CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
Posts: 3,825
Jun 26, 2014 12:56:40 GMT
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Post by CeeScraps on Jun 7, 2022 18:27:53 GMT
This whole incident just frustrates and saddens me to no end. I was teaching in IL when Laurie Dann shot up a Northshore school. Laurie Dann It hasn't stopped. Today, on the afternoon news show a teacher who was shot 3 times spoke up. He had told his kids to act like they were asleep and he would do the same. He saw the gunman. Gunman entered his class, shot teacher 3 times (many surgeries already). Gunman shot and killed his whole class. Then the gunman hid behind the teacher's desk. The teacher watched the gunman leave his room and go and shoot more kids. He said his kids were sitting ducks by being all under their desks. So.......my take away is that they kids need to be scattered throughout the room in pairs. Something besides all together in one spot.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 7, 2022 18:33:14 GMT
I think all of the kids in the room were sitting ducks no matter where they were in that room. When Columbine happened, we practiced sitting quietly in one space. The rooms were locked and the kids were away from windows if at all possible. Bullets could have gone through our walls though. Classrooms all over the US are so different and I don't think there is a good way for kids to be safe. After about 10 years of safety drills, the police came in and taught us how to fight back and get the kids out of the building.
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Post by Merge on Jun 7, 2022 18:34:22 GMT
This whole incident just frustrates and saddens me to no end. I was teaching in IL when Laurie Dann shot up a Northshore school. Laurie Dann It hasn't stopped. Today, on the afternoon news show a teacher who was shot 3 times spoke up. He had told his kids to act like they were asleep and he would do the same. He saw the gunman. Gunman entered his class, shot teacher 3 times (many surgeries already). Gunman shot and killed his whole class. Then the gunman hid behind the teacher's desk. The teacher watched the gunman leave his room and go and shoot more kids. He said his kids were sitting ducks by being all under their desks. So.......my take away is that they kids need to be scattered throughout the room in pairs. Something besides all together in one spot. If the gunman has free rein to walk around as he pleases because the police aren’t doing their jobs, does it really matter how the kids are grouped? We’re told to group them out of sight of the door/window and there’s often only one spot in the classroom that meets that requirement. Once the gunman is inside the room, not much you can do. The guns are the problem. There is nothing schools or teachers can do that will be consistently effective against a guy with an AR-15 and body armor who has nothing to lose. It seems there’s nothing even the police can do. The guns are the problem.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 22:03:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 18:35:09 GMT
This whole incident just frustrates and saddens me to no end. I was teaching in IL when Laurie Dann shot up a Northshore school. Laurie Dann It hasn't stopped. Today, on the afternoon news show a teacher who was shot 3 times spoke up. He had told his kids to act like they were asleep and he would do the same. He saw the gunman. Gunman entered his class, shot teacher 3 times (many surgeries already). Gunman shot and killed his whole class. Then the gunman hid behind the teacher's desk. The teacher watched the gunman leave his room and go and shoot more kids. He said his kids were sitting ducks by being all under their desks. So.......my take away is that they kids need to be scattered throughout the room in pairs. Something besides all together in one spot. Let me rephrase that for you... "So.....my take away is that there should be NO GUNS for civilians and all others who use them for work need to check them in before they clock out for the day."
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Post by malibou on Jun 7, 2022 18:36:17 GMT
I just can't wrap my head around this senseless violence against children. That teacher will never be the same in so many ways. Wishing them a full recovery from their physical injuries and a really good Dr to help them with the mental part.
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Post by papersilly on Jun 7, 2022 18:38:21 GMT
So.......my take away is that they kids need to be scattered throughout the room in pairs. Something besides all together in one spot. you are probably right but it's hard to fight that strength-in-numbers mentality. it just feels so vulnerable to be alone or in a pair. ugh, it just makes me sick to think these poor kids have to prepare like this when their only job should really be to just be a kid.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,661
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Jun 7, 2022 18:38:53 GMT
So.......my take away is that they kids need to be scattered throughout the room in pairs. Something besides all together in one spot. When I was working part time retail, our training for a hostile intruder was everyone hide in different spots, no one be together, because it upped our chances of survival.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,661
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Jun 7, 2022 18:47:44 GMT
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Jun 7, 2022 21:11:13 GMT
We have active shooter training this fall. I'm curious as to any changes we may have. I think I'd rather have smoke bombs or something to distract a shooter rather than just throwing books. I think some of the things we are asked to do are somewhat done to make us feel better and not as helpless. I feel like my only protection is being on the second floor. So sad.
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ellen
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,501
Jun 30, 2014 12:52:45 GMT
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Post by ellen on Jun 7, 2022 21:57:59 GMT
We had training on how to evacuate our building in the event of an armed intruder. My take away from it was that the teachers on the upper level of our school are screwed. There is no way we can quickly and safely evacuate our building. We lock our doors, but a gunman can shoot out the window to enter. There are few places to hide 20+ students. We'd have to hope they opt not to enter our rooms. It's pretty sad that when there is a school shooting some of the first things we hear is how the people who were in the building could have done more to prevent being murdered. I just don't think the can of wasp spray I was given is going to cut it when up against an AR-15.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 22:03:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 22:01:38 GMT
So sad. It is just so sad. There is so much that could be done to help prevent these situations. Keep doing what you can think of...I emailed my congress people. I vote. I pray. I cry.
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Post by Merge on Jun 7, 2022 22:17:44 GMT
We had training on how to evacuate our building in the event of an armed intruder. My take away from it was that the teachers on the upper level of our school are screwed. There is no way we can quickly and safely evacuate our building. We lock our doors, but a gunman can shoot out the window to enter. There are few places to hide 20+ students. We'd have to hope they opt not to enter our rooms. It's pretty sad that when there is a school shooting some of the first things we hear is how the people who were in the building could have done more to prevent being murdered. I just don't think the can of wasp spray I was given is going to cut it when up against an AR-15. Don’t worry - the shooter will go to my room (first on the left past reception) before he ever goes upstairs. And from there he can go to the art room, and the gym and dance rooms … 😳
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Post by monklady123 on Jun 7, 2022 22:36:34 GMT
We had training on how to evacuate our building in the event of an armed intruder. My take away from it was that the teachers on the upper level of our school are screwed. There is no way we can quickly and safely evacuate our building. We lock our doors, but a gunman can shoot out the window to enter. There are few places to hide 20+ students. We'd have to hope they opt not to enter our rooms. It's pretty sad that when there is a school shooting some of the first things we hear is how the people who were in the building could have done more to prevent being murdered. I just don't think the can of wasp spray I was given is going to cut it when up against an AR-15. Don’t worry - the shooter will go to my room (first on the left past reception) before he ever goes upstairs. And from there he can go to the art room, and the gym and dance rooms … 😳 I was thinking just this when I subbed recently in the 1st grade class that's the very first one after the front door. And yesterday in pre-K, which is on the 1st floor but down the hall and around the corner from the 1st grade hallway, the other teacher and I spent some time discussing what could be moved in front of the door to slow down a shooter. She said she'd already planned on pushing a heavy wooden storage unit in front of the door, while the other teacher corralled the kids between the cubbies and the wall. Yes, all in a bunch because how do you tell pre-k kids to hide alone or even with one other kid? It's absolutely horrible that we are having these conversations.
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Post by Merge on Jun 7, 2022 22:53:13 GMT
Don’t worry - the shooter will go to my room (first on the left past reception) before he ever goes upstairs. And from there he can go to the art room, and the gym and dance rooms … 😳 I was thinking just this when I subbed recently in the 1st grade class that's the very first one after the front door. And yesterday in pre-K, which is on the 1st floor but down the hall and around the corner from the 1st grade hallway, the other teacher and I spent some time discussing what could be moved in front of the door to slow down a shooter. She said she'd already planned on pushing a heavy wooden storage unit in front of the door, while the other teacher corralled the kids between the cubbies and the wall. Yes, all in a bunch because how do you tell pre-k kids to hide alone or even with one other kid? It's absolutely horrible that we are having these conversations. My door opens out. There is no way to block it from the inside. Hahaha. Sorry, I have a really dark sense of humor about all this. But yes, I hate that teachers have these grim little joking conversations about whose room is most in peril, knowing there’s not a damn thing we can do about it.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 7, 2022 23:29:29 GMT
We have active shooter training this fall. I'm curious as to any changes we may have. I think I'd rather have smoke bombs or something to distract a shooter rather than just throwing books. I think some of the things we are asked to do are somewhat done to make us feel better and not as helpless. I feel like my only protection is being on the second floor. So sad. We had a company come into our business to do an active shooter training. When the shooter saw you hiding, he just said, Bang. He left a gun shell by you. You knew you were dead. The people on the top floor decided to make a run for it and they found a second active shooter outside waiting for them all. My boss and I decided to roll her giant wooden table to the door. The guy did try to get in, but left for easier targets. When it was finished, my boss said she was impressed that I thought to put that honking piece in front of her door. I told her it was the first thing I thought about that table when I went in for the interview 2 years prior. Coming from the classroom, I tend to find the exit or safest place to hide if I am in place long enough.
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Jun 8, 2022 0:13:05 GMT
We have active shooter training this fall. I'm curious as to any changes we may have. I think I'd rather have smoke bombs or something to distract a shooter rather than just throwing books. I think some of the things we are asked to do are somewhat done to make us feel better and not as helpless. I feel like my only protection is being on the second floor. So sad. We had a company come into our business to do an active shooter training. When the shooter saw you hiding, he just said, Bang. He left a gun shell by you. You knew you were dead. The people on the top floor decided to make a run for it and they found a second active shooter outside waiting for them all. My boss and I decided to roll her giant wooden table to the door. The guy did try to get in, but left for easier targets. When it was finished, my boss said she was impressed that I thought to put that honking piece in front of her door. I told her it was the first thing I thought about that table when I went in for the interview 2 years prior. Coming from the classroom, I tend to find the exit or safest place to hide if I am in place long enough. They haven't done that with us. We get them locked out of the room during the training, but they do make a lot of noise to get to us. The doors are always locked during the day. We use bars on them for drills. Evacuating for anything makes me skeptical for that reason.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Jun 8, 2022 0:19:59 GMT
When I taught in a small private school in MI, we had to do active shooter drills. We were lucky enough to have a bathroom in each classroom ( which meant kids weren’t constantly in the halls) which we were supposed to hide in during a shooting. In reality though, I told the class I would simply open the back door and they should hide in the woodlands behind the school. I never let my 4th graders take their shoes off in the classroom for this reason. Now I live in Japan where no one carries guns, so the kids only do earthquake drills.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Jun 8, 2022 1:22:47 GMT
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 8, 2022 15:14:27 GMT
We had a company come into our business to do an active shooter training. When the shooter saw you hiding, he just said, Bang. He left a gun shell by you. You knew you were dead. The people on the top floor decided to make a run for it and they found a second active shooter outside waiting for them all. My boss and I decided to roll her giant wooden table to the door. The guy did try to get in, but left for easier targets. When it was finished, my boss said she was impressed that I thought to put that honking piece in front of her door. I told her it was the first thing I thought about that table when I went in for the interview 2 years prior. Coming from the classroom, I tend to find the exit or safest place to hide if I am in place long enough. They haven't done that with us. We get them locked out of the room during the training, but they do make a lot of noise to get to us. The doors are always locked during the day. We use bars on them for drills. Evacuating for anything makes me skeptical for that reason. The drill where we hid anywhere in the building and some ran outside was for a business and not at a school. The guys had real rifles and hearing them outside the door and hearing Bang! and knowing a shotgun shell was left by your teammate was a lot scarier than I thought it would be.
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Post by Merge on Jun 8, 2022 15:21:27 GMT
They haven't done that with us. We get them locked out of the room during the training, but they do make a lot of noise to get to us. The doors are always locked during the day. We use bars on them for drills. Evacuating for anything makes me skeptical for that reason. The drill where we hid anywhere in the building and some ran outside was for a business and not at a school. The guys had real rifles and hearing them outside the door and hearing Bang! and knowing a shotgun shell was left by your teammate was a lot scarier than I thought it would be. I would 100% refuse to participate in a training like that.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 8, 2022 15:25:38 GMT
The drill where we hid anywhere in the building and some ran outside was for a business and not at a school. The guys had real rifles and hearing them outside the door and hearing Bang! and knowing a shotgun shell was left by your teammate was a lot scarier than I thought it would be. I would 100% refuse to participate in a training like that. There were a few who opted out. It was just too stressful for them. We were just supposed to go about our afternoon and know that at some point we'd here something that told us to get out or hire. I felt like I was in a good place for the drill, and I knew that no one was getting inside the locked room with the huge table in front of it. I actually feel way more exposed in schools. Very few places to hide if you have even one other kiddo with you.
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Jun 8, 2022 15:42:45 GMT
They haven't done that with us. We get them locked out of the room during the training, but they do make a lot of noise to get to us. The doors are always locked during the day. We use bars on them for drills. Evacuating for anything makes me skeptical for that reason. The drill where we hid anywhere in the building and some ran outside was for a business and not at a school. The guys had real rifles and hearing them outside the door and hearing Bang! and knowing a shotgun shell was left by your teammate was a lot scarier than I thought it would be. That would be frightening! Wow.
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
Posts: 3,825
Jun 26, 2014 12:56:40 GMT
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Post by CeeScraps on Jun 8, 2022 19:59:34 GMT
My girlfriend has gone through the shooting drills. She is a wreck at the end of them. They are tough, very tough to go through.
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ellen
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,501
Jun 30, 2014 12:52:45 GMT
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Post by ellen on Jun 8, 2022 21:28:26 GMT
We had training on how to evacuate our building in the event of an armed intruder. My take away from it was that the teachers on the upper level of our school are screwed. There is no way we can quickly and safely evacuate our building. We lock our doors, but a gunman can shoot out the window to enter. There are few places to hide 20+ students. We'd have to hope they opt not to enter our rooms. It's pretty sad that when there is a school shooting some of the first things we hear is how the people who were in the building could have done more to prevent being murdered. I just don't think the can of wasp spray I was given is going to cut it when up against an AR-15. Don’t worry - the shooter will go to my room (first on the left past reception) before he ever goes upstairs. And from there he can go to the art room, and the gym and dance rooms … 😳 All of the suggestions they have to improve safety can be so frustrating because all schools are so different. They kept talking about doors. When my school had an overnight break in several years ago, the perpetrator did not go through a door. They broke a window on the lower level and got right in. Unless we decide that our schools are going to be like prisons and the kids are locked inside buildings with high fences, someone is going to be able to get in if they want to. I also think it's interesting that so many people think there is an abundance of military veterans who would want to work school security. It kind of feels like people offer these 'solutions" because they know we aren't actually going to do anything. After Sandy Hook it became pretty clear to me that if someone wants to get in a school and start shooting, they'll be able to do it. I get the gallows humor too. I have one year teaching left and it is really going to suck if I'm murdered at my job in my 34th year of teaching.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jun 8, 2022 21:52:41 GMT
It comes down to accepting the fact that the people who run our country have decided that no number of dead children and adults is worth angering a minority that wants the right to any weapon, any time, any place.
If your school comes under attack, survival will come down to sheer luck. Where does the shooting start? Are you in the bathroom at the time, or locked in a room during your prep hour? Or are you out on campus supervising lunch or recess? Will you hear it in time to evacuate, or will you be surprised by being one of the first victims.
You'll die, or you won't. Your kids will die, or they won't. The rest of America will say "oh, so sad, thoughts and prayers, we must do something to stop this." And then the people who run the place will pretend to care for a little while and everyone will move on. The usual suspects will be blamed - the video games, fatherless homes, doors, lack of doors, not enough guns on school campuses, too many guns on school campuses.
And in the end, you will either be dead and your family will be left to mourn your loss or you will live with the trauma.
Because this is how America has chosen to be.
At any time, the people keeping changes to the laws could be removed from office. But they won't, because the people who vote for them like what they do.
Your life as a child or as a school employee means nothing to anyone outside of your own family and friends. Sandy Hook showed us that 26 wasn't a high enough number to make any changes.
Maybe if you really want change, you should start arming the LGBTQ community, the Muslims, POC, the migrant caravan. But taking guns away from the type of people who do these mass shootings is off the table.
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Post by peanutterbutter on Jun 8, 2022 22:14:06 GMT
Making our schools fortresses is not the answer (although obviously increasing safety measures is never a bad thing). If they become impossible to access, the gunmen will simply turn to other venues, as they sometimes already have. Malls, concerts, walmart, parking lots, public streets, it won't matter to them, so many other things have to change. Increased mental health treatment accessibility (and decreasing the stigma that goes along with that), stricter gun laws, red flag laws....
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 8, 2022 22:24:01 GMT
My girlfriend has gone through the shooting drills. She is a wreck at the end of them. They are tough, very tough to go through. I have to say that I am glad we don't put the kids through them. It was challenging enough to do it as an adult that was only responsible for myself. Our drills consisted of a morning class explaining the mind of most killers, the guns they use, how to get them off the person and how the afternoon experience would go. We met the "gunman" and he told us exactly how it would go down with him saying bang. After the drill, we all got back together (about 100 of us), and people shared what they learned and it really was beneficial. I just cannot fathom doing this with kids though (never heard of kids doing these kinds of drills).
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Post by Merge on Jun 8, 2022 23:57:04 GMT
My girlfriend has gone through the shooting drills. She is a wreck at the end of them. They are tough, very tough to go through. I have to say that I am glad we don't put the kids through them. It was challenging enough to do it as an adult that was only responsible for myself. Our drills consisted of a morning class explaining the mind of most killers, the guns they use, how to get them off the person and how the afternoon experience would go. We met the "gunman" and he told us exactly how it would go down with him saying bang. After the drill, we all got back together (about 100 of us), and people shared what they learned and it really was beneficial. I just cannot fathom doing this with kids though (never heard of kids doing these kinds of drills). Our time would be better spent writing letters to our representatives to enact meaningful gun control. I sat through a similar training in private school a few years ago (minus the “killing” of individuals - we teachers lobbied for and were successful in having that part taken out). We were not allowed to opt out. My anxiety was not well controlled at the time and I sat in the back, emailing my representatives about what we were being forced to go through and what they needed to do to stop it. I deeply resent sitting in a room listening to men who probably vote for Republicans (and who are definitely making money from these trainings) tell me how to try to disarm a guy with an AR-15 using a stapler.
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