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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 15:34:46 GMT
The Ps always have the best information/education/articles on things, and know where to look. I've been googling, but need some help.
Last night my dh and I got in to a big fight. As most know I am liberal, he is a republican. NOT a trumplican thank the lord. One of the enbridge pipelines is running thru our area, and they are upgrading it. This wk there were protestors and over 100 people were arrested. I get our need for oil, and I get that this is just replacing a current pipeline, not new. BUT we got in to it about the need for oil. My dh says that we need oil for everything. That basically everything is made from a oil/petroleum product, and if oil production is decreased we won't function as a country. That the USA is built on oil. I think and hope he's wrong. He also doesn't believe in climate change. That they've been talking about it since he was little and nothing's happened. ...I'm like whaaaaat? yes it has.
Do you guys know of any NON biased articles about any of those subjects I can print off and show him? Yes yes, I now it probably won't change his mind, but I just want to broaden his mind. He claims he is not narrow minded, but that nothing I have said has changed his mind. I just want to prove to him, and reading and educating himself would be nice, vs just his little world.
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Post by christine58 on Jun 13, 2021 15:55:50 GMT
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Post by Basket1lady on Jun 13, 2021 16:04:20 GMT
I know when I talk to my dad and he goes off about solar energy and wind farms, I tell him that we want to be less dependent on petroleum products. I don’t say that we want to eliminate them. National security is important to Dad and I remind him that the less we need to depend on overseas oil, the better.
He still poo-poos it all, but he’s a lot less strident about it than he used to be.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 13, 2021 16:11:16 GMT
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 13, 2021 16:14:37 GMT
We do use oil/petroleum for a lot. More than what people realize.
It is prudent to lessen our reliance on oil as it will run out eventually.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 13, 2021 16:17:59 GMT
We do use oil/petroleum for a lot. More than what people realize. It is prudent to lessen our reliance on oil as it will run out eventually. Correct, but it should not be needed for most vehicles, home heating and plastic bags, industrial or manufacturing. A friend bought me a few things at SuperFresh and they use bags made from corn. The important thing is to use the least of what is needed, not more. |
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Post by keriwest on Jun 13, 2021 16:26:07 GMT
As we shut down US pipelines and decrease our consumption of US oil, our foreign enemies will have plenty of oil to sell to us to cover the need.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,040
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jun 13, 2021 16:33:04 GMT
What does he think will happen when the oil runs out? What's the plan to keep the power going? Without even considering the climate change aspect, how is it envisaged that businesses, homes, hospitals, transport will have power twenty, fifty years from now. In the UK they have been planning for decades to take coal powered plants off the grid, May 2021 shows coal made up 1% of the mix, down from 21% five years ago. www.nationalgrideso.com/great-britains-electricity-explained-monthly-insightsAll around me I see solar panels being added to homes and businesses. There is an end date on new diesel and petrol cars being sold, I think off the top of my head, 2030. A quote from a BBC article about Britain's cleanest energy day to date BBC Great Britain's electricity system was the greenest it had ever been at lunchtime on Easter Bank Holiday Monday, its operator has said. Sunny and windy weather, coupled with low demand for power, led to a surge in renewable sources of energy, National Grid Electricity System Operator said. It meant low-carbon energy sources made up almost 80% of Britain's power. There was no coal generation on the grid and just 10% of power was from gas plants, the operator added. The National Grid Electricity System Operator (ESO) said levels of carbon pollution for each unit of electricity consumed dropped to just 39 grams of carbon dioxide - the lowest ever recorded for the grid - at 13:00 BST on Monday. It said wind power made up 39% of the energy mix, with solar at 21% and nuclear accounting for 16%. ____ in my mind, countries making plans to survive without fossil fuels will have an advantage in the years ahead. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 16:49:39 GMT
in my mind, countries making plans to survive without fossil fuels will have an advantage in the years ahead. That is exactly how I feel too. BUT non oil products are expensive. Oil is essentially cheap, and efficient. Hence I believe why the US keeps up it's big use. We can barely afford health insuance in the US, let alone an electric car. |
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Post by Zee on Jun 13, 2021 16:55:14 GMT
What does he say when you point out that oil is a finite resource and looking ahead for other fuels means a stronger future with less dependence on foreign oil?
At one time, trees were the main source of heating and building. We started to run out of trees and had to find other, more efficient fuels such as coal and oil. Now it's time to look for other renewable resources.
Whether you're liberal or conservative makes no difference, these are the facts. Fossil fuels can't last forever.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 31, 2024 23:03:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 17:06:58 GMT
Honestly, I'd leave him to it. He doesn't want to believe anything different and you're just winding yourself up.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 13, 2021 17:10:46 GMT
Honestly, I'd leave him to it. He doesn't want to believe anything different and you're just winding yourself up. This is the tactic I'm employing at this time with all the ignorant I'm surrounded with. If it was my DH, I'd for sure employ the shrug and have good sex instead. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 13, 2021 17:14:09 GMT
What does he say when you point out that oil is a finite resource and looking ahead for other fuels means a stronger future with less dependence on foreign oil? At one time, trees were the main source of heating and building. We started to run out of trees and had to find other, more efficient fuels such as coal and oil. Now it's time to look for other renewable resources. Whether you're liberal or conservative makes no difference, these are the facts. Fossil fuels can't last forever. Except now the UK decided they didn't want to use coal and started burning trees again and we're clearcutting our forests to send them biomass.  Despite increased carbon dioxide emissions vs coal - it's "carbon-neutral" as we're replanting trees - so in a few hundred years it'll equal out. I am all for better efficiency - I'm all for renewable resources - I'm all for decreasing our reliance on fossil fuels - I'm not for smoke and mirrors that negatively impacts our environment, but let's another country claim it's using renewables as in a few hundred years you're "neutral" www.pri.org/stories/2018-06-20/uk-s-move-away-coal-means-they-re-burning-wood-us |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 17:14:34 GMT
Honestly, I'd leave him to it. He doesn't want to believe anything different and you're just winding yourself up. Here's the thing. I know that, BUT I feel like I've finally found my voice with stuff like this, and I WANT to wind myself up. I'm sick of being passive. That's just me right now. In a few yrs things might be different. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 17:15:11 GMT
This is the tactic I'm employing at this time with all the ignorant I'm surrounded with. If it was my DH, I'd for sure employ the shrug and have good sex instead. ahhhhhh...what?!! blink blink |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 17:18:14 GMT
increased carbon dioxide emissions vs coal - it's "carbon-neutral" as we're replanting trees - so in a few hundred years it'll equal out. I am all for better efficiency - I'm all for renewable resources - I'm all for decreasing our reliance on fossil fuels - I'm not for smoke and mirrors that negatively impacts our environment, but let's another country claim it's using renewables as in a few hundred years you're "neutral" www.pri.org/stories/2018-06-20/uk-s-move-away-coal-means-they-re-burning-wood-usinteresting. My dh is a logger. He doesn't cut trees for burning. He cuts it for paper and TP. He's very knowledgeable on these subjects. For every tree they cut, they replant a larger number. Are we working on other sources for TP and paper? |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 13, 2021 17:43:05 GMT
This is the tactic I'm employing at this time with all the ignorant I'm surrounded with. If it was my DH, I'd for sure employ the shrug and have good sex instead. ahhhhhh...what?!! blink blink Some things aren't worth having an argument over. If my DH has different views on an issue I don't care. I would ask yourself what your intent is? What do you hope to accomplish? And what is the likelihood that you are actually going to accomplish it. Or are you just causing yourself grief that drives a wedge between you? And on the flip side I wouldn't hesitate to say to him, I don't care to hear your political views either I feel it just drives a wedge between us. And he should respect that too. If he was racist, misogynistic, homophobic I wouldn't be with him in the first place. So my comments do not apply to that scenario. |
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Post by NanaKate on Jun 13, 2021 18:26:25 GMT
This is the tactic I'm employing at this time with all the ignorant I'm surrounded with. If it was my DH, I'd for sure employ the shrug and have good sex instead. ahhhhhh...what?!! blink blink Ignorant = those with a different opinion??? Wow… |
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Post by hopemax on Jun 13, 2021 18:37:43 GMT
"You're right, there is a lot of things we need petroleum for. That's why its important we don't waste our petroleum resources on the things we have viable alternatives for. So that we will have enough for the important things for which we don't."
Like money. If we spend it willy nilly whenever we see something that strikes our fancy, we won't have it for the critical and important things. It's one thing to use something, and another to be wasteful about it.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 13, 2021 18:43:45 GMT
ahhhhhh...what?!! blink blink Ignorant = those with a different opinion??? Wow… I don't know when ignorant got labeled an insult. There are a lot of things I'm pretty ignorant about. And I don't take offense to that label. Ignorant=uneducated, unstudied, poorly formed opinions. At least that's how I used it. Different does not equal ignorant. I think there are nuances to the climate change discussion and if you can't have a reasonable discussion then it's not worth discussing. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 13, 2021 18:56:54 GMT
ahhhhhh...what?!! blink blink Ignorant = those with a different opinion??? Wow… is not talking about people here!! More then a few of us deal with trumpets in real life. That is far more then different opinions!! |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 31, 2024 23:03:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 19:05:24 GMT
If your marriage wasn't already in trouble, printing off some stuff to show your spouse how stupid you think he is ought to do it.
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Post by magellen on Jun 13, 2021 19:18:45 GMT
increased carbon dioxide emissions vs coal - it's "carbon-neutral" as we're replanting trees - so in a few hundred years it'll equal out. I am all for better efficiency - I'm all for renewable resources - I'm all for decreasing our reliance on fossil fuels - I'm not for smoke and mirrors that negatively impacts our environment, but let's another country claim it's using renewables as in a few hundred years you're "neutral" www.pri.org/stories/2018-06-20/uk-s-move-away-coal-means-they-re-burning-wood-usinteresting. My dh is a logger. He doesn't cut trees for burning. He cuts it for paper and TP. He's very knowledgeable on these subjects. For every tree they cut, they replant a larger number. Are we working on other sources for TP and paper? Just adding: some paper companies in the USA actually grow their own trees for paper. |
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,314
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jun 13, 2021 19:23:15 GMT
We do use oil/petroleum for a lot. More than what people realize. It is prudent to lessen our reliance on oil as it will run out eventually. I think the biggest problem with that argument is that we've been hearing it for decades and decades. I am close to 54 now and I can remember hearing about running out of natural resources since I started grade school. Not that it's not true but eventually the argument has less impact because people who've heard for 50 years plus MAY not believe it will happen. Plus some folks just can't look at that far ahead, some just look to what will happen in their own lifetime. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 19:47:05 GMT
If your marriage wasn't already in trouble, printing off some stuff to show your spouse how stupid you think he is ought to do it. WOw. ok, where do I start? it's not to show how stupid he is. It's to help him understand other points of info. He works in a heavy equipment machine all day. He doesn't get exposed to a lot of other opinions of info out there. I've changed his mind on a few things over the yrs. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 19:48:38 GMT
Some things aren't worth having an argument over. If my DH has different views on an issue I don't care. I would ask yourself what your intent is? What do you hope to accomplish? And what is the likelihood that you are actually going to accomplish it. Or are you just causing yourself grief that drives a wedge between you? And on the flip side I wouldn't hesitate to say to him, I don't care to hear your political views either I feel it just drives a wedge between us. And he should respect that too. If he was racist, misogynistic, homophobic I wouldn't be with him in the first place. So my comments do not apply to that scenario. To ME, this is worth an argument, and I DO care. My intent again, is to show him other opinions and other scientific facts. If he reads the info and it doesn't change his mind, that's on him. I've done my part. I don't believe in just being a passive participant. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 19:49:17 GMT
Just adding: some paper companies in the USA actually grow their own trees for paper. Yes, I know this, He cuts for some of these companies. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 13, 2021 19:50:11 GMT
I think the biggest problem with that argument is that we've been hearing it for decades and decades. I am close to 54 now and I can remember hearing about running out of natural resources since I started grade school. Not that it's not true but eventually the argument has less impact because people who've heard for 50 years plus MAY not believe it will happen. Plus some folks just can't look at that far ahead, some just look to what will happen in their own lifetime. BINGO! this is exactly what he said last night. |
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Post by hopemax on Jun 13, 2021 20:09:07 GMT
Of course, when we talk about "running out" we aren't talking about literally running out of oil. We're mostly talking about running out of CHEAP oil. What we, in our lifetime will experience will be cost increases. Like the ones goods are experiencing now due to other material shortages.
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Post by Really Red on Jun 13, 2021 20:09:14 GMT
ahhhhhh...what?!! blink blink Ignorant = those with a different opinion??? Wow… Science, while not exact, is not really someone's opinion. It is the gathering of facts and a decision by a group of experts to go down one path. It's not even a question of 99 out of 100 intellectual people who have studied this issue agreeing, it is 99% of people who study this who agree. Why on earth would I consider someone smart, intelligent, thought-filled or the like if they disagreed with that? I do consider them ignorant. I would give one giant caveat to that - they would have to be an expert with real data to back themselves up, but since I don't see that occurring, I am 100% behind jeremysgirl's terminology. |
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