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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 18, 2021 2:42:33 GMT
What to take guesses as to who will get one?
I’m guessing the guy who was in the cell with Jeffery Epstein...
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Post by fuji on Jan 18, 2021 2:47:06 GMT
Disgusting. This country needs to do some soul searching after this 4-year nightmare.
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Post by quinlove on Jan 18, 2021 2:50:43 GMT
What to take guesses as to who will get one? I’m guessing the guy who was in the cell with Jeffery Epstein...
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Post by fuji on Jan 18, 2021 2:54:17 GMT
I just don't get how anyone can say anything derogatory about Biden while this piece of shit is around. You don't have to like Biden. I get that. But how the f*** can you not speak up against everything Trump has done? Especially in the past 11 days?
ETA: I'm mentally exhausted by all of this. I spend too much time trying to figure it out. As a teacher, I keep wondering how we prevent this from happening again. My brain seriously hurts.
Another ETA: Back to the OP. I think he will pardon Steve Bannon, Ghislaine Maxwell, Ivanka, Jared, Don Jr, Eric.
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 12:56:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 6:02:05 GMT
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Post by lucyg on Jan 18, 2021 7:48:20 GMT
Oh, he better NOT pardon that POS Ghislaine Maxwell.
Well, I’m sure there are state charges against her, too.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 18, 2021 9:23:21 GMT
Oh, he better NOT pardon that POS Ghislaine Maxwell. Well, I’m sure there are state charges against her, too. Oh I bet that’s one of them!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 18, 2021 9:27:06 GMT
Steve Bannon
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 12:56:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 10:42:24 GMT
I still don't get Trumps interpretation of a pardon. Surely a Presidential pardon, in any country, is given to relieve the person of a their sentence following their conviction, is it not? What is there to pardon without the conviction and sentence? Pardoning the possibility that someone has committed a crime makes a mockery of the justice system in your country - Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, whatever one might think of those people in the court of public opinion. Trumps pardons would be guilty until proven innocent if he pardons some of the people mentioned in this thread or anyone else for that matter unless they're convicted.
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Post by littlemama on Jan 18, 2021 11:20:23 GMT
I still don't get Trumps interpretation of a pardon. Surely a Presidential pardon, in any country, is given to relieve the person of a their sentence following their conviction, is it not? What is there to pardon without the conviction and sentence? Pardoning the possibility that someone has committed a crime makes a mockery of the justice system in your country - Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, whatever one might think of those people in the court of public opinion. Trumps pardons would be guilty until proven innocent if he pardons some of the people mentioned in this thread or anyone else for that matter unless they're convicted. You are correct. As with most words, Trump doesnt understand the meaning or purpose of a pardon. Strangely, the purpose is NOT to absolve your co-conspirators of their guilt. I hope Biden can revoke most of these.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 12:56:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 11:37:36 GMT
I still don't get Trumps interpretation of a pardon. Surely a Presidential pardon, in any country, is given to relieve the person of a their sentence following their conviction, is it not? What is there to pardon without the conviction and sentence? Pardoning the possibility that someone has committed a crime makes a mockery of the justice system in your country - Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, whatever one might think of those people in the court of public opinion. Trumps pardons would be guilty until proven innocent if he pardons some of the people mentioned in this thread or anyone else for that matter unless they're convicted. You are correct. As with most words, Trump doesnt understand the meaning or purpose of a pardon. Strangely, the purpose is NOT to absolve your co-conspirators of their guilt. I hope Biden can revoke most of these. If he does pardon people that have not been convicted as predicted on this thread I hope someone will deem it unconstitutional rather than drop it in Biden lap to sort out. Its a matter for the courts. Biden has enough to do without getting tangled in constitutional legality and the rule of law. Poor man I feel so sorry for him, what a job he has on his hands.
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Post by Really Red on Jan 18, 2021 14:03:59 GMT
I just don't get how anyone can say anything derogatory about Biden while this piece of shit is around. You don't have to like Biden. I get that. But how the f*** can you not speak up against everything Trump has done? Especially in the past 11 days?ETA: I'm mentally exhausted by all of this. I spend too much time trying to figure it out. As a teacher, I keep wondering how we prevent this from happening again. My brain seriously hurts. Another ETA: Back to the OP. I think he will pardon Steve Brannon, Ghislaine Maxwell, Ivanka, Jared, Don Jr, Eric. I was just thinking this very same thing this morning! And papercrafteradvocate HA HA HA
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Post by hop2 on Jan 18, 2021 14:10:19 GMT
Once you have been pardoned you can’t plea the 5th for anything you were pardoned for. You have to answer or be held in contempt of court.
Sure, I guess you could lie, but you can’t plea the 5th and you could be compelled to testify against Trump & others.
Or perhaps sit in jail for contempt 🤷♀️
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 18, 2021 14:10:24 GMT
I still don't get Trumps interpretation of a pardon. Surely a Presidential pardon, in any country, is given to relieve the person of a their sentence following their conviction, is it not? What is there to pardon without the conviction and sentence? Pardoning the possibility that someone has committed a crime makes a mockery of the justice system in your country - Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, whatever one might think of those people in the court of public opinion. Trumps pardons would be guilty until proven innocent if he pardons some of the people mentioned in this thread or anyone else for that matter unless they're convicted. So here's the thing... It was/is NEVER about the pardon, the crime, the conviction, the sentence or otherwise any justice being served. He does not give one iota of a crap about "justice". It IS and ALWAYS WAS about the money that he can get for giving away the pardons. Trump has put America---everything about it---up for sale. You won't see poor people in jail, POC incarcerated getting pardons because they do not have the $$$$ to give up the chain to be pardoned and released. The $$$ can come as cold hard cash, clout, or some other tangible/untangible "thing" of value that trump can PERSONALLY benefit at sometime when he needs it. The pardon is nothing more than a $$$$ transaction to trump.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 18, 2021 14:13:00 GMT
This is the most accurate headline to date regarding trump & pardons. The New York Times "Prospect of Pardons in Final Days Fuels Market to Buy Access to Trump The president’s allies have collected tens of thousands of dollars — and potentially much more — from people seeking pardons."
WASHINGTON — As President Trump prepares to leave office in days, a lucrative market for pardons is coming to a head, with some of his allies collecting fees from wealthy felons or their associates to push the White House for clemency, according to documents and interviews with more than three dozen lobbyists and lawyers.
The brisk market for pardons reflects the access peddling that has defined Mr. Trump’s presidency as well as his unorthodox approach to exercising unchecked presidential clemency powers. Pardons and commutations are intended to show mercy to deserving recipients, but Mr. Trump has used many of them to reward personal or political allies.
The pardon lobbying heated up as it became clear that Mr. Trump had no recourse for challenging his election defeat, lobbyists and lawyers say. One lobbyist, Brett Tolman, a former federal prosecutor who has been advising the White House on pardons and commutations, has monetized his clemency work, collecting tens of thousands of dollars, and possibly more, in recent weeks to lobby the White House for clemency for the son of a former Arkansas senator; the founder of the notorious online drug marketplace Silk Road; and a Manhattan socialite who pleaded guilty in a fraud scheme.
Mr. Trump’s former personal lawyer John M. Dowd has marketed himself to convicted felons as someone who could secure pardons because of his close relationship with the president, accepting tens of thousands of dollars from a wealthy felon and advising him and other potential clients to leverage Mr. Trump’s grievances about the justice system.
A onetime top adviser to the Trump campaign was paid $50,000 to help seek a pardon for John Kiriakou, a former C.I.A. officer convicted of illegally disclosing classified information, and agreed to a $50,000 bonus if the president granted it, according to a copy of an agreement.
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And Mr. Kiriakou was separately told that Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani could help him secure a pardon for $2 million. Mr. Kiriakou rejected the offer, but an associate, fearing that Mr. Giuliani was illegally selling pardons, alerted the F.B.I. Mr. Giuliani challenged this characterization.
After Mr. Trump’s impeachment for inciting his supporters before the deadly riot at the Capitol, and with Republican leaders turning on him, the pardon power remains one of the last and most likely outlets for quick unilateral action by an increasingly isolated, erratic president. He has suggested to aides he wants to take the extraordinary and unprecedented step of pardoning himself, though it was not clear whether he had broached the topic since the rampage.
He has also discussed issuing pre-emptive pardons to his children, his son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, and Mr. Giuliani.
A White House spokesman declined to comment.
Legal scholars and some pardon lawyers shudder at the prospect of such moves, as well as the specter of Mr. Trump’s friends and allies offering to pursue pardons for others in exchange for cash.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Jan 18, 2021 14:25:59 GMT
I thought I read he couldn’t give pardons now that he’s been impeached? But maybe that doesn’t make sense since he’s already been impeached once and was able to pass out pardons after that.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 12:56:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 14:40:53 GMT
I still don't get Trumps interpretation of a pardon. Surely a Presidential pardon, in any country, is given to relieve the person of a their sentence following their conviction, is it not? What is there to pardon without the conviction and sentence? Pardoning the possibility that someone has committed a crime makes a mockery of the justice system in your country - Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, whatever one might think of those people in the court of public opinion. Trumps pardons would be guilty until proven innocent if he pardons some of the people mentioned in this thread or anyone else for that matter unless they're convicted. So here's the thing... It was/is NEVER about the pardon, the crime, the conviction, the sentence or otherwise any justice being served. He does not give one iota of a crap about "justice". It IS and ALWAYS WAS about the money that he can get for giving away the pardons. Trump has put America---everything about it---up for sale. You won't see poor people in jail, POC incarcerated getting pardons because they do not have the $$$$ to give up the chain to be pardoned and released. The $$$ can come as cold hard cash, clout, or some other tangible/untangible "thing" of value that trump can PERSONALLY benefit at sometime when he needs it. The pardon is nothing more than a $$$$ transaction to trump. No $$$$ to be had for being the top executioner I guess! Donald Trump has added a morbid new distinction to his presidency – for the first time in US history, the federal government has in one year executed more American civilians than all the states combined.
In the course of 2020, in an unprecedented glut of judicial killing, the Trump administration rushed to put 10 prisoners to death. The execution spree ran roughshod over historical norms and stood entirely contrary to the decline in the practice of the death penalty that has been the trend in the US for several years .LINK
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 18, 2021 14:41:22 GMT
I thought I read he couldn’t give pardons now that he’s been impeached? But maybe that doesn’t make sense since he’s already been impeached once and was able to pass out pardons after that. Thinking not being able to pardon himself. But he will try anything. No regard for the law what so ever!
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Post by greendragonlady on Jan 18, 2021 14:44:55 GMT
I thought I read he couldn’t give pardons now that he’s been impeached? But maybe that doesn’t make sense since he’s already been impeached once and was able to pass out pardons after that. I think there's some vague language about presidential pardons. "The pardon power of the President is based on Article Two of the United States Constitution (Section 2, Clause 1), which provides: ... shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment."
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Post by elaine on Jan 18, 2021 14:49:21 GMT
ashley , I think that he cannot pardon himself for the crime(s) in the Article(s) of impeachment. He *can* pardon himself (maybe - it will come down to a supreme court decision as to whether a President can actually pardon himself) for other crimes. And heaven knows he has committed many many more than those in his article of impeachment.
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Post by katlady on Jan 18, 2021 15:06:38 GMT
I hope he doesn’t pardon “Q Shaman” or any of his fellow rioting friends!
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 18, 2021 15:10:33 GMT
I hope he doesn’t pardon “Q Shaman” or any of his fellow rioting friends! I will be really pissed if that happens.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 18, 2021 16:03:39 GMT
I hope he doesn’t pardon “Q Shaman” or any of his fellow rioting friends! "Q Shaman" has named dt as directing him to go to the Capitol. He has not yet pardoned Michael Cohen, he might later. Remember Cohen named dt as person #1. So if you talk = no pardon. No talk = pardon. But who knows?!?!
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Post by auroraborealis on Jan 18, 2021 16:06:50 GMT
Rudy G
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Post by Mel on Jan 18, 2021 16:17:51 GMT
Once you have been pardoned you can’t plea the 5th for anything you were pardoned for. You have to answer or be held in contempt of court. Sure, I guess you could lie, but you can’t plea the 5th and you could be compelled to testify against Trump & others. Or perhaps sit in jail for contempt 🤷♀️ I am willing to bet that tRump hasn't given it that much thought though. And even if someone has pointed this out to him, he probably figures that if he does them this big favor of granting a pardon SURELY they will lie to protect him or his family... Also, NONE of the people who are in trouble for the stuff with the insurrection (the stuff at the Capital, etc.) are eligible for his pardon because that was the reason for his second impeachment.
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Post by Mel on Jan 18, 2021 16:19:08 GMT
I hope he doesn’t pardon “Q Shaman” or any of his fellow rioting friends! He can't. ETA: Here is a really good article about pardons... and tRump... LOL Presidential Pardons
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,738
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Jan 18, 2021 16:33:35 GMT
I hope he doesn’t pardon “Q Shaman” or any of his fellow rioting friends! He can't. I sure hope that there is no way to work around this. I think the top of my head will blow off if he does find a way to pardon these terrorists.
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Post by myshelly on Jan 18, 2021 16:40:13 GMT
You are correct. As with most words, Trump doesnt understand the meaning or purpose of a pardon. Strangely, the purpose is NOT to absolve your co-conspirators of their guilt. I hope Biden can revoke most of these. If he does pardon people that have not been convicted as predicted on this thread I hope someone will deem it unconstitutional rather than drop it in Biden lap to sort out. Its a matter for the courts. Biden has enough to do without getting tangled in constitutional legality and the rule of law. Poor man I feel so sorry for him, what a job he has on his hands. It won’t be found unconstitutional. See Ford pardoning Nixon. The courts have held that preemptive pardons are constitutional. They won’t suddenly reverse that.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jan 18, 2021 16:52:19 GMT
Ugh, more Trump. Only 2 more days of him. 👏🏻 Probably his kids and Jared. Maybe Rudy. Other grifters. I just want him gone.
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uksue
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,505
Location: London
Jun 25, 2014 22:33:20 GMT
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Post by uksue on Jan 18, 2021 18:29:23 GMT
Oh, he better NOT pardon that POS Ghislaine Maxwell. Well, I’m sure there are state charges against her, too. I would be FURIOUS ! She is one selfish,evil, entitled b*tch.
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