16, 2021 2:11:06 GMT
There is some not great and some very (very bad) bad advice on this thread. Your boss needs to consult with a labor employment attorney. Don’t even bother drafting a policy until then. I have twenty years in HR and the last five years in HR at a big law firm in a big city with a big reputation. There is some VERY bad advice on this thread. Tread carefully. Another HR person here (not American of course, but I've worked for FTSE100 and Dow Jones companies), and I agree there's some very dodgy advice on this thread. OP, why is your boss discussing your colleague's medical history with you anyway? S/he could have asked you to draft a policy without sharing specifics with you. The boss is not discussing any employees medical history with me. In fact I don’t believe boss has even asked anything of the employees medical history. We do not have an HR dept. I’m often rapped tor consult/advice because if my experience and qualification/knowledge. I’ll write a draft, then it will go to a lawyer. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 16, 2021 2:07:14 GMT
Does your place of employment require customers to be vaccinated? If not, I don't understand how you mandate employees. I brought this up too, as a reason that the one employee might use. We do require masks. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 15, 2021 1:36:36 GMT
I’m starting to do my end of summer closet clean out yo see what I currently have tor fall.
Since I’m not solely remote anymore, this might warrant a little splurge on a few wardrobe pieces! 😅😅
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 15, 2021 1:34:48 GMT
The boss can always give her a choice of either getting vaccinated or getting a test every single day before she starts her shift, at her cost if there is one and she can wear a KN95 mask. I suggested weekly negative Covid testing results, daily, start of shift temperature readings, and masks for everyone, and n95 for those who remain unvaccinated. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 15, 2021 1:33:32 GMT
Your boss should consult an employment attorney rather than relying on anyone’s opinion. It’s a tricky situation now with covid. Once we write the “policy” a lawyer will review it. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 15, 2021 1:32:41 GMT
I think writing a policy that puts the responsibility on the non-vaccinated to get weekly negative testing will make sure that it’s not my boss firing, but allowing everyone to make their own choice.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 20:24:38 GMT
Opposite problem for me. I am one of only three people at my job who are vaccinated. Every one else has made it political and have refused. Do I have any recourse other than just masking myself? Employers can make accommodations for people, who are either side of the vaccine, One if my siblings left their employer of 18 years because they wouldn’t keep all employees safe. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 19:26:54 GMT
If they implement a "must be vaccinated"... and she makes the choice not to and quits... then boss n company is not responsible... she quit.. thats all on her... Im not a boss or leader of any sort in my job but im not great with ultimatums.... i think play with fire.... get burned.. better her now, than she carries it is and 1 of you carries it home to a child or grandchild or a vulnerable older person.... Shes making the choice... This is what I’ve advised so far. A company Covid policy, put the onus on employees refusing vaccine to get and provide negative Covid tests. I’m hashing out writing the rough draft now, I have a meeting with bosses Monday at 9! |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 19:22:47 GMT
What a charming shut down…I can see why your boss is pissed off. I work retail….and we have five hold outs at last count. It’s crazy to me. We process 400 transactions daily. That’s 400 people we are exposed to every day, and that’s just the people who buy something. The actual customer count is higher. Baffling. Yes, boss was pissed at the response for sure…especially as it comes a few days after another employee leaving to head back to college, who had a bad habit of telling everyone what she was going to do vs what boss/manager wanted (she had always been used getting her way and never being told “no” until she worked for boss) she wanted someone to pick up her paycheck instead of having it mailed (she was out of town) to which bosses said they’d mail it yo her and she went apeshit and was telling boss what boss was going yo do and that someone was coming in at noon to get it! (He told her nope it wasn’t happening) boss doesn’t like to be told how his business is going to operate! But that’s a whole other thread!! Lol The business is part retail, and employees come in contact with others daily, (I’m the only non-retail employee there) and bosses entire premise is just to keep everyone healthy. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 18:52:42 GMT
Does she want to get fired? I assume she could collect unemployment if she’s worked long enough and her attitude suggests she’s not all that loyal. (Not getting vaccinated is one thing but she should be helping to come up with alternatives in that situation not just basically daring them to fire her) I don't think you can collect unemployment if you have been fired. Maybe this doesn't apply to all states but in Michigan it used to be if you were fired it was your decision so no unemployment. Here you cannot collect if you quit. If you’re fired, you can collect—the employer has the opportunity to deny it and if the employees have done something like steal, fraud, espionage then the claim is denied. If you quit, they do t allow that as reason until they can prove it was a hostile work environment. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 18:05:34 GMT
Yes, the job she does requires her to be in house. The thing here is she’s telling bosses that if required to work she’s not getting the vaccine, so she is the one giving them an ultimatum! (Which pisses bosses off even more than refusing!) Bosses just texted me this all this morning, so I’m telling them to breathe, think, not make a snap decision… Does she want to get fired? I assume she could collect unemployment if she’s worked long enough and her attitude suggests she’s not all that loyal. (Not getting vaccinated is one thing but she should be helping to come up with alternatives in that situation not just basically daring them to fire her) From what their text convo was (she messaged boss to say she wasn’t vaccinated) Bosses response was well you’ll need to start that process. She said start what process. Boss said the vaccine process. Her response was if you’re saying I have to be vaccinated in order to work here—I won’t be getting vaccinated. Bosses response after a (30 minute pause) was “may I ask why you are not getting vaccinated” To which her response was “my choice” |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 18:02:15 GMT
I changed my response in regards to terminology.. “Right to work” is only applied to unionized work, which we are not union employees We are an “at will state” which means employers need no reason or cause to fire someone. I was just on confused.  I feel like I'm losing my mind with every piece of information I read on the internet. There's too much fake news everywhere. lol  I look back at past conversations I've had with others and I don't think the labels define it clearly enough. I’m glad you caught that! I do strive to be accurate! Lol |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 18:01:30 GMT
I changed my response in regards to terminology..a feee we lists up I did state “at will” I went in and clarified my response to jeremysgirl. (Thanks for pointing this out!!) “Right to work” is only applied to unionized work, which we are not union employees We are an “at will state” which means employers need no reason or cause to fire someone. Honestly? Just fire her. Though I think we also need to make it so these fools who get fired for refusing the vaccine can't receive benefits. Let 'em try to live on whatever savings they have. I'm serious... I've about had enough of this. If they end up homeless, too bad. Choices have consequences. Boss and I had this same convo… Trust me we too often feel this way. I have a sweet dear friend who is a respiratory nurse (she has spent the last 1-1/2 years intubating Covid people and she’s so angry at those who refuse a safe vaccine. I hurt for her and all she (medical professionals go through having to deal with those ignorant dumb ass anti vaxxers. Their refusal outs such s burden of medical professionals. I do think that unless it is a provable medical reason for not getting one, those who refuse to get the vaccine should have to be opted out of their medical insurance ….because all of our rates are going to go up because of this. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:44:40 GMT
Ohio isn't right to work. I changed my response in regards to terminology..a feee we lists up I did state “at will” I went in and clarified my response to jeremysgirl. (Thanks for pointing this out!!) “Right to work” is only applied to unionized work, which we are not union employees We are an “at will state” which means employers need no reason or cause to fire someone. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:41:46 GMT
I’m so thankful my entire office got the vaccine. We didn’t have any holdouts. I know my friend’s employer has two employees who will not get the vaccine. He is not choosing to fire them over it at this time. But he is requiring that they wear a mask at all times and get a weekly Covid test, on Sundays before being allowed to work the week, on their dime. Love the idea of requiring a negative Covid test. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:36:25 GMT
Are you saying that it wouldn’t work to make her work remotely? Because that would be one solution. Firing her if she refuses to get vaccinated is also a good idea. Making her wear N95 masks plus weekly testing is another option. I like all 3. Personally, I would give her an ultimatum and fire her if she refuses. BUT it might be hard to replace her right now, so the other two options could work better. Yes, the job she does requires her to be in house. The thing here is she’s telling bosses that if required to work she’s not getting the vaccine, so she is the one giving them an ultimatum! (Which pisses bosses off even more than refusing!) Bosses just texted me this all this morning, so I’m telling them to breathe, think, not make a snap decision… |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:32:43 GMT
Is Ohio (that's where you are right?) A right to work state? If so, they have the right to fire you without any cause whatsoever. Having worked in Ohio, yes they are. Is there a vaccine requirement at your job? If not then the boss could (probably should) create one. Regardless he could fire her for any reason if he wanted to. Personally I think it’s too soon for vaccine requirements (pre full FDA approval, at least) but I don’t think it’d be unreasonable for the boss to require N95 masks for unvaxxed employees. Correct on state. Bosses are looking into making it a requirement watching closely how that’s panning out in other companies—for example at least 2 of the major medical/hospitals here now require it or employees lose their job. We are a small, under 20 employee private business. I’ll mention to them having her wear a N95 until we sort this out. (She’s wearing a cloth mask now). |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:28:37 GMT
Is Ohio (that's where you are right?) A right to work state? If so, they have the right to fire you without any cause whatsoever. EDITED: “at will” state with the meaning you supplied. And in this case, if bosses do require it, she’d quit. “Right to work” applied only to unionized work, which Ohio is not. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:27:46 GMT
I was told by a very prominent employment lawyer that if a business wants to get rid of someone they will find a way. That is the boss’ only option. He/she may have to pay some severence pay but they can get rid of her for a reason. We are in at “at will state” and do not need cause to let someone go. However, bosses are paying close attention to any legalities involved. They’re just trying to figure out a path to tread. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:10:43 GMT
Didn’t want to hijack the anti ax thread…
So…here’s a dilemma/situation or question…
Everyone at work, except one person, is vaccinated.
Our boss asked our vaccination status this week, because we are in a now red alert county, 2 of our workers are immune compromised (but we’re vaccinated) and mask mandates are being discussed at city levels, and boss requires us to all wear masks unless in our own individual space, and Monday we are going back to masks, and requiring all clients to wear a mask upon entry.
So this one person, a 20 year old, stated that she won’t get the vaccine. She’s an awesome worker, and I know she’s said that if boss says she has to get it in order to work—she’s not getting it. Any the reasoning she’s given is it’s her choice,
A few employees are uncomfortable about working with/around her now. And it’s impossible for what we do/she goes to work remotely or segregated from everyone else all day, plus we deal with customers.
What are your thoughts on this?
What do you think our boss’s options are?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 16:54:51 GMT
My antivaxer neighbor neighbor asked for Facebook prayers yesterday for her very sick covid positive daughter. Then followed with ugly posts about how stupid those who get vaccinated are. Complete idiots. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 10:09:56 GMT
What was the reason he police were there if they weren't going to do anything? Wasn't their job to assist in keeping order? Someone was assaulted and they did nothing? Fucking useless cops. At last months meeting the other group banged on the doors or the board room, tried to get in, ripped down posters, and made threats. We think they didn't do much other than remove people to keep the peace and meeting going. As well as everyone I side safe. These people are nuts and our safety was at stake. So I’m wondering so much for peaceful protest. These cult trumpers, anti vaxxers are all about violence, threats, bullying—just to get their way. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 9:59:50 GMT
I read the premise and layout of this show after reading all the pea live about it, and it has a very similar premise storyline to the movie Major League!
In Major League, a bitter, “bitchy” wife (I think deceased husband) takes over the Cleveland Indians baseball team, hires a “has been” to help tank the team so she can move what’s left of the team to Miami where she can be a socialite. Players are similar to the roles described on Ted Lasso!
I’ll have to give this a watch—I didn’t see any episodes only because I really do not like Jason Sudakis!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 9:46:43 GMT
If something happens or there’s a shift in work at work, we as a team will assure one another that “we’ve got this!”.
I’ve never heard that’s it’s a negative thing or toxic!
ETA: I don’t think I’d ever use it to say it to someone going through a health issue! I cannot imagine telling a person who has cancer, an illness, or depression “you’ve got this”! 😳
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 9:44:38 GMT
A gift card for his trip, coffee shop or food.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 9:43:03 GMT
I had to fast forward through some of it, but as long as I live I will never understand how that stupid, incompetent, lying piece of shit managed to get enough people to vote for him to be president. This will always be the lowest point in your political history. I'm also so grateful that I don't need to look at his face or hear him speak too often any more. I could feel my anger & anxiety rising as I watched that. A lot of people were voting against Hillary, not for Trump. If Hillary had been on the ballot again, he may have very well been re-elected. While that may have been true then, it’s certainly not much if a factor now—his supporters are rolling on anti-LBGTQ, fill on Christian religion for all, white people are oppressed, immigrants bad. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 9:40:58 GMT
Is it that "say it often enough and they'll believe it" philosophy in action.....or is it just plain insanity? When I watched it it energized my fighting spirit. We have a fight that we can NOT give up on. Keeping these people out of our government is an arduous fight. The “charm” of a snake oil salesman. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 9:31:29 GMT
Total bill.
And while we always have tipped at a minimum 20% , since Covid struggles for service industry we tip a lot more on our bills.
It’s not uncommon for us to get coffee at our local place (not a chain) and our bill be $10, and we given them $20 total or have a dinner bill be $60-70 and we give $100.
One or twice a year at one of our favorite breakfast places, we even tip all the kitchen staff $10 each (7 workers)
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 13, 2021 1:45:36 GMT
stittsygirl Eeesh, get rid of photos? What a tough decision! On one hand, you want to respect their wishes; on the other, you should be able to have photos of your child as they grew up. I think I would have made the same decision and I’m glad they understand now. Thanks for the FB referral! jeremysgirl and anyone else please hijack away! Seriously, the more y’all share the more we can learn from you. And this is such an important thing to get right, ya know? I hate for your daughter, you and the rest of your family that it came to that, and it makes me sad that it’s so common. I so hope she is doing better now. eta: She’s 18 so it took a little while to get used to the name and pronoun switch, but not nearly as long as I expected…though I occasionally slip (not in her presence because I’m not in anyone’s presence these days!). DH switched almost immediately and has been great at pointing out when I slip. We have purposefully been over using her chosen name at home so that when we get to spend time with her it is automatic and natural. I’ve actually found that the hardest thing to switch has been the term ‘your boys” or ‘the boys’ when talking to my friend. Re: photos. It’s a reminder to the person transitioning of a person they never were. I participate in a group (I’m an ally) and listen to so many stories of those who have/are transitioning seeing photos of themselves before physically changing, that they feels as though they are looking at a stranger. It’s not them and they do not see them as “memories” to many it’s a reminder of a life of struggles, angst, depression… My relative HATES (to the point of anger/tears/trauma) to see photos of himself before (as a girl) absolutely hates it. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 13, 2021 1:38:40 GMT
The son (biological) of a friend of mine told her she is transitioning to a woman and they are interested in counseling to help her out. Can you offer some guidance as to how to find someone who specializes in this? Both individually for her daughter and also the family so they know how to best support her, and for any support they might need? I understand from reading here and what I’ve seen of my friend that it is a difficult time for parents as well. And could you also please share if you’ve found an online community that was helpful to you? And a stupid question for myself. When referring to her (now) daughter in the past tense before she made this decision, do I use the pronoun she was living as at the point/time of the discussion’s subject/event, or basically grandfather-in her new pronoun? In other words, if I was talking about her birth would I use her or him? Right now I am using she, but I really want to get this right. Current pronoun unless they tell you something different. |
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I feel like I'm losing my mind with every piece of information I read on the internet. There's too much fake news everywhere. lol 
I look back at past conversations I've had with others and I don't think the labels define it clearly enough. 
