rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,661
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
|
Post by rodeomom on Nov 22, 2020 18:11:15 GMT
Do the young people marry young? Are they pressured to marry? Is your niece being pressured to marry? What happens to a woman who can not have children? I find this so interesting.
|
|
|
Post by epeanymous on Nov 22, 2020 18:14:55 GMT
I watched this a while ago, as did my fourteen-year-old, and we thought it was excellent. I have read interviews with the woman who wrote the memoir; I think the differences between her actual life and the show are interesting as well.
We’re reform Jews, but I lived in Williamsburg so the ultra-Orthodox community is familiar.
|
|
|
Post by lemondrop on Nov 22, 2020 18:36:53 GMT
Great thread! I watched the series when it first came out and enjoyed it - always interesting to see other lifestyles and viewpoints.
|
|
|
Post by peano on Nov 22, 2020 18:44:25 GMT
Thank you, Elaine; this is very interesting! I’m wondering what it’s like when you visit-since you are Reform. Does her community accept the other sects, or do they proselytize? I so hope that your niece gets to get PT training! Jews don’t proselytize.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 18:48:13 GMT
Thank you, Elaine; this is very interesting! I’m wondering what it’s like when you visit-since you are Reform. Does her community accept the other sects, or do they proselytize? I so hope that your niece gets to get PT training! Jews, as an overall, don’t proselytize - with one exception: the Lubavitchers. Now, where it is different from Christian proselytizing is that they have no interest in converting non-Jews to Judaism. They proselytize to other Jews to get them to be more observant. For example, there was a newspaper article a number of years ago about the young Jewish Lubavitcher men who would go around larger cities, including Portland, Oregon, and seek out Jewish men in office buildings and on street corners. They would bring extra sets of tefillin and offer to lead the man/men in using them and praying. Women hand out pairs of candles to Jewish women and ask that they be lit on Shabbat. In Jerusalem they have tables set up in some tourist areas, seeking to get Jewish tourists to just step up their observances of the 613 laws a little more. Just as in other religions, the sects are full of judgement about the other sects. Even within ultra-orthodox sects - they judge each other. Once when I was visiting in Israel, my sister was complaining of how the women in another sect were judging her because Lubavitcher women can wear normal-looking hose/tights. In some sects, that is seen as immodest and women should wear thick obvious tights - seams up the back is good. Reform Jews judge the restrictions the more conservative sects place on members and most find keeping kosher silly/stupid. Conservative and orthodox sects think that Reform Jews are lazy and/or not observant Jews. It is similar to some of the in-fighting amongst Christian sects - “Mormons aren’t real Christians,” “Catholics are crazy for not using birth control,” “Southern Baptists are misogynistic,” etc. There is a joke that Moishe tells in Unorthodox that reflects this: there is a man who lives alone on an island and builds 2 synagogues and then is showing them to another man who visits. The visitor asks why he built the second synagogue 🕍 and he replies, with a sneer, “oh, I would never go to *that* synagogue!”
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 18:48:59 GMT
Thank you, Elaine; this is very interesting! I’m wondering what it’s like when you visit-since you are Reform. Does her community accept the other sects, or do they proselytize? I so hope that your niece gets to get PT training! Jews don’t proselytize. Except to other Jews and only the Lubavitchers.
|
|
|
Post by JavaJones on Nov 22, 2020 18:50:28 GMT
Thank you, Elaine, for sharing your knowledge and family experiences with Orthodox Judaism. I am not Jewish, but have always been interested in learning more about the Orthodox communities in the US. I watched Unorthodox in the Spring and thought it was excellent, and now have the book on my list. It lead me down a rabbit hole to learn more about the various Orthodox communities in the US and abroad. I found a few documentaries that I thought were also excellent, some on Netflix and others on YouTube (although the YT docs are best viewed w/o ads if you have a YT membership): One of Us--Netflix doc that profiles three people and their experiences in leaving their Orthodox communities in Brooklyn. My heart broke for them all, especially the young woman trying to keep her kids after leaving an abusive marriage: One of Us
Strictly Kosher--BBC three part doc about the Orthodox community in Manchester, England, the 2nd largest Orthodox community in the UK after London. Interesting to see the combo of British and Orthodox life. Loved the Polish man who was the only member of his family to escape the Holocaust. Heartbreaking and touching. Strictly Kosher
A Match Made in Heaven--Israeli three part doc about matchmaking and marriage in Orthodox communities in Israel. English subtitles, so get ready to read I found this one to be really interesting, the filmmakers follow both men and women as they navigate the matchmaking process and expectations for men and women in Orthodox Israeli society. Touches on the issues of work and study, divorce, love and expectations. Really fascinating glimpse into the matchmaking process. A Match Made in Heaven
|
|
|
Post by peano on Nov 22, 2020 18:51:07 GMT
Except to other Jews and only the Lubavitchers. Oy, the second i hit send, I knew my response would be too superficial. Thanks for the correction.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 18:52:09 GMT
Do the young people marry young? Are they pressured to marry? Is your niece being pressured to marry? What happens to a woman who can not have children? I find this so interesting. Yes, they are pressured to marry young. Yes, my nieces all feel pressure to marry. Since they aren’t sexually active before marriage, women don’t usually find out that they can’t have children until after marriage. Infertility treatment is supported. Adoption is okay if you can’t have biological children.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 18:53:49 GMT
Except to other Jews and only the Lubavitchers. Oy, the second i hit send, I knew my response would be too superficial. Thanks for the correction. ❤️ You get two Jews in a discussion and you then have at least 3 opinions! 😜 It is very different than the Christian view of proselytizing.
|
|
|
Post by peano on Nov 22, 2020 18:55:22 GMT
Oy, the second i hit send, I knew my response would be too superficial. Thanks for the correction. ❤️ You get two Jews in a discussion and you then have at least 3 opinions! 😜 It is very different than the Christian view of proselytizing. Haha! One of THE best things about being a Jew.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 18:55:46 GMT
Thank you, Elaine, for sharing your knowledge and family experiences with Orthodox Judaism. I am not Jewish, but have always been interested in learning more about the Orthodox communities in the US. I watched Unorthodox in the Spring and thought it was excellent, and now have the book on my list. It lead me down a rabbit hole to learn more about the various Orthodox communities in the US and abroad. I found a few documentaries that I thought were also excellent, some on Netflix and others on YouTube (although the YT docs are best viewed w/o ads if you have a YT membership): (Netflix doc that profiles three people and their experiences in leaving their Orthodox communities in Brooklyn. My heart broke for them all, especially the young woman trying to keep her kids after leaving an abusive marriage): One of Us
(BBC three part doc about the Orthodox community in Manchester, England, the 2nd largest Orthodox community in the UK after London. Interesting to see the combo of British and Orthodox life. Loved the Polish man who was the only member of his family to escape the Holocaust. Heartbreaking and touching) Strictly Kosher
(Israeli three part doc about matchmaking and marriage in Orthodox communities in Israel. English subtitles, so get ready to read I found this one to be really interesting, the filmmakers follow both men and women as they navigate the matchmaking process and expectations for men and women in Orthodox Israeli society. Touches on the issues of work and study, divorce, love and expectations. Really fascinating glimpse into the matchmaking process). A Match Made in Heaven
THANK YOU! I will watch all of these. ❤️
|
|
|
Post by Neisey on Nov 22, 2020 18:59:57 GMT
I have read the book and watched the series. I will look into the other series mentioned.
I’ve always been an avid reader and as a teen thought that the Jewish traditions and observances for holidays sounded so interesting. Not much chance of me converting for holidays lol. I was raised Catholic but I protested against religion at a young age (finally convinced my parents at age 12 that religion was not for me.)
Thanks to those sharing their experiences and insights. It’s all very interesting.
|
|
|
Post by scrapmaven on Nov 22, 2020 19:06:14 GMT
I was raised reformed, but in my early college years I spent a bit of time w/ a chassidic rabbi and his family. He was a very down to earth person and very approachable. He heads a group of people who help rescue Jews who have joined cults. Each shabbat(sabbath) I would be invited for lunch. There would be single men at the other end of table. I was too naive to recognize that my rabbi was trying to find my husband. HA! This rabbi was more spiritual than other rabbis, due to his sect. However, I couldn't fathom being told how to dress or sitting behind a black curtain during worship services. His wife was a psychotherapist w/her masters degree and she worked part time. His children were encouraged to go to college. I wasn't considered truly Jewish, because I was not ultra-orthodox. Jews will never try and convert a non-Jew. However, Chassidic Jews don't view reformed Jews as truly Jewish. So, they will try to encourage us to join their sect.
I was raised that there is heaven. While there is no hell, there is a place call Gehenna. It's like jail or a halfway house for the soul. You go there to make amends for your sins, if you're done some of the big ones. Then you move to heaven. Truly evil people turn to dust when they die. Again, ask 10 rabbis and you'll get 11 answers. YMMV. I have no idea what really happens. When I get there I'll let you know.
|
|
peaname
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,389
Aug 16, 2014 23:15:53 GMT
|
Post by peaname on Nov 22, 2020 20:20:15 GMT
I enjoyed the show. I have the book on my to be read list.
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on Nov 22, 2020 20:24:32 GMT
Thank you, Elaine, for sharing your knowledge and family experiences with Orthodox Judaism. I am not Jewish, but have always been interested in learning more about the Orthodox communities in the US. I watched Unorthodox in the Spring and thought it was excellent, and now have the book on my list. It lead me down a rabbit hole to learn more about the various Orthodox communities in the US and abroad. I found a few documentaries that I thought were also excellent, some on Netflix and others on YouTube (although the YT docs are best viewed w/o ads if you have a YT membership): One of Us--Netflix doc that profiles three people and their experiences in leaving their Orthodox communities in Brooklyn. My heart broke for them all, especially the young woman trying to keep her kids after leaving an abusive marriage: One of Us
Strictly Kosher--BBC three part doc about the Orthodox community in Manchester, England, the 2nd largest Orthodox community in the UK after London. Interesting to see the combo of British and Orthodox life. Loved the Polish man who was the only member of his family to escape the Holocaust. Heartbreaking and touching. Strictly Kosher
A Match Made in Heaven--Israeli three part doc about matchmaking and marriage in Orthodox communities in Israel. English subtitles, so get ready to read I found this one to be really interesting, the filmmakers follow both men and women as they navigate the matchmaking process and expectations for men and women in Orthodox Israeli society. Touches on the issues of work and study, divorce, love and expectations. Really fascinating glimpse into the matchmaking process. A Match Made in Heaven
I watched One of Us and found it heartbreaking, too. I'll look into the other two - thanks! Thanks for your explanations and sharing your sister's story, elaine. I do think it is wonderful that you have been able to have a strong relationship with your nieces and nephew. It was through Sex and the City when Charlotte went through her conversion that I learned proselytizing isn't part of the religion.
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Nov 22, 2020 20:47:30 GMT
Thank you, Elaine; this is very interesting! I’m wondering what it’s like when you visit-since you are Reform. Does her community accept the other sects, or do they proselytize? I so hope that your niece gets to get PT training! Jews, as an overall, don’t proselytize - with one exception: the Lubavitchers. Now, where it is different from Christian proselytizing is that they have no interest in converting non-Jews to Judaism. They proselytize to other Jews to get them to be more observant. For example, there was a newspaper article a number of years ago about the young Jewish Lubavitcher men who would go around larger cities, including Portland, Oregon, and seek out Jewish men in office buildings and on street corners. They would bring extra sets of tefillin and offer to lead the man/men in using them and praying. Women hand out pairs of candles to Jewish women and ask that they be lit on Shabbat. In Jerusalem they have tables set up in some tourist areas, seeking to get Jewish tourists to just step up their observances of the 613 laws a little more. Just as in other religions, the sects are full of judgement about the other sects. Even within ultra-orthodox sects - they judge each other. Once when I was visiting in Israel, my sister was complaining of how the women in another sect were judging her because Lubavitcher women can wear normal-looking hose/tights. In some sects, that is seen as immodest and women should wear thick obvious tights - seams up the back is good. Reform Jews judge the restrictions the more conservative sects place on members and most find keeping kosher silly/stupid. Conservative and orthodox sects think that Reform Jews are lazy and/or not observant Jews. It is similar to some of the in-fighting amongst Christian sects - “Mormons aren’t real Christians,” “Catholics are crazy for not using birth control,” “Southern Baptists are misogynistic,” etc. There is a joke that Moishe tells in Unorthodox that reflects this: there is a man who lives alone on an island and builds 2 synagogues and then is showing them to another man who visits. The visitor asks why he built the second synagogue 🕍 and he replies, with a sneer, “oh, I would never go to *that* synagogue!” Makes sense. I’m always curious about interactions between conservative and not-as-conservative folks. Thank you, Elaine.
|
|
paigepea
Drama Llama
Enter your message here...
Posts: 5,609
Location: BC, Canada
Jun 26, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
|
Post by paigepea on Nov 22, 2020 20:50:09 GMT
I watched it a while back and loved it. There is another series that I watch "Shtisel. The actress is in both. Shtisl has a new season coming out soon.
|
|
paigepea
Drama Llama
Enter your message here...
Posts: 5,609
Location: BC, Canada
Jun 26, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
|
Post by paigepea on Nov 22, 2020 20:51:56 GMT
Thank you, Elaine, for sharing your knowledge and family experiences with Orthodox Judaism. I am not Jewish, but have always been interested in learning more about the Orthodox communities in the US. I watched Unorthodox in the Spring and thought it was excellent, and now have the book on my list. It lead me down a rabbit hole to learn more about the various Orthodox communities in the US and abroad. I found a few documentaries that I thought were also excellent, some on Netflix and others on YouTube (although the YT docs are best viewed w/o ads if you have a YT membership): One of Us--Netflix doc that profiles three people and their experiences in leaving their Orthodox communities in Brooklyn. My heart broke for them all, especially the young woman trying to keep her kids after leaving an abusive marriage: One of Us
Strictly Kosher--BBC three part doc about the Orthodox community in Manchester, England, the 2nd largest Orthodox community in the UK after London. Interesting to see the combo of British and Orthodox life. Loved the Polish man who was the only member of his family to escape the Holocaust. Heartbreaking and touching. Strictly Kosher
A Match Made in Heaven--Israeli three part doc about matchmaking and marriage in Orthodox communities in Israel. English subtitles, so get ready to read I found this one to be really interesting, the filmmakers follow both men and women as they navigate the matchmaking process and expectations for men and women in Orthodox Israeli society. Touches on the issues of work and study, divorce, love and expectations. Really fascinating glimpse into the matchmaking process. A Match Made in Heaven
Thank you. We have a spent 2 weeks in Manchester and spent time eating at kosher restaurants. I will check out that show.
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Nov 23, 2020 0:25:17 GMT
Thank you, Elaine, for sharing your knowledge and family experiences with Orthodox Judaism. I am not Jewish, but have always been interested in learning more about the Orthodox communities in the US. I watched Unorthodox in the Spring and thought it was excellent, and now have the book on my list. It lead me down a rabbit hole to learn more about the various Orthodox communities in the US and abroad. I found a few documentaries that I thought were also excellent, some on Netflix and others on YouTube (although the YT docs are best viewed w/o ads if you have a YT membership): One of Us--Netflix doc that profiles three people and their experiences in leaving their Orthodox communities in Brooklyn. My heart broke for them all, especially the young woman trying to keep her kids after leaving an abusive marriage: One of Us
Strictly Kosher--BBC three part doc about the Orthodox community in Manchester, England, the 2nd largest Orthodox community in the UK after London. Interesting to see the combo of British and Orthodox life. Loved the Polish man who was the only member of his family to escape the Holocaust. Heartbreaking and touching. Strictly Kosher
A Match Made in Heaven--Israeli three part doc about matchmaking and marriage in Orthodox communities in Israel. English subtitles, so get ready to read I found this one to be really interesting, the filmmakers follow both men and women as they navigate the matchmaking process and expectations for men and women in Orthodox Israeli society. Touches on the issues of work and study, divorce, love and expectations. Really fascinating glimpse into the matchmaking process. A Match Made in Heaven
I watched One of Us and found it heartbreaking, too. I'll look into the other two - thanks! Thanks for your explanations and sharing your sister's story, elaine. I do think it is wonderful that you have been able to have a strong relationship with your nieces and nephew. It was through Sex and the City when Charlotte went through her conversion that I learned proselytizing isn't part of the religion. I used to watch Sez and the City, but I guess that I forgot that bit. I think that I saw it on Prime, and since it is a dark rainy night, that might be the perfect show to watch-again. 😊
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Nov 23, 2020 0:28:00 GMT
I was raised reformed, but in my early college years I spent a bit of time w/ a chassidic rabbi and his family. He was a very down to earth person and very approachable. He heads a group of people who help rescue Jews who have joined cults. Each shabbat(sabbath) I would be invited for lunch. There would be single men at the other end of table. I was too naive to recognize that my rabbi was trying to find my husband. HA! This rabbi was more spiritual than other rabbis, due to his sect. However, I couldn't fathom being told how to dress or sitting behind a black curtain during worship services. His wife was a psychotherapist w/her masters degree and she worked part time. His children were encouraged to go to college. I wasn't considered truly Jewish, because I was not ultra-orthodox. Jews will never try and convert a non-Jew. However, Chassidic Jews don't view reformed Jews as truly Jewish. So, they will try to encourage us to join their sect. I was raised that there is heaven. While there is no hell, there is a place call Gehenna. It's like jail or a halfway house for the soul. You go there to make amends for your sins, if you're done some of the big ones. Then you move to heaven. Truly evil people turn to dust when they die. Again, ask 10 rabbis and you'll get 11 answers. YMMV. I have no idea what really happens. When I get there I'll let you know. Interesting! If you don’t mind my asking, why don’t they try to convert non-Jews?
|
|
|
Post by scrapmaven on Nov 23, 2020 3:37:10 GMT
I was raised reformed, but in my early college years I spent a bit of time w/ a chassidic rabbi and his family. He was a very down to earth person and very approachable. He heads a group of people who help rescue Jews who have joined cults. Each shabbat(sabbath) I would be invited for lunch. There would be single men at the other end of table. I was too naive to recognize that my rabbi was trying to find my husband. HA! This rabbi was more spiritual than other rabbis, due to his sect. However, I couldn't fathom being told how to dress or sitting behind a black curtain during worship services. His wife was a psychotherapist w/her masters degree and she worked part time. His children were encouraged to go to college. I wasn't considered truly Jewish, because I was not ultra-orthodox. Jews will never try and convert a non-Jew. However, Chassidic Jews don't view reformed Jews as truly Jewish. So, they will try to encourage us to join their sect. I was raised that there is heaven. While there is no hell, there is a place call Gehenna. It's like jail or a halfway house for the soul. You go there to make amends for your sins, if you're done some of the big ones. Then you move to heaven. Truly evil people turn to dust when they die. Again, ask 10 rabbis and you'll get 11 answers. YMMV. I have no idea what really happens. When I get there I'll let you know. Interesting! If you don’t mind my asking, why don’t they try to convert non-Jews? The belief is that if you're born Jewish then you were meant to be Jewish, but not everyone is meant to be Jewish. We believe that whatever religion you believe in is right for you. You can convert to Judaism, but we won't seek you out.
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on Dec 15, 2020 6:19:58 GMT
I've discovered a couple more interesting documentaries on Amazon Prime. Would love to hear what others think of these. City of Joel follows what happens when a group of Hassidic Jews moves from Williamsburg to a small town north of NYC looking for more space and the conflict with their secular neighbors. Unorthodox (2015 documentary directed by Anna Wexler) is really interesting and follows several young nonreligious Jews who go to Israel for a year of study after high school. The film maker was raised in a Modern Orthodox home and rejected religion as a teen and was shocked to see some of her like minded friends come back religious which prompted this project.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Dec 16, 2020 17:31:39 GMT
I've discovered a couple more interesting documentaries on Amazon Prime. Would love to hear what others think of these. City of Joel follows what happens when a group of Hassidic Jews moves from Williamsburg to a small town north of NYC looking for more space and the conflict with their secular neighbors. Unorthodox (2015 documentary directed by Anna Wexler) is really interesting and follows several young nonreligious Jews who go to Israel for a year of study after high school. The film maker was raised in a Modern Orthodox home and rejected religion as a teen and was shocked to see some of her like minded friends come back religious which prompted this project. Thank you for the recommendations! ❤️ I’ll try to watch these over the next month and check back in.
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on Dec 16, 2020 18:04:16 GMT
Thank you for the recommendations! ❤️ I’ll try to watch these over the next month and check back in. When I go down a rabbit hole, I go deep. I watched another very short documentary, Shayma Maidels: Orthodox Teenage Jewish Girls, the other night. It follows several teenage Jewish girls in Los Angeles who become Orthodox Jews against their parents' wishes. The filming was done in the 80s based on their dress and I'd love to see a follow up of where these women are now.
|
|