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Post by compeateropeator on Apr 10, 2023 15:18:57 GMT
I am assuming you are talking about my post. I agree it is “kind of” an apples to oranges type situation…but not exactly. If you are that dependent on anything you must have backup plans in place. Shutting down for one day, if you have days built in, is not an issue. However what happens if the outage continues? You need to somehow pivot and continue on. That is the only intent in my comment, we (general we) seem to no longer try to prepare for unexpected issues. Saftey is the main issue and should be the focal point. If it requires people manning the doors, that may be a work around plan. I was just saying for school to shut down one day it isn't anything to get upset over. Not sting you were upset. There may be a work around plan but is it that imperative for one day? Who do you think would man doors? Schools don't have enough staff as it is. I just meant hospitals shut down isn't the same as school shut down. People can live without school one day. Our schools have shut down unexpectedly for deep cleaning after nori outbreaks. I also didn’t take your post as really a sting or hand slap…I am always happy (mostly 😉) to read follow up comments. I don’t often express myself well so often feel that I need to try and add more to explain what I am trying to say. 😄. Thanks for the responses.
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tracylynn
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Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 10, 2023 15:53:30 GMT
I am confused. Why can't can't you call 911 if the internet is down. The one reason we maintain a landline in our home is for when there is no power or internet, we got good old reliable landlines to use. The landline in the kitchen stands independent of the cordless phones too since they don't work with no power. If you have a landline that hasn't been turned into VOIP, and therefore down when the internet is down, then that's rare. I live in the middle of nowhere and I can't have a wired phone because my phone line is VOIP even in the middle of nowhere.
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Post by compeateropeator on Apr 10, 2023 15:59:38 GMT
I also want to add that I think this shows how important our network and cybernet security is. It needs to be take care of as if it is a necessity by everyone, even for small places like schools. It is on every person who votes on a school budget to get behind funding them properly if they want fully functioning schools. I don’t know what the answer is in the short term, but hopefully people putting money where it is needed will eventually be part of the answer.
ETA - I also still have a true landline…at least for now. 😄👍
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Post by sabrinae on Apr 10, 2023 17:51:32 GMT
I am confused. Why can't can't you call 911 if the internet is down. The one reason we maintain a landline in our home is for when there is no power or internet, we got good old reliable landlines to use. The landline in the kitchen stands independent of the cordless phones too since they don't work with no power. Many phone systems are now internet based. I work for county government and all of our phones are internet based. No internet or power means no phones. Our entire offfice system is internet based. I can’t access any information without internet. Makes for interesting days when the power or internet goes out.
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Jili
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Jun 26, 2014 1:26:48 GMT
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Post by Jili on Apr 10, 2023 18:28:18 GMT
It's more of a problem that it might seem at face value. It's easy to say that "they can read books and talk to each other", etc., but it's not that simple. So much is internet-based. As others have said, without internet there is no access to curriculum materials, projects in-progress, and teachers cannot print materials for students to use. We are a 1:1 district--each student has a school-issued iPad. The phones are also an issue, and probably security as well.
When we were part remote/part in-person, we had three days of outage. This was fine for the teachers who had remote classrooms. They were home. It was tricky for the classroom staff who were in the building. Every single thing they did, even though we were in-person, was internet-based because all classes taught the same curriculum, whether they were remote or in-person. Students home with Covid usually Zoomed into class (this was back when they were out for 10 days). On those days, they couldn't.
I served both populations of students, but was in the building because I had to be there for the in-person students. I blew through my personal hot spot allowance the first day, so I could see my virtual students. For the second day, I chose to stay home in the morning because I had more virtual students than in-person. I didn't see the in-person students. In the afternoon I went in for a very large meeting which was supposed to be virtual. At that time, that kind of thing was just not done. We were nervous but just all doubled up our masks. The superintendent finally called a remote day for everyone on the third day when he realized that teachers had been using their own phones as hot spots just to try to get any internet access at all. Our Principal had to convince him that it was just not right to expect the staff to provide their own internet access to keep the building running.
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RosieKat
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Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Apr 10, 2023 18:48:00 GMT
My grandson is a freshman and he doesn't have any books. Everything is done with his Chromebook and a program called Schoology. I honestly don't know what they would do if the internet was down. I hate that he doesn't have books, because it makes it very difficult for me to help him study. Same for my sophomore. When the internet is down, they pretty much sit around and do nothing. They aren't released from school, though, probably since our annual school time is accounted for by total minutes, not days. And all the classes rely on videos and online stuff - according to her, very few of her teachers ever actually open their mouths to teach. (Some certainly do! This isn't categorically dissing them all!) She has a chemistry class in which they've done no labs at all, and the teacher has only demonstrated one thing. Everything else has been "watch online." And we are a relatively rich district, with pretty decent facilities that aren't cutting edge but are certainly up-to-date. All quizzes, tests, etc. are 100% online so if the internet is down, there's nothing to be done - and of course, if goes down during the course of the day, the teacher couldn't even log on to print it out and copy it! Textbook access is only online. In fact, DD has a provision in her 504 for hard copy textbooks, and it's a hassle to even get those every year. (Not from admin, from the textbook czar who doesn't want to let any of them out of their control.) Of course, it's extra hard for her because she has a vision impairment that makes reading a lot of text online very hard and tiring, so even online testing is a challenge. There is certainly a place for videos and online labs and things like that, and I have no problem with some work being done online where it just makes sense. But the complete reliance on it by many is over-the-top in many cases.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Apr 10, 2023 18:55:02 GMT
I haven't even thought about the whole safety issue, or contacting parents, or any of that. I'm rather surprised I didn't as I'm well aware of the landline problem these days - we are unable to get a 100% landline phone here any more, even though we have the physical lines that we used when we moved in. It drives me crazy! My only kid in physical school is in high school, so everyone has cell phones, but it still doesn't seem like a good thing. Their internet is fairly reliable, but they do lose it sometimes, and it was down for a full day a couple of weeks ago.
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Post by bianca42 on Apr 10, 2023 20:46:18 GMT
I am confused. Why can't can't you call 911 if the internet is down. The one reason we maintain a landline in our home is for when there is no power or internet, we got good old reliable landlines to use. The landline in the kitchen stands independent of the cordless phones too since they don't work with no power. Very expensive for school districts to maintain landlines at all schools. Incredible waste of money. It isn't typically an issue. Cheaper to cancel school. We changed to internet phones at my work (50 lines) and saved thousands of dollars a month. We have a couple landlines for faxes and those have gotten even more expensive in the last year. I can't imagine how expensive it would be to maintain landlines at a large school district.
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Apr 12, 2023 1:52:30 GMT
I am confused. Why can't can't you call 911 if the internet is down. The one reason we maintain a landline in our home is for when there is no power or internet, we got good old reliable landlines to use. The landline in the kitchen stands independent of the cordless phones too since they don't work with no power. I don’t know if schools have packages with cable companies, but my home phone is through cable me when cable is out we don’t have a landline.
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moodyblue
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Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Apr 12, 2023 2:13:52 GMT
I am confused. Why can't can't you call 911 if the internet is down. The one reason we maintain a landline in our home is for when there is no power or internet, we got good old reliable landlines to use. The landline in the kitchen stands independent of the cordless phones too since they don't work with no power. If you have a landline that hasn't been turned into VOIP, and therefore down when the internet is down, then that's rare. I live in the middle of nowhere and I can't have a wired phone because my phone line is VOIP even in the middle of nowhere. I just got a phone call last week telling me that my copper line phone is on the way out as ATT is dropping support for those in my area. I had read about this happening but it hadn’t hit my region yet. Now it is.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 12, 2023 2:16:00 GMT
My grandson is a freshman and he doesn't have any books. Everything is done with his Chromebook and a program called Schoology. I honestly don't know what they would do if the internet was down. I hate that he doesn't have books, because it makes it very difficult for me to help him study. This is true for my kid’s middle school too. They don’t have any books at all, it’s all on their Chromebooks. Most of their daily work, quizzes and tests are all done online.
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Post by chaosisapony on Apr 12, 2023 3:05:03 GMT
I'm surprised but not at the same time. School is very different now than when I was a kid. What does surprise me though is that there was no backup plan in place. I would think that it would be a great tool for teaching kids about flexibility and a bit about how the rest of the world operates. When the internet goes out at work we don't get to go home, we find stuff to do. I don't know what grades are at this school but I feel like this is just a bit of a missed opportunity to teach other things. Go outside, do a nature/science type of lesson. Unplugging for a bit is a good thing. If these were young kids it was probably pretty disruptive for parents to try to scramble for child care too.
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Post by Zee on Apr 12, 2023 3:17:00 GMT
When the system goes down at the hospital I find I'm generally the only person on the floor who remembers paper charting lol. Only for my first couple of years, but I remember how cramped my hand would be after a bad night where I had to chart a lot.
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pudgygroundhog
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Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 12, 2023 3:26:22 GMT
I think it depends on the school. A lot of posts here make sense about why school would be cancelled. Our school didn't have internet for a few days, but we still had school. The middle school and high school rely on Google classrooms and online resources, but the teachers still do other learning without the computers. I think they could manage for a day or two - obviously an extended period without the internet would be more difficult. Plus, we burned through all of our snow days and a few extra, so they would be loathe to cancel school and have to make it up.
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Post by melanell on Apr 12, 2023 14:53:26 GMT
I am confused. Why can't can't you call 911 if the internet is down. The one reason we maintain a landline in our home is for when there is no power or internet, we got good old reliable landlines to use. The landline in the kitchen stands independent of the cordless phones too since they don't work with no power. We use VOIP for out landline and when our power goes out or the internet is down, we have no landline. If we had basic phone service from a phone company, it would be fine, but the VOIP internet based landline was much less expensive.
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Post by Jen in NCal on Apr 12, 2023 14:57:33 GMT
We had 2 days a few weeks ago with no internet and the third day was intermittent. I teach entirely on Chromebooks. I couldn't copy even if I had a master because the copiers require internet to log you in. We made do. Kids were allowed to hotspot if needed which they loved because it bypasses the screen spyware.
We also had days without power about a month ago. Went out on Wednesday afternoon and staff made due the rest of the day. School was cancelled the next day (along with about 10 of the other schools) but staff had to report to send kids home that didn't get the message. Power went out Friday afternoon again but we kept kids.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 12, 2023 15:11:53 GMT
We had 2 days a few weeks ago with no internet and the third day was intermittent. I teach entirely on Chromebooks. I couldn't copy even if I had a master because the copiers require internet to log you in. We made do. Kids were allowed to hotspot if needed which they loved because it bypasses the screen spyware. We also had days without power about a month ago. Went out on Wednesday afternoon and staff made due the rest of the day. School was cancelled the next day (along with about 10 of the other schools) but staff had to report to send kids home that didn't get the message. Power went out Friday afternoon again but we kept kids. My kid’s school wouldn’t be able to stay open without power for even half a day, primarily for security reasons. I don’t think the magnetic security door locks would work without power. On a somewhat related note, I worked at a large office supply chain store years ago. One day the power went out due to nearby road construction where an underground line was cut and wouldn’t be restored for the rest of the day. It quickly became apparent that we couldn’t just roll with it because all of the inventory, cash registers, etc. were all computerized. The store ended up closing for the rest of the day because it would have been a nightmare to try to somehow record and re-enter after the fact all of the items that would normally be sold that day, not to mention it was pitch dark at the back of the store with no windows so it was also a safety issue for customers and staff not being able to see where they were going.
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2023 15:26:14 GMT
We had 2 days a few weeks ago with no internet and the third day was intermittent. I teach entirely on Chromebooks. I couldn't copy even if I had a master because the copiers require internet to log you in. We made do. Kids were allowed to hotspot if needed which they loved because it bypasses the screen spyware. We also had days without power about a month ago. Went out on Wednesday afternoon and staff made due the rest of the day. School was cancelled the next day (along with about 10 of the other schools) but staff had to report to send kids home that didn't get the message. Power went out Friday afternoon again but we kept kids. My kid’s school wouldn’t be able to stay open without power for even half a day, primarily for security reasons. I don’t think the magnetic security door locks would work without power. On a somewhat related note, I worked at a large office supply chain store years ago. One day the power went out due to nearby road construction where an underground line was cut and wouldn’t be restored for the rest of the day. It quickly became apparent that we couldn’t just roll with it because all of the inventory, cash registers, etc. were all computerized. The store ended up closing for the rest of the day because it would have been a nightmare to try to somehow record and re-enter after the fact all of the items that would normally be sold that day, not to mention it was pitch dark at the back of the store with no windows so it was also a safety issue for customers and staff not being able to see where they were going. When we lose power, we have to stay open - some number of kids' parents will not be able to just come and get them in the middle of the day, nor would there be anyone at home to meet them off the bus. I can recall this happening only twice during my career. No lights, no internet, no A/C, super fun. Obviously you're just warehousing kids at that point but it has to be done when it happens mid-day.
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Post by Jen in NCal on Apr 12, 2023 16:00:16 GMT
My kid’s school wouldn’t be able to stay open without power for even half a day, primarily for security reasons. I don’t think the magnetic security door locks would work without power. On a somewhat related note, I worked at a large office supply chain store years ago. One day the power went out due to nearby road construction where an underground line was cut and wouldn’t be restored for the rest of the day. It quickly became apparent that we couldn’t just roll with it because all of the inventory, cash registers, etc. were all computerized. The store ended up closing for the rest of the day because it would have been a nightmare to try to somehow record and re-enter after the fact all of the items that would normally be sold that day, not to mention it was pitch dark at the back of the store with no windows so it was also a safety issue for customers and staff not being able to see where they were going. When we lose power, we have to stay open - some number of kids' parents will not be able to just come and get them in the middle of the day, nor would there be anyone at home to meet them off the bus. I can recall this happening only twice during my career. No lights, no internet, no A/C, super fun. Obviously you're just warehousing kids at that point but it has to be done when it happens mid-day. That's how it goes here. The first day we didn't release students so we had to stay open. It's an open campus so we don't have security cards. The phones would probably work in the classroom as they are archaic push button phones but the office main phones would be down.
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Post by huskermom98 on Apr 12, 2023 16:08:27 GMT
I missed that this happened to Rochester--same thing happened to our district in January.
Even though my boys are in high school & rely on their chromebooks, no internet seemed like a silly reason to cancel classes until I chatted with a teacher during a sports event the first day it happened. And it wasn't just "no internet" it was no access to anything that had been on district servers because they were shut down to prevent further access by the hackers...so: --nobody can print anything --nobody had anything to print because lessons were stored on the cloud --no access to student files which meant: -no health info (including food allergies during lunch or medications) -no emergency contact information -no access to IEPs & 504s -no access to busing info/routes --key cards did not work and only a select few had access to physical keys --fire system issues --so many more things that no one could have imagined...
Kids sat around not doing much the first day it happened, but were off the next couple of days. The district worked on getting vital systems back online & how teachers could teach. Everyone had to use hot spots for a couple of weeks before internet was restored (they are still having printing issues). They still haven't said if it was officially a ransomware attack or if they stopped it before it got that far. Either way it was a time consuming mess
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Post by sideways on Apr 12, 2023 16:32:30 GMT
Schools didn’t used to have electricity or plumbing, either. If there is an issue with either now, school is canceled.
That person has big “get off my lawn!” vibes,
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MerryMom
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Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Apr 12, 2023 17:01:23 GMT
The link clarified the school needed to close down their technology due to credible concern about a cyber-attack.
I would have no problem with my son missing a day of school versus going to school with security, card access, utilities, etc. being affected. School build in a buffer of “calamity” days to the school year.
I am not sure why the OP’s friend is so bent out of shape. I suspect the friend is one who delights in pointing out how kids now are such “snowflakes”.
Signed, This “Boomer” who never had active shooter drills when I was in school and not a teacher.
Reason 237 why I am not on Facebook, etc.
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Post by bluebird71 on Apr 12, 2023 18:26:55 GMT
So, a Facebook friend (retired school para of about ten years) posted this: “I cannot believe Rochester canceled school today because their internet was out. Well how about getting back to basics and open a book, take out a pencil and paper, talk to each other! Somehow I managed 12 years in school without the internet! Try it, you might like it!!” Ok, Boomer. And 12 years of schooling means she graduated... from high school. Oh well congratulations on that and her amazing academic career.
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Post by bluebird71 on Apr 12, 2023 18:34:15 GMT
It's more of a problem that it might seem at face value. It's easy to say that "they can read books and talk to each other", etc., but it's not that simple. So much is internet-based. As others have said, without internet there is no access to curriculum materials, projects in-progress, and teachers cannot print materials for students to use. We are a 1:1 district--each student has a school-issued iPad. The phones are also an issue, and probably security as well. More seriously... My PhD dissertation is a research study focusing on learning and multiliteracies using technology. Here is the seminal work on the concept, originally published in the Harvard Educational Review in 1996. And here is the work scholar Marc Prensky has done on what he coined "digital natives." Per Prensky's work and the work of dozens of scholars and learning theorists after him, children born after the mid to late 1990s are "digital natives." They have grown up immersed in digital culture, digital tools, and digital equipment. This immersion at a young age literally changes how your cognition grows and develops. In short, looking at screens from babyhood on rewires a human brain. So no, sitting there and reading paper books isn't going to achieve learning goals. Not with today's children, teens, or young adults.
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Post by bluebird71 on Apr 12, 2023 18:36:15 GMT
Schools didn’t used to have electricity or plumbing, either. If there is an issue with either now, school is canceled. That person has big “get off my lawn!” vibes, In my Little House books, high school students had to gather around the stove in winter in order to stay warm, bc there was no heat in a schoolhouse.
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Post by bluebird71 on Apr 12, 2023 18:39:49 GMT
When the internet goes out at work we don't get to go home, we find stuff to do. . I don't know what kind of job you have, but when the internet goes down at my job, we go home. Everything is digital. Meetings are digital. All contracts and architectural drawings and related information is digital. I work in construction so yes the workers don't need the internet to get on the building and do the job, but the foreman needs his phone or tablet to access everything including the work plans and more. Here at HQ, we can work via our phones, so we don't need to be in the office.
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Post by bluebird71 on Apr 12, 2023 18:45:35 GMT
Paper/pencil....there is a GREAT chance they wouldn't have enough supplies for all of the kids to use. That would be a mess. The staff would spend the day piece mealing each and every class they had. BACK IN MYYYY DAYYYY... we all brought our own paper notebooks and our own pens and pencils to school. If I forgot my paper or a pencil I could usually get some from a classmate. I would be very surprised if students today actually brought paper and pencils to school.
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Post by epeanymous on Apr 13, 2023 2:18:42 GMT
Schools didn’t used to have electricity or plumbing, either. If there is an issue with either now, school is canceled. That person has big “get off my lawn!” vibes, It reminded me of some people complaining about minors having phones because they didn't have phones. Well, guess what? Now it's hard to function without one (find me a payphone, people!) Anyhow, I teach adults, but if our internet went out, it would be a colossal pain -- I couldn't access my class notes and powerpoint slides (which are in the cloud), print anything out, pull up the recorded materials I access on the internet, or anything. Many of my students only have online textbooks, and a lot of what we do in class requires access to those textbooks. I'd be able to come up with a project for them to work on in class (scrawled out on my notepad!), but it wouldn't be what we normally would do and we'd have to catch up.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 13, 2023 2:37:30 GMT
Paper/pencil....there is a GREAT chance they wouldn't have enough supplies for all of the kids to use. That would be a mess. The staff would spend the day piece mealing each and every class they had. BACK IN MYYYY DAYYYY... we all brought our own paper notebooks and our own pens and pencils to school. If I forgot my paper or a pencil I could usually get some from a classmate. I would be very surprised if students today actually brought paper and pencils to school. LOL! My DD always has paper and a mechanical pencil with her because otherwise what would she have to doodle with when she gets done with her assignment early?
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Post by wholarmor on Apr 13, 2023 15:45:09 GMT
The main issue I see with closing school down unexpectedly is that some students get their only meals from school, and yes, sometimes parents need that childcare during the day. That could be a hardship. I'm not saying teachers should expect to be babysitters, but there is a concern there.
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