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Post by katlady on Apr 17, 2023 5:27:11 GMT
There is a Supreme Court case filed by a postal employee about having to work on Sundays. The employee said when he was hired, the post office was closed on Sundays, so he took the job. However, people in the comment section say that the post office has had people working on Sundays for years. Besides affecting other jobs like nurses, transportation, hospitality, first responders, etc. the articles says that "Groff's case could affect more than a company’s scheduling, experts say. A win for Groff, for instance, might help a teacher who, based on religious beliefs, declines to use transgender pronouns in the classroom. It could give a boost to pharmacists who decline to fill birth control prescriptions based on religion."
How do you feel? Should he win? Should people be allowed to have their Sabbath off? I don't think he should win. If he can't fulfill all of the job requirements, then he shouldn't have taken the job. I don't think he is telling the truth about not knowing about Sunday work. www.yahoo.com/news/wolf-sheeps-clothing-usps-workers-090016706.html
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Apr 17, 2023 5:49:09 GMT
Don't want to work on Sundays? Get a job at Chick Fil A or a bank.
Since as far back as the early 1990's majority of our PO's have had employees work Sunday. There is also late night shifts too. There is 1 PO in the city that does not stay open late with employees working or is open on Sunday's even to check a PO Box.
So I call BS on his claim.
I hope he looses too.
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Post by compeateropeator on Apr 17, 2023 6:00:16 GMT
As an employee in a 24/7/365 department I have worked a ton of Sundays and I work at least half of the holidays every year. If you go into it knowing that is part of the job then I believe if you can’t fulfill that you need to find another job.
It does not seem so cut and dry if it is something that changes after you accept a position. However that being said, many jobs have to change shape and form as society and work environments change. While I think the employer should make every attempt to not affect schedules (shift hours/days) that people were hired for prior to the changes, I also think it is in their right to be able to adapt positions to what they need. It may require some type of grandfathering of older employees. Going forward if they add that the position may require weekend schedules and that does not fit your life, it is not the job for you.
So, basically, I am not sure if he should win. I do think they need to make sure to include that in their job description when hiring new people and that it needs to be communicated and emphasized and not hidden when hiring.
ETA - I was hired for 2nd shift, knowing that there may be times that I had to cover for a different shift. If I was suddenly told that my position was permanently moving from 2nd to 3rd, I would not be happy but would not feel that I had the right to sue and require my employer to keep me on 2nd. If it didn’t work for me I would accept that and find another job.
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Apr 17, 2023 11:59:43 GMT
There is a Supreme Court case filed by a postal employee about having to work on Sundays. The employee said when he was hired, the post office was closed on Sundays, so he took the job. However, people in the comment section say that the post office has had people working on Sundays for years. Besides affecting other jobs like nurses, transportation, hospitality, first responders, etc. the articles says that "Groff's case could affect more than a company’s scheduling, experts say. A win for Groff, for instance, might help a teacher who, based on religious beliefs, declines to use transgender pronouns in the classroom. It could give a boost to pharmacists who decline to fill birth control prescriptions based on religion."
How do you feel? Should he win? Should people be allowed to have their Sabbath off? I don't think he should win. If he can't fulfill all of the job requirements, then he shouldn't have taken the job. I don't think he is telling the truth about not knowing about Sunday work. www.yahoo.com/news/wolf-sheeps-clothing-usps-workers-090016706.htmlHasn't that been the idea all along? We can have super small government if we turn all the running of things over to the churches, right? /s
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Apr 17, 2023 12:09:09 GMT
Job requirements change. You either change with them or you move on. I don’t support his argument here.
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scrappyesq
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Post by scrappyesq on Apr 17, 2023 13:03:53 GMT
I read news about suits like this and it’s as if all of the most conservative wackadoodles waited until this moment with an ultra conservative court to unleash all of the pent up frustration with balanced normalcy.
I don’t have a problem with respecting religious beliefs. Any job I’ve ever worked has had at least one person with Sabbath requirements (either Jewish or Jehovah’s Witness). This suit bothers me because I’m sure the plaintiff knew of Sunday work days and is filing suit now because he thinks he can win.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 17, 2023 13:04:04 GMT
No, he should not win. If he doesn’t want to work on Sundays, get a job that doesn’t require it. His job changed so therefore he needs to either adjust or move on.
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Post by mcjunkin on Apr 17, 2023 13:32:21 GMT
No comment as to the rest of his case or claim, but where we are with small, rural post offices, there are no workers at any of ours on Sundays. I can believe he did not know they worked on Sundays, especially if he is an older gentleman.
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Post by epeanymous on Apr 17, 2023 14:08:01 GMT
I think that since many jobs are M-F or M-S and Christian holidays are national holidays it can be easy when you are Christian to forget that calendars are often already structured around your own religious observance and that others are meant to make do.
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Post by katlady on Apr 17, 2023 15:27:06 GMT
No comment as to the rest of his case or claim, but where we are with small, rural post offices, there are no workers at any of ours on Sundays. I can believe he did not know they worked on Sundays, especially if he is an older gentleman. He is currently 45 years old. Not that old.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Apr 17, 2023 15:36:34 GMT
If I accept his claim at face value - that the job he was hired for did not require Sunday employment - then I think he has an argument, if not necessarily a legal case. Apart from that, it would depend on what the company policy is. Many companies do not require you to work on a religious holiday, though I don't think that is a legal requirement. I also don't know if Sabbath days are included in that, even when religious holidays are excepted.
I know there are plenty of orthodox Jewish employees who have been fired for refusing to work within an hour or so of sundown on Friday and the day on Saturday, so I'd assume the Sabbath isn't an automatically protected category. And assuming that's legal, then the same would go for a Christian.
And let's be real - there aren't many Christians who have the same restrictions on their Sabbath day as orthodox Jews do. Even if they spend the whole day in worship and church activities, they are still allowed to drive a car or check email.
I strongly suspect this is not a legal case, even if it is a case where the company should try to work with the employee. However, "should" doesn't equate to "must." But I do think it's a worthwhile legal question to be answered.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Apr 17, 2023 16:10:36 GMT
My daughter laughs everytime I say, "No post on Sundays!" She swears it is just a Harry Potter thing, but around here, the only Sunday delivery is Amazon packages, and those almost always come a day early on Saturday.
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Post by monklady123 on Apr 17, 2023 16:29:45 GMT
I'm still stuck back on the quote in the OP from the article, the one that mentions religious reasons for not using pronouns for transgender students. I do believe that the New Testament is silent on the matter of pronouns. And the Hebrew bible that the conservatives love to cherry pick doesn't mention anything about pronouns either. Also... I love this little guy -----> -- He expresses so well my feeling about so much of what goes on today. covers the rest of it.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 17, 2023 16:52:31 GMT
The SC has to not only look at Mr Christian mail carrier, they HAVE to consider ALL religions at all jobs, even those that do not have a Sunday sabbath. Take this case another step, say he wins, ok so a non Christian person has a job and they don’t want to work on their not Sunday holidays… Yom kippor changes every year, there’s so many other religions are they going to give off holidays equally for everyone? Imbolc? Beltane? Samhain?
Having spent more than 20 years married to a Jewish person they know that going into a job if they want their non Christian holidays off that’s something they need to negotiate up front. Every job, all the time, every time, time after time, year after year. It just is. They can’t assume like so many can. So if that’s important to you then you work where they allow that, you negotiate that up front before accepting the job, in writing, and usually that will tell you that they can change that with x days notice. This is not new for non Christians.
I can’t see how life will work if he wins it will throw a lot into chaos. Literally millions of non Christian people who never had their holidays off will be requiring them.
What’s good for one is good for all.
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leeny
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Jun 27, 2014 1:55:53 GMT
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Post by leeny on Apr 17, 2023 19:10:36 GMT
My daughter laughs everytime I say, "No post on Sundays!" She swears it is just a Harry Potter thing, but around here, the only Sunday delivery is Amazon packages, and those almost always come a day early on Saturday. Many of our Amazon deliveries on Sundays are via the Post Office!
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Post by hop2 on Apr 18, 2023 0:43:10 GMT
I'm still stuck back on the quote in the OP from the article, the one that mentions religious reasons for not using pronouns for transgender students. I do believe that the New Testament is silent on the matter of pronouns. And the Hebrew bible that the conservatives love to cherry pick doesn't mention anything about pronouns either. Also... I love this little guy -----> -- He expresses so well my feeling about so much of what goes on today. covers the rest of it. Sure there is, according to many translations there are a lot of them: thou, thee, thy, thine, ye, etc. ( thou shalt not…. ) There are more pronouns in the Bible than we use today.
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Post by monklady123 on Apr 18, 2023 1:41:06 GMT
I'm still stuck back on the quote in the OP from the article, the one that mentions religious reasons for not using pronouns for transgender students. I do believe that the New Testament is silent on the matter of pronouns. And the Hebrew bible that the conservatives love to cherry pick doesn't mention anything about pronouns either. Also... I love this little guy -----> -- He expresses so well my feeling about so much of what goes on today. covers the rest of it. Sure there is, according to many translations there are a lot of them: thou, thee, thy, thine, ye, etc. ( thou shalt not…. ) There are more pronouns in the Bible than we use today. Lol. Of course there are pronouns *in* the bible. But there are no instructions in there about how to use them, and nothing that forbids any so-called religious person from using them however someone else would like them to be used.
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Post by melanell on Apr 19, 2023 16:00:38 GMT
I don't see the reason he doesn't want to work on Sundays as really mattering here. There are countless instances in which the requirements and parameters of a job work well for someone upon hiring, but then either things change for the person, or things change within the job, and then the parameters & requirements no longer work.
I don't think that his religion should be any more heavily weighted than any other reason why a person and a job no longer work well together. If my DH & I both work, and I need to be home on Sundays because we have small children, and my DH already works Sundays, do I get to start a lawsuit if suddenly Sundays are a requirement of my job?
I don't think I should be allowed to do so. But I also started working there believing that I would not be working Sundays. Why does he possibly get to have the law say "Nope. He keeps his job and his Sundays off." if they wouldn't same the same for me?
I have known people who firmly believed that no one should ever watch their children besides themselves or occasionally certain close relatives. They fervently believed it. Is their belief less valid than his simply because his is religious in nature?
And that all doesn't even touch on all of the other ways in which incorporating religious beliefs into how an employee is expected to do their job could be fraught with problems, since I know that was already mentioned.
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