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Post by stampbooker on May 25, 2020 0:40:45 GMT
The gist of my rant: My son's boss keeps asking him to come back to work where he is the field manager for a party rental business. He is probably going to lose his unemployment because technically he has a job to return to. But he and I are both really frustrated. The reason his boss keeps calling is that he received money from the government to pay his employees to return to work, and if he doesn't use it then he has to pay it back as a loan. So why is the government encouraging people to return to work in such a non-essential job? Not only non-essential, but the very nature of the business is to help people throw parties and have gatherings, which we are not supposed to be doing!! My son has a newborn, less than 2 months old and is concerned about bringing the virus home.
The background:
I am in Massachusetts. My oldest son works for a party rental business, he is the field manager and the top employee there. Of course he hasn't been working since the shut down and has been receiving unemployment and the unemployment bonus. He is also a new father. His baby was born a couple weeks after the shut down, so actually it has been to his benefit because he would not have been able to take more than a couple unpaid weeks off under normal conditions. Now he has been able to stay home with the baby and collect unemployment
He has taken the stay at home orders very seriously and has been really careful because of course he is concerned about his baby. So for the last 2-3 weeks his boss has been asking him to return to work. At first Elijah told him no because he didn't feel comfortable going out to a non-essential job and potentially bringing back the virus to his newborn. His boss was understanding at first, but now is not so understanding.
I don't know if we are being unreasonable for thinking he should be able to continue collecting unemployment for another month or two or not. I understand that some want the economy to re-open, while others think it should remain shut down for a while. I think that those who are concerned and want to stay home should be allowed to with out consequences, but maybe I am missing something. How would you feel about this situation or others similar.
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Post by myshelly on May 25, 2020 0:51:30 GMT
If you have a job, you shouldn’t be able to collect unemployment.
If you’re on unemployment, you shouldn’t get extra or make more than you did while working.
We don’t need any incentives for people to not go back to work.
Even Fauci has said it’s time to think about reopening and we can’t stay closed forever.
People are staying home out of fear instead of out of need. We shouldn’t reward that with money.
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Post by stampbooker on May 25, 2020 0:54:25 GMT
Yes, I get what you are saying and overall I don't disagree. If he didn't have a newborn baby, there wouldn't be a question, but we are both just worried about making sure the baby stays healthy.
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Post by freecharlie on May 25, 2020 0:54:51 GMT
It is a catch 22. If the business fails because nobody will go back to work and your son runs out of unemployment, what is he going to do then?
It sounds like he could go to work and still not come into contact with people since there aren't many parties being thrown right now.
I'm not a great one to ask though because DH has worked through the whole thing.
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on May 25, 2020 0:55:26 GMT
but we are both just worried about making sure the baby stays healthy. What does the baby's pediatrician say about the situation? |
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 25, 2020 1:09:36 GMT
I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, he has a newborn and I get that even without Covid you want to be careful until your child is fully immunized. But if you have a job to go back to and your boss wants you back, it really isn’t the employee’s place to just say, “Nah, I’m good staying home. Catch ya in a few more months, maybe I’ll be ready then.”
It just doesn’t work that way. The employers have to pay into that UI fund based on how many employees they have and how many/how long anyone they have employed has collected. And if someone has been collecting UI benefits, their employer’s UI tax rate will go up.
If the employee has some sick time, PTO or vacation time he can tap into to extend his leave he should use that first. If he can afford to take an unpaid FMLA leave of absence, he should do that. If not, and there isn’t a lower contact position he could slide into or work from home position either for now or forever to lower his risk of bringing home Covid or any virus for that matter, then maybe it’s time for him to look for a different job.
It sucks all the way around because the employers have bills to pay too and the longer they stay closed the less likely it will be for any of the employees to have a job to go back to. Unemployment isn’t free money.
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Post by Skellinton on May 25, 2020 1:10:48 GMT
If you have a job, you shouldn’t be able to collect unemployment. If you’re on unemployment, you shouldn’t get extra or make more than you did while working. We don’t need any incentives for people to not go back to work. Even Fauci has said it’s time to think about reopening and we can’t stay closed forever. People are staying home out of fear instead of out of need. We shouldn’t reward that with money. I have a job and I am now on unemployment because my work can’t be open (pre-K teacher, in a public school). Why shouldn’t I be able to collect unemployment? The extra they are paying will end up being about an extra 100 per week for me. Without it I would get about 50% of my salary on unemployment. I do agree that people shouldn’t be making more, but I am counting on the extra we will get until July to help make up the difference for when it ends and I still won’t be allowed to work. Now, the public school teachers here are now working 4 days a week instead of 5 and they are getting to claim unemployment and get the extra 600. That is outrageous to me. My hours were cut starting March 13, but I didn’t qualify for unemployment because my hours were not cut enough. But 20% in hours is enough for classroom teachers for some reason. Some areas are still not open, our area is in phase 1, we were going to apply for phase 2 but we had a huge outbreak so we are going to stay at phase 1 for a bit longer. If the governors aren’t allowing certain businesses to open then the people without jobs should be allowed to collect unemployment. I don’t agree that people are staying home out of fear, not need. Some may be, but I don’t think most are. I do agree though if the governor of your state says a business is ready to be open then either you get back to work or quit. Of course it sucks if you have a newborn or person in your house that could be at risk, but then I guess you need to take extra precautions like the medical personnel had been doing the entire time. If you have health concerns that put you at risk then you should be able to get a note from your doctor. |
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Post by myshelly on May 25, 2020 1:13:50 GMT
If you have a job, you shouldn’t be able to collect unemployment. If you’re on unemployment, you shouldn’t get extra or make more than you did while working. We don’t need any incentives for people to not go back to work. Even Fauci has said it’s time to think about reopening and we can’t stay closed forever. People are staying home out of fear instead of out of need. We shouldn’t reward that with money. I have a job and I am now on unemployment because my work can’t be open (pre-K teacher, in a public school). Why shouldn’t I be able to collect unemployment? The extra they are paying will end up being about an extra 100 per week for me. Without it I would get about 50% of my salary on unemployment. I do agree that people shouldn’t be making more, but I am counting on the extra we will get until July to help make up the difference for when it ends and I still won’t be allowed to work. Now, the public school teachers here are now working 4 days a week instead of 5 and they are getting to claim unemployment and get the extra 600. That is outrageous to me. My hours were cut starting March 13, but I didn’t qualify for unemployment because my hours were not cut enough. But 20% in hours is enough for classroom teachers for some reason. Some areas are still not open, our area is in phase 1, we were going to apply for phase 2 but we had a huge outbreak so we are going to stay at phase 1 for a bit longer. If the governors aren’t allowing certain businesses to open then the people without jobs should be allowed to collect unemployment. I don’t agree that people are staying home out of fear, not need. Some may be, but I don’t think most are. Your case is clearly nothing like the case in the OP. |
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Post by Skellinton on May 25, 2020 1:15:48 GMT
I have a job and I am now on unemployment because my work can’t be open (pre-K teacher, in a public school). Why shouldn’t I be able to collect unemployment? The extra they are paying will end up being about an extra 100 per week for me. Without it I would get about 50% of my salary on unemployment. I do agree that people shouldn’t be making more, but I am counting on the extra we will get until July to help make up the difference for when it ends and I still won’t be allowed to work. Now, the public school teachers here are now working 4 days a week instead of 5 and they are getting to claim unemployment and get the extra 600. That is outrageous to me. My hours were cut starting March 13, but I didn’t qualify for unemployment because my hours were not cut enough. But 20% in hours is enough for classroom teachers for some reason. Some areas are still not open, our area is in phase 1, we were going to apply for phase 2 but we had a huge outbreak so we are going to stay at phase 1 for a bit longer. If the governors aren’t allowing certain businesses to open then the people without jobs should be allowed to collect unemployment. I don’t agree that people are staying home out of fear, not need. Some may be, but I don’t think most are. Your case is clearly nothing like the case in the OP. Obviously not, I wasn’t saying it was. I was just replying to your statements. |
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Post by stampbooker on May 25, 2020 1:16:42 GMT
but we are both just worried about making sure the baby stays healthy. What does the baby's pediatrician say about the situation? I'm not sure...I'll ask my son. |
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Post by dewryce on May 25, 2020 1:25:28 GMT
(This is not directed at you Skellington, just made a good jumping point). It also sucks if the governor of your state is making people go back to work in unsafe conditions. And making is the right word for what I want to say. If your business is open the when you don’t work you don’t get paid, and that’s not much of a real choice.
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Post by mom on May 25, 2020 1:29:13 GMT
The gist of my rant: My son's boss keeps asking him to come back to work where he is the field manager for a party rental business. He is probably going to lose his unemployment because technically he has a job to return to. But he and I are both really frustrated. The reason his boss keeps calling is that he received money from the government to pay his employees to return to work, and if he doesn't use it then he has to pay it back as a loan. So why is the government encouraging people to return to work in such a non-essential job? Not only non-essential, but the very nature of the business is to help people throw parties and have gatherings, which we are not supposed to be doing!! My son has a newborn, less than 2 months old and is concerned about bringing the virus home. The background: I am in Massachusetts. My oldest son works for a party rental business, he is the field manager and the top employee there. Of course he hasn't been working since the shut down and has been receiving unemployment and the unemployment bonus. He is also a new father. His baby was born a couple weeks after the shut down, so actually it has been to his benefit because he would not have been able to take more than a couple unpaid weeks off under normal conditions. Now he has been able to stay home with the baby and collect unemployment He has taken the stay at home orders very seriously and has been really careful because of course he is concerned about his baby. So for the last 2-3 weeks his boss has been asking him to return to work. At first Elijah told him no because he didn't feel comfortable going out to a non-essential job and potentially bringing back the virus to his newborn. His boss was understanding at first, but now is not so understanding. I don't know if we are being unreasonable for thinking he should be able to continue collecting unemployment for another month or two or not. I understand that some want the economy to re-open, while others think it should remain shut down for a while. I think that those who are concerned and want to stay home should be allowed to with out consequences, but maybe I am missing something. How would you feel about this situation or others similar. He is a manager - how much contact does he really have with other people? Is there not a way to wear a mask and gloves? Can none of the work be done over the phone? From home? If your son wasn't collecting unemployment + bonus, what would he do? |
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Post by cindyupnorth on May 25, 2020 1:35:48 GMT
Many people have newborns and have been working, or gone back to work. Just use good hand hygiene. I would think they would not be very busy anyway, so now would be a good time to go back. He can't stay on unemployment until the risk is absolutely gone. He just needs to use safety precautions. Shower when he gets home, etc.
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Post by pjaye on May 25, 2020 1:35:53 GMT
I don't know if we are being unreasonable for thinking he should be able to continue collecting unemployment for another month or two or not. I think that is unreasonable. Our Government started a scheme called "job keeper" which is for those businesses who were forced to close because of the restrictions, they pay the employer money so they can keep paying the wages of people who cannot do their jobs. I'm a nurse and when they stopped all elective surgery due to the PPE shortage, we had no patients for me to look after...our hospital is small, & does some elective surgery only. At the very start there were a couple of days when there were no patients that I was at home and still got paid via the job keeper (a fancy new term for the temporary unemployment benefits). However after that, we did start to get some non surgical patients through, and a few urgent cases. So now there are patients and my job expects me to come and and care for them...I don't get to just say "sorry, I don't want to come in yet, I'll stay home and keep getting job keeper payments thanks" It might be nice, but the world doesn't work like that. If you have a job and a contract of employment and your boss wants you to work, then you have 2 options - go to work, or quit. You don't get to have it both ways and have a job and think you can stay home and collect unemployment as well. So yes, "another month or two" of staying home and getting paid unemployment when someone has a job they can go back to and the Government says they are allowed to do it...that is an unreasonable thing to expect. |
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Post by Skellinton on May 25, 2020 1:37:09 GMT
(This is not directed at you Skellington, just made a good jumping point). It also sucks if the governor of your state is making people go back to work in unsafe conditions. And making is the right word for what I want to say. If your business is open the when you don’t work you don’t get paid, and that’s not much of a real choice. That is a good point, I am lucky to live in a state with a sensible Governor, so it was easy for me to say that. I should have taken into account the states with nitwit Governors. Still though, if you have a job to go back to you do have to go back when you are called. It absolutely sucks, but it isn’t reasonable to leave it up to the employees to decide when they go back. |
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Post by mom on May 25, 2020 1:37:27 GMT
I don't know if we are being unreasonable for thinking he should be able to continue collecting unemployment for another month or two or not. I think that is unreasonable. Our Government started a scheme called "job keeper" which is for those businesses who were forced to close because of the restrictions, they pay the employer money so they can keep paying the wages of people who cannot do their jobs. I'm a nurse and when they stopped all elective surgery due to the PPE shortage, we had no patients for me to look after...our hospital is small, & does some elective surgery only. At the very start there were a couple of days when there were no patients that I was at home and still got paid via the job keeper (a fancy new term for the temporary unemployment benefits). However after that, we did start to get some non surgical patients through, and a few urgent cases. So now there are patients and my job expects me to come and and care for them...I don't get to just say "sorry, I don't want to come in yet, I'll stay home and keep getting job keeper payments thanks" It might be nice, but the world doesn't work like that. If you have a job and a contract of employment and your boss wants you to work, then you have 2 options - go to work, or quit.
You don't get to have it both ways and have a job and think you can stay home and collect unemployment as well.
So yes, "another month or two" of staying home and getting paid unemployment when someone has a job they can go back to and the Government says they are allowed to do it...that is an unreasonable thing to expect. |
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Post by pjaye on May 25, 2020 1:41:37 GMT
Also there are MILLIONS of healthcare workers all over the planet who have newborns in their homes, and they all still went to work.
They didn't get a "choice" and there was way more risk to them than an office worker.
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Post by Merge on May 25, 2020 1:48:05 GMT
(This is not directed at you Skellington, just made a good jumping point). It also sucks if the governor of your state is making people go back to work in unsafe conditions. And making is the right word for what I want to say. If your business is open the when you don’t work you don’t get paid, and that’s not much of a real choice. "Making more" on unemployment is evidence that minimum wage is waaaaayyy too low, not that your unemployment was/is too much. If the state capitol isn't open for tours, the governor can go suck a nut as far as telling people to go out and be exposed. Nobody should be forced to go back to work in this state until the governor himself is out shaking hands with all the unmasked crowds. Until then he's jus asking people to die in an attempt to help his own re-election campaign. I don't really know how we went from "this is serious and people should take it seriously" to "let's re-open everything, and people can crowd in and wear masks or not as they choose, but it's not really a choice because if your job is open you should go back to work." |
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Post by Merge on May 25, 2020 1:49:56 GMT
Also there are MILLIONS of healthcare workers all over the planet who have newborns in their homes, and they all still went to work. They didn't get a "choice" and there was way more risk to them than an office worker. Do you imagine that he's going to be allowed to do his job cloaked in PPE? Also, like policemen and military, healthcare workers made a choice to be involved in a risky occupation. A guy who manages a party rental business made no such career choice (and neither did teachers, but I digress). But we're all supposed to go out and risk death because we can't tax billionaires. It wouldn't be fair. Fuck. That. Noise. |
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on May 25, 2020 1:56:26 GMT
I think it’s unreasonable to expect to keep receiving unemployment when he has a job he’s being asked to go back to. I think he can quit or find another job if he is uncomfortable with the current job.
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Post by Merge on May 25, 2020 1:57:53 GMT
By the way, this has been the point of my windmill-tilting this whole time. Here it is in living color.
You (general you) can go on about how people can choose to go out and choose to work if they want, but for all but the most privileged, it's not a choice. Many workers are being forced back to work in unsafe conditions to enrich billionaires and serve the wants of the privileged classes, who harp on about choice.
Just like with sex, it's only consensual if both people consent. If the partygoer consented to risk getting COVID but the guy setting up the party rentals did not, it wasn't a choice for him, was it? But he's expected to bend over and take it (excuse the graphic analogy) so company owner doesn't have to pay back his loan, we don't have to raise taxes on the Trump class, and spoiled princess can pretend everything is normal again.
It's absolutely disgusting to me that this is even being discussed by normal people. Say it with me: no one should have to risk death so you can have a party, a vacation, or an evening out. This shouldn't even be a question. People are fucking monsters.
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Post by dewryce on May 25, 2020 1:58:11 GMT
(This is not directed at you Skellington, just made a good jumping point). It also sucks if the governor of your state is making people go back to work in unsafe conditions. And making is the right word for what I want to say. If your business is open the when you don’t work you don’t get paid, and that’s not much of a real choice. "Making more" on unemployment is evidence that minimum wage is waaaaayyy too low, not that your unemployment was/is too much. If the state capitol isn't open for tours, the governor can go suck a nut as far as telling people to go out and be exposed. Nobody should be forced to go back to work in this state until the governor himself is out shaking hands with all the unmasked crowds. Until then he's jus asking people to die in an attempt to help his own re-election campaign. I don't really know how we went from "this is serious and people should take it seriously" to "let's re-open everything, and people can crowd in and wear masks or not as they choose, but it's not really a choice because if your job is open you should go back to work." Yes, the mental shift is stunning, and it’s not coming from the health experts. I’m all for reopening slowly and safely and with proper consideration to following the guidelines from the experts. And I’m not complaining about where that is occurring. But that’s not consistent across the country. It’s like we are living in two different worlds, experiencing two different are-openings. Also, I thought unemployment was that much higher for some people because they made a decision to make it even across the country in order to get the bill passed faster and the checks out quicker. Am I remembering incorrectly? I think everythine would still be bitching if most people hadn’t gotten their stimulus check yet. But there were 50 different unemployment pay formulas to consider so of course compromises had to be made. I agree that what it showed about our minimum wage isn’t good. But the people who need to recognize that, won’t. Hopefully we will vote them out in droves in November. |
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Post by Merge on May 25, 2020 1:58:43 GMT
I think it’s unreasonable to expect to keep receiving unemployment when he has a job he’s being asked to go back to. I think he can quit or find another job if he is uncomfortable with the current job. Oh, jesus fucking christ. This place is a goddamn nightmare. Let them eat cake. Let them get COVID. Are y'all monsters? Really? It would serve this country right if teachers rose up and quit en masse in August. Let's see y'all homeschool y'all's kids then. Because apparently in addition to being willing to take a bullet for your kids so you can have unimpeded access to weapons of war, we're also now supposed to risk a deadly disease to keep the wheels of capitalism turning and make sure you can have a happy fun time. |
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Post by pjaye on May 25, 2020 2:02:49 GMT
It's absolutely disgusting to me that this is even being discussed by normal people You can be as disgusted as you like - nothing you say changes my opinion in the slightest, as for "risky professions" - did you read all the stories of there not being enough PPE and medical workers going to work anyway? You don't think anyone needs to risk their lives for work? - of course, except for the cannon fodder of healthcare workers in case you need them to save yours. |
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Post by dewryce on May 25, 2020 2:04:11 GMT
I think it’s unreasonable to expect to keep receiving unemployment when he has a job he’s being asked to go back to. I think he can quit or find another job if he is uncomfortable with the current job. I’m not familiar with the OP’s situation. But we should recognize that the safe guidelines spelled out by our health experts may not be enforced in his state. If that’s the case, do you think it is reasonable to force him to go to work in unsafe conditions or lose his job? And everyone keeps saying “or get another job” like it’s a simple matter, an easy fix. With so much of the workforce having lost their jobs I highly doubt that is the case. I’m sure there are exceptions, but we don’t know enough about his situation to state it like it’s an easy done deal. I can see that it seems to be a small operation and it might be very possible for him to go in and work safely. But I don’t think we have enough information to say either way and everyone is assuming it’s fine. |
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Post by Merge on May 25, 2020 2:05:13 GMT
It's absolutely disgusting to me that this is even being discussed by normal people You can be as disgusted as you like - nothing you say changes my opinion in the slightest, as for "risky professions" - did you read all the stories of there not being enough PPE and medical workers going to work anyway? You don't think anyone needs to risk their lives for work? - of course, except for the cannon fodder of healthcare workers in case you need them to save yours. You are absolutely foul. Healthcare workers are getting PPE in some cases, and where they're not, I honestly hope they strike and start refusing to treat people. Do you imagine that a party sales representative is going to be allowed to stroll around in a mask and gown? Good god, the blind privilege is disgusting. If you don't have the good sense to be ashamed of yourself, I'm ashamed for you. Fucking monster. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on May 25, 2020 2:05:47 GMT
Also there are MILLIONS of healthcare workers all over the planet who have newborns in their homes, and they all still went to work. They didn't get a "choice" and there was way more risk to them than an office worker. This. Also we are NOT clothed in PPEs, trust me. I have a co-worker that just returned from maternity leave. She has been gone 10 wks, and now is coming back to work at the hospital. There are many many that do that daily. We get masks we wear all day, the same one, and gloves, gowns when we go in to a contact room. That's it. There have been plenty of episodes where I have worked with a pt, and THEN they decide to COVID test them after the fact. |
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on May 25, 2020 2:06:47 GMT
I think it’s unreasonable to expect to keep receiving unemployment when he has a job he’s being asked to go back to. I think he can quit or find another job if he is uncomfortable with the current job. Oh, jesus fucking christ. This place is a goddamn nightmare. Let them eat cake. Let them get COVID. Are y'all monsters? Really? It would serve this country right if teachers rose up and quit en masse in August. Let's see y'all homeschool y'all's kids then. Because apparently in addition to being willing to take a bullet for your kids, we're also now supposed to risk a deadly disease to keep the wheels of capitalism turning and make sure you can have a happy fun time. I agree, this place can be a “nightmare” sometimes when people go off the rails when someone shares an opinion they don’t agree with. The OP asked for opinions and I offered mine. I managed to share a thought with swearing and having a toddler tantrum. Maybe you wanna work on that. |
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Post by Merge on May 25, 2020 2:07:27 GMT
Also there are MILLIONS of healthcare workers all over the planet who have newborns in their homes, and they all still went to work. They didn't get a "choice" and there was way more risk to them than an office worker. This. Also we are NOT clothed in PPEs, trust me. I have a co-worker that just returned from maternity leave. She has been gone 10 wks, and now is coming back to work at the hospital. There are many many that do that daily. We get masks we wear all day, the same one, and gloves, gowns when we go in to a contact room. That's it. There have been plenty of episodes where I have worked with a pt, and THEN they decide to COVID test them after the fact. Well then you have the remedy - quit and find a new job if you don't like it. It's as simple as that. And honestly I hope healthcare workers do, if you're not getting what you need. This country deserves it for electing the buffoons who have made this mess. |
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Post by Merge on May 25, 2020 2:08:01 GMT
Oh, jesus fucking christ. This place is a goddamn nightmare. Let them eat cake. Let them get COVID. Are y'all monsters? Really? It would serve this country right if teachers rose up and quit en masse in August. Let's see y'all homeschool y'all's kids then. Because apparently in addition to being willing to take a bullet for your kids, we're also now supposed to risk a deadly disease to keep the wheels of capitalism turning and make sure you can have a happy fun time. I agree, this place can be a “nightmare” sometimes when people go off the rails when someone shares an opinion they don’t agree with. The OP asked for options and I offered mine. I managed to share a thought with swearing and having a toddler tantrum. Maybe you wanna work on that. I'm very sorry if my being upset about people dying offends you. Also, fuck all the way off. Your snide, condescending attitude towards people not as privileged as you is way more offensive than anything I could say in four letters. |
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