pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on May 19, 2021 14:14:37 GMT
What would the Peas do if you were in my shoes.
I talked with a landscaper extensively to redo the parkway (area between sidewalk and street) and front "yards" (small areas since we're in Chicago). We discussed doing brick pavers around a rock flower bed for the parkway via text, even picking out a color, and during the 2 times they came out in person.
They had to postpone our job 1 week due to workers coming down with COVID. Then on the first day, two people showed up and then they had to leave after an hour or so because one of the people had a family emergency. Then on the second day, they showed up 1.5 hours after promised.
Then I get a text that same day that said, hey, we have some unexpected costs. 1. An area on the parkway needs to be graded/leveled ($437) 2. If you want to do the brick pavers, it will be an additional cost ($850) 3. If you want to have a weed barrier in your flower beds, it'll be extra ($321.11)
That's an extra $1608.11.
The grading, I get — that's truly unexpected. And I got them to admit that the weed barrier was included in the quote, so that cost is gone. So from a $1287 plus 10% tax full price additional cost, they are now only coming down to $1137 plus a 3.5% credit card fee.
So they took out an extra $150. That's nothing.
My perspective is, they postponed and showed up late AND are doing a bait and switch based on the conversations we had. They said the brick pavers would've been a line item in the quote and acknowledged it was their mistake that it was missing but that they can't cover that cost.
I'm not trying to pay nothing. But I am not trying to pay 30% more on top of the agreed upon price. What would you do?
Also to be clear: They already tore up and removed the old landscaping so we have a bunch of unsightly dirt left.
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Post by Basket1lady on May 19, 2021 14:29:00 GMT
Ugh. I’d be really mad, that’s what!
Grading was unexpected? I disagree with that. You should be able to see if the ground is uneven before you start.
Was the original quote really inexpensive? Too inexpensive to be true? They came down $470, not $150. And the weed barrier cost added on was $321, so they are coming down on something else. How badly do you want the bricks?
I think it’s going to be difficult to find laborers in the coming months. There’s a big labor shortage and they can pick and choose jobs. So as much I’d like to say just walk away from this company, I don’t know that it will get done this year if you don’t use them.
And even though they are likely not reporting all the income if you pay in cash, for that large of a job I wouldn’t pay the extra 3% to pay with a CC.
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smartypants71
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,834
Location: Houston, TX
Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on May 19, 2021 14:29:42 GMT
I think all of those extra costs are reasonable although they sound very disorganized.I would however be hung up on the credit card fee.
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Post by sunshine on May 19, 2021 14:34:30 GMT
How bad do you want the work done this year? I think at this point you’ll have a hard time getting another company even available.
Can you write them a check instead of paying the cc fee?
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,640
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 19, 2021 14:49:15 GMT
I'd be asking about the CCD fee. I know that's not on them, but the cost of business with the CCd company but I'd see if they'll take a check or money order instead.
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pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on May 19, 2021 14:55:18 GMT
Ugh. I’d be really mad, that’s what! Grading was unexpected? I disagree with that. You should be able to see if the ground is uneven before you start. Was the original quote really inexpensive? Too inexpensive to be true? They came down $470, not $150. And the weed barrier cost added on was $321, so they are coming down on something else. How badly do you want the bricks? I think it’s going to be difficult to find laborers in the coming months. There’s a big labor shortage and they can pick and choose jobs. So as much I’d like to say just walk away from this company, I don’t know that it will get done this year if you don’t use them. And even though they are likely not reporting all the income if you pay in cash, for that large of a job I wouldn’t pay the extra 3% to pay with a CC. No they only came down $150, because they asked for more money for the weed barrier then realized it was already in the contract. $437+850 = $1287 The total cost for everything was $5100. They came in around or slightly higher than other estimates, so it wasn’t too good to be true.
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Post by malibou on May 19, 2021 14:57:52 GMT
If the plan was to lay brick, grading has to be done to some extent, as the bricks need to sit flat. Weed barrier is also expected as there will be space between the bricks where weeds can and will grow.
In my opinion what happened was they were getting a lot of requests for work, as most contractors are, and a bigger job came up after he did your quote, so he pushed yours out, and now his materials costs have gone up. All materials costs have gone up, and are continuing to go up daily, and he certainly knew that was happening. It's on him that he didn't order materials when you signed the contract, and on him to some extent when he is leaving off materials that were discussed. And no way should he be hitting you up for the credit card fee unless that was disclosed from the get go, and if it had been disclosed at the beginning, I would have laughed in his face. That number should have been buried in his overhead cost, and is then used as a discount when you ask if he will take less for all cash.
The price likely isn't out of line if you got the quote today as materials are going up fast, but you signed a contract and he needs to perform on it. Yes, unforseen things can happen and will add costs to a job, but I see no unseen conditions in what you wrote. I see a guy who over extended himself because the market was hot and he got in over his head and would like you to pay for that mistake.
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finaledition
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,896
Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
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Post by finaledition on May 19, 2021 14:58:10 GMT
We were all set for a bathroom remodel with a very reputable company and a few days before starting they realized a couple things were missing. It made me nervous so I backed out. Told the owner and he said he completely understood my hesitancy and refunded my deposit. Go with your gut.
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pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on May 19, 2021 15:00:24 GMT
If the plan was to lay brick, grading has to be done to some extent, as the bricks need to sit flat. Weed barrier is also expected as there will be space between the bricks where weeds can and will grow. In my opinion what happened was they were getting a lot of requests for work, as most contractors are, and a bigger job came up after he did your quote, so he pushed yours out, and now his materials costs have gone up. All materials costs have gone up, and are continuing to go up daily, and he certainly knew that was happening. It's on him that he didn't order materials when you signed the contract, and on him to some extent when he is leaving off materials that were discussed. And no way should he be hitting you up for the credit card fee unless that was disclosed from the get go, and if it had been disclosed at the beginning, I would have laughed in his face. That number should have been buried in his overhead cost, and is then used as a discount when you ask if he will take less for all cash. The price likely isn't out of line if you got the quote today as materials are going up fast, but you signed a contract and he needs to perform on it. Yes, unforseen things can happen and will add costs to a job, but I see no unseen conditions in what you wrote. I see a guy who over extended himself because the market was hot and he got in over his head and would like you to pay for that mistake. Our landscape is already torn up — they already removed the grass and other plants. At this point, what would you do? Suck it up and pay because we probably won’t be able to get someone else and prices are going up? It’s just so messed up.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 19, 2021 15:09:52 GMT
There are contractors who will come up with raised prices and excuses to get YOU to back out of the job when they no longer want it.
Two things— it’s ALWAYS your (general you) to go over the quote before accepting your ensure everything that you want is specifically listed—it helps to take notes and add that to your contract (and now a days ALWAYS get a signed by both parties contract). Only after the quote/contract Kay’s out everything then sign and give a deposit. I’d never pay more than 25-30% down.
If items that you discussed/texted are not on the quote/contract, you’ll be the one screwed later if they’re not done.
If something doesn’t get done and it’s not spelled out by their “accidental” omission, again, you’ll be the one who suffers.
I come from a builder/contractor background so I’d even insist on them signing lien releases before they were paid (supply houses can out a lien on your property for materials purchased by the contractor for your job if the contractor doesn’t pay their bills to the supplier) lien releases will help you!
I’d call another one if your bids and as if they’re still available.
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Post by christine58 on May 19, 2021 15:11:18 GMT
Suck it up and pay because we probably won’t be able to get someone else and prices are going up? It’s just so messed up. Yes...I know the landscapers here are having a hell of a time getting workers.
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
Posts: 4,307
Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on May 19, 2021 15:13:18 GMT
trust your gut. We are out in the Northern suburbs. You can absolutely find someone else. In fact many landscapers based in Wauconda, Round Lake etc, would be happy to come into the city for a job.
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pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on May 19, 2021 15:14:41 GMT
There are contractors who will come up with raised prices and excuses to get YOU to back out of the job when they no longer want it. Two things— it’s ALWAYS your (general you) to go over the quote before accepting your ensure everything that you want is specifically listed—it helps to take notes and add that to your contract (and now a days ALWAYS get a signed by both parties contract). Only after the quote/contract Kay’s out everything then sign and give a deposit. I’d never pay more than 25-30% down. If items that you discussed/texted are not on the quote/contract, you’ll be the one screwed later if they’re not done. I come from a builder/contractor background so I’d even insist on them signing lien releases before they were paid (supply houses can out a lien on your property for materials purchased by the contractor for your job if the contractor doesn’t pay their bills to the supplier) lien releases will help you! I’d call another one if your bids and as if they’re still available. Yeah, it’s my mistake for assuming the “rocks and other materials” line item included pavers, but as a lay person, I feel like it was a very reasonable assumption given all of our prior conversations (not just verbal...written, too!). At the end of the day, we paid the deposit via CC and would very likely get it back if we did a chargeback. We have such a hard time finding good contractors in Chicago — even ones that are highly recommended suck. Many people won’t show up to do estimates even after you book them and many will ghost you after they go through the trouble of pricing out an estimate. I don’t get it at all. I’m choosing smaller (as in not huge) contractors as well since our job isn’t crazy expensive.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on May 19, 2021 15:14:57 GMT
There could’ve also been a shortage in bricks and the price of them might’ve gone up? Just like what is happening with lumber. I have friends who are currently building a house and they’ve had to pay more even now it’s in progress (like $1500 more) because of lumber costs.
Edit: Oh I see they just didn’t include all of them in the original quote. Got it, nvm.
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Post by mom on May 19, 2021 15:23:15 GMT
If the plan was to lay brick, grading has to be done to some extent, as the bricks need to sit flat. Weed barrier is also expected as there will be space between the bricks where weeds can and will grow. In my opinion what happened was they were getting a lot of requests for work, as most contractors are, and a bigger job came up after he did your quote, so he pushed yours out, and now his materials costs have gone up. All materials costs have gone up, and are continuing to go up daily, and he certainly knew that was happening. It's on him that he didn't order materials when you signed the contract, and on him to some extent when he is leaving off materials that were discussed. And no way should he be hitting you up for the credit card fee unless that was disclosed from the get go, and if it had been disclosed at the beginning, I would have laughed in his face. That number should have been buried in his overhead cost, and is then used as a discount when you ask if he will take less for all cash. The price likely isn't out of line if you got the quote today as materials are going up fast, but you signed a contract and he needs to perform on it. Yes, unforseen things can happen and will add costs to a job, but I see no unseen conditions in what you wrote. I see a guy who over extended himself because the market was hot and he got in over his head and would like you to pay for that mistake. Our landscape is already torn up — they already removed the grass and other plants. At this point, what would you do? Suck it up and pay because we probably won’t be able to get someone else and prices are going up? It’s just so messed up. It is messed up but you you are. I would offer to split the cost (or atleast some of the cost) and get the work done. Having to find someone else -- and risk no one wanting to finish the job because they'd know you already booted one company -- may not be easy and it is possible it will cost more and who knows how long it would take for them to even start. For the CC fees - unless it was in your contract I would NOT pay them.
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pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on May 19, 2021 15:28:16 GMT
Our landscape is already torn up — they already removed the grass and other plants. At this point, what would you do? Suck it up and pay because we probably won’t be able to get someone else and prices are going up? It’s just so messed up. It is messed up but you you are. I would offer to split the cost (or atleast some of the cost) and get the work done. Having to find someone else -- and risk no one wanting to finish the job because they'd know you already booted one company -- may not be easy and it is possible it will cost more and who knows how long it would take for them to even start. For the CC fees - unless it was in your contract I would NOT pay them. I already offered to split the cost. They aren’t budging below $1137. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on May 19, 2021 15:32:06 GMT
Two things— it’s ALWAYS your (general you) to go over the quote before accepting your ensure everything that you want is specifically listed—it helps to take notes and add that to your contract (and now a days ALWAYS get a signed by both parties contract). Only after the quote/contract Kay’s out everything then sign and give a deposit. I’d never pay more than 25-30% down. If items that you discussed/texted are not on the quote/contract, you’ll be the one screwed later if they’re not done. If something doesn’t get done and it’s not spelled out by their “accidental” omission, again, you’ll be the one who suffers. Yes to all of this. Do you have an actual contract on paper that you both signed, or was the agreement via text/verbal? Anything that has not been added to the written contract is going to be really hard, if not impossible, to enforce with them. I've been down that road before and now insist that the contract be amended for anything that will cost more than $100. How much money have you given them already? It sounds as though you are at a good point to change landscapers - IF you are able to find another to take the job. It would also cost more due to increase in costs, and take longer due to the backlog everyone seems to be suffering with. If your city is anything like mine, all the landscapers are running short staffed. We also have the problem of not enough plants to replace what was lost in the freeze. I am still waiting for my replacement plants. I noticed that last week the quality of my weekly yard care decreased significantly. Those workers are stretched thin and they can't always get the best qualified people to work right now. Regarding the credit card charge - did they tell you up front that they were charging the fee? I have learned to always ask if they don't volunteer that information (most do). Experience has shown that nearly all small companies and individuals pass that fee along to the customer. As far as the grading, when dealing with brick or concrete pavers grading is necessary. A good landscaper would have known that up front and included it in the charges. He's either not very experienced with pavers, or he's trying to pad the contract to cover the cost increase in materials.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 31, 2024 22:55:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 15:33:11 GMT
If it were me, I'd get someone else to come out and quote finish the job. And make sure every cost is factored into the quote given what's happened. Once I got that quote, I would then decide how I feel about moving forward with the current guys or the new guys.
I would be wary of the current guys finding additional costs again. Mistakes happen but that misquoting issue seems to be either incompetence or scamming and it would make me want to bail out before it gets worse. It's a difficult position when you're weighed down by sunken cost.
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Post by mom on May 19, 2021 15:34:28 GMT
It is messed up but you you are. I would offer to split the cost (or atleast some of the cost) and get the work done. Having to find someone else -- and risk no one wanting to finish the job because they'd know you already booted one company -- may not be easy and it is possible it will cost more and who knows how long it would take for them to even start. For the CC fees - unless it was in your contract I would NOT pay them. I already offered to split the cost. They aren’t budging below $1137. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ The reality is you need them more than they need you. Are you dealing with the owner of the company or just a foreman?
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,295
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:46 GMT
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Post by iowgirl on May 19, 2021 15:38:21 GMT
I'm not trying to pay nothing. But I am not trying to pay 30% more on top of the agreed upon price. What would you do? Unless you had the final cost firmly in writing, with no contingencies in the contract - that is just how it is going to be. Right now, with any type of construction, things are going crazy. Really nuts. We have been in the middle of a big expansion in our facilities on our ranch. Luckily, for the main project, we had our materials delivered, and the construction was finished early this spring. We paid in cash (by writing a check) for all of this. We pre-paid a major portion in 2020, and then paid the final payment last week when the construction was finished. If we had not had the materials delivered at the time we did - we would be paying about $500 more than what the original contract was for. There was a line in the contract that allowed them go go back and get more money. We knew of this, and that is why we pushed very hard to get our materials delivered so we would not get pinched for more money. This is with a major national building company. All in all - if we were to build the exact same building, pricing it today, it would be nearly 90K more than what we contracted for last December. IF they could get the building materials. IMO - you are lucky if you get your landscaping done and the price doesn't go up significantly. Paying cash is never an issue for us, but I would be frosted over paying a CC fee... but most places around here won't accept CC, because of the fees they incur.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
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Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on May 19, 2021 15:39:00 GMT
I think the person who gave you the quote was just a salesman. The actual contractor knows that they need. A salesman won't really understand the nuances of grading a site. I don't know how large an area we are talking but if it was a really large area, you could potentially need a survey done to make sure the grading is done at the correct percentage of slope to make sure that the site will drain properly and the bricks will lay flat. Cut and fill isn't always clear until you start getting into the nitty gritty of the job. If the site isn't graded properly, you will have ponding and eventually failure of the site which will cost way more later to fix. I'm a landscape architect so I kinda know what I'm talking about.
The cost of the pavers should have been included. It is possible they are trying to upsell you but it is also possible that the price list they pulled from is old based on the increase in prices lately. Either way, they should still eat part of that cost. As the cost of the materials goes up, their profit margin shrinks so they have to get the money anyway they can.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 31, 2024 22:55:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 15:43:26 GMT
So they removed the weed barrier and discounted $150 for your troubles, when the original quote with in line with what other companies that included landscaping and pavers were charging? Really sounds like a bait and switch to me. I’d expect them to know the area needed grading BEFORE work began. Also, no way did they just realize the missing paver charge when they would have had to order the materials ahead of time. They are banking on you paying because they’ve already torn everything out. If they won’t meet in the middle to split the cost, then I’d go back to one of the other companies and get a quote for the remaining work.
ETA: If you aren’t already dealing with the owner of the company, you need to.
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pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on May 19, 2021 16:20:46 GMT
I’m already dealing with the owner of the company, for all who are asking. He was the one who did the quote, too. At least it’s his name on the company, lol.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on May 19, 2021 17:01:55 GMT
I’ve never seen a job quoted this way with the basics later being add-ons and I have extensive experience working with contractors. So the total job will be how much? Around $6,500 with the add-ons? If your parkway is around 200 sq ft which is usually what I see, that’s over $32/sq ft, which is high.
Grading is always part of the quote because no one who knows his business would lay down bricks without grading. Otherwise, the bricks would shift over time. And it’s not just levelling as mentioned above; there has to be a slight slope toward the street because otherwise you would have pooling of water on the sidewalk every time it rains or storms (no grass/exposed soil to absorb it anymore).
If I can I would drop them. There’s no shortage of landscapers in the Chicagoland area who know how to properly hardscape. If, however, you just want this done and over with, then I think you’ll just have to accept the price.
Since I’m already here, let me explain what needs to be done so you’re equipped with the details that should be part of the quote. For Chicago, the excavation is around 8 inches (by hand, not machine because of gas lines). The amount of gravel on top will depend on the parkway’s size, but it should be enough to create a 6-inch base. Over that is a 1-inch base of sand. Then the pavers can be laid.
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Post by malibou on May 19, 2021 17:48:52 GMT
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Post by magellen on May 19, 2021 18:40:50 GMT
They should have included a 10 % overrun fee.
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pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on May 19, 2021 20:08:15 GMT
I’ve never seen a job quoted this way with the basics later being add-ons and I have extensive experience working with contractors. So the total job will be how much? Around $6,500 with the add-ons? If your parkway is around 200 sq ft which is usually what I see, that’s over $32/sq ft, which is high. Grading is always part of the quote because no one who knows his business would lay down bricks without grading. Otherwise, the bricks would shift over time. And it’s not just levelling as mentioned above; there has to be a slight slope toward the street because otherwise you would have pooling of water on the sidewalk every time it rains or storms (no grass/exposed soil to absorb it anymore). If I can I would drop them. There’s no shortage of landscapers in the Chicagoland area who know how to properly hardscape. If, however, you just want this done and over with, then I think you’ll just have to accept the price. Since I’m already here, let me explain what needs to be done so you’re equipped with the details that should be part of the quote. For Chicago, the excavation is around 8 inches (by hand, not machine because of gas lines). The amount of gravel on top will depend on the parkway’s size, but it should be enough to create a 6-inch base. Over that is a 1-inch base of sand. Then the pavers can be laid. It's priced for a double wide lot (it's two separate neighboring houses, but we own both properties). They are hand excavating — not just due to gas lines, but we have a meter and a red light camera in our parkway, ha. The leveling and sand was part of what was costing extra, but I 100% expected that to be part of the quote, even if it wasn't written out in detail, for the sheer fact that they should have known already what they were doing. Anyway, I had a doctor's appointment so my husband ended up calling them to talk — he gave them an ultimatum without being an asshole and said in nicer words that they could either come to a better compromise or we'd do a charge back. So they're out doing the work as we speak. Hope it turns out fine. Thanks for your help. I might have to ask you for recs for various other contractors in the future if you happen to know of anyone.
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