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Post by anneinwa on Dec 17, 2019 0:07:23 GMT
I will start by saying that he is no longer employed and wasn't when this started. Is it legal for an employee to have taken photos of work they did while employed and use it to advertise for their own business?
They were only responsible for some of the work, not the planning, design, permitting, or ordering of materials. In fact, one of the projects being shown, he had nothing to do with aside from cleanup.
I have no problem contacting someone official if it is state specific, just figured I'd ask here if case anyone else has dealt with this.
Thank you.
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Post by Lexica on Dec 17, 2019 0:09:40 GMT
Is he claiming the items in the photo as his sole work product?
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Post by elaine on Dec 17, 2019 0:16:01 GMT
I’d need a lot more information to form an opinion. Can you link the website/advertisement in question?
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Post by anneinwa on Dec 17, 2019 0:20:59 GMT
Is he claiming the items in the photo as his sole work product? Does not appear to be anything stating it was done when he was employed by anyone else that I can see. |
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Post by anneinwa on Dec 17, 2019 0:21:54 GMT
I’d need a lot more information to form an opinion. Can you link the website/advertisement in question? In case others are interested in this, I am not comfortable at this time sharing this. |
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Post by elaine on Dec 17, 2019 0:30:05 GMT
I responded privately, but if you can’t share more concrete info here, the best advice I can give is to seek out a lawyer and budget to cover legal fees, because win or lose, you still will have to pay the lawyers’ fees.
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Post by katlaw on Dec 17, 2019 0:37:03 GMT
If you (or your employer) are responsible for the work he is claiming as his own I would send a letter by registered mail informing him that you (your company) take credit for the projects he is using in his advertising. I would inform him that you would like the material taken down immediately and that he is not to use that work claiming it as his own.
Take screen shots of the projects in question. Keep a copy of the letter. And see what happens. He may just take it down without you having to go any further than that.
He does not have the right to claim the work as his own and I would certainly inform him of that.
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Post by anneinwa on Dec 17, 2019 0:43:10 GMT
If you (or your employer) are responsible for the work he is claiming as his own I would send a letter by registered mail informing him that you (your company) take credit for the projects he is using in his advertising. I would inform him that you would like the material taken down immediately and that he is not to use that work claiming it as his own. Take screen shots of the projects in question. Keep a copy of the letter. And see what happens. He may just take it down without you having to go any further than that. He does not have the right to claim the work as his own and I would certainly inform him of that. I like this idea. Upon looking closer, he is claiming credit for at least two projects from beginning to end. |
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Post by lisacharlotte on Dec 17, 2019 1:00:20 GMT
I think a cease and desist letter should do the trick. He's NOT going to want to pay legal fees for a defense.
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Post by busy on Dec 17, 2019 1:23:06 GMT
Yeah, I'd have your attorney draft a letter. You probably won't have to pursue the issue beyond that.
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Post by MissBianca on Dec 17, 2019 4:02:12 GMT
Most companies have an intellectual property clause in their contracts. My suspicion is that this would fall under that category.
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Post by anneinwa on Dec 17, 2019 7:02:57 GMT
No contract but I will talk to lawyer about cease and desist letter.
Thank you for the suggestions!
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Post by manda on Dec 17, 2019 7:55:48 GMT
Depends on whether you had him sign something stating work done while employed is property of employer. If not, it could be moot.
Though a cease and desist may scare him, it may not hold up in an actual court of law.
Either way, hire an employment law attorney to draft appropriate documents and acknowledgements for new employees to sign at hire so you can avoid this in the future.
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Post by hop2 on Dec 17, 2019 12:04:24 GMT
Touchy subject.
It doesn’t sound this way by the few details in the OP but since you used the word *permit* without explaining why, I explain that if a licensed professional worked on a project enough to attach their license to it then the work is theirs as well as the firms since their license is on the hook if something went wrong.
For example if an engineer works for ABC company and seals the drawing for a project then they are the ‘engineer of record’ for that project and you can’t ‘erase’ them from it or tell them to stop saying it’s theirs because it became at least partially theirs when they affixed their license to it ( by nature of assuming a portion of the legal responsibility ) wether or not ‘your firm’ had the contract the licensed individual who affixed their stamp/seal/ or license number to the project it then becomes their work out of necessity because they are responsible for it.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by AnotherPea on Dec 17, 2019 12:14:49 GMT
I agree with others- you’re going to need a lawyer to figure this out. Sounds like a small business. Chances are a letter from a lawyer might scare him enough, even if the law isn’t really clear. I wouldn’t be comfortable with that level of intimidation though.
I’m picturing a carpenter that built/restored a piece of furniture and has now branched out on his own. I can’t see any issue with a scenario similar to that.
What actual harm is this causing you, OP?
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pancakes
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by pancakes on Dec 17, 2019 12:44:38 GMT
This definitely falls into an IP issue, and it would depend on the contract the individual signed originally with your company.
For example, if a graphic designer added some items to their portfolio, but it didn’t specify ownership in their original contract, I’d say it’s fair game. It could be another story if they tried to reprint/recreate the item and sell it for a profit. But to feature in a portfolio is pretty common ground. I imagine it would be similar for some other trades/industries.
Also, you might be surprised by how many people stretch the truth during an interview. If you didn’t do something end to end, a lot of people still say they do or that they led the project. It not only sounds like a stronger story but it’s also sometimes difficult/awkward to parse out all the individual contributions to a project. I’m not saying lying is great, but it is incredibly common in recruiting.
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Post by hop2 on Dec 17, 2019 13:22:59 GMT
This definitely falls into an IP issue, and it would depend on the contract the individual signed originally with your company. For example, if a graphic designer added some items to their portfolio, but it didn’t specify ownership in their original contract, I’d say it’s fair game. It could be another story if they tried to reprint/recreate the item and sell it for a profit. But to feature in a portfolio is pretty common ground. I imagine it would be similar for some other trades/industries. And most ‘portfolios’ are active websites these days. So might be seen as advertising. The use of the word ‘permitting’ in the OP had me sort of thrown. That definitely requires further details. Most permits are obtained using a professional or tradesperson license and no matter how little work the licensee did in the project if their license or license number was used to obtain a permit then they are the architect/engineer/surveyor/contractor/plumber/electrician etc of record and as such they have certain legal responsibility for the project and in turn can claim it as ‘theirs’ On the other hand, if they are just an employee of said licensed person or firm then and their own license was not used in any way, then no, they have very little claim to the project if any. Like A draftsperson ( like the pea said above ) could use the drawings they did in their portfolio but not in other formats. |
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Post by anneinwa on Dec 17, 2019 15:21:15 GMT
Interesting discussion to wake up to! Have to get up and run, but I’ll try to hit some of the points
Best way I can describe at this time is he was just an employee, working off of our license and insurance. For example, a project might be a shed, where the company did all the leg work. Working with the customer, design, permits to build, ordering of materials, and supervision/correction of employee while he helped build it. He might have helped on some jobs, or had closer to 100% of the labor. Photos from said job are now being used as a ‘beginning to end’ job example for his business.
How does this hurt us? And I apologize for the vagueness. This is the small end of a much larger problem that we do not want to have our name/work tied into. This is one reason I am hesitant to give too much detail. We are actually going to tackle from the larger end first but if that fails, then may go this route. Or we might need to attack from both directions including with a cease and desist so if it happens again, we will already have a paper trail.
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peabrain
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by peabrain on Dec 17, 2019 15:31:12 GMT
I know in your op you said, "Is it legal for an employee to have taken photos"
But I wanted to ask, did HE take the photos? I'm not sure it matters legally, but I guess I wanted to clarify.
Also, if he did take the photos, is it of something available to the public? Like, did he take a picture of a building on a street?
Again, not sure if it matters, but just asking. Thank you for clarifying and I hope things go your way!
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Post by anneinwa on Dec 17, 2019 15:41:50 GMT
I know in your op you said, "Is it legal for an employee to have taken photos" But I wanted to ask, did HE take the photos? I'm not sure it matters legally, but I guess I wanted to clarify. Also, if he did take the photos, is it of something available to the public? Like, did he take a picture of a building on a street? Again, not sure if it matters, but just asking. Thank you for clarifying and I hope things go your way! Quick before I run out the door. Yes these are photos he had taken. However, in order for the photos to have been taken, it would have been trespassing for anyone who did not have permission to be there. Not something he could shoot from the sidewalk. The issue I am starting to have, it that he is tying his name into these projects. And in doing so he is projecting the assumption to potential clients, that he/his business was solely responsible for the work. If there was a tag somewhere saying "project I helped with" or "example of how I mitered these corners together" I would probably not mind as much. |
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Deleted
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May 4, 2024 16:42:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 18:33:32 GMT
Before going any further I would stop and ask myself what I am hoping to get out of this if you confront the man about the photos. Will it benefit you or your business? Is it worth the drama it will cause?
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Post by manda on Dec 19, 2019 6:31:56 GMT
Unless you had a specific acknowledgement/agreement explicitly stating he can't do what he's doing, this may be a tough one to fight. Sometimes I find it's just not worth the energy to fight. Fair? No. It fricking sucks.
People lie all the time. Especially about employment and projects they've done.
Recently I saw a former coworker take a full credit for a project I managed and did most of work on in house along with an outside consultant. She was supposed to be involved but didn't do shit. It chaps my hide but there is not a damn thing I can do about it.
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Post by mustlovecats on Dec 19, 2019 13:54:55 GMT
I have a work product agreement. I can put things I developed in my portfolio - which I would use as evidence for promotion or to move jobs or whatever. But I don’t own that work, I can’t sell it on Teachers Pay Teachers if I made it for school. I can make stuff independently and sell it but then I can’t use it in the classroom.
My guess is he is using work product for advertising and it would be illegal if he had such an agreement. If he didn’t then it is probably unethical but not illegal. If he lacks the skills he is advertising he is harming himself. I’m not a lawyer though.
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