pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,528 
|
Post by pinklady on Nov 10, 2020 0:10:59 GMT
This is how it starts
|
|
janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
Posts: 5,633
|
Post by janeliz on Nov 10, 2020 0:15:58 GMT
I’m reading, from people smarter than I, that all of this is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. I hope that’s true.
|
|
|
|
Post by busy on Nov 10, 2020 0:20:06 GMT
I... think I am ok with this. NOT because I think there was any kind of voter fraud, but because I think there wasn't. I don't think that federal prosecutors are some kind of cabal who will do Trump's bidding. And I think because the orange monster and his minions are riling their base up with these baseless allegations, investigations that prove nothing was wrong could actually be helpful. Or will just devolve into "deep state corruption" and nothing can ever make them believe anything besides what comes out of Trump's mouth.
It's a waste of resources and shouldn't need to happen, but given the current state of affairs, I think it's not the worst thing in the world. To be clear, I think Barr is initiating this because he's Trump's lapdog and wants to make him happy. But the outcomes will validate the election and its results.
|
|
|
|
Post by cade387 on Nov 10, 2020 0:45:08 GMT
Barr is “authorizing them to pursue” but not ordering them to investigate? If I’m given authorization to do something that I didn’t request, am I required to do it?
|
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Nov 10, 2020 0:48:29 GMT
Almost half the country of those who voted thinks the Democrats stole the election for Biden. Almost HALF. What harm could an investigation do especially if there's no actual evidence? Won't that too come out? This time around isn't too unlike Bush vs Gore in 2000. It went all the way to the Supreme Court and we didn't officially know who our president was going to be until December 13, 2000. [Source: LA Times] Let them do their investigation...let them clear the air and make way for the new administration so it isn't formed under massive clouds of accusation.
Edited to better reflect my point, as peabay pointed out on page 2. |
|
|
|
Post by cbet on Nov 10, 2020 2:04:31 GMT
Almost half the country thinks the Democrats stole the election for Biden. Almost HALF. What harm could an investigation do especially if there's no actual evidence? Won't that too come out?
This time around isn't too unlike Bush vs Gore in 2000. It went all the way to the Supreme Court and we didn't officially know who our president was going to be until December 13, 2000. [Source: LA Times]
Let them do their investigation...let them clear the air and make way for the new administration so it isn't formed under massive clouds of accusation.
This is bullshit. In 2000, there was one state in dispute. One. And those vote totals were so close that nobody would ever really be sure who won, between the hanging chads and the pregnant chads and yadda yadda yadda. This election, it is multiple states and tens of thousands of votes. Even if an investigation is done and shows no fraud, the Trump supporters are not going to believe it. The Republicans are just trying to delay the state certifications enough that they can throw the naming of electors to the republican-controlled state legislatures and override the election that way. |
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 10, 2020 2:13:31 GMT
Almost half the country thinks the Democrats stole the election for Biden. Almost HALF. What harm could an investigation do especially if there's no actual evidence? Won't that too come out?
This time around isn't too unlike Bush vs Gore in 2000. It went all the way to the Supreme Court and we didn't officially know who our president was going to be until December 13, 2000. [Source: LA Times]
Let them do their investigation...let them clear the air and make way for the new administration so it isn't formed under massive clouds of accusation.
How about the Republicans in Congress and people close to him finally stand up to him and do what is right? Tell him this is ridiculous and he should stop. I don’t trust him and I don’t trust them. He says there was cheating? It is probably coming. |
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
|
Post by lizacreates on Nov 10, 2020 2:13:33 GMT
Almost half the country thinks the Democrats stole the election for Biden. Almost HALF. What harm could an investigation do especially if there's no actual evidence? Won't that too come out?
This time around isn't too unlike Bush vs Gore in 2000. It went all the way to the Supreme Court and we didn't officially know who our president was going to be until December 13, 2000. [Source: LA Times]
Let them do their investigation...let them clear the air and make way for the new administration so it isn't formed under massive clouds of accusation.
This is bullshit. In 2000, there was one state in dispute. One. And those vote totals were so close that nobody would ever really be sure who won, between the hanging chads and the pregnant chads and yadda yadda yadda. This election, it is multiple states and tens of thousands of votes. Even if an investigation is done and shows no fraud, the Trump supporters are not going to believe it. The Republicans are just trying to delay the state certifications enough that they can throw the naming of electors to the republican-controlled state legislatures and override the election that way. Yep. That’s it exactly. I posted this on Nov 1 on another thread: This is what’s anticipated Trump will do: (1) He will not concede; and (2) He will demand recounts in all the states where the results are close (via courts) and sue other states for perceived fraud. As I mentioned above, states have a deadline of Dec 8 to appoint electors. Trump will jeopardize this appointment by flooding the courts with these recount and fraud suits. Any one of these may reach the SC (like Bush v Gore). Why is it important for Trump to jeopardize that appointment? If Dec 8 comes and there is no clear winner in those states yet due to recounts, any state’s legislature can appoint any elector they wish to get the result they want. So, for example, a red state that is party to a suit but may have Biden as the presumptive winner of the popular vote in that state, its legislature can legally appoint electors for Trump instead to meet the Dec 8 deadline. To complicate matters, if its governor or secretary of state wants Biden electors, either can also appoint its set of electors so a state can end up with two sets (this happened in Hawaii link ). Congress, with our warring factions, will have to decide which set it will certify. |
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 10, 2020 2:19:42 GMT
This is NOT ANYTHING LIKE Bush/Gore.
Bush won by 537 votes, in ONE state.
This fuckface trump is trying to undermine ALL elections all because and he’s losing badly in quite a few states, with ZERO evidence of any fraud.
He’s claiming fraud and going to court to buy time to see if they can find anything in their delaying.
It’s bullshit.
|
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on Nov 10, 2020 2:22:10 GMT
I think most folks have decided to let him do his thing for a few days so he can see it’s going nowhere. (Like a baby with a tantrum.). I think that’s ok as long as he stays on the side of what he’s legally allowed to do. It’s not going to lead to anything.
|
|
|
|
Post by cbet on Nov 10, 2020 2:26:23 GMT
Oh, and if it is determined that states need to be investigated for voting fraud, then the votes for the house aND Senate need to be invalidated as well. Because a fraudulent vote is a fraudulent vote, right?
|
|
|
|
Post by scrappinheather on Nov 10, 2020 2:57:12 GMT
It is an extremely dangerous precedent for the DOJ to get involved. Republicans and Democrats were there watching every vote get counted. If they had evidence of fraud then the republicans should and have brought their evidence to federal court. Each time they have brought a lawsuit in this election, there has been no actual support to prove voter fraud. Bill Barr is a disgrace, liar, and sycophant for trump who is single handed my destroying the credibility of the DOJ. Let the challenges happen the way they have in every election. There is no need for DOJ involvement. I’m sorry republicans don’t like the results but this is called democracy. What trump, the DOJ and the republicans who can’t accept the results of a valid election are doing is dangerously undermining our faith in democracy. You can’t just say they cheated, without evidence, and kaboom that becomes true. I’m sick and tired of trump and the people who support him making baseless dangerous claims to undermine democracy. Just concede and let’s move forward. If you have evidence bring it to court as has been done in every other election, otherwise be quiet and concede.
|
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Nov 10, 2020 3:27:45 GMT
This is bullshit. In 2000, there was one state in dispute. One. And those vote totals were so close that nobody would ever really be sure who won, between the hanging chads and the pregnant chads and yadda yadda yadda. This election, it is multiple states and tens of thousands of votes. Even if an investigation is done and shows no fraud, the Trump supporters are not going to believe it. The Republicans are just trying to delay the state certifications enough that they can throw the naming of electors to the republican-controlled state legislatures and override the election that way. Yep. That’s it exactly. I posted this on Nov 1 on another thread: This is what’s anticipated Trump will do: (1) He will not concede; and (2) He will demand recounts in all the states where the results are close (via courts) and sue other states for perceived fraud. As I mentioned above, states have a deadline of Dec 8 to appoint electors. Trump will jeopardize this appointment by flooding the courts with these recount and fraud suits. Any one of these may reach the SC (like Bush v Gore). Why is it important for Trump to jeopardize that appointment? If Dec 8 comes and there is no clear winner in those states yet due to recounts, any state’s legislature can appoint any elector they wish to get the result they want. So, for example, a red state that is party to a suit but may have Biden as the presumptive winner of the popular vote in that state, its legislature can legally appoint electors for Trump instead to meet the Dec 8 deadline. To complicate matters, if its governor or secretary of state wants Biden electors, either can also appoint its set of electors so a state can end up with two sets (this happened in Hawaii link ). Congress, with our warring factions, will have to decide which set it will certify. This is extremely dangerous. I believe that if that happens-and I hope that it won’t-this country will explode. Biden won the electoral college and the popular vote. Trump would be the Fake President. I wouldn’t put anything past that man. He has no honor, no scruples, and no character. The fact that Covid is spiking dangerously and he is spending his time tweeting and coming up with hare-brained lawsuits tells you everything that you need to know about him. |
|
|
|
Post by keriwest on Nov 10, 2020 3:40:49 GMT
It probably won't change the outcome of the election, but if election fraud took place, we should all want it exposed so that steps can be taken to prevent it from happening ever again.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 10, 2020 4:04:32 GMT
This is Trump’s MO. Even in 2016 he said that he would only accept the result of the election if he won. He has been gearing up to claim fraud or a “rigged election” for months in case he lost. Notice that he is only claiming fraud in states that he lost by a close margin. I really can’t believe people are falling for this. Just go and read anything that explains what malignant narcissists would do in a situation like this and you will see what is going on.
|
|
|
|
Post by peano on Nov 10, 2020 4:13:27 GMT
It probably won't change the outcome of the election, but if election fraud took place, we should all want it exposed so that steps can be taken to prevent it from happening ever again. Election fraud did not take place except in the fevered delusional mind of The Thing. To proceed otherwise, is giving credence to yet another lie. Turn off Fox News. |
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
|
Post by lizacreates on Nov 10, 2020 4:13:34 GMT
This is extremely dangerous. I believe that if that happens-and I hope that it won’t-this country will explode. Biden won the electoral college and the popular vote. Trump would be the Fake President. I wouldn’t put anything past that man. He has no honor, no scruples, and no character. The fact that Covid is spiking dangerously and he is spending his time tweeting and coming up with hare-brained lawsuits tells you everything that you need to know about him. Yes. I don’t put anything past Trump at all. He’s obviously trying to get from the courts the wins the majority did not give him and if it means war, then it’ll be war. I’ve been reading about his lawsuits and at present the only one that may have a chance of being heard is PA. And even if PA ends up in the SC and they side with him, he’s still not getting 270. He has over a dozen suits already in five states, but so far, no evidence. Zip. Whatever they're presenting is concocted BS. What his allies are doing now is pressuring various state legislatures to “step up.” Well, we know what stepping up means. If it gets to that, heaven help us, there’ll be riots. There’s no way 76M people who voted for Biden will take that lying down. |
|
|
|
Post by sean&marysmommy on Nov 10, 2020 4:41:49 GMT
This is extremely dangerous. I believe that if that happens-and I hope that it won’t-this country will explode. Biden won the electoral college and the popular vote. Trump would be the Fake President. I wouldn’t put anything past that man. He has no honor, no scruples, and no character. The fact that Covid is spiking dangerously and he is spending his time tweeting and coming up with hare-brained lawsuits tells you everything that you need to know about him. Yes. I don’t put anything past Trump at all. He’s obviously trying to get from the courts the wins the majority did not give him and if it means war, then it’ll be war. I’ve been reading about his lawsuits and at present the only one that may have a chance of being heard is PA. And even if PA ends up in the SC and they side with him, he’s still not getting 270. He has over a dozen suits already in five states, but so far, no evidence. Zip. Whatever they're presenting is concocted BS. What his allies are doing now is pressuring various state legislatures to “step up.” Well, we know what stepping up means. If it gets to that, heaven help us, there’ll be riots. There’s no way 76M people who voted for Biden will take that lying down. Agree with everyone mentioning this fear...and it is terrifying. Ugh. 3 days of relief and today I'm back to feeling this tremendous weight on my chest. |
|
|
|
Post by epeanymous on Nov 10, 2020 4:45:57 GMT
I will never, ever, ever forgive a single person who defends this.
|
|
scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
|
Post by scrappinspidey2 on Nov 10, 2020 4:54:22 GMT
Can someone help me with this/ I have a coworker that I would now describe as a rabid President Trump fan. We have agreed to not discuss politics anymore even though initially I found it very educational. Now its just name calling and empty threats. Tonight she posted that PA has retracted their electoral votes and CNN has taken back AZ from the count as well. First off CNN is the site I use to check in on news. I find its format easier to read than most. If I find something I question then I go looking elsewhere. I don't take news seriously at first glance until backed up by other sources. That said, CNN has not called AZ for Biden. Fox did and still does, Politico Did and then retracted it, and I heard the AP called AZ for Biden. CNN still has it grayed out and has since election night.
I have no intention of arguing with her but I would like to know where this information is coming from? I can't find anything on any search in three search engines that backs up the PA thing...where do they come up with this stuff? I can't ask her as we agreed not to discuss it and quite frankly she has yet to give me a source even back when she wasn't so ramped up.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
|
Post by lizacreates on Nov 10, 2020 4:58:40 GMT
Can someone help me with this/ I have a coworker that I would now describe as a rabid President Trump fan. We have agreed to not discuss politics anymore even though initially I found it very educational. Now its just name calling and empty threats. Tonight she posted that PA has retracted their electoral votes and CNN has taken back AZ from the count as well. First off CNN is the site I use to check in on news. I find its format easier to read than most. If I find something I question then I go looking elsewhere. I don't take news seriously at first glance until backed up by other sources. That said, CNN has not called AZ for Biden. Fox did and still does, Politico Did and then retracted it, and I heard the AP called AZ for Biden. CNN still has it grayed out and has since election night. I have no intention of arguing with her but I would like to know where this information is coming from? I can't find anything on any search in three search engines that backs up the PA thing...where do they come up with this stuff? I can't ask her as we agreed not to discuss it and quite frankly she has yet to give me a source even back when she wasn't so ramped up. There are no "electoral votes" to retract. Electors don't vote until Dec 14. So I don't know what she means. AP is a reliable source because they've been calling elections since the 1800s. |
|
PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,743
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
|
Post by PLurker on Nov 10, 2020 5:13:40 GMT
It probably won't change the outcome of the election, but if election fraud took place, we should all want it exposed so that steps can be taken to prevent it from happening ever again. I agree if they had some legit evidence and not just bullshit rhetoric. If this flies just with random and multiple accusations as it seems to be, every election from here on out could be fought, dragged it or won by legal ease and not voters. "They cheated" tweets etc ain't evidence. |
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Nov 10, 2020 5:28:05 GMT
It probably won't change the outcome of the election, but if election fraud took place, we should all want it exposed so that steps can be taken to prevent it from happening ever again. I totally agree with you that any evidence of voter fraud should be thoroughly investigated. Now will you agree with me that the investigation should follow standing DOJ policies? Because the policy says any voter fraud investigations should be conducted after the electors officially vote the new president into office, in order to avoid affecting the outcome of the election. Bill Barr can investigate to his heart’s content after 12/8. Before that date, he’s just trying to throw the election to Trump. |
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
|
Post by lizacreates on Nov 10, 2020 5:54:03 GMT
DOJ official steps down over Barr's voter fraud investigation memoRichard Pilger, a Department of Justice official who oversees investigations of voter crimes, stepped down from his role Monday after Attorney General Bill Barr authorized U.S. attorneys to probe alleged elections fraud, the New York Times first reported. Why it matters: President Trump has refused to concede the election to President-elect Joe Biden, alleging a conspiracy of widespread voting fraud, but he has yet to provide relevant evidence. Pilger states in his email to colleagues, also obtained by the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, the new DOJ policy is "abrogating the forty-year old Non-Interference Policy for ballot fraud investigation in the period prior to elections becoming certified and uncontested." For the record: Pilger stated, "Having familiarized myself with the new policy and its ramifications … I must regretfully resign from my role as Director of the Election Crimes Branch." He has been director of the Election Crimes Branch of the Department of Justice since 2010 and will now "move to a nonsupervisory role working on corruption prosecutions," per the NYT.
|
|
TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
|
Post by TheOtherMeg on Nov 10, 2020 6:36:42 GMT
It's a waste of resources and shouldn't need to happen, but given the current state of affairs, I think it's not the worst thing in the world. To be clear, I think Barr is initiating this because he's Trump's lapdog and wants to make him happy. But the outcomes will validate the election and its results. I agree. This is where Trump has taken his followers, and they will only believe "facts" reported by a Trump stooge. Fox has bailed, so it's up to Barr to come up with a statement to release that gives the Trumpers permission to accept the reality the rest of the world has been celebrating for a few days now. Millions will be spent and then, during some brouhaha in the near future, Barr will very quietly release a report that validates the election. In the mean time, the Trump campaign is sending out several fundraising texts/emails PER DAY. The longer the campaign can keep the Trump faithful thinking they are supporting the fight to win a stolen election, the longer the campaign can keep fleecing the gullible. If they'd bother to read the fine print in the solicitations, at least half the donated money at this point is going to be used to bail the Trump Campaign out of debt, not to fund a "fair election." |
|
TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
|
Post by TheOtherMeg on Nov 10, 2020 6:57:26 GMT
Trump is a divisive president up for re-election, so OF COURSE more people were going make a point to vote, either for or against him, than in a "normal" election.
We're in the midst of a pandemic, so OF COURSE more people voted by mail than ever before.
Trump spent MONTHS telling people NOT to vote by mail. His faithful obviously did as they were told and voted in person whenever possible. Why in the world does it surprise anyone that the majority of mailed-in votes were obviously cast by people who don't believe a word that comes out of Trump's mouth (Dems & Libs -- Biden voters)?
|
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on Nov 10, 2020 9:52:32 GMT
All the handwringing I’m reading here is just giving power to a loser who doesn’t deserve it. He’s not going to prevail. Courts are throwing out his suits left and right. Even Fox News has abandoned this guy.
|
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Nov 10, 2020 11:18:53 GMT
Can someone help me with this/ I have a coworker that I would now describe as a rabid President Trump fan. We have agreed to not discuss politics anymore even though initially I found it very educational. Now its just name calling and empty threats. Tonight she posted that PA has retracted their electoral votes and CNN has taken back AZ from the count as well. First off CNN is the site I use to check in on news. I find its format easier to read than most. If I find something I question then I go looking elsewhere. I don't take news seriously at first glance until backed up by other sources. That said, CNN has not called AZ for Biden. Fox did and still does, Politico Did and then retracted it, and I heard the AP called AZ for Biden. CNN still has it grayed out and has since election night. I have no intention of arguing with her but I would like to know where this information is coming from? I can't find anything on any search in three search engines that backs up the PA thing...where do they come up with this stuff? I can't ask her as we agreed not to discuss it and quite frankly she has yet to give me a source even back when she wasn't so ramped up. Who knows? There are many crazy RW programs out there, like Michael Savage. They just make stuff up and his base believes it. If you can, I would give her a very wide berth. If not, know that she is spouting nonsense and refuse to discuss politics-for your own sanity. |
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Nov 10, 2020 11:39:51 GMT
You know, it occurs to me that Republicans, by indulging Trump and his ridiculous lawsuits, are basically calling election officials, many of them Republicans in red states, either incompetent or corrupt. Is that what they really think?
|
|
TankTop
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1,871
Posts: 4,771
Location: On the couch...
Jun 28, 2014 1:52:46 GMT
|
Post by TankTop on Nov 10, 2020 12:16:48 GMT
I am looking forward to the investigation and the results... not that it would make any difference to Trumpsters.
I look forward to any time Trump is proven wrong.
|
|
