|
|
Post by wrongwayfeldman on Jul 22, 2022 18:10:36 GMT
I don't know how to title this, and I'm going to do my absolute best to ask this as concisely as possible.
DH and I have a son who's trans. Everyone we know is clear about this part of our family, and have been for over 8 years. He's doing as well as can be expected with the hate in our country and I am continually amazed at how happy he appears most days. He has recently changed his academic/career path to include a move out of our very shitty homophobic state to a different part of the country that is more inclusive and safe, which is a just another reminder to me how angry I am that my own kid can't just f*ing choose where he wants to live without having to consider his sexuality or gender identity.
As I get older and more educated, I have less and less patience for those in this town and specifically in my social circle that vote to further marginalize the community my son is a part of. I am struggling to reconcile that I myself have made choices in the past that have not taken into consideration other humans and their fights in order to protect my own interests. I feel like I have evolved quite a bit and I have this expectation that other people should be evolving at the same rate. Typing that out, I realize how ridiculous that sounds. I need help to work through this.
When I come across a person, I immediately wonder how they vote. How they stand on particular social justice issues. I find it difficult to not have a physical, gut reaction of disgust when I know someone that I know personally is a trump supporter, or doesn't believe in freedom of choice, or won't stand up for the rights of LGBTQ+ people. I keep telling myself that not all people are ALL GOOD or ALL BAD, and I really do put in a lot of effort to educate people if I think my words or experiences might make a small difference. Sometimes I can just walk away and know that I can't put the energy in, and sometimes I try extra hard. Sometimes I see that my willingness to meet them where they are and try to chip away a bit at a time at their misunderstanding of a particular group makes a difference, and that's encouraging: I learn from them, they learn from me, and that feels like success in some small way most times.
My DH has a different approach and that is where I feel lost. He is fine to interact with absolutely everyone. Friendly as can be. It never occurs to him to wonder how a friend might vote against our own child's rights, and he's quite oblivious to the fact that it drives me crazy. He has no interest in politics, and even goes so far as to ask me who he should vote for at each and every election. He even writes down the candidates names that I support before he heads to the polls so he won't forget who he's "supposed to choose." That's how little effort he puts into social activism. I knew he was that way when I married him and I didn't think anything of it, and I realize it makes me pretty hypocritical now to expect him to change simply because I finally woke up when it became time for me to advocate for my trans son. I myself should have been advocating for the rights of marginalized people a hell of a long time ago, and I sat just as complacent then as those that drive me bananas sit now.
DH, just to be clear, supports our son and his community 100%. He participates in local fundraisers and community walks, volunteers with me at the the local LGBTQ youth center in our town, and makes his support clear every time he drinks a beer with this buddies using his Pride flag coolie cup. When I point out something to him about a particular social injustice, he feels genuinely disappointed, but he is an eternal optimist and belief that things always get better. He would never stand by and let someone be bullied or discriminated against in his presence, and has stood up for people on lots of occasions, but he doesn't think about it much beyond the moment.
When he hangs out with this one particular friend, I just can't get myself to be as understanding as I think I should, and that's where I need more help. This friend is a clear trump supporter, voiced his appreciation for the recent SCOTUS nominations solely because they were anti-choice, and yet knows DH and I have a trans son that will be negatively impacted, like SO MANY OTHERS, by these recent decisions. DH once had a conversation with this friend about a joke the guy made that was offensive, and the guy brushed it off, half-assed apologized, and they moved on. DH invites him to hang out with him once in a blue moon, so it's not like this dude is in my face all the time, but WHY CAN'T I GET OVER THIS? I would hit the roof if DH tried to control who I hung out with, and DH hangs out with other people that are probably just like this guy, but since I clearly KNOW where this person stands, I just don't want to have anything to do with him. DH, on the other hand, is simply unbothered.
This is clearly my problem. I'm the one having an issue getting past this and I don't know what kind of self-talk I can try to help myself. Please, if you've read this far and you have any advice at all, I would love to hear it. I'm so tired of trying to balance drawing some kind of line about agreeing to disagree on issues and at the same time feeling so angry that I have to.
|
|
|
|
Post by dizzycheermom on Jul 22, 2022 18:19:09 GMT
Just my opinion here of course, but I don't think you have to get over it.
Can we just agree to disagree - yes, sure when it comes to pineapple on pizza or what show you like. But I can't overlook that someone has no regard for human rights! I can't overlook that someone is actively against abortion rights, LGBTQ+ rights, BIPOC rights, etc.
I have a trans nephew and will not get over it.
|
|
peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,841 
|
Post by peppermintpatty on Jul 22, 2022 18:20:50 GMT
You said that you can't change your dh at this point to care. Accept that you cannot change anyone else. All you can do is support your child. Will distancing yourself from everyone who doesn't feel the same way make any difference in the long run, other than isolating you? My dh is the same way. He can see past most everyone's issues and see the bigger picture. I have a harder time with it. There is only one person that my dh hates with a passion. It takes a lot to rile him up.
It is sad what this country has come to and I'm sorry that your son has to move away from you to feel like they are in a safe place.
I wish I had a tried and true way to let things like this go. I just try to avoid any political chatter around certain people. If people try and bait me, I just politely walk away or say that I am choosing not to engage in a political conversation with them.
The joke is not okay. Both dh and I would have said something to that individual. If they didn't like it, they are free to leave.
|
|
|
|
Post by librarylady on Jul 22, 2022 18:29:24 GMT
If you are getting too angry--remind yourself that you were once at the place where this man (and many others are).
You were clueless as to what hurts and offenses were being done to that community (or all the other groups that have the ugliness of society pointed their way). Just as you had to learn and change--he has to learn and change, he just has not done it yet.
Many never will change. Leave the ones with closed minds alone. If you DH hangs out with him ever so often, ignore it and do something you like while they are together.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Jul 22, 2022 18:34:46 GMT
Does the Trump supporting asshole show up at your house or do you have to see him often? If not, I wouldn't raise a big stink.
When you do see him I wouldn't bait him, but if he brought up something hateful I wouldn't let it go unchallenged. I wouldn't go all in, but I would firmly say something along the lines of "what you said is not ok, please don't say anything about ... again".
I would also do everything in my power not to be around him and I wouldn't invite him to my home or event I was hosting.
I don't think you should do anything about your husband's relationship with him beyond limiting your personal exposure to him.
I think you should at least be glad your husband asks you who to vote for, I know we have peas who have husbands that cancel their personal votes!
|
|
|
|
Post by LiLi on Jul 22, 2022 18:38:39 GMT
Would you make an exception if you replace the LGBTQ idea with POC? No. Right? Same thing, in my opinion. I have zero tolerance for racism, I also have zero tolerance for bigotry, or acceptance of it. You don't have to get over it, your feelings are valid. This may be a marital, "us' problem, but it isn't "your problem." Perhaps a compromise would be you never having to deal with, see or hear, anything about this friend?
|
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,151
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jul 22, 2022 19:09:16 GMT
I can somewhat relate to your dh in that I am not very political at all. I pay enough attention to know some issues and who gets my vote, but that's about it.
But if a particular friend has made remarks that are offensive and clearly and blatantly supports things I have an issue with I would have a lot of the feelings you're having. I think in cases like this it's ok to tell dh this guy is a no go in your life. If my dh felt the need to continue a relationship with him, he'd be asked not to bring him around or mention him to me. Sometimes that's the best you can do in some situations.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 15, 2024 17:04:38 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2022 19:39:19 GMT
I think society needs more ethical/spiritual guidance on these situations. They are tough. I get worked up, too. I am buddhist and my "gurus" would say this is teaching you something - when you have big anger it is a time to pay attention. You sound like you are doing a great job!
I would seek spiritual guidance from a higher power/ counselor if you have one. I know my catholic priest of the past would recommend forgiveness and humility, keep helping those impacted by hate as you are doing...Anger is an important spiritual guide in my opinion but also hard on you physically. So I would exercise to release some of it...I hope you get useful ideas from this thread!
|
|
|
|
Post by peanutterbutter on Jul 22, 2022 19:39:22 GMT
I'm not sure I can express this clearly, I definitely understand where you're coming from and why you're having a struggle with it. There are a lot of people who just set me on edge because their beliefs are so opposite of mine, and they are very vocal and in my opinion sometimes misguided about it LOL but I have to play well because I'm their boss lol.
But I also think if we totally avoid those whose views are opposite of ours we don't ever get a chance to educate or normalize things for them. Some people are not ever inclined to open or change their minds, but sometimes being around those who have a different perspective or experience at least opens a little bit of dialogue or a little bit of thought for some people to a way of thinking that has not been their norm. It doesn't always have to be a lecture or a pounding of our own thoughts and feelings, but simply the norm. For example if I talk about a friend's daughter I may just say Susie and her girlfriend instead of saying well you know Susie's gay and that means she has a girlfriend, simply referring to them naturally as I would any male and female couple.
I met somebody yesterday who was clearly born a biological male, but dressed in feminine clothes. This person has some differences that affects their social interactions. I asked them what their name was as we were playing a game together, and they said "they call me susie" ( not the name they used). My sincerest wish for them is that someday they are able to say "I am Susie" instead of "they call me" . But the more people who normalize it by introducing them as Susie without explanation or call them Susie on a daily basis as they see them, hopefully it will just be the norm as that individual goes about their daily life, and others will be able to gain in their own growth and acceptance.
|
|
kate
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Location: The city that doesn't sleep
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
|
Post by kate on Jul 22, 2022 20:20:15 GMT
This is a tough one. I 100% validate your feelings of frustration and anger at Dh's pal. My $.02 since you asked for advice is to reframe how you see DH's interactions with the Jerk. DH may be doing really important work by (as peanutterbutter said) silently educating - normalizing what might otherwise seem "strange and scary" (I know, I know - BIG eyeroll here!) to the Jerk. DH is modeling that not all pro-LGBTQIA families are militant, aggressive, and out to get the Jerk. Proximity, just the side-by-side living of life, is HUGE in opening people's minds. By telling off and/or cutting the Jerk out of your lives, he's more likely to persist in his views. Disclaimer: I'm not in any way condoning the Jerk, or am I saying you're obligated to "take one for the team" and put up with him. I'm just suggesting a way to think about your DH's relationship with him that might give you a little more peace of mind. |
|
|
|
Post by mcjunkin on Jul 22, 2022 22:09:00 GMT
jeremysgirl had a recent post update to a similar situation. There were interesting perspectives on there.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Jul 22, 2022 22:29:40 GMT
My DH is a lot like yours, wrongwayfeldman and he has quite a few friends like your DH’s friends that really set me on edge. I will totally validate you. Just today DH did some work at a newish neighbor’s house. He came home telling DD and me about the neighbor’s two DDs who are just a bit older than our DD, saying maybe she could get to know them so she’d have someone in the neighborhood to be friends with. (All the other kids in the neighborhood are boys and none are in our kid’s grade since her BFF moved away.) Then he said, “Oh, by the way, the neighbor guy is running for House of Representatives…and he’s Republican.”  Oh. YAY. I could feel myself getting judgemental just listening to DH describe this guy and I’ve never even met the dude. Not only that, but I don’t even WANT to get to know this guy. I remember seeing the Trump 2020 signs on their gate, so yeah, he’s THAT kind of Republican. No thanks. |
|
paigepea
Drama Llama
Enter your message here...
Posts: 5,609
Location: BC, Canada
Jun 26, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
|
Post by paigepea on Jul 22, 2022 23:14:38 GMT
I think in your own life you need to realize that you only have a small circle of influence and banging your head against the wall for others who don’t care to understand your point of view are just a waste of energy. Perhaps find other ways to feel like you’re making a difference through activism or volunteer work. I just don’t think that having a political conversation with everyone you encounter daily is worthwhile or helpful.
As far as dh’s friend goes. I think you can have a right to question the friendship. Generally I’d say oh let it go but in this situation this person is blatantly ignorant and I would have a hard time socializing with someone dumb. As long as dh keeps this guy at a distance and he isn’t a bestie I’d let it go. But I’d probably feel irritated at dh choosing to socialize with someone with such different values.
There are many groups of people who feel fear. I’m about to send my child off to a university campus in the next couple of years and I worry about the growing antisemitism. We have been educating her about campus antisemitism in the hopes that she’ll have the means to educate others. I’m sorry for what your son is going through.
|
|
|
|
Post by ameslou on Jul 23, 2022 4:10:38 GMT
I think you're asking for suggestions about how to reframe your thoughts.
IDK if this will be helpful bc it's not specifically about the topic that's heavy on your heart, but here goes. I have for years (prob my entire adult life) struggled with trying to make things exactly perfect, measuring what I've done against an internal yard stick of whether or not it's "good enough". Most of the time it hasn't felt good enough, and then I get in this terrible cycle of self judging with a side car of self disgust. With some age and wisdom I've learned to ask myself "Am I making this too complicated?", which is a way to take a moment and decide if The Thing is worth the mental and physical energy that I'm putting into it at that particular time on that particular day. Some times the answer is "No, I'm not making this too complicated. I need to put in the effort", but lots of times the answer is "Yes, I'm making this too complicated. What is good enough for right now?" Perhaps you could use your own set of questions to help you decide when it's worth putting in the energy to engage with others and when it's not worth the energy. The act of asking yourself a question may be enough for your mind to let go of the anger in the moment and save your energy to fight another day.
You and your DH remind me a bit of my own marriage. Of the two of us, I'm far FAR more "judgy". I have high standards and I think everyone else ought to live up to them. I get snarky and judgmental when they don't. My DH has an ability to pretty much accept other people exactly the way they are, and doesn't spend his time thinking about how they should be different than they are. At times I admire this about him, and at times I don't. I will say that I think he's more at peace with himself than I am with myself.
|
|
|
|
Post by mymindseyedpea on Jul 23, 2022 8:43:46 GMT
It sounds like you’re looking for balance?
To keep this friend of your DH’s from tipping you to one side?
(Tv just said “on the left side”)
Does this mean that the friend is tipped on one side?
I personally believe balancing is when you integrate both sides.
Like how trans integrate their feminine and masculine side where they become one.
It’s like I’m allergic to the “either or”
Voting to me feels like choosing one side or the other.
I’m not against anyone who votes.
Or else I would be a hypocrite.
I voted once when I become old enough.
When I registered again, they denied my signature.
You mentioned good and bad.
Who’s to judge which is which?
The Universal Law of Relativity?
I know I may sound like I’m coming from out of a Conversations With God book, but it makes sense, at least to me.
Even when it comes to abortion rights. I believe there’s a world possible where conceiving can only happen if it’s agreed at a soul level between the two. Things less possible than that have happened.
The most memorable photo I have seen in politics was a person holding a flag with our current president’s name and another person holding a flag with our last president’s name shaking hands with eachother.
(Tv just said we’re in this together)
I align with unity, so if you’re looking for balance that’s a “good” place to be ☺️
|
|
|
|
Post by disneypal on Jul 23, 2022 10:55:50 GMT
I have learned to be more like your DH, I don’t think about other’s political views and try to judge them based solely on their actions and how they live their life and treat others. You don’t have to accept him, just done be around when he is and avoid him when possible.
|
|
seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,423
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
|
Post by seaexplore on Jul 23, 2022 14:43:58 GMT
@disneylpal I’m a lot like you too. I try to get along with everyone as long as they are kind to people.
I have a coworker who is very right, pro life no matter the situation, trump was the best president. I keep her in my life because we have interesting (sometimes frustrating) conversations. She is a very good person even if my beliefs are not the same as her. She has a DD who came out to her many years ago and she was beside herself because it was not in her realm of understanding. I looked her in the eye and said, “You have 2 choices, love her for who she is and accept her for all she is or lose your child.” It’s been a very long road for her with this issue. Her DD got married and she attended but refused to say “wedding”, it was “ceremony”. She refused to cal her DD’s wife her “wife or spouse” but called her “friend” or “partner”. Recently, she has started saying that her DD is married and calling her spouse “wife”. Yes, she does eyeroll a bit but she has grown. I am proud of her. It’s seriously been 15+ years for this growth and feelings to change.
|
|
|
|
Post by KiwiJo on Jul 23, 2022 14:45:27 GMT
I think it is important to remember that every single person is multi-dimensional - they think and behave in far more ways than simply with regard to gender, or politics, or race or ethnicity, or anything else.
The staunch Republican supporter might volunteer at the local dog rescue facility, while the Democrat supporter might drown the litter of kittens that her cat has.
The person who makes fun of a trans person might spend hours every week happily caring for his elderly parents, while the neighbour who is so accepting of trans might be secretly siphoning funds from her elderly parents’ bank account.
An exercise I have found useful is to spend time coming up with my top 5 core values - the ways of thinking & behaving that I would not go against, no matter what. The spin-off of doing so is that it helps me see that everyone has different core values, and that is ok.
People can think very differently to ourselves in ares we think are very important, yet still be good people.
|
|
|
|
Post by chances on Jul 23, 2022 16:21:50 GMT
It sounds like you’re having a natural threat response. Looking around and knowing that so many people around you are actively trying to harm your child and everyone is acting that nothing is wrong sounds like an anxious nightmare. My view is that referring to things as “just politics” and “different beliefs” is a form of gaslighting which only amps up the anxiety. It kind of reminds me of people who tell victims of various types of abuse to “just forgive” or “forgiveness will bring you peace.” The victim now has to be the bigger person and suppress valid feelings of rage or is seen as a problem. It sounds like your combining two issues.
1. The recognition your child is in danger and the world is unsafe socially and physically. I would see if you can find a support group, maybe online as a place to work through the completely legitimate emotions of fear, worry, guilt, anger. Suppressing those feelings with platitudes won’t help.
2. The second part is how to live in a world with people who are okay with the state of things. I honestly think actively getting involved- lobbying, donating, whatever might help. I think other posters had some good ideas of navigating social situations. I have less advice here, but there are articles and YouTube videos about how personal experiences of people struggling that might help. I have given *numerous* pep talks/ listens to black people who are crying after another police murder and can’t pull themselves out of bed but have to go to work where they will inevitably hear remarks that diminish their fear and anger. Unfortunately, you’re not alone. It may help to hear other people’s stories.
|
|
|
|
Post by SockMonkey on Jul 23, 2022 16:44:39 GMT
It sounds like you’re looking for balance? To keep this friend of your DH’s from tipping you to one side? (Tv just said “on the left side”) Does this mean that the friend is tipped on one side? I personally believe balancing is when you integrate both sides. Like how trans integrate their feminine and masculine side where they become one. It’s like I’m allergic to the “either or”
Voting to me feels like choosing one side or the other. I’m not against anyone who votes. Or else I would be a hypocrite. I voted once when I become old enough. When I registered again, they denied my signature. You mentioned good and bad.
Who’s to judge which is which?
The Universal Law of Relativity?
I know I may sound like I’m coming from out of a Conversations With God book, but it makes sense, at least to me. Even when it comes to abortion rights. I believe there’s a world possible where conceiving can only happen if it’s agreed at a soul level between the two. Things less possible than that have happened. The most memorable photo I have seen in politics was a person holding a flag with our current president’s name and another person holding a flag with our last president’s name shaking hands with eachother. (Tv just said we’re in this together) I align with unity, so if you’re looking for balance that’s a “good” place to be ☺️ Denying other people's humanity is decidedly bad, I don't care what God, spirit or power you believe in. You also have fundamental misunderstandings about people who are transgender. |
|
Oh. YAY. I could feel myself getting judgemental just listening to DH describe this guy and I’ve never even met the dude. Not only that, but I don’t even WANT to get to know this guy. I remember seeing the Trump 2020 signs on their gate, so yeah, he’s THAT kind of Republican. No thanks.
