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Post by hop2 on Nov 18, 2020 20:36:47 GMT
It means the ‘wider’ neo nazi movement was always using Trump and his cult to further their own purposes. And the Trumpers who agree with them, who fit in with them will be absorbed ( changed like the butterfly ) and the rest will be discarded when no longer needed.
Some dark shit for a cartoon
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Nov 18, 2020 20:38:16 GMT
I looked at it quickly at first and didn't even notice the MAGA hat or the Neo Nazi symbolism. After thinking about the responses it looks like someone took an innocent caterpillar to butterfly cartoon and photo shopped on the MAGA hat and Nazi symbol. You're right! This is the original.So I think the original cartoon is cute (and an obvious message). The photoshopped stuff, IDK. I like my symbolism to be a little more straightforward. ETA - the one I linked uses suppose instead of supposed, so at least the nazi who photoshopped the cartoon corrected the grammar!
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Nov 18, 2020 20:39:54 GMT
busy pixiechick and anyone else who isn't aware, there are some useful guides to other nazi and hate symbols here www.adl.org/hate-symbols?cat_id%5B151%5D=151Most of them have their origins elsewhere and have been co-opted by hate groups. I think its good to be aware of their potential meanings, because as groups become less cautious they start to display these things publicly, but there's *just* enough deniability that they can pretend it's to celebrate their heritage, or that the numbers represent meaningful dates. But we see them.
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Post by elaine on Nov 18, 2020 20:53:11 GMT
I looked at it quickly at first and didn't even notice the MAGA hat or the Neo Nazi symbolism. After thinking about the responses it looks like someone took an innocent caterpillar to butterfly cartoon and photo shopped on the MAGA hat and Nazi symbol. You're right! This is the original.So I think the original cartoon is cute (and an obvious message). The photoshopped stuff, IDK. I like my symbolism to be a little more straightforward. I think that the symbolism is straightforward, but I personally think they switched the players so that they were more easily camouflaged. If it were easier to hang a camouflaged Nazi symbol (the sonnenrad) on the caterpillar and MAGA on the butterfly, that would make more sense in terms of the 1930’s Nazi party evolving/maturing into the MAGA party. I don’t think the cartoon is as straightforward when you try to imply MAGA changing into Nazi’s, rather than the reverse (people, in the post-WWII world, are supposed to change from being Nazis into something else more politically correct - MAGA - if we still hold those values).
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Post by AussieMeg on Nov 18, 2020 22:03:58 GMT
@seek01 I appreciate your new profile pic. Did you change it for NAIDOC last week?
And now I want to try activating some almonds!
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Post by tara on Nov 18, 2020 22:26:16 GMT
busy pixiechick and anyone else who isn't aware, there are some useful guides to other nazi and hate symbols here www.adl.org/hate-symbols?cat_id%5B151%5D=151Most of them have their origins elsewhere and have been co-opted by hate groups. I think its good to be aware of their potential meanings, because as groups become less cautious they start to display these things publicly, but there's *just* enough deniability that they can pretend it's to celebrate their heritage, or that the numbers represent meaningful dates. But we see them. Good to know but I feel like I want to take a mental shower after seeing all those images.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Nov 18, 2020 22:33:59 GMT
I looked at it quickly at first and didn't even notice the MAGA hat or the Neo Nazi symbolism. After thinking about the responses it looks like someone took an innocent caterpillar to butterfly cartoon and photo shopped on the MAGA hat and Nazi symbol. You're right! This is the original.So I think the original cartoon is cute (and an obvious message). The photoshopped stuff, IDK. I like my symbolism to be a little more straightforward. ETA - the one I linked uses suppose instead of supposed, so at least the nazi who photoshopped the cartoon corrected the grammar! I've found one that appears to be even older from January 2016. Looks like this might be the original form:
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Nov 18, 2020 22:36:20 GMT
busy pixiechick and anyone else who isn't aware, there are some useful guides to other nazi and hate symbols here www.adl.org/hate-symbols?cat_id%5B151%5D=151Most of them have their origins elsewhere and have been co-opted by hate groups. I think its good to be aware of their potential meanings, because as groups become less cautious they start to display these things publicly, but there's *just* enough deniability that they can pretend it's to celebrate their heritage, or that the numbers represent meaningful dates. But we see them. Good to know but I feel like I want to take a mental shower after seeing all those images. I know! Horrible stuff. There was a recent furore on British TV about a series where they invited members of the public to do woodworking a bit like the Bake Off, and one of the contestants was absolutely covered in tattoos, including all over his face. He somehow claimed that the number '88' was to remember his father who had died in 1988, and was 'outed' among other things when his father popped up alive and well. www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54628712
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Post by gar on Nov 18, 2020 22:42:33 GMT
Good to know but I feel like I want to take a mental shower after seeing all those images. I know! Horrible stuff. There was a recent furore on British TV about a series where they invited members of the public to do woodworking a bit like the Bake Off, and one of the contestants was absolutely covered in tattoos, including all over his face. He somehow claimed that the number '88' was to remember his father who had died in 1988, and was 'outed' among other things when his father popped up alive and well. www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54628712I hadn’t seen that! Wow!
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Post by gar on Nov 18, 2020 22:42:54 GMT
Good to know but I feel like I want to take a mental shower after seeing all those images. I know! Horrible stuff. There was a recent furore on British TV about a series where they invited members of the public to do woodworking a bit like the Bake Off, and one of the contestants was absolutely covered in tattoos, including all over his face. He somehow claimed that the number '88' was to remember his father who had died in 1988, and was 'outed' among other things when his father popped up alive and well. www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54628712I hadn’t seen that! Wow!
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Post by pjaye on Nov 19, 2020 0:00:00 GMT
Interesting, although I was hoping to get people's input just to the image without them knowing all of the other information. The background is that the poster is an Australian TV chef with completely whacked out ideas, he's a covid denier and an anti-vaxxer. He has some really dangerous ideas about nutrition as well...he famously came up with a paleo diet for babies in a cookbook which contained a recipe for both broth to give BABIES instead of milk. That book got pulled. He's also a Trump supporter (enough said really). I absolutely think he should have been shut down long before this. Then the other day he posted that cartoon and then the shit hit the fan, the word that was used in most of the media I saw in relation to this image was - anti-Semitic. He was about to appear on a reality show and he got pulled from that, every brand/sponsor associated with him has backed out, shops are taking all of his products off the shelves including cookbook, cookware, vitamins etc. All saying they don't agree with his view - which personally I feel is long over due. Then he "apologised" claiming he had no idea what the imagery in the cartoon was and had no clue what a "neo-nazi' is and had to google it! I thought it would be impossible not to know this, especially someone with his beliefs. It also begs the question, why would someone post this if they didn't understand they symbolism, and if it was all "peace and love" then why not post the original version and not seek out the version with the Trump hat and weird symbol? I was interested to see if anyone could look at at image and not have a negative association? Also interesting that no-one here used the word anti-Semitic, because that seems to be the trigger word here that finally got everyone to back away from this nut job. Here's the whole story
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Post by hop2 on Nov 19, 2020 0:10:04 GMT
Interesting, although I was hoping to get people's input just to the image without them knowing all of the other information. The background is that the poster is an Australian TV chef with completely whacked out ideas, he's a covid denier and an anti-vaxxer. He has some really dangerous ideas about nutrition as well...he famously came up with a paleo diet for babies in a cookbook which contained a recipe for both broth to give BABIES instead of milk. That book got pulled. He's also a Trump supporter (enough said really). I absolutely think he should have been shut down long before this. Then the other day he posted that cartoon and then the shit hit the fan, the word that was used in most of the media I saw in relation to this image was - antiemetic. He was about to appear on a reality show and he got pulled from that, every brand/sponsor associated with him has backed out, shops are taking all of his products off the shelves including cookbook, cookware, vitamins etc. All saying they don't agree with his view - which personally I feel is long over due. Then he "apologised" claiming he had no idea what the imagery in the cartoon was and had no clue what a "neo-nazi' is and had to google it! I thought it would be impossible not to know this, especially someone with his beliefs. It also begs the question, why would someone post this if they didn't understand they symbolism, and if it was all "peace and love" then why not post the original version and not seek out the version with the Trump hat and weird symbol? I was interested to see if anyone could look at at image and not have a negative association? Also interesting that no-one here used the word antiemetic, because that seems to be the trigger word here that finally got everyone to back away from this nut job. Here's the whole storyAntiemetic or Antisemitic?
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Post by pjaye on Nov 19, 2020 0:40:55 GMT
Antiemetic or Antisemitic? Ha! Obviously anti-Semitic! Damn spell check, I didn't even pick up the change - or it's the nurse coming out in me!
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 19, 2020 0:54:03 GMT
It looks to my untrained eye that the cartoonist is suggesting that MAGA evolves/devolves into Nazi-ism.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,931
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Nov 19, 2020 1:14:32 GMT
You're right! This is the original.So I think the original cartoon is cute (and an obvious message). The photoshopped stuff, IDK. I like my symbolism to be a little more straightforward. ETA - the one I linked uses suppose instead of supposed, so at least the nazi who photoshopped the cartoon corrected the grammar! I've found one that appears to be even older from January 2016. Looks like this might be the original form:
Isn't the correct grammar, supposed to... not suppose to? or just I suppose? Just wondering?
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Post by AussieMeg on Nov 19, 2020 1:19:20 GMT
Isn't the correct grammar, supposed to... not suppose to? or just I suppose? Just wondering? I thought the same - I have always used "We are supposed to" not "We are suppose to"
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Nov 19, 2020 13:09:40 GMT
I've found one that appears to be even older from January 2016. Looks like this might be the original form:
Isn't the correct grammar, supposed to... not suppose to? or just I suppose? Just wondering? Yes. The older cartoon I found without the MAGA hat and the Nazi symbol had suppose - the incorrect word. The person who photoshopped the hat and symbol also changed the word to supposed - the correct version. Neo-nazis don’t mind showing their evil souls to the world, but they don’t want to be seen using poor grammar! AussieMeg, I need you to see this too so you know I know the difference!
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ellaknits
Full Member
Posts: 186
Mar 17, 2020 22:21:56 GMT
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Post by ellaknits on Nov 19, 2020 13:26:15 GMT
Gosh when I looked at it the first time, I missed both the hat and the symbol - I hadn't seen that symbol before and I didn't know what it means. Obviously I know what the hat means. But I just glossed over both on the first pass - I've seen that cartoon lots of times, that must be why.
Re: the story above and the 88, I do know what that means. Interesting how if you don't know what a certain symbol means though, it's just sort of lost on you.
UGH.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,563
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Nov 19, 2020 16:21:01 GMT
Interesting, although I was hoping to get people's input just to the image without them knowing all of the other information. I honestly had no idea that was a Nazi symbol on the butterfly. At first glance I didn't see the red magat hat on the caterpillar but once I did, I thought it was evolving from being a magat to a "beautiful" butterfly. I also thought it was weird that the butterfly was all dark/black instead of colorful. The real gist of the cartoon went over my head until I read all the other responses.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Nov 19, 2020 16:54:33 GMT
He’s been making our newspapers too. Yeah, right........ He drew the cartoon and didn't pick the symbolism? That's just crazy.
Now if he just shared it, yeah why would you assume he knew what it was when most of us here didn't even notice the symbols at first glance?
I didn't notice the hat, or the symbol on the butterfly. I was first taken aback by the fact the butterfly was all black. You rarely see that in analogies using caterpillar metamorphosis to demonstrate life situation. Usually it's very colorful and bright
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Nov 19, 2020 17:04:55 GMT
What do you think think this cartoon/meme means? How do you interpret it? Could it be looking at extremists survival? Trumpsters vs BLM (the black butterfly just stood out to me). Then again I don't equate neo nazis with BLM but political cartoons usually twist things.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Nov 19, 2020 17:09:15 GMT
That's incredibly offensive -- can you give more context on who posted it? The person who posted it is a former Australian 'celebrity chef' turned conspiracy theorist. I assume you're talking about Pete Evans? I love MKR...
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Post by KiwiJo on Nov 19, 2020 17:41:19 GMT
He’s been making our newspapers too. Yeah, right........ He drew the cartoon and didn't pick the symbolism? That's just crazy.
Now if he just shared it, yeah why would you assume he knew what it was when most of us here didn't even notice the symbols at first glance?
I didn't notice the hat, or the symbol on the butterfly. I was first taken aback by the fact the butterfly was all black. You rarely see that in analogies using caterpillar metamorphosis to demonstrate life situation. Usually it's very colorful and bright
Why would I assume that he knew what it was? Because when he first published the cartoon one commenter wrote: “The symbol on the butterfly is a representation of the black sun lol," Evans replied: “I was waiting for someone to see that."
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Nov 19, 2020 18:06:20 GMT
I am actually really surprised at the number of people here who didn't recognise the symbol. Or at least if it's a symbol you don't recognise, wouldn't you look it up? Try and find out what it means in case you're accidentally sharing something awful?
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Post by pierogi on Nov 19, 2020 18:14:00 GMT
It means the ‘wider’ neo nazi movement was always using Trump and his cult to further their own purposes. And the Trumpers who agree with them, who fit in with them will be absorbed ( changed like the butterfly ) and the rest will be discarded when no longer needed. Some dark shit for a cartoon Nailed it. It's a pro-Nazi cartoon. The MAGA part was always the pupa, the first unconscious step into the real "awakening." The White Power movement sees the next step as natural, ie, "We're supposed to." As people move onto Nazi-friendly platforms like Parler and sites like Stormfront and Breitbart get mainstreamed, and concepts like Holocaust denial, "white genocide," and eugenics are increasingly accepted, the journey from caterpillar into "evolved" Nazi is complete.
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Post by elaine on Nov 19, 2020 20:01:32 GMT
What do you think think this cartoon/meme means? How do you interpret it? Could it be looking at extremists survival? Trumpsters vs BLM (the black butterfly just stood out to me). Then again I don't equate neo nazis with BLM but political cartoons usually twist things. Nazis = White Supremacist Theory/Doctrine = Whites with Blue Eyes and Blonde Hair are the Master Race The Butterfly in this cartoon has nothing remotely connected with BLM. It uses a Nazi symbol which views Blacks as being clearly an inferior race. The only political cartoonist who would try to connect the two would be one who didn’t know much about Nazis. Sonnenrad = Black Sun = Nazi symbol. Nothing to do with BLM and actually antithetical to it, because Nazis & new-Nazis would state that black lives actually don’t matter at all.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Nov 19, 2020 20:14:11 GMT
Could it be looking at extremists survival? Trumpsters vs BLM (the black butterfly just stood out to me). Then again I don't equate neo nazis with BLM but political cartoons usually twist things. Nazis = White Supremacist Theory/Doctrine = Whites with Blue Eyes and Blonde Hair are the Master Race The Butterfly in this cartoon has nothing remotely connected with BLM. It uses a Nazi symbol which views Blacks as being clearly an inferior race. The only political cartoonist who would try to connect the two would be one who didn’t know much about Nazis. Sonnenrad = Black Sun = Nazi symbol. Nothing to do with BLM and actually antithetical to it, because Nazis & new-Nazis would state that black lives actually don’t matter at all. Yes I know.. I said the two aren't connected BUT when I first saw the cartoon, without knowing or even noticing that black sun symbol, all I saw was a black butterfly and a caterpillar. I was trying to figure out WHY an all black butterfly. The only nazi symbol I recognize is the swastika. I was just sort of talking through my different thought processes on what the cartoon might have meant at first glance.
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Post by hockeyfan06 on Nov 19, 2020 20:14:44 GMT
we're constantly evolving? for the worse with some...
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JustTricia
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,829
Location: Indianapolis
Jul 2, 2014 17:12:39 GMT
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Post by JustTricia on Nov 19, 2020 20:43:57 GMT
I am actually really surprised at the number of people here who didn't recognise the symbol. Or at least if it's a symbol you don't recognise, wouldn't you look it up? Try and find out what it means in case you're accidentally sharing something awful? Since I answered I didn’t know what it was I’ll answer this. I saw a MAGA hat and a butterfly with what looked like a bloodshot eye as a design. Never crossed my mind that it was anything other than a design so there would be no reason to look it up. Now that I read the comments I can see how it has impressions of a swastika, but I didn’t see that before. I don’t Google every pattern I see to see if there is something evil in it before I post it online.
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Post by papersilly on Nov 19, 2020 20:56:12 GMT
we're constantly evolving? for the worse with some... more like devolving for them.
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