edie3
Drama Llama
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Post by edie3 on Jan 25, 2023 23:56:32 GMT
screwed up on so many levels.
At around 11:15 to 11:30 a.m., Zwerner went to a school administrator and told them that the 6-year-old had threatened to beat up another child that day. The administration did not take action or remove the student from the classroom, according to Toscano.
At 12:30 p.m. a teacher told a school administrator she searched the 6-year-old's backpack for a gun and told the administration that she believed the boy put the gun in his pocket before going outside for recess. The administrator downplayed the report and responded that the boy has little pockets, according to Toscano.
Shortly after 1 p.m., a third teacher told administrators that another student who was scared and crying confessed that the shooter showed him a gun at recess and threatened to shoot him if he told anyone, according to Toscano.
A fourth employee asked the administrator for permission to search the boy but was denied and was told to wait the situation out because the school day was almost over, according to Toscano.
Zwerner was shot almost an hour later, according to Toscano.
She is now home recovering, "but the road to recovery will be long," Toscano said.
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Post by myshelly on Jan 26, 2023 0:05:28 GMT
Absolutely not surprised.
When kids physically fight at my husband’s school, the school doesn’t do anything.
He had a kid bring a knife to school and threaten another kid with it before Christmas break. The aggressor is back in the classroom like nothing ever happened.
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Post by Merge on Jan 26, 2023 0:09:23 GMT
Yup. We had a fifth grader bring a “kill list” to school with the names of students and teachers and what type of gun he would use to kill each. He was suspended for a week and that’s it. Back in school.
The taxpayers of that district are going to pay a hefty amount in whatever settlement the teacher is awarded. Maybe they’ll get mad enough to vote to change some gun laws.
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Post by Lexica on Jan 26, 2023 0:10:28 GMT
That is horrible! I hope the teacher who was shot has recourse against the administration for how poorly they handled the situation. A few seconds of patting this child down would have changed this entire situation. Thank God the teacher didn't die. Do we know how badly she was hurt? Will she eventually return to full use of her body and mind?
I am not usually one for suing, but in this case, yes, it is warranted.
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Post by melanieg on Jan 26, 2023 0:11:26 GMT
"Zero tolerance" means nothing in schools according to my sister who had to deal with a threat made on my niece.
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Post by amp on Jan 26, 2023 0:12:23 GMT
Well, at least the Newport News superintendent and the school assistant principal resigned:https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/newport-news/richneck-elementary-assistant-principal-resigns-dr-ebony-parker/291-14be1409-022c-4502-b0cd-2b6984f30f94 With good reason: www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/newport-news/abby-zwerner-lawyer-to-file-lawsuit-against-newport-news-public-schools-richneck-shooting/291-b123a065-dfda-4143-a8f0-05ee263d38dbI lived in that school district in 1996, my son was scheduled to attend that school, when we moved to a better school district 25 minutes away. My son has graduated college now, but I am so grateful to have gotten away from there. A lot of nice people live in my old neighborhood. I hope that big changes are made due to this lawsuit. Edited to add: this was a boy with huge emotional problems who previous to this day, only allowed to be in school if one of his parents there, at the school, sitting with him. I can't remember why they weren't there on that day. |
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 26, 2023 0:17:04 GMT
This is a direct result of state officials and federal officials for education more worried about expulsions and what not than true student and staff safety.
Every year dh's school district went over what state and county officials told them about their too many expulsions and punishment to to students because they were looking out on learning AKA THE SCHOOLS WERE LOOSING MONEY.
Follow the money trail. Higher ups don't care about safety.
All the care about is money and funding.
Suspensions and expulsions are bad business for schools.
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Post by fkawitchypea on Jan 26, 2023 0:17:08 GMT
Not surprised here. DS was assaulted in middle school by a child who had a special education designation because of his "rage disorder". I call it that because I only got that from the kids. Because of privacy reasons I was not allowed to know what the other student's punishment was. When I picked him up to take him to the ER for his broken hand that was slammed in a door, I only knew because the sign out sheet stated picked up due to fight for the other child. He was back in school the next day because he was not allowed to be suspended. So many kids need extra help at school, there are some that use it to excuse bad behavior. The school failed this teacher and I hope she sues.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Mystie on Jan 26, 2023 0:23:16 GMT
Yup. We had a fifth grader bring a “kill list” to school with the names of students and teachers and what type of gun he would use to kill each. He was suspended for a week and that’s it. Back in school. The taxpayers of that district are going to pay a hefty amount in whatever settlement the teacher is awarded. Maybe they’ll get mad enough to vote to change some gun laws. This is actually the district I live in, it happened a couple miles from my house. Our city is pretty solid blue/Democratic leaning, but we have a terrible gun violence problem, like most places. It seems like when these things happen, wherever they happen, they rattle and upset the community but then things just go right back to normal, except for the traumatized, the injured, the dead, and the people who love them. It doesn't seem like enough to care, to vote, or even to organize and work for change. The national societal will to take action was lost a long time ago. I can't understand it. I have a niece who's majoring in education and passionate about becoming a teacher and I'm deeply worried for her. |
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Post by Lurkingpea on Jan 26, 2023 0:23:53 GMT
Terrible. I know our school has several violent children. Nothing is really done. They trash classroom once a week. Never sent home. Teacher just has to take rest of class out of room and call someone to wait violent kids out. Kids go to cafeteria or outside when it happens.
I wish something could be done.
I understand LRE but when does the safety of other students and staff trump that.
I hope teacher is ok. I cannot imagine the mental stress she must be under. I wonder if she will return to teach.
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Post by Merge on Jan 26, 2023 0:43:11 GMT
This is a direct result of state officials and federal officials for education more worried about expulsions and what not than true student and staff safety. Every year dh's school district went over what state and county officials told them about their too many expulsions and punishment to to students because they were looking out on learning AKA THE SCHOOLS WERE LOOSING MONEY. Follow the money trail. Higher ups don't care about safety. All the care about is money and funding. Suspensions and expulsions are bad business for schools. The movement away from OSS/expulsion came about with good intentions, as these kind of punishments were often used disproportionately more often against students of color than white students for similar infractions. But yes, there’s a funding aspect to it as well. I dislike when people say “it’s all about the money” because that seems to imply that someone in the schools is getting rich from the per-student allotment, though I realize you didn’t mean it that way. If public schools were appropriately funded, with smaller class sizes and adequate mental health resources, I feel like we could both reduce violent incidents and expel (or recommend alternative placement) without fear of the loss of funding. But that’s all just a pipe dream, I know. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 26, 2023 1:14:33 GMT
I think there is room for improvement on the part of the school in this situation, but I also can understand that schools are between a rock and a hard place. Zero tolerance sounds like a good idea, but isn't as easy to apply as it sounds. First, the problem students have a right to education as well. And the way that things are currently, it seems that having an IEP often means that they are given many more chances than they should be because there aren't other options for their education. IF kids do get moved to a different setting, parents complain that their kids aren't getting a good education or can't see their friends. There also is a lack of alternative settings for kids to go to, especially younger kids.
The issues within schools themselves need to be addressed, but we also need to look at why there are so many kids who have behavior and/or mental health problems in the first place.
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Post by birdy on Jan 26, 2023 2:13:21 GMT
Terrible. I know our school has several violent children. Nothing is really done. They trash classroom once a week. Never sent home. Teacher just has to take rest of class out of room and call someone to wait violent kids out. Kids go to cafeteria or outside when it happens. I wish something could be done. I understand LRE but when does the safety of other students and staff trump that. I hope teacher is ok. I cannot imagine the mental stress she must be under. I wonder if she will return to teach. This infuriates me! Not just from the standpoint of safety of students and staff but also the interruption to education for the students who have to be taken out of the classroom to another location until the student calms down. Where are those children rights? I am a former teacher turned sub and just went back this year after a 2 year break due to covid. The things I see in the classroom in relation to the rights of 1 student vs. the rights of the rest of the class is so unfair. I'm glad my kids aren't in elementary school anymore or else I would very seriously remove my child and homeschool. |
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edie3
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,476
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Post by edie3 on Jan 26, 2023 2:52:23 GMT
It's so sad all the way around. I have no answers.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jan 26, 2023 13:35:02 GMT
Well, at least the Newport News superintendent and the school assistant principal resigned:https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/newport-news/richneck-elementary-assistant-principal-resigns-dr-ebony-parker/291-14be1409-022c-4502-b0cd-2b6984f30f94 With good reason: www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/newport-news/abby-zwerner-lawyer-to-file-lawsuit-against-newport-news-public-schools-richneck-shooting/291-b123a065-dfda-4143-a8f0-05ee263d38dbI lived in that school district in 1996, my son was scheduled to attend that school, when we moved to a better school district 25 minutes away. My son has graduated college now, but I am so grateful to have gotten away from there. A lot of nice people live in my old neighborhood. I hope that big changes are made due to this lawsuit. Edited to add: this was a boy with huge emotional problems who previous to this day, only allowed to be in school if one of his parents there, at the school, sitting with him. I can't remember why they weren't there on that day.I havent heard that - this is the first time I've heard ANYTHING mentioned about his parents, except that his mom had purchased the gun legally. Just wondering, have you heard if they are going to charge the parents with anything? Where is the boy now? I am shocked at all the warnings that were ignored. Ok, threatening to beat up another kid - I'd be on alert, but there must be more if another teacher wanted to search the child for a gun. Then when another child confessed to seeing the gun? Game over, the school should have been locked down immediately. WTF: "just wait it out, the day is almost over?" WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jan 26, 2023 13:41:03 GMT
Terrible. I know our school has several violent children. Nothing is really done. They trash classroom once a week. Never sent home. Teacher just has to take rest of class out of room and call someone to wait violent kids out. Kids go to cafeteria or outside when it happens. I wish something could be done. I understand LRE but when does the safety of other students and staff trump that. I hope teacher is ok. I cannot imagine the mental stress she must be under. I wonder if she will return to teach. This infuriates me! Not just from the standpoint of safety of students and staff but also the interruption to education for the students who have to be taken out of the classroom to another location until the student calms down. Where are those children rights? I am a former teacher turned sub and just went back this year after a 2 year break due to covid. The things I see in the classroom in relation to the rights of 1 student vs. the rights of the rest of the class is so unfair. I'm glad my kids aren't in elementary school anymore or else I would very seriously remove my child and homeschool. I have 2 friends, one has a boy who was like the violent kid described above. 3rd grade, would have tantrums, huge fits, and destroy the classroom. Another friend had a daughter in the class. Everytime this happened, the teacher would call for help and the CLASS would be removed, not the boy. This was at the elementary school my kids attended (they are long gone tho). Eventually, my friend with the son had to homeschool her son. Her husband is military and stationed in Va Beach and only home on weekends, but during the week she was a wreck. She'd post pics of her kid all smiles and playing legos, but she blames the SCHOOL for PTSD to her son!  This year he is in a special program at another school. She hasn't said much of how he is doing. My friend with the daughter in the class was so frustrated bc all the "grace, patience and understanding" they were asked to give really hindered her daughter's learning. She felt like an asshole advocating for anyone else in the class. Why does that one boy get all the rights and the rest of those kids had to suck it up and deal? If anyone had PTSD, it should have been the class.  |
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
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Post by CeeScraps on Jan 26, 2023 13:54:16 GMT
Yup....the real world doesn't know how the support is lacking for the teacher........chairs fly, kids removed. Books thrown, kids removed...on and on and on. We had classes of children that weren't taught as they were constantly being moved into another classroom. Which really translated into 2 classes not getting their education on anything but how to leave/enter a room.
Kudos to the this teacher for sharing the details. The school I'm sure is just spinning. I hope parents throughout the US take notice of this horrible situation.
Someone should start a GoFundMe for her to pay her legal expenses along with any medical that doesn't get covered.
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CeeScraps
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~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
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Post by CeeScraps on Jan 26, 2023 14:03:24 GMT
"Zero tolerance" means nothing in schools according to my sister who had to deal with a threat made on my niece. It doesn't translate to anything but paperwork. Then paperwork is supposed to be done to document everything. Well.......it might be written somewhere but never posted/shared/recorded. Yup games.....all games. Then when a teacher questions where is the paperwork no one can seem to find it. Just a game..........a game where education suffers. A game where both the students and teachers suffer. Admin seems to feel it's ok to do this so their numbers look good. Who do they need to look good for........the school board and public. Where in reality ask the staff............ |
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Post by amp on Jan 26, 2023 14:40:59 GMT
Well, at least the Newport News superintendent and the school assistant principal resigned:https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/newport-news/richneck-elementary-assistant-principal-resigns-dr-ebony-parker/291-14be1409-022c-4502-b0cd-2b6984f30f94 With good reason: www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/newport-news/abby-zwerner-lawyer-to-file-lawsuit-against-newport-news-public-schools-richneck-shooting/291-b123a065-dfda-4143-a8f0-05ee263d38dbI lived in that school district in 1996, my son was scheduled to attend that school, when we moved to a better school district 25 minutes away. My son has graduated college now, but I am so grateful to have gotten away from there. A lot of nice people live in my old neighborhood. I hope that big changes are made due to this lawsuit. Edited to add: this was a boy with huge emotional problems who previous to this day, only allowed to be in school if one of his parents there, at the school, sitting with him. I can't remember why they weren't there on that day.I havent heard that - this is the first time I've heard ANYTHING mentioned about his parents, except that his mom had purchased the gun legally. Just wondering, have you heard if they are going to charge the parents with anything? Where is the boy now? I am shocked at all the warnings that were ignored. Ok, threatening to beat up another kid - I'd be on alert, but there must be more if another teacher wanted to search the child for a gun. Then when another child confessed to seeing the gun? Game over, the school should have been locked down immediately. WTF: "just wait it out, the day is almost over?" WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even though I live in the area, I get all my information from local news stations. I read the part you bolded in a local newpaper...I have to go find that link...but here is an article quoting that statement for now: technorati.com/news/read/article/newser-family_boy_6_who_shot_teacher_has_acute_disability-rnewsersyn/vendor/Newser They aren't saying anything about the child's location now, although originally they said they put him in a hospital for psychiatric care. I don't know which one, or if it is a mental hospital or the psychiatric ward of one of the local hospitals. They aren't talking about the parents, at all. The mother has retained a well known expensive local attorney, and nothing has been said about charges against her. But as the parent of a child (who is an adult now, but still...) who almost attended that school, I know I would be so upset if my son attended that school when the incident happened, I would be talking with other parents about a class action law suit against the school board, the school administration, etc. That is outrageous...and shows that they do not care about those students. Period. As you said, WTF: "just wait it out, the day is almost over?" WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone, including a child, could have died!!! |
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gensmith
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Jun 2, 2020 8:49:08 GMT
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Post by gensmith on Jan 26, 2023 15:11:26 GMT
This is so crazy how it was handled. Surely it wasn’t the same administrator that had 4 people come to them with concerns and ignored it?
My daughter is a preschool teacher and has dealt with even kids that young being violent. It’s so unfair to the other kids and it takes so much to have them removed. Then they also have to deal with a lot of parents that get mad.
She use to have bruises all up and down her legs from 3 and 4 year olds kicking her. She’s been kicked, hit, pinched, slapped in the face, spit on, bitten and had things thrown at her. She’s been there 8 years and has learned how to defend herself a little better but it still happens sometimes to her and other students. I don’t know how she does it.
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
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Post by CeeScraps on Jan 26, 2023 16:12:52 GMT
This is so crazy how it was handled. Surely it wasn’t the same administrator that had 4 people come to them with concerns and ignored it? My daughter is a preschool teacher and has dealt with even kids that young being violent. It’s so unfair to the other kids and it takes so much to have them removed. Then they also have to deal with a lot of parents that get mad. She use to have bruises all up and down her legs from 3 and 4 year olds kicking her. She’s been kicked, hit, pinched, slapped in the face, spit on, bitten and had things thrown at her. She’s been there 8 years and has learned how to defend herself a little better but it still happens sometimes to her and other students. I don’t know how she does it. I don't know this....it easily could have been the same administrator. EASILY.......yes admin ignore A LOT. AN AWFUL LOT. Like I said, someone may document things, but the documentation can and does easily disappear. |
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
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Post by RosieKat on Jan 26, 2023 16:26:47 GMT
"Zero tolerance" means nothing in schools according to my sister who had to deal with a threat made on my niece. Around here, it seems to totally depend on race. I do understand that administrators are caught in a trap in many ways, that if they do the tiniest thing wrong someone will be all over them, and that there is so much liability for everything. But...not to check the kid's pockets after a credible report of an actual gun, because it's close to the end of the day??? I know that we're just hearing one version of things, but I'm inclined to believe it. And I know admins are overworked, too, but an imminent safety issue is a stop, do not pass go kind of thing. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 26, 2023 16:49:02 GMT
"Zero tolerance" means nothing in schools according to my sister who had to deal with a threat made on my niece. Around here, it seems to totally depend on race. I do understand that administrators are caught in a trap in many ways, that if they do the tiniest thing wrong someone will be all over them, and that there is so much liability for everything. But...not to check the kid's pockets after a credible report of an actual gun, because it's close to the end of the day??? I know that we're just hearing one version of things, but I'm inclined to believe it. And I know admins are overworked, too, but an imminent safety issue is a stop, do not pass go kind of thing. I have to wonder if they were not as serious about it due to his age. It seems unbelievable that a kid that age would have a gun but clearly it's possible. Hopefully schools will take things seriously no matter the age after this happened. |
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Post by Merge on Jan 26, 2023 17:25:58 GMT
"Zero tolerance" means nothing in schools according to my sister who had to deal with a threat made on my niece. Around here, it seems to totally depend on race. I do understand that administrators are caught in a trap in many ways, that if they do the tiniest thing wrong someone will be all over them, and that there is so much liability for everything. But...not to check the kid's pockets after a credible report of an actual gun, because it's close to the end of the day??? I know that we're just hearing one version of things, but I'm inclined to believe it. And I know admins are overworked, too, but an imminent safety issue is a stop, do not pass go kind of thing. I don't believe the race of the child with the gun has been reported, but I have some uncharitable speculations about that based on my experience, which I'm sure is similar to yours. I also have some uncharitable speculations about the possibility of this boy's parents having at some point threatened legal action if any staff member "put a hand" on their child, which may have caused admin to be cautious. Again, all just speculation based on my experience. I'm not claiming any knowledge of this. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. |
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Post by deekaye on Jan 26, 2023 18:33:00 GMT
All of the timeline is alarming, but especially this:
"A fourth employee asked the administrator for permission to search the boy but was denied and was told to wait the situation out because the school day was almost over, according to Toscano."
WHAT??? So we should just let this child get on the bus, or wait for the bus, or walk home with other kids with a gun possibly in their possession?
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
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Post by RosieKat on Jan 26, 2023 20:20:38 GMT
I also have some uncharitable speculations about the possibility of this boy's parents having at some point threatened legal action if any staff member "put a hand" on their child, which may have caused admin to be cautious. I don't disagree. I was thinking that at a minimum, since there was some sort of agreement that a parent was supposed to be present with the kid every day, that there must be some sort of behavioral plan or IEP or something, and that may well spell out a lot of things along those lines. Maybe the kid isn't allowed to be lectured or talked to without a parent present or something. That just had definitely raised a big red question mark for me, that there was something not ordinary about the academic or behavioral plan for this kid. It is also weird to me that if a parent was supposed to be there every day, why hadn't there been one there that whole week? (according to something I read) |
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Jan 26, 2023 21:35:12 GMT
It is also weird to me that if a parent was supposed to be there every day, why hadn't there been one there that whole week? (according to something I read) Not long after this happened, I did read a news report that stated it was the first week they were attempting for the child to attend classes alone as part of a plan. Not sure I can find that article again, but will try in a bit. My thoughts are that if your child cannot attend class without a parent being in the class with them every single day, then they do not belong in a regular classroom. It's disrupting to the other children who have just as much right to a good education. Now because they were insistent on mainstreaming an obviously troubled child, an entire classroom of children have been scarred for life. I'm glad to see the teacher is suing, and would love to see the parents of the other students do a class action suit. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on May 10, 2023 19:03:57 GMT
So this story is back in the news, but I saw an article linked from April: www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/us/newport-news-trial-set-school-shooting/index.htmlI saw this was included: Ellenson (the mother's lawyer) told CNN he will cite Taylor’s several miscarriages, an ectopic pregnancy in January 2022 and post-partum depression as “mitigating factors.” WTF? Are they saying that because she had that going on, she wasn't paying attention to her son and making sure he couldn't access her gun?  According to the most recent article: www.cnn.com/2023/05/10/us/newport-news-virginia-school-shooting-adhd/index.htmlTaylor said that as a parent, she accepts responsibility for the shooting and apologized to Zwerner. “That is my son, so I am as a parent, obviously, willing to take responsibility for him, because he can’t take responsibility for himself,” Taylor said. |
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Post by aj2hall on May 10, 2023 20:25:06 GMT
I'm not sure which is worse. The lawyers for the school board are arguing that the teacher should expect to be shot as part of her job. Therefore, she's entitled only to workman's comp. www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/29/teacher-shot-first-grader-zwerner-lawsuit/a recent court filing by the lawyers who represent the Newport News School Board, the school system’s former superintendent and the former principal at the school where Zwerner worked argues otherwise. It describes teachers across the country as encountering violence from students and contends that the injuries Zwerner suffered in the shooting should be covered by workers’ compensation and not a lawsuit.
We have asked them to work with too little pay, in crowded classrooms, through a pandemic with children who need more mental health support than schools are providing. And, now, we are asking them to consider being stabbed in the neck or shot in the chest as part of their jobs.
Lawyers have a job to do, so it’s not surprising to see that filing try to point the finger away from the school system. But arguing that teachers should anticipate being maimed in their classrooms and that those who are injured should have no recourse beyond applying for workers’ comp feels wrong because it is wrong. It is a disgraceful deflection. |
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Post by Merge on May 10, 2023 20:51:53 GMT
I'm not sure which is worse. The lawyers for the school board are arguing that the teacher should expect to be shot as part of her job. Therefore, she's entitled only to workman's comp. www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/29/teacher-shot-first-grader-zwerner-lawsuit/a recent court filing by the lawyers who represent the Newport News School Board, the school system’s former superintendent and the former principal at the school where Zwerner worked argues otherwise. It describes teachers across the country as encountering violence from students and contends that the injuries Zwerner suffered in the shooting should be covered by workers’ compensation and not a lawsuit.
We have asked them to work with too little pay, in crowded classrooms, through a pandemic with children who need more mental health support than schools are providing. And, now, we are asking them to consider being stabbed in the neck or shot in the chest as part of their jobs.
Lawyers have a job to do, so it’s not surprising to see that filing try to point the finger away from the school system. But arguing that teachers should anticipate being maimed in their classrooms and that those who are injured should have no recourse beyond applying for workers’ comp feels wrong because it is wrong. It is a disgraceful deflection.I have nothing polite to say about the lawyers who thought up this defense, whether it was their job or not. School district lawyers making a defense that hurts teachers and will cause teachers to leave tells you everything you need to know about what’s important to the district. |
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This year he is in a special program at another school. She hasn't said much of how he is doing.
