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Post by myboysnme on Apr 15, 2020 0:54:51 GMT
I just got off the phone with my brother, Dave and I was thinking, who can I talk to? Then I was surfing 2 peas and I thought, the peas might help me sort things out. Lord knows there is plenty of experience here with similar issues. If you can hang into my story I am open to your ideas and feedback.
My mother is 85. She lives independently 5 hours away from me. She has 4 children. I am the oldest and have her power of attorney and will be her executor. My youngest sister cut herself off fro my mom so although she is just an hour away she does not exist for this issue. The next sibling is my brother, Bob who is in such poor health from COPD he might not live out the year. He is nuts anyway, a raging conservative who will cuss a person out in a heartbeat if they have college, a profession or liberal thoughts. He lives an hour away from my mom also but basically cannot help out because of his own health. He can run his mouth though.
There is my other brother, Dave,who has been in and out of prison his entire life, primarily alcohol offenses but has managed to stay out for almost 5 years now. He still drinks and still drives without a license. He lived with my mom until last summer when he and his fiancee bought a house. It is not handicapped accessible in any possible way. It is about 15 minutes from my mom's rental home and his job is less than a minute away from her as well. He has always been her favorite and she has relied on him to stay in this home in terms of maintenance/yard work, etc.
Then there is me. I am retired. I also worked as a hospital social worker for 30 years. My mother and I have been close and before this quarantine I visited her about every other month. My mother is very very stubborn, outspoken, and loves her privacy and living alone. . My mom had a knee replacement about 10 years ago and never had the other one done. She can hardly walk and has put on a lot of abdominal weight. This puts incredible stress on her already terrible knees. Subsequently she has been falling. She has 2 sets of stairs in her home that is a rental. She refused to see an ortho doc to see what could be done for her knees to give her mobility.
This past weekend she fell again. This time the bone holding her knee replacement was fractured. She ended up getting admitted to the hospital. My brother Dave who lives nearby has been handling everything, and has been calling me up telling me he is emotionally stressed and can't handle all this. I told him I am coming up as soon as she is discharged. He is angry that I have the power of attorney and I haven't said one word to him about the fact he is the one talking to the staff and doctors. He's right there so all that matters is that she gets what she needs.
She fell again in the hospital getting up to use the bathroom. She won't listen to them. Dave calls me up and he's all upset that she won't listen. He said she cannot go home but he won't allow her to go into 'a home.' My mother has the financial resources to go whereever she wants and lives in the midst of all kinds of senior living options. The plan has always been that she will move near me when needed, but she told me she is not ready to move.
Dave is going on and on about getting an estimate to build onto his house for her. He cannot afford it, he cant even pay his mortgage. He is one police stop from going to jail again. My mom does not care for his fiancee and would never live with her. Then at the same time my brother is going on and on about his stress, and I told him why is he getting estimates about adding on to his house when she is not going there. He starts yelling about he needs to do it and why do I have a power of attorney and what he's going to let her do and not do. I think he had been drinking.
Several years ago when my mother was hospitalized I went up to take care of her and I ended up having to call the police because Dave came in and threatened me in a drunken rage. I slept on the floor in my mom;s room to make sure he couldn't harm me. Tonight I felt all that fear coming back because I could hear it in his voice that he wants to run the show and control everything. What he cannot recognize is my mom is completely competent and she will do exactly what she wants to do and nothing else.
I am fully prepared to move her near me or even with me temporarily if need be. My hope is that the ortho doc will tell her that both knees can be replaced and she can continue to live independently when she is healed. I can stay with her during recovery.
So here's my worries: What if she won't agree to anything feasible and insists on staying in her home? What am I going to do to deal with my brother Dave because he is the one right there and he is used to being intimidating to be in control - he mastered that during his many prison stints. Dave keeps saying we have to decide and tell her how it's going to be. That is not my approach with my mom and it's never been the way to deal with her. How long is it reasonable for me to stay with her until I get back to my own life because right now my mom doesn't even want me there at all. She is in denial about her needs but I have hope that her medical staff can lay it out for her. How can I successfully move my brother from his position of being the decision maker in light of the fact he keeps yelling about being too stressed to handle this and telling me I have to get up there. I am already packed and ready to go as soon as I hear she will be discharged I will be on the road. She can;t have any visitors which is why I haven't gone yet.
I don't know. Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share?
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Post by christine58 on Apr 15, 2020 1:00:26 GMT
No experiences in this but I would find a way to bring your mother home with you now. Tell her she doesn’t have a choice because of this virus, she’s safer with you, and then you can sort out a place for her to live. But I would be nowhere near this brother because he sounds like he could hurt you or her. I would also call and talk to the social worker of where she currently is hospitalized. Tell them what’s going on and ask for help
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Post by AussieMeg on Apr 15, 2020 1:03:49 GMT
I haven't been in that situation so I can't offer any advice. But I would be concerned about your brother trying to convince your mum to sign over power of attorney to him. And would that then give him access to her money?
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teddyw
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,836
Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
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Post by teddyw on Apr 15, 2020 1:06:46 GMT
Call the hospital social worker/ discharge planner and tell them all of this. They can spell it out for your mom. Tell them her options that you know are feasible without knowing what her dr says.
Also call her physician and get the prognosis/diagnosis from them directly. Not your brother.
Thank goodness your brother isn’t POA her money would be gone.
Sometimes it helps for the person resisting to hear it from a non-family member.
There’s also adult protective services if your brother gets out of control.
I’m sorry you’re facing this especially now.
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Post by scrappychick on Apr 15, 2020 1:34:26 GMT
Your mother cannot live on her own, 5 hours away from you, when your brother has stated that he cannot handle the stress of taking care of her. He is right that you do need to tell her her options, and that continuing to live on her own is not one of those options. It’s time for you to sit her down and lay out her options.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 15, 2020 1:36:48 GMT
Ugh, that is tough.
If you went to stay with her would she have to go up or downstairs to eat, sleep, or pee?
That would be the best reason to have her come stay with you. While she is there, perhaps look at housing options?
Best of luck
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Apr 15, 2020 1:48:07 GMT
I read your entire post. And at the risk of being negative..... in the current world it would not, could not, under any avoidable circumstances put a loved one (or KEEP a loved one) in any form of group living. Just. No. My employer has given me latitude and there just really is no way it would be ok to me.
I get that some folks/living situations/employers etc aren’t. But. Truthfully.. Holyoke Vets Home.
I couldn’t do that to someone I love unless I absolutely had no other choice. Look at MA group living. It should turn your stomach.
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Post by grammadee on Apr 15, 2020 1:53:59 GMT
If you have POA, then do you have the right to her medical information directly from the hospital/ doctors? Or is it just the power over financial matters? The more details you can get directly from the medical staff and the social worker on site the better.
Is your home accessible to her in her condition? Obviously your brother's home won't be magically renovated in time for her to come out of the hospital and go to him.
Go to her. Assess her physical and mental condition while you are there. Can she handle the transfer to your home? A five hour car trip could be pretty exhausting for her. Can you offer her the opportunity to come live with you for the interim until her injured knee heals? Stress that this is temperary, and that no permanent decision has to be made at this time.
So sad that you are going through this right now when so many options we seemed to have just a couple of months ago are now so limited.
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Post by 950nancy on Apr 15, 2020 1:56:35 GMT
I think she needs to hear these things in small increments. Maybe the first step is that she is coming to live with you until the pandemic is over. When you get her out of the house, take all important paperwork with you. Don't leave anything in the house of big/sentimental value. Take it week by week and maybe she'll start to come around.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,151
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Apr 15, 2020 1:58:06 GMT
Call the hospital social worker/ discharge planner and tell them all of this. They can spell it out for your mom. Tell them her options that you know are feasible without knowing what her dr says. Also call her physician and get the prognosis/diagnosis from them directly. Not your brother. Thank goodness your brother isn’t POA her money would be gone. Sometimes it helps for the person resisting to hear it from a non-family member. There’s also adult protective services if your brother gets out of control. I’m sorry you’re facing this especially now. I would definitely make your concerns well known to her MD and hospital. Then if you think this angle would work with her, i'd play on brother being stressed to get her to return home with you to "recover" for a short time...would give you some time to regroup if you could get her on board with this.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Apr 15, 2020 2:02:39 GMT
When she is released from the hospital, will she be going to rehab? Or will she be released to go directly home?
I agree that you should get the info directly from her healthcare providers rather than filtered through your brother. You can make a more informed decision then.
Come back and let us know what more you find out.
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Post by scrapmaven on Apr 15, 2020 2:16:04 GMT
I would be most concerned about your brother driving her anywhere. He is a very unsafe driver. Feel free to let the police know that he's driving w/o a license. If he's still on parole, too bad for him. I think your mom would be safest living near you. If your mom could afford an independent living place I'd highly recommend it. My mil lives in a place we call the cruise ship. It's not your gothic nursing home of yesteryear. It's like a resort. Mil has her own apartment and lives independently, but she's a fall risk, so there are people to help in case she needs it. There are levels of care and it's totally worth it for her safety and our peace of mind. It's a state of the art complex and the residents are active and treated really well.
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Post by mikklynn on Apr 15, 2020 2:25:36 GMT
No advice, just a giant hug.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 11, 2024 13:34:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 2:42:01 GMT
A giant hug and a similar situation, only I am 2000 miles away and so are the sibs that cause the trouble. I too am POA.
I advise relying on the pandemic. Tell her it is not because she is incapable of living alone, but that it is safer right now for her to be with you. That is mostly true, from what I read in your post, it is safer for the two of you to be together right now. Then after she heals more, the two of you can make decisions about where to go from here.
Just get her back to your house and go from there.
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,763
Jun 25, 2014 23:21:30 GMT
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Post by scrapngranny on Apr 15, 2020 2:53:04 GMT
If your mom would agree to having both knees done she could go to a rehab facility until she is able to care for herself. She could have it done at a hospital close to you.
What I have seen with stubborn elderly is that things progress until the decisions are out of their hands because of situations they can’t control. My dad was a prime example. He was falling fairly often, one day he fell in his house, next door to me. My DH and I couldn’t get him up, so I had to call 911. Long story short he was never able to stand again after that. I was unable to care for him, because I was unable to lift him. He had no choice except to go into a nursing facility. The only good thing about all this is, I was an only child, and I didn’t have anyone making things worse.
Your brother does not sound like a workable choice for a caregiver. Caring for an elder parent is not an easy task, it takes an abundance of patience. Maybe if possible you could talk to your mom when she is receptive, ask her if she is not able to go home to her house right away, what options is she willing to consider.
You have my blessings. I hope you find something that works for you and her both.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 15, 2020 2:55:56 GMT
I think she needs to hear these things in small increments. Maybe the first step is that she is coming to live with you until the pandemic is over. When you get her out of the house, take all important paperwork with you. Don't leave anything in the house of big/sentimental value. Take it week by week and maybe she'll start to come around. THIS needs repeating! Wishing you the best with your mom!
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Post by ntsf on Apr 15, 2020 3:07:58 GMT
maybe bring her to your home-have someone else lay out the reality.. and hire help.. so it is not all on you.. at least respite... maybe see if there is a m small accessible apartment she could move to.. hire support people and live alone then. but if she can't walk.. she will need lots of help.
hugs.. sounds difficult.
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AllieC
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,057
Jul 4, 2014 6:57:02 GMT
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Post by AllieC on Apr 15, 2020 5:14:43 GMT
This is a really tough situation. Is your POA for both financial matters and medical? IN Aus all the states have different terms so I'm not sure what the one you are talking about covers. If not including medical, I would get one sorted out straight away. Although they can't be used until your Mum doesn't have capacity to make her own decision, at 85 it would be very prudent to arrange. Does your POA allow you to restrict who the medical staff can talk or who can arrange care? If so, tell everyone involved with your Mum that they are only to speak to you.
Speak to the social workers at the hospital regarding options and also get them to talk to your Mum about them. I have found them to be very compassionate and sometimes the family member will take their advice on board when they aren't listening to their loved ones concerns. I would imagine that the hospital has already flagged her as high risk due to her falls so they may have a list of options waiting for you.
Sending hugs.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Apr 15, 2020 11:45:35 GMT
I was a medical social worker before children. Much of my job involved issues with family members of my patients being on wildly different pages. I know the old cliche about “physician heal thyself,” but surely in your thirty years you dealt with plenty of families just like yours. What would your “professional self” do in this situation?
At first assessment with the information you’ve provided, it would be best to have your mother discharged to your home. Then you will have all the time needed to talk with her about what the next steps are.
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Post by myboysnme on Apr 15, 2020 14:14:41 GMT
Thank you all so much. I am awaiting a call from the hospital social worker. Will let you know how it all ends up!
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 15, 2020 14:50:11 GMT
I’m a little late to this but if you have the room in your house for the time being, I would move her there vs. a rehab place at this time once she gets out of the hospital. It doesn’t sound like going back to her home is a viable option with your brother under so much stress already, and I wouldn’t want my loved ones going to any kind of group housing facility with the pandemic in full swing. Once she is with you, you will have more time to discuss what to do going forward.
It’s also great that you are getting the social worker involved because they can be a huge help with things like this. When my mom was first having real problems due to Alzheimer’s, we had someone come in and assess her basic living skills at home. It was eye opening for my siblings who kept insisting that “mom is just fine” when um, NO, she really wasn’t. Good luck my friend, these things are always so hard. Hugs to you and your mom with all of this.
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Post by Really Red on Apr 15, 2020 15:23:17 GMT
I was a medical social worker before children. Much of my job involved issues with family members of my patients being on wildly different pages. I know the old cliche about “physician heal thyself,” but surely in your thirty years you dealt with plenty of families just like yours. What would your “professional self” do in this situation? At first assessment with the information you’ve provided, it would be best to have your mother discharged to your home. Then you will have all the time needed to talk with her about what the next steps are. Ugh. You are not in a good position, but I agree with this advice and the advice of 950nancy. Don't tell her everything at once. That is overwhelming to anyone. Just tell her that for now she's coming to stay with you until she gets better. Then deal with everything as it comes. Sorry you're going through this.
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Post by SunnySmile on Apr 15, 2020 17:45:46 GMT
I'm so sorry you are in this situation. As others have said, I would take her home with you through at least the end of the pandemic. I doubt she will be able to live alone again. I don't think they will do knee replacements on someone your mother's age, so she will need a lot of help. I would do my level best to stay away from Dave. His anger over the power of attorney is telling and frankly, a bit scary. Hugs to you.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 15, 2020 21:39:53 GMT
Can you bring your mom home under the guise of riding out the virus?
Then start to talk yo her?
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Post by elaine on Apr 15, 2020 23:49:30 GMT
Thank you all so much. I am awaiting a call from the hospital social worker. Will let you know how it all ends up! Good. The reality is that with her frequent repeated falls, she can’t live completely independently anymore. It is a harsh truth. There are independent senior living communities where she can have her own apartment, but has the option of meals in the dining room or to cook in her apartment. Single level apartment, that is, with no stairs. And then when she needs more care, there are options in the community for truly assisted living. In my mom’s facility the apartments have the hospital-type pull cords in the bathrooms for if they need help and the residents have call button lanyards to wear around their necks if they are fall risks. I moved my 85 mother into a community like this summer - it was a battle to get her to move 3000 from Los Angeles, where she lived for 57 years. Having her closer (she’s still an hour away) has been a g-dsend. I take her to her doctor’s appointments, so I know what exactly is going on. And now with COVID she has gone from grumbling about it to being extremely thankful - she would have been so isolated and unable to get food for herself, etc. My MIL refused to let us move her out of her house that only had 1 bathroom. On the 2nd level. As was predicted, she fell and seriously broke her ankle. She was never able to move home after that. There is story after story after story out there about elderly parents who refuse to move out of their homes until a fall sends them into the hospital and they aren’t able to go home, but move into a senior living arrangement from rehab. With the current state of the world, I would suggest having her live with you, if you have the room and the ability. And then as restrictions lift, look into communities near you. It is hard, and a lot of responsibility, I am sorry. (((Hugs)))
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Post by Legacy Girl on Apr 16, 2020 6:16:43 GMT
I feel for you. My brother is also an alcoholic and his anger and rage nearly destroy me any time we have to interact these days. I will be praying protection (physical and emotional) for you, as well as wisdom to know the best way to handle things for your mother. Bless you for caring for her at such a difficult time in her life.
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Post by auroraborealis on Apr 16, 2020 16:35:06 GMT
I advise relying on the pandemic. Tell her it is not because she is incapable of living alone, but that it is safer right now for her to be with you. That is mostly true, from what I read in your post, it is safer for the two of you to be together right now. Then after she heals more, the two of you can make decisions about where to go from here. Just get her back to your house and go from there.
I would absolutely "use" the pandemic to help your mom understand why being released to your home is the best choice at this time. Not only is it safest (presuming she can be released there, vs. a rehab facility), but your mom can ease her way mentally into the new reality. Over time you both can come up with new, safe, plans for her together.
I am glad you are in touch with the hospital social worker and I hope they are very helpful. I love so much for the advice given here on this thread.
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pancakes
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,993
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on Apr 17, 2020 7:05:05 GMT
You’ve gotten good advice for your mom. In regards to your brother, you might have to play to his personality to diffuse the situation. I’m not sure what he responds to, but you might be able to at least take the edge off of the situation by complimenting/acknowledging him on how much he’s taken on and that you totally understand how it’s adding stress to his life. And positioning you taking your mom with you as a thanks for taking care of all that he has done so far — now let you take on your share of the burden so he can de-stress.
I know it’s a hard thing to do or say when you don’t believe it, but sometimes it’s easier to get what you want by playing to his personality.
I tend to use this technique when dealing with difficult people, especially at work.
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Post by librarylady on Apr 17, 2020 15:01:46 GMT
Any update?
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