Circadian rhythm..can it change?

My Dh is a night-owl who has to get up at 3:00 am for work. I can say that he is able to do it during the week, but definitely slips into his night-owlness when he isn't working.

I think it can be forced temporarily, but honestly I don't think it can be permanently changed. At least among adults. I know kids are different, but I think once we get to be adults we stick with our preferences. Kind of like Myers-Briggs Introverts... We can force ourselves to act like Extroverts but once we're done being extroverty we go right back to introversion. lol

I'm an early-to-bed-up-with-the birds person. If I absolutely have to stay up late I can but I have to dose myself with coffee. And I'm miserable the whole time. This is why I LOVE Zoom meetings. Seriously. Church meetings are now on Zoom so even if they're at night I can attend with my PJ bottoms on, and when the meeting is done I can just roll into bed rather than having to get in my car and drive home in the dark. lol

I've been a night owl and insomniac my entire life.

My "early" is up between 8:00am to 10:00am.....and it's only because I have to for work.
For me, rising early is forced and makes me feel out of sorts.
I struggle with a day schedule and usually have to nap once or twice a week, depending on my days off.

I think there are many who are "forced" to change circadian rhythms because of work or School schedules. But if not on a schedule, natural night owls gravitate right back to a night schedule.

For me personally......Staying up until 2:00am to 4:00am, then sleeping (on and off) until 10:00am to noon, would be my ideal sleep pattern.
Disclaimer: I never get a solid eight hours of sleep. My sleep is always in increments of 2-4 hours, then up to use bathroom, then sometimes back to sleep, sometimes toss and turn then sleep, sometimes no sleep and get up for an hour or two.
I need a total of eight hours+ to feel rested and not tired. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

I’ve worked nightshift (1900-0730) for 19+ years of my 26 year career. Was a night owl since I was an infant, per my mom. I think night owls tend to do the best when it comes to the later shifts. I studied it a lot (in an attempt to optimize my health and stay on that shift) and tried different hacks for years, starting in 2009. What I’ve learned from my own experience is that leaning into my natural “clock” tends to be better than trying to go against it. I struggled every time I tried to “be a dayshifter” for any length of time. No part of me wants to (or can) fall asleep by 10pm.

I believe we can ALTER our natural patterns, and there is a lot of science behind that now, but I don’t know that we can actually change them. I feel we can shift them and make them work better for us for prolonged periods of time, though. There are many ways.

This is a go-to guy on this subject at the moment, Andrew Huberman.  He’s amazing and knows his stuff. If you don’t find the answers to your question in this episode, I guarantee you’ll find them in one of his. His IG acct and podcasts are gold mines of information - and not just on this subject, but on the many facets of overall health. He just said on an IG live I watched last week that:

“Sleep is THE foundation of physical health, mental health, and performance.”

…and I agree! It doesn’t hurt, either, that he’s easy on the the eyes.  Hope this helps someone.


 youtube.com/watch?v=h2aWYjSA1Jc&feature=share

I think this is why the time change is harder for some people. We are not just changing our sleep pattern for a couple of days and then going back to our old pattern. We have to completely change our pattern/rhythm for the time changes.

I have always been an inveterate night owl. But as I've gotten into my 60s, I've found I don't (can't) sleep late enough to make up for it. This was making my life unpleasant, so I began to force myself to go to bed early enough to get at least 6-7 hours of sleep, e.g. 12 midnight instead of 2-3am. This worked last winter, but this summer I noticed I was drifting back into my regular sleep pattern and using coffee to stay awake.

My circadian rhythms changes very easily, but not in a good way. I am a night owl, always have been, always will be. I just function better in the late evening early morning. But it often changes to me being awake ALL night and sleeping during the day when I go through a manic cycle. Then I got a job where I was required to be there at 6 am 5 days a week. It wasn’t fun but I was able to do it. But I wasn’t Suzy Sunshine at that time. Unless I’m manic I never am in the am.

I am a night owl, but also don’t really sleep late.  I have issues with sleep and always have.  I work 2nd shift and have for over 20 years.  

Prior to this 20 year stint, I worked at a Bank for 15 years where I started in the check/transaction processing area. We started at in the afternoon and went until finish…which could be before midnight or 2 or 3 in the morning or later depending on the volume of transactions to process and balance. I then moved to the supervisor/manager position which was more day hours and it was a very difficult transition and I never felt totally comfortable with those hours.

Short answer is I think you can alter it but not sure that you can actually change it…at least I have never been able to.

I don't even know what my natural rhythm would be because I've been so affected by bipolar disorder.  My sleep was affected so much before I was on medicine I would alternate between 10-12 hours of sleep during depression to 3-4 hours of sleep when I was ruled by mania.  And never any consistency.  It's only now while I've been on medication that I've had any stability.  For years, I was on medicine that made it very hard to wake up in the morning.  But the past 4 years, I've been on a medicine that doesn't make me groggy like that anymore and I am 9pm in bed and 5am awake every single day. 

I think you can adapt to waking up early, but your optimal productive time stays the same. After having kids, I can't sleep past 7:30 but I'm not at optimal level at all. My most productive window is between 10 am-3 pm and that has never changed from college regardless of the time I've gone sleep/woken up.

The one I hear often is that I am wasting away my day by sleeping in late. I tell them (and yes, it is one particular friend), I get 7-8 hours of sleep just like you do, how am I wasting away my day? They will then mention how much they get done from 6AM-8AM, and I shoot back at them how much I get done from 10PM-Midnight.

They can absolutely change. I remember when I was at college I would easily sleep til 11 or noon. I made fun of one of my roommates for getting up at 9 am. I used to plan my classes only for afternoons because I literally could not be up before it was almost lunchtime.

Now? I'm a 6 am riser - when I "sleep in" it's til 7. Maybe 7:30.

This is 100% me!  And now that my daughter is grown, this is my daily schedule.  I do have to get up earlier occasionally for appointments and other things.  If I have to get up early, I usually have to take a nap.

I wish I could have a normal schedule, but even though I am constantly tired no matter how much sleep I get, this is what works best for me.