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Post by Merge on May 8, 2020 15:54:39 GMT
I hope districts will provide or are providing teachers computers if they are expecting them to teach online, but I obviously don't know (and would not be surprised if they are not providing them). For the first couple of weeks the teachers here were working on computers in their classrooms available to students from 8-11:30 each morning mon thru Friday. Not all teachers have the same work load. I can personally name one or two who are self admittedly lazy for example. I know teachers that are bragging on FB how they are not making their kids do the packets sent home etc. They sent an email to students saying "at home work" can not lower their grades but can improve them. I just don't have the kahoonahs to get on FB and call anyone lazy even the self admitted ones. Like all work force you cant' broad stroke the whole profession as either or. We all know people who go above and beyond, and people who do as little as they can. There are good teachers, bad teachers, good cops, bad cops, good nurses, bad nurses. good truck drivers, bad truck drivers. They are not all heros, and not all degenerates either. Just have respect for your fellow human beings in the end. No, we don’t all have the same workload. And much of what we do and how we do it is dictated by the district or school. I freely admit that I am doing way less than I normally would, but I am restricted to sending out one ten-minute lesson per grade level per week because parents complained that we were overloading the kids. So I put a lot of effort into making my lessons as engaging and easy to follow as possible, and in providing individual feedback to each student who participates. It’s still not anything close to a week’s worth of work. What should I do? I guess I’m one of those lazy teachers with a paid vacation, but I’m doing the best I can within the parameters I’ve been given.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on May 8, 2020 15:56:07 GMT
and have you ever tried to learn a foreign language online? OMG yes and yes and yes. My son has a 3.9 due to online Spanish. The Spanish teacher quit last year so he had to go to online classes as a junior. It was AWFUL and it's the only second language course offered at our little school so if you are on the college track you got to take it. So here is this young man with all high As even in his dual enrollment classes and a B in this. HE managed an A as a Sophomore but with lots of help. No help online, no help with no Spanish teachers. Before anyone asks there were not enough interested in an online sign language class I guess you needed a certain number for the guidance councilor to find a way to offer it. Must cost the school money or something.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on May 8, 2020 16:06:28 GMT
What should I do? I guess I’m one of those lazy teachers with a paid vacation, but I’m doing the best I can within the parameters I’ve been given. Are you asking me? I never said anything about paid vacations or anything. The only teacher in our system that was told to pull back on their at home work load was the freshman math teacher. She was the only one not offering zoom time with her students (or their equivalent) but sent home pages and pages of math they were not taught yet, and told them to essentially "google it". My daughter was hosting zoom conferences with her classmates to help them with it. (Math is her thing, all kids have a 'thing'). The second 2 weeks worth of work was way less demanding. I mean kids were in tears trying to figure out untaught math and the email sent home clearly said "no new skills". It puts teachers in a real bind though. If they can't introduce new material in subjects like math it essentially becomes nothing more then busy work and parents will complain about that too. I have highschoolers so I let them handle it themselves. I am really concerned about the math though for my junior. It was busy work and I just hope what was covered before all this happened is enough of a base for his freshman dual math class next year.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on May 8, 2020 17:36:17 GMT
She said on average 4 kids a day log in. They don’t care if it’s mandatory. Some kids have never logged in or done a single assignment. They and their parents are not responding to emails or phone calls. They act as if it’s optional. Then they shouldn't pass. Zero's for grades. If it's mandatory there should be repercussions if they are not doing the work. If you’re grading distance learning, you’re grading privilege.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 5, 2024 0:18:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 17:53:29 GMT
If you’re grading distance learning, you’re grading privilege. Isn't the same "privilege" that was being graded before? My district provided the free equipment, free lunches and breakfasts, there is free access to spectrum internet from Spectrum. Poor or involved parenting hasn't changed. I expect my daughter's efforts or lack there of be graded and that there be accountability.
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SabrinaP
Pearl Clutcher
Busy Teacher Pea
Posts: 4,355
Location: Dallas Texas
Jun 26, 2014 12:16:22 GMT
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Post by SabrinaP on May 8, 2020 18:09:19 GMT
If you’re grading distance learning, you’re grading privilege. Isn't the same "privilege" that was being graded before? My district provided the free equipment, free lunches and breakfasts, there is free access to spectrum internet from Spectrum. Poor or involved parenting hasn't changed. I expect my daughter's efforts or lack there of be graded and that there be accountability. I don't know about other schools, but our school has completely stopped homework because we cannot ensure a level playing field. Some kids have parents that can help with 6th grade math and some kids don't. Some kids have quiet places to work, and some kids don't. Some kids only have to worry about their school work when they get home, and some kids are responsible for taking care of siblings, cooking dinner, etc when they get home. I think this is what Katybee means when she says grading privilege. In the classroom we can level out the playing field to make sure each kid gets the teacher's attention and that what we are grading is coming from the student and not the parent. We of course cannot eliminate all effects of privilege, but it's a lot easier when we can control some of the variables I listed above within the walls of our classrooms.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on May 8, 2020 18:30:04 GMT
If you’re grading distance learning, you’re grading privilege. Isn't the same "privilege" that was being graded before? My district provided the free equipment, free lunches and breakfasts, there is free access to spectrum internet from Spectrum. Poor or involved parenting hasn't changed. I expect my daughter's efforts or lack there of be graded and that there be accountability. For example, one of my sweetest, but most underprivileged boys lives at home with his mom, dad, middle school sister and freshman brother. Mom and dad are essential workers and are still working outside of the home. They share ONE district provided chrome book. Brother and sister are doing their best to help my student while at the same time completing their assignments, mostly independently. Mom and dad are great parents, but I would be surprised if they finished high school. And their english is not great. So helping with the middle and high school work is not really possible for them. But they are ALL trying their best. Should they be graded the same as another family of mine, who have extremely educated parents—one an engineer and the other a former teacher/stay at home mom. They have multiple devices, high speed internet, tons of books at home. The work I am getting from this family is beautiful. if we were at school, I would be helping both boys equally and they would both be doing beautiful work. Your daughter should 100% be getting feedback. But are “grades” really that important right now?
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Post by Merge on May 8, 2020 18:43:00 GMT
If any “disruptions” to education come out of all this, I hope we’ll seriously reconsider the value of static grades vs. ongoing, formative feedback, particularly in elementary and middle school.
To my way of thinking, traditional grades are a pretty lazy way of assessing students, and can often do more harm than good. One thing I have liked at my current private school is that they’re moving toward a feedback-based assessment system in grades K-8. No real grades until high school. The thing is that so much learning in K-8 is developmental. Kids progress at different rates, and whether you take a week to master long division or the whole dang year, either way, you’ve mastered it. The string of low grades you got while you were learning doesn’t reflect the fact that you mastered it and just took a little more time than the kid next to you.
Feedback based assessment is a LOT more work for teachers (as I’ve been writing 325 individualized report card comments each nine weeks for the past two years), but in the long run, it’s a lot more meaningful than giving Sarah an A on the first report card because she understood beat vs. rhythm right away, and giving Michael a D on the first report card because it took him longer to grasp the concept.
(This is also what makes standardized tests so useless as an “accountability” tool IMO.)
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teddyw
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,873
Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
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Post by teddyw on May 8, 2020 19:00:10 GMT
I’m pretty sure you are in my district. or maybe the district next-door. Trust me – we hate the slide decks! The activities are low level and not engaging at all, they are cluttered and hard to navigate, they are ugly and old fashioned. We were told, in no uncertain terms, in the name of “equity,” we are not allowed to change the activities. I was a rule follower for about the first two weeks. And then one of our kindergarten parents went to the school board to complain about how terrible the slide decks were, and the school board blamed the teachers! so then – all bets were off. I now leave the activities the same, I do not change the learning objective, but I add a video of me doing a lesson and explaining the activity for every subject. I am very proud of them and my parents love them. But they take a lot of work! I am working more now than I did when I was in school. Although if I wanted to, I could get by probably with less than half of the work I’m doing now. Yes, I'm pretty sure we are the same district. Yeah, the slides are soooo frustrating - one of DD's teachers in particular seems to have a hard time with them and has deleted all of DD's work one week (I saw and verified, it said deleted by <teachername>, and she still required DD to redo it all), has slides with illustrations that are smaller than a postage stamp and can't be enlarged but she has to write 2 paragraphs about it, etc. We've heard that the slide decks are the same across the district for every student in that class/grade level - is that the case? It would definitely explain why DS is being given work that seems mostly below what he's been doing in school. He's still elementary, and our elementary is one of the "good" ones, so I wouldn't be surprised if they are further along that some of the other schools. (It would also explain why DD seems to have a lot of work - she's in MS and not at one of the ones considered "good." It's been good for her, though, hence why I put "good" in quotation marks.) My daughter has been so happy to have the meetups this week. She said some of the teachers are practically crying, they are so happy to see the kids. And I'm so sure it's true - from both student and teacher sides, this format has reduced everyone to doing all of the drudgery of school without any of the good stuff. I don't blame my kids' teachers for anything here. Heck, if nothing else, they've all already shown me in the first 3/4 of the year that they care. Why would I suspect anything less just because they aren't in school? That’s awful about your dd having to redo work because it’s been deleted. My dd has a student whose mom is worried about this. So she records everything her son does. As she’s recording it she has comments along with it. My dd says it’s hilarious and makes her week. One example is he said he’s been exercising. The mom refuted it and said yeah your arm on the game controller.
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Post by PEAcan pie on May 8, 2020 19:16:20 GMT
online? What if the times overlap? We’ve had 3 zoom meetings at a time going in this house before. Chromebook (mine from school) for my 3rd trader, IPad (belongs to the kid) for the 4 year old, macbook (mine from school) for me. thankfully we have plenty of devices here and xfinity had been good for us with bandwidth. The School gave each family one chromebook (borrow) per family, and I bought another. My oldest has his macbook. They staggered the time slots by age so it helps with time conflicts. It has been challenging and I do wish we had more facetime with my 2nd graders teacher. Like I mentioned at least 3 hours a week would be helpful.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on May 8, 2020 19:25:32 GMT
Also—even for families that have multiple devices, wifi has been a huge issue. What was once very adequate speed is suddenly being challenged by multiple people streaming at the same time,,.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,017
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on May 8, 2020 19:38:34 GMT
I teach computer applications. Teaching technology skills via Zoom is so difficult. I am working twice as hard at home as I am when I am with students. It is so hard to help them when you can't see their screen. I have students who don't attend Zoom meetings and then they have no idea how to do the assignment. I post the Zoom meeting videos. Doesn't matter.
We have had complaints about too much work.
Parents and students seem to think we are available all day every day. I ignore weekend emails.
I am just hoping and praying we can go back to school in the fall. This isn't teaching to me. And I am so mad about how our district has decided we are grading for this last 6 weeks. I will be so happy when we are done.
We will have staff development the week of the 18th. That will be so great!
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,017
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on May 8, 2020 19:40:25 GMT
I have students who are doing such an awesome job! I am going to make some kind of certificate to send them next week. My 6th graders are by far the most engaged. The vast majority show up to Zoom meetings and they complete their work. My 8th graders are the worse.
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Post by Merge on May 8, 2020 19:44:58 GMT
Also—even for families that have multiple devices, wifi has been a huge issue. What was once very adequate speed is suddenly being challenged by multiple people streaming at the same time,,. This was an issue here at my house today. With four of us trying to do Zoom meetings simultaneously, our (very robust) wifi could not keep up.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 5, 2024 0:18:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 20:11:50 GMT
If any “disruptions” to education come out of all this, I hope we’ll seriously reconsider the value of static grades vs. ongoing, formative feedback, particularly in elementary and middle school. To my way of thinking, traditional grades are a pretty lazy way of assessing students, and can often do more harm than good. One thing I have liked at my current private school is that they’re moving toward a feedback-based assessment system in grades K-8. No real grades until high school. The thing is that so much learning in K-8 is developmental. Kids progress at different rates, and whether you take a week to master long division or the whole dang year, either way, you’ve mastered it. The string of low grades you got while you were learning doesn’t reflect the fact that you mastered it and just took a little more time than the kid next to you. Feedback based assessment is a LOT more work for teachers (as I’ve been writing 325 individualized report card comments each nine weeks for the past two years), but in the long run, it’s a lot more meaningful than giving Sarah an A on the first report card because she understood beat vs. rhythm right away, and giving Michael a D on the first report card because it took him longer to grasp the concept. (This is also what makes standardized tests so useless as an “accountability” tool IMO.) Standing up and applauding you @merge! These are the types of ideas I am referring to when I use the word "disruption". Change in mindset - change in process - work may be harder for a little while but you get a much better outcome. When you move to an online working model this is one thing you have to do - set boundaries and teach people how to treat you. You have office hours. You have teaching hours. You have email hours. You have dedicated "concentration" hours where you have uninterrupted time to plan lessons, create curriculum, rehearse lessons, etc. No one should expect teachers to be available seven hours a day remotely because they/you were available in a classroom 9 hours before. Again - mindset change that has to happen.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 5, 2024 0:18:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 20:16:47 GMT
As for ZOOM and wireless - I have discovered it works much better when I am plugged in to the route with a network cable. We can have five video streams going at the same time without issues. Granted, we do have business class internet versus residential which makes a HUGE difference with Spectrum, but video conferencing really needs a wired connection to be stable and clear.
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Post by Merge on May 8, 2020 20:29:26 GMT
If any “disruptions” to education come out of all this, I hope we’ll seriously reconsider the value of static grades vs. ongoing, formative feedback, particularly in elementary and middle school. To my way of thinking, traditional grades are a pretty lazy way of assessing students, and can often do more harm than good. One thing I have liked at my current private school is that they’re moving toward a feedback-based assessment system in grades K-8. No real grades until high school. The thing is that so much learning in K-8 is developmental. Kids progress at different rates, and whether you take a week to master long division or the whole dang year, either way, you’ve mastered it. The string of low grades you got while you were learning doesn’t reflect the fact that you mastered it and just took a little more time than the kid next to you. Feedback based assessment is a LOT more work for teachers (as I’ve been writing 325 individualized report card comments each nine weeks for the past two years), but in the long run, it’s a lot more meaningful than giving Sarah an A on the first report card because she understood beat vs. rhythm right away, and giving Michael a D on the first report card because it took him longer to grasp the concept. (This is also what makes standardized tests so useless as an “accountability” tool IMO.) Standing up and applauding you @merge! These are the types of ideas I am referring to when I use the word "disruption". Change in mindset - change in process - work may be harder for a little while but you get a much better outcome. When you move to an online working model this is one thing you have to do - set boundaries and teach people how to treat you. You have office hours. You have teaching hours. You have email hours. You have dedicated "concentration" hours where you have uninterrupted time to plan lessons, create curriculum, rehearse lessons, etc. No one should expect teachers to be available seven hours a day remotely because they/you were available in a classroom 9 hours before. Again - mindset change that has to happen. Yeah, the thing is, feedback based grading is only possible in my current environment because we have much smaller classes and much more planning time than I had in public school. It would not be sustainable in any public school environment I’ve worked in without that bag of money I mentioned to hire a lot more teachers and aides. (Is feedback based grading better than letter/number grades? I think it is. But it would require substantial investment in personnel and school infrastructure.)
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,473
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on May 8, 2020 21:20:48 GMT
If you’re grading distance learning, you’re grading privilege. Isn't the same "privilege" that was being graded before? My district provided the free equipment, free lunches and breakfasts, there is free access to spectrum internet from Spectrum. Poor or involved parenting hasn't changed. I expect my daughter's efforts or lack there of be graded and that there be accountability. This is my argument too. We've given the kids EVERYTHING to be successful aside from parents who are engaged and interested. It's the EXACT thing we deal with in the classroom but we are the "parent" so at some point the parents need to step up.
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Post by freecharlie on May 8, 2020 21:25:19 GMT
I have to disagree about not being able to teach art online. Are they doing projects? What if they don't have any of the supplies? (genuinely curious as I am thinking there are a lot of people who lack art supplies at home) Then they shouldn't pass. Zero's for grades. If it's mandatory there should be repercussions if they are not doing the work. That sounds good in theory, but we've seen teachers on here complain about internet. What if it is an internet issue? What if it is a lack of computer? OR what if they are now taking care of their siblings or having to get a job to help out or they don't understand and neither does anybody else in the house? What if they just didn't get online and don't know what is expected? Or what if they are so stressed out and anxious about what is going on that school doesn't seem like a priority. Now, that isn't to say that I don't think they should be held somewhat responsible, but it is very hard when all of the circumstances are so different. We didn't have time to roll this out in a way that might help learning. And how do we fail a kid who was passing when the schools closed? IT isn't their fault the school closed and they probably would have had no problem passing if the school stayed open. I just don't think things are black and white
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on May 8, 2020 21:28:03 GMT
Isn't the same "privilege" that was being graded before? My district provided the free equipment, free lunches and breakfasts, there is free access to spectrum internet from Spectrum. Poor or involved parenting hasn't changed. I expect my daughter's efforts or lack there of be graded and that there be accountability. This is my argument too. We've given the kids EVERYTHING to be successful aside from parents who are engaged and interested. It's the EXACT thing we deal with in the classroom but we are the "parent" so at some point the parents need to step up. Kids can’t choose their parents. And a computer and hot spot is nowhere close to “everything.” Like I said, in the classroom, this little boy works like a beast. But I am there to teach him.
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Post by freecharlie on May 8, 2020 21:46:06 GMT
Also—even for families that have multiple devices, wifi has been a huge issue. What was once very adequate speed is suddenly being challenged by multiple people streaming at the same time,,. Yup, I've made sure to not schedule any video meetings or classes during my college freshman son's classes so that we aren't competing and my yds either uses his phone as a hot spot or stays off of the internet during that time just in case
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 5, 2024 0:18:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 21:47:06 GMT
And that is where the rubber meets the road. In order to streamline and change requires funding which we know our Texas legislatures and property owners are not very fond of doing.
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Post by freecharlie on May 8, 2020 21:51:56 GMT
Isn't the same "privilege" that was being graded before? My district provided the free equipment, free lunches and breakfasts, there is free access to spectrum internet from Spectrum. Poor or involved parenting hasn't changed. I expect my daughter's efforts or lack there of be graded and that there be accountability. This is my argument too. We've given the kids EVERYTHING to be successful aside from parents who are engaged and interested. It's the EXACT thing we deal with in the classroom but we are the "parent" so at some point the parents need to step up. I don't know that we have given them EVERYTHING. I have students who don't always have heat and they definitely don't have a/c. Some of them ate at school and got extra food from teachers. Without school they are hungry. Perhaps they have a sibling who takes all their parent's attention or who has a detrimental effect on the student. Or maybe someone in the household has a mental illness or an addiction. We can't give them EVERYTHING to be successful when we don't know what their home life is like and what they need. We gave them a computer and maybe free internet. If that is all they need to be successful, then we don't need teachers.
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Post by sasha on May 8, 2020 21:53:57 GMT
OMG, people suck. I once volunteered at my daughter's elementary school and couldn't wait to get the hell out. Teaching is a hard profession. Anyone who thinks it's easy, teachers are lazy, or that they have "summer's off" should just STFU.
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Post by Merge on May 8, 2020 21:57:41 GMT
OMG, people suck. I once volunteered at my daughter's elementary school and couldn't wait to get the hell out. Teaching is a hard profession. Anyone who thinks it's easy, teachers are lazy, or that they have "summer's off" should just STFU. I’m glad you’re back. ☺️
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 8, 2020 22:07:54 GMT
Isn't the same "privilege" that was being graded before? My district provided the free equipment, free lunches and breakfasts, there is free access to spectrum internet from Spectrum. Poor or involved parenting hasn't changed. I expect my daughter's efforts or lack there of be graded and that there be accountability. This is my argument too. We've given the kids EVERYTHING to be successful aside from parents who are engaged and interested. It's the EXACT thing we deal with in the classroom but we are the "parent" so at some point the parents need to step up. I understand you're frustrated, truly I do. I'll just suggest that just as parents are not aware of all of the challenges teachers are facing right now, nor are teachers. I have no doubt that everyone is trying to support kids, but these are unprecedented times. I live in a bubble far removed from the most challenging of family circumstances, but even the middle/upper/wealthy families there are unprecedented challenges. I know middle income families who have always put school first and who never dreamed that their kid wouldn't do a hw assignment who are having their kids work all day in the family restaurant to box take away orders as the parents can't pay staff and fear losing their business. I know lots and lots of kids who are taking care of siblings as their parents are working and there are no other options and as any parent on here can attest, trying to keep a small child engaged and do anything is anything but easy. I also know lots and lots of families that are struggling in so many different ways and the kids just can't care about school as they see their parents falling apart.
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Post by aj2hall on May 8, 2020 22:13:06 GMT
I work at an elementary school, have 2 kids in high school and 1 in college. From what I see, teachers are working harder than ever. At my school, the teachers can meet with students on google but not record the sessions. For privacy reasons, they can’t record sessions with students. So, they are recording the lesson for students not in the meeting and then giving it in a google meet. Elementary school teachers are spending a lot of time in 1:1 sessions to help kids. Many of the teachers have their own children that they’re trying to take care of and help with school. Anyone who thinks teachers are lazy should spend a day at a school.
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Post by SunnySmile on May 8, 2020 22:15:46 GMT
My dh is a teacher and he is doing more work now than when he was in the classroom. He is sometimes still on the computer until well after dinner doing lesson plans, answering emails, etc. He still did lesson plans and all before, but he has a very active classroom teaching Spanish with competitions, games and other physical class participation. He now has to switch to total lecture type teaching and has to plan differently. He also has office hours every day where he has to be at his computer between certain hours in case any student needs extra help. It is most definitely NOT an extra 6 weeks of vacation. Half the parents don't even make sure their kids are in class every day. THEY are the ones treating it like vacation. Their kid doesn't show up to class, so they come crying to him the day before the test and he has to teach the whole thing over again. He doesn't even mind though, I get more miffed about it than he does haha! He definitely does prefer teaching in a classroom though. Can he do this? My ds teachers are recording their class sessions and emails it to the students. Whoever doesn’t attend needs to watch. And everybody needs to take and submit notes. This is 9th grade. Yes, he does record the lessons, too. They only started doing it recently though. They just got thrown into this and were expected to pick it all up on Monday after quarantine on Friday. Half the problem was the school didn't take the time to educate the students about zoom, so they were thrown into it not knowiing how, too.
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Post by jenjie on May 8, 2020 22:30:52 GMT
Can he do this? My ds teachers are recording their class sessions and emails it to the students. Whoever doesn’t attend needs to watch. And everybody needs to take and submit notes. This is 9th grade. Yes, he does record the lessons, too. They only started doing it recently though. They just got thrown into this and were expected to pick it all up on Monday after quarantine on Friday. Half the problem was the school didn't take the time to educate the students about zoom, so they were thrown into it not knowiing how, too. Yeah I totally hear you. Our teachers set up zoom calls, actually through classroom I guess, just for chat the first couple weeks so the kids could get connect and get accustomed to using the program.
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Post by h2ohdog on May 9, 2020 0:04:03 GMT
I'm spending my summer trying to redo my classes in case we are completely or partly online this fall I hate that you’re working so hard, but I love hearing that you’re thinking ahead like this! I’m trying to convince my school (I’m a volunteer in middle school doing AODA education) to at least THINK about preparing for this, but they are not ready to hear it yet. I admire you all and wish I had chosen this noble profession as a career instead of dipping my toes in when I’m almost retired.
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