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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 2:05:24 GMT
If you are looking for an amazing limited series - just 4 episodes, each around 60-90 minutes - this is one to watch.
It is quite accurate as to its portrayal of ultra-orthodox Jewish life. My sister’s sect is almost identical, except that the men don’t wear the Shtreimel fur hats, wearing black wool brimmed hats instead.
Dh and I are well aware of daily life in the community and we both thought that this was very well done in its portrayal and critique of how women are treated within it.
Anyhow, I know how people are looking for things to watch these days - I know we are - and I wanted to recommend this one.
If anyone watches or has watched it and has any questions, I’d be happy to take a stab at answering them. 😀
**************
Update: 2/3/21
Shira Haas has received a Golden Globe nomination for her starring role!
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,661
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Nov 22, 2020 2:12:09 GMT
I watched it a while back and loved it. There is another series that I watch "Shtisel. The actress is in both.
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 2,991 
Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
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Post by carhoch on Nov 22, 2020 2:26:50 GMT
If you are looking for an amazing limited series - just 4 episodes, each around 60-90 minutes - this is one to watch. It is quite accurate as to its portrayal of ultra-orthodox Jewish life. My sister’s sect is almost identical, except that the men don’t wear the Shtreimel fur hats, wearing black wool brimmed hats instead. Dh and I are well aware of daily life in the community and we both thought that this was very well done in its portrayal and critique of how women are treated within it. Anyhow, I know how people are looking for things to watch these days - I know we are - and I wanted to recommend this one. If anyone watches or has watched it and has any questions, I’d be happy to take a stab at answering them. I have not watched it yet but you talk about your sister sect , usually sect are bad news so if it’s the case I just wanted to say I am sorry . |
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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 2:28:23 GMT
I watched it a while back and loved it. There is another series that I watch "Shtisel. The actress is in both. I’ll have to watch that one too. Thank you. 👍🏻 Many of the actors in Unorthodox are Israeli, including the star. She is so good! I love hearing the Yiddish. My nieces and nephews in Israel all speak Hebrew, English and Yiddish. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 2:48:20 GMT
If you are looking for an amazing limited series - just 4 episodes, each around 60-90 minutes - this is one to watch. It is quite accurate as to its portrayal of ultra-orthodox Jewish life. My sister’s sect is almost identical, except that the men don’t wear the Shtreimel fur hats, wearing black wool brimmed hats instead. Dh and I are well aware of daily life in the community and we both thought that this was very well done in its portrayal and critique of how women are treated within it. Anyhow, I know how people are looking for things to watch these days - I know we are - and I wanted to recommend this one. If anyone watches or has watched it and has any questions, I’d be happy to take a stab at answering them. I have not watched it yet but you talk about your sister sect , usually sect are bad news so if it’s the case I just wanted to say I am sorry . Within Orthodox Judaism, just as within Christianity, there are different sects. In Protestantism, you have Baptists, Evangelicals, and several sects within each of those umbrellas, for example. That is different from a cult, although just like some of the more strict Christian sects, the lines blur between cult and sect. My sister’s sect are the Lubavitchers - they run the Chabad Houses around the country. Any Jew that has gone to college at a large university has probably come in contact with the local Chabad. The Haredi/Chasidic sect presented in the series is another sect, although they don’t specifically say which one. Although, if I paid closer attention to which Rabbi’s grave they visited in Berlin, I might be able to figure it out. (and yes, going to visit famous rabbi’s graves in Europe is a thing). My sister chose to practice ultra-orthodox Judaism after receiving a college and law school education. She entered the community after having the education and experience that she could live outside the community. Her daughters have not received nearly the same education she had (not even on par with a US high school education), and like the main character in Unorthodox, they would have a hard time leaving the community if they wanted to. |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,661
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Nov 22, 2020 2:55:35 GMT
In the series the men seem to spent a lot of time in study and prayer. How do they make a living?
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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 3:08:37 GMT
In the series the men seem to spent a lot of time in study and prayer. How do they make a living? Yes, they do. Most of the families are poor by our standards. It isn’t uncommon for the men to work at some small business or another, but it all takes a back seat to studying Torah. They work to be able to study. In Israel, it isn’t uncommon for the women to work at customer service call centers and other jobs that don’t require an education or training. My sister and some of her friends - all who converted when they were adults - are unique in that they can work at skilled jobs. My sister teleworks for a law firm in Nevada - doing all the legal work that needs to be done from her home office. My sister converted from Reform Judaism when she was 35 and moved to Israel. She married at 36 and had 6 children - the last when she was 47! 😱 She had banked a boatload money from the decade she practiced law in Los Angeles before getting married. They lived off of that until she finally had to go back to work. |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,661
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Nov 22, 2020 3:32:35 GMT
Do they practice birth control? Or do they believe they must have as many as g-d will give them?
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 22, 2020 3:39:41 GMT
I watched this awhile ago and thought it was really good.
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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 3:45:29 GMT
Do they practice birth control? Or do they believe they must have as many as g-d will give them? A huge “no” on the birth control. Yes, to the “as many children as they are given.” 😀 Old school Catholics have nothing on them in terms of average family size. The rules around when they can/should have sex optimize having sex right at ovulation. You can’t have sex while menstruating and for 7 days afterwards, so you are supposed to have sex at around day 14 of a woman’s cycle, or right around ovulation. |
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Post by Delta Dawn on Nov 22, 2020 4:27:17 GMT
What did your mother say when she wanted to join this sect? Was she ok with her moving to Israel? It is far away.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 22, 2020 4:39:00 GMT
I watched it a while back and loved it. There is another series that I watch "Shtisel. The actress is in both. Yes, I watched Shtisel after Unorthodox way back in the spring. I'm pretty sure paigepea recommended it and I loved both. Interesting that your sister choose to join the Lubavitchers sect, elaine. IIRC, the oldest daughter in Shtisel leaves her Ultra Orthodox family and marries into the Lubavitch sect. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 4:48:12 GMT
What did your mother say when she wanted to join this sect? Was she ok with her moving to Israel? It is far away. My sister was 35 when she converted and moved, so my mom really didn’t have much say in the matter. 😀 My sister and I each moved out at 17 to go to college and never lived at my mom’s home again. My mom doesn’t like Israel much - I always had to travel with her when she wanted to visit. She is too old to make the trip now - because it *is* far away. And my sister has lived there now 25 years - so longer than she lived with my mother. My father died in 1972 when we were young and my mother became involved with the Women’s Lib movement. We were always raised to believe that we could be anything we wanted to be: my sister became a lawyer and I am a psychologist. My mom is left wondering where she went wrong because my sister chose to deny her own daughters (3 of them) the same opportunities. But my sister is unshakable in her beliefs that she is doing the right thing. |
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Post by Delta Dawn on Nov 22, 2020 5:17:04 GMT
What did your mother say when she wanted to join this sect? Was she ok with her moving to Israel? It is far away. My sister was 35 when she converted and moved, so my mom really didn’t have much say in the matter. 😀 My sister and I each moved out at 17 to go to college and never lived at my mom’s home again. My mom doesn’t like Israel much - I always had to travel with her when she wanted to visit. She is too old to make the trip now - because it *is* far away. And my sister has lived there now 25 years - so longer than she lived with my mother. My father died in 1972 when we were young and my mother became involved with the Women’s Lib movement. We were always raised to believe that we could be anything we wanted to be: my sister became a lawyer and I am a psychologist. My mom is left wondering where she went wrong because my sister chose to deny her own daughters (3 of them) the same opportunities. But my sister is unshakable in her beliefs that she is doing the right thing. Very interesting! Sometimes I wondered about the sect of Christianity my sister joined. But she is gone now. Does her husband at least have a good job? |
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,633
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Post by valincal on Nov 22, 2020 5:35:52 GMT
I watched it quite a while ago and loved it. She’s so convincing in that role and I found it to be very interesting. I am fascinated by all the various religious sects and their lifestyles. Plus I love Germany so that part appealed to me.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 22, 2020 5:49:38 GMT
We watched it and really enjoyed it!
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michellegb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,915
Location: New England and loving it!
Jun 26, 2014 0:04:59 GMT
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Post by michellegb on Nov 22, 2020 9:42:00 GMT
I just finished the book and was wondering about the series. I know there are some differences but wasn't sure if it was worth the watch. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Nov 22, 2020 13:59:22 GMT
I admit to knowing very little about Judaism beyond basic tenets so I look forward to watching this. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Post by peano on Nov 22, 2020 15:28:10 GMT
I admit to knowing very little about Judaism beyond basic tenets so I look forward to watching this. Thanks for the recommendation. I was raised in the most liberal form of Judaism, reform, and the Jewish lifestyle portrayed in Unorthodox was exotic even to me. I would say the lifestyles of the vast majority of American Jews bear no resemblance to what is portrayed in the series, although similar cultural themes run throughout both—emphasis on education and learning (although predominantly for males in the more conservative sects) a patriarchal culture, but again, way more pronounced in the more conservative branches. I found the series compelling, and also read the book it was based upon, which fleshed out the story significantly. |
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Post by Megan on Nov 22, 2020 15:42:02 GMT
If you'd rather not answer this - I completely understand but you mentioned your sister is very well educated. Does she think her children should be too? I know the Amish have their year 'off' and away - is there similar?
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Post by Monica* on Nov 22, 2020 15:47:01 GMT
Thanks for the recommendation. I enjoy learning about other cultures, religions and lifestyles. This sounds interesting.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,610
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Nov 22, 2020 15:49:22 GMT
I watched this awhile ago and thought it was really good. Same. Watched it during our first lockdown. The acting is amazing. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 16:00:38 GMT
I admit to knowing very little about Judaism beyond basic tenets so I look forward to watching this. Thanks for the recommendation. I was raised in the most liberal form of Judaism, reform, and the Jewish lifestyle portrayed in Unorthodox was exotic even to me. I would say the lifestyles of the vast majority of American Jews bear no resemblance to what is portrayed in the series, although similar cultural themes run throughout both—emphasis on education and learning (although predominantly for males in the more conservative sects) a patriarchal culture, but again, way more pronounced in the more conservative branches. I found the series compelling, and also read the book it was based upon, which fleshed out the story significantly. Yes. This is true. I (and my sister) was raised Reform and when my sister decided to become a Lubavitcher, she had to go through a very lengthy conversion. The ultra-orthodox don’t consider what peano and I practice as being truly observant. I am treated to lectures about it usually around once per visit, or when my sister tries to explain basic Jewish holidays to me as if I haven’t been practicing them my whole life. It is a whole other world, which if I hadn’t seen quite a bit of it close up by sister, would have been brand new to me watching the series. My sister went through a matchmaker. She had a wedding “coach” who explained/taught her the rules of an ultra-orthodox marriage (she didn’t need the mechanics of sex part, but rules about the mikvah, when to have sex, her role in a marriage, etc.) whom I met when I flew out to Israel a week before her wedding. There were partitions set up at the wedding reception with men on one side of the room, women on the other. Dancing was all single gender - there was even no bride and groom dance like in the series. Since the wedding day, I haven’t seen my sister’s hair. She wears a turban (or other stretchy cap) or a sheitel (a wig) all the time - even in their home. Her neckline has to hide her collarbones, sleeves past the elbow and skirts past the knees at all times. No pants ever. When I visit, at the dinner table - and there are often guests for Shabbat - genders are segregated- men at one end of the table, women at the other. My BIL cannot touch me - no hugs or even hand shakes. He is very warm with me, but the basic rules of gender interaction are followed. It is so different from life as most in the US know it that it was refreshing to see it reflected in a t.v. series. Seeing it played out makes it easier to imagine. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 16:32:12 GMT
If you'd rather not answer this - I completely understand but you mentioned your sister is very well educated. Does she think her children should be too? I know the Amish have their year 'off' and away - is there similar? No, unfortunately, she doesn’t. ☹️ That is what is the hardest for me to take with her conversion. She was given opportunities and the education to be able to make lifelong choices about her future. She refuses to give her children the same opportunities and instead has severely limited what they can do. That is one of the things that spoke to me so loudly about Esther in Unorthodox. Two of my sister’s children - my oldest nephew who is now 23 and my 2nd niece who is almost 21 - have been coming out to Crown Heights, NY (a community like Williamsburg in the series) for the High Holidays since they each turned 16. Some years they take a bus down from NY and spend several days with us. We spoil them rotten. I drive up to a kosher grocery store an hour away and stock the fridge and pantry with things they can eat without cooking (our oven, microwave, etc. aren’t kosher). They don’t have a television at home, so they spend many hours at night after we go to bed watch t.v. in the basement. I take them sight seeing:  Anyhow, my niece is the only one interested in a secular education past high school and we keep offering to have her come live with us and we will help out her through college, but so far that has been met with a “no.” She is supposed to start a college-level program in Physical Therapy in January in Israel, and we are hoping that comes through. But she is the only child of theirs that will get any post-high school education. Also, they go to religious schools, not public ones, in Israel. So, their education is quite limited when compared to ours. There isn’t science. Math is fairly basic. History is only important as it pertains to religion. Even though my nieces and nephews have triple citizenship- Israel, USA & South Africa - they know next-to-nothing about the history of anything other than Israel and the Torah. Taking them around DC, I had to explain just the basics- about Congress, what the White House is, who Martin Luther King Jr was (we were on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial where he made his speech). Once the girls get to high school, school isn’t even full day, it drops to half day. Don’t get me started on the lack of education and certification in takes to be a teacher in a girls’ religious school. There isn’t anything similar to the Amish’ year off. But within the Lubavitcher community, some of the young adults will go work in a Chabad House in another country for a year - which would be similar to the Mormons’ Mission Year for young adults. |
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Post by ToniW on Nov 22, 2020 16:36:20 GMT
Interesting! I'll have to check this out. Like Monica, I like to learn about other cultures.
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Post by Merge on Nov 22, 2020 16:43:02 GMT
I find this fascinating. Thanks, elaine, for sharing your experience through your sister. I watched the first part of this series at some point and will have to go back and finish it. I do have a question - it’s been my understanding that Jews do not believe in the concepts of Heaven and salvation the way Christians do. Is that the case? And if so, what is the impetus for someone not of that sect to join it? I guess I’m curious because it seems like in Christianity, those who join very strict sects often believe their salvation is in jeopardy if they don’t do certain things. Is there a similar belief among Ultra-Orthodox Jews? |
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Post by elaine on Nov 22, 2020 17:16:30 GMT
I find this fascinating. Thanks, elaine , for sharing your experience through your sister. I watched the first part of this series at some point and will have to go back and finish it. I do have a question - it’s been my understanding that Jews do not believe in the concepts of Heaven and salvation the way Christians do. Is that the case? And if so, what is the impetus for someone not of that sect to join it? I guess I’m curious because it seems like in Christianity, those who join very strict sects often believe their salvation is in jeopardy if they don’t do certain things. Is there a similar belief among Ultra-Orthodox Jews? There isn’t the same focus on the afterlife in Judaism. Some sects believe there is one, some don’t. I was raised to not believe in an afterlife in terms of heaven and hell. One’s afterlife is the extent to which others remember you when you have passed on. So the impetus to follow G-d’s law and do good deeds is so that you will be remembered for such and that your goodness lives on. Hence, the saying “May her/his memory be a blessing” which is a typical Jewish response to hear of one’s passing. Along these lines, visiting the graves of Rabbis - which they did in Unorthodox - is very much a thing that the ultra-orthodox do. My eldest niece went on a trip to Eastern Europe with a group of ultra-orthodox women and the main purpose was to visit famous/important rabbis’ graves. So, yes, following G-d’s Laws/Commandments - and there are 613 of them - is necessary to live a good life and be remembered as such. And G-d will be angry if you break his laws/sin. But there isn’t a striving to fulfill the laws in order to get into heaven in the same way as there is in Christianity. Even in the sects that believe in heaven and hell, that isn’t front-and-center as to why one should follow G-d’s laws. Now, in my sister’s case, as is also the case in many who join cults, she was isolated and lonely in life. And after a somewhat traumatic incident, she was looking for a sense of community - a place to fit in. She went from being a single work-obsessed lawyer with only a couple casual friends, to a woman with a large community. Group meals every Friday night and Saturday afternoon, in addition to every Jewish holiday (they observe many more than the typical Jewish person). As long as you follow the rules, you have a large social circle. She moved to Israel in November, went to a matchmaker in January, met her huband in February and was married in March. Psychologically, it gave her exactly what she needed at the time - it filled a hole in her life at the time and then became her life. |
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Post by peano on Nov 22, 2020 17:29:17 GMT
My religious training about the afterlife is exactly the same as Elaine’s. The emphasis is on your behavior in the now based upon the foundation of the Ten Commandments (and the other 613 that I know nothing about  ) Of course the Torah is full of the wrath of G-d, but i was taught to govern my behavior not to avoid the wrath of G-d, but for the intrinsic value of living a moral and ethical life. ! |
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 22, 2020 17:30:18 GMT
Thank you, Elaine; this is very interesting! I’m wondering what it’s like when you visit-since you are Reform. Does her community accept the other sects, or do they proselytize? I so hope that your niece gets to get PT training!
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Post by sam9 on Nov 22, 2020 17:50:25 GMT
We watched it a while ago and loved it also.
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