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Post by katlady on Sept 30, 2023 21:25:43 GMT
Discussion with a friend. Do you think the song, as originally written, is a religious song?
I know there are different versions out there, but I don’t think the original version, as written by Leonard Cohen is religious. There are biblical references, but to me it is a song about a relationship gone bad.
What do you think?
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Post by librarylady on Sept 30, 2023 21:42:49 GMT
Lyrics:
Now I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played, and it pleased the Lord
But you dont really care for music, do you?
It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth
The minor falls, the major lifts
The baffled king composing Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew her
She tied you to a kitchen chair
She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Well, maybe there's a God above
As for me all I've ever learned from love
Is how to shoot somebody who outdrew you
But it's not a crime that you're hear tonight
It's not some pilgrim who claims to have seen the Light
No, it's a cold and it's a very broken Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Instrumental
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Well people I've been here before
I know this room and I've walked this floor
You see I used to live alone before I knew ya
And I've seen your flag on the marble arch
But listen love, love is not some kind of victory march, no
It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
There was a time you let me know
What's really going on below
But now you never show it to me, do you?
And I remember when I moved in you
And the holy dove she was moving too
And every single breath we drew was Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Now I've done my best, I know it wasn't much
I couldn't feel, so I tried to touch
I've told the truth, I didnt come here to London just to fool you
And even though it all went wrong
I'll stand right here before the Lord of song
With nothing, nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Halleluja
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Post by grammadee on Sept 30, 2023 22:04:51 GMT
I voted Other.
This verse was also written by Leonard Cohen, I believe in response to people who criticized his mix of religious and secular ideas:
[Verse 3]
You say I took the name in vain
I don't even know the name
But if I did, well, really, what's it to ya?
There's a blaze of light in every word
It doesn't matter which you heard
The holy or the broken Hallelujah
This is one of my favourite verses along with the last verse above. I believe this verse is basically saying you can take it whatever way you prefer. He has been gone for 7 years. I really hope the Lord of Song greeted him with warmth and accepted his Halleluja.
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Post by Linda on Sept 30, 2023 22:06:03 GMT
religious-based? yes
something I expect to hear in church? no
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scrapngranny
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Post by scrapngranny on Sept 30, 2023 22:47:12 GMT
I went other. The version that KD Lang signs gives me goosebumps every time I hear it.
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milocat
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Post by milocat on Sept 30, 2023 22:49:54 GMT
I went other. The version that KD Lang signs gives me goosebumps every time I hear it. I love kd's version. |
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Post by Merge on Sept 30, 2023 22:54:58 GMT
Mmmmm, more using a religious story as a myth/metaphor. It's not a religious praise/worship song. Neither is "Take Me to Church" by Hozier.  |
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Post by katlady on Sept 30, 2023 23:07:12 GMT
Mmmmm, more using a religious story as a myth/metaphor. It's not a religious praise/worship song. Neither is "Take Me to Church" by Hozier. Lol! Hozier is what started this discussion with my friend. |
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 30, 2023 23:09:42 GMT
Mmmmm, more using a religious story as a myth/metaphor. It's not a religious praise/worship song. Neither is "Take Me to Church" by Hozier.  Okay, so this is pretty funny. I have never heard of Hozier. Dd is up visiting for the week and just this afternoon we went to Trader Joe's. She always puts music on in the car when we go places and I asked her who we were listening to. She said Hozier. lololol. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 30, 2023 23:42:36 GMT
Well Handel's Messiah Hallelujah Chorus sure is.
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Post by librarylady on Sept 30, 2023 23:48:00 GMT
Well Handel's Messiah Hallelujah Chorus sure is. Yes, I thought at first that was the song in question. |
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Post by gillyp on Oct 1, 2023 0:17:38 GMT
It’s an awful song no matter what it’s about!
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Post by Bridget in MD on Oct 1, 2023 0:30:13 GMT
Lyrics: Now I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played, and it pleased the LordBut you dont really care for music, do you? It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth The minor falls, the major lifts The baffled king composing Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew herShe tied you to a kitchen chair She broke your throne, and she cut your hair And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Well, maybe there's a God above
As for me all I've ever learned from love
Is how to shoot somebody who outdrew youBut it's not a crime that you're hear tonight It's not some pilgrim who claims to have seen the Light No, it's a cold and it's a very broken Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Instrumental Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Well people I've been here before I know this room and I've walked this floor You see I used to live alone before I knew ya And I've seen your flag on the marble arch But listen love, love is not some kind of victory march, no It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah There was a time you let me know What's really going on below But now you never show it to me, do you? And I remember when I moved in you And the holy dove she was moving too And every single breath we drew was Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Now I've done my best, I know it wasn't much I couldn't feel, so I tried to touch I've told the truth, I didnt come here to London just to fool you And even though it all went wrong I'll stand right here before the Lord of song With nothing, nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Halleluja Reading the lyrics, I actually thought it was about David & Bathsheba from the bible. David played the lyre and was a musician as a youth, and then as a king, he saw Bathsheba bathing in the moonlight and lusted after her - since she was married, he put her husband in the front of the battle knowing it would kill him. Their baby died bc of this sin, but later they had a son Solomon. But the rest of the lyrics don't really fold into that theory. |
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quiltz
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Post by quiltz on Oct 1, 2023 1:10:50 GMT
katlady ~~~ There is a documentary (On Craave) about Cohen and how the Hallelujah song was written and the entire history of this song. Very interesting but NOT RELIGIOUS, as spoken from Mr. Cohen. BTW: There are over 500 verses to this song (that he has written so far), not including verses by other songwriters.
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Post by katlady on Oct 1, 2023 1:22:52 GMT
katlady ~~~ There is a documentary (On Craave) about Cohen and how the Hallelujah song was written and the entire history of this song. Very interesting but NOT RELIGIOUS, as spoken from Mr. Cohen. BTW: There are over 500 verses to this song (that he has written so far), not including verses by other songwriters. Thanks, I’ll check it out. I heard that he wrote a lot of verses, kept revising them, etc., but I didn’t know there are over 500 verses! Wow! |
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Oct 1, 2023 2:49:33 GMT
katlady ~~~ There is a documentary (On Craave) about Cohen and how the Hallelujah song was written and the entire history of this song. Very interesting but NOT RELIGIOUS, as spoken from Mr. Cohen. BTW: There are over 500 verses to this song (that he has written so far), not including verses by other songwriters. Ooh I need to try to find that. I love the song. LOVE. IT. I admit, Cohen's voice is not my favorite, so I find it hard to listening to him sing it. I've heard multiple other covers I like. To go back to the original question: Merge got it. I was trying to think how to say it & then I saw her post. The Bible reference is a narrative device. |
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Post by pjaye on Oct 1, 2023 3:56:31 GMT
I love it, I've got the Cohen and Lang CDs that it's on and I really like both of them.
It's a love song, about a great passionate/obsessive relationship with a woman that ended in heartbreak, and now he's looking back at it writing about it using religious metaphors.
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Post by elaine on Oct 1, 2023 4:45:42 GMT
I guess I would say that Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah (and all the remakes of it, including Kd Lang’s) are not the “original” Hallelujah. Musically, I’d credit that to Handel.
However, the modern song “Hallelujah” by Cohen isn’t religious, IMO, although, as already discussed, references biblical stories to illustrate metaphors.
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Post by katlady on Oct 1, 2023 5:13:36 GMT
I guess I would say that Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah (and all the remakes of it, including Kd Lang’s) are not the “original” Hallelujah. Musically, I’d credit that to Handel. However, the modern song “Hallelujah” by Cohen isn’t religious, IMO, although, as already discussed, references biblical stories to illustrate metaphors. To me, they are both originals. Handel's is titled "Hallelujah Chorus" and it is a section of his Messiah piece. Totally different song than Cohen's. It is like the song "Somebody to Love", one written by Queen and one by Jefferson Airplane. Two songs with the same title, but both are originals and different songs. |
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Post by peasapie on Oct 1, 2023 12:27:10 GMT
I always thought he probably had a religious romantic interest and he wrote a song tangentially related to that concept and whatever happened between them. Not actually religious, though.
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Post by peasapie on Oct 1, 2023 12:40:56 GMT
Mmmmm, more using a religious story as a myth/metaphor. It's not a religious praise/worship song. Neither is "Take Me to Church" by Hozier. Agreed. I have a friend who loves Take Me To Church but had no concept that it’s meaning is actually antithetical to her religious beliefs. |
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artbabe
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,026
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Post by artbabe on Oct 1, 2023 13:57:59 GMT
It’s an awful song no matter what it’s about! My jaw literally dropped when I read this. Isn't it weird how different people's opinions can be? I just love this song. It is beautiful and dense and weird. Lovely. Jeff Buckley's is my favorite version. And I voted not religious. Lots of religious metaphors in it but the story is not religious. |
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artbabe
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Post by artbabe on Oct 1, 2023 13:59:53 GMT
Agreed. I have a friend who loves Take Me To Church but had no concept that it’s meaning is actually antithetical to her religious beliefs. That is like the Republican Party trying to use Born in the USA as a theme song without actually listening to the lyrics. Or people who use Every Breath You Take as a wedding song. Yikes. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 1, 2023 15:09:53 GMT
Some times I think people are listening to the music and hear some, but not all words, and like the overall affect.
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quiltz
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Post by quiltz on Oct 1, 2023 15:36:48 GMT
Jeff Buckley's is my favorite version. If you watch the documentary, it was Jeff Buckley's version that made this song come back to the surface. Shrek (the movie) really exploded this song to where we are today. Crave has the documentary. |
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Post by dewryce on Oct 11, 2023 14:57:58 GMT
Jeff Buckley's is my favorite version. If you watch the documentary, it was Jeff Buckley's version that made this song come back to the surface. Shrek (the movie) really exploded this song to where we are today. Crave has the documentary. For us it’s Jeff Buckley’s version used in The West Wing, such a well done and haunting scene. His rendition is perfect for it. |
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Post by agengr2004 on Oct 11, 2023 15:33:39 GMT
No, no it is not.
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mimima
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Post by mimima on Oct 11, 2023 15:41:02 GMT
Mmmmm, more using a religious story as a myth/metaphor. It's not a religious praise/worship song. Neither is "Take Me to Church" by Hozier. Lol! Hozier is what started this discussion with my friend. I'd be curious as to how that conversation went. I've never heard of Hozier or the song, but I just looked it up. |
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Post by Rainy_Day_Woman on Oct 11, 2023 16:35:14 GMT
I mean, it's not a praise / worship song, but it's religiously metaphorical. Leonard Cohen's writings were all dense with Judaic, Christian and Buddhist allusion. He was a deeply religious man, in his weird secular, Leonard Cohen way  I love me some Leonard Cohen live versions, but K.D Lang's version is my favourite. Ugh, her voice just breaks me sometimes. I've never really come across another one that I like all that much (and definitely not all the times my kids' school had like 8 year olds singing it at Christmas concerts? So weird.)
Unrelated side note, I met Leonard Cohen in an elevator once. I was 9 months pregnant, in blazing heat and hauling a massage table. And I was sweaty. Like so sweaty. If there was one moment in my life that I just wanted to look cool and chic- this would have been it. But no. Just so much sweat. (He however, is as effortlessly cool and wonderful as anyone could imagine.)
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Post by gar on Oct 11, 2023 16:41:14 GMT
. Neither is "Take Me to Church" by Hozier. Ah that prompted a listen to that song for the first time in ages 😄 Love it 😊 |
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