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Post by onelasttime on Dec 19, 2023 20:14:29 GMT
Can an actor create the characteristics of an individual from a book without physically resembling that character?
I say yes.
Years ago there were a series of tv mystery movies based on the Aaron Elkins character Gideon Oliver. Louis Gossett Jr played the Gideon Oliver. And I loved the movies. During this time someone said the character in the book was white. I thought so, as far as I’m concerned Louis Gossett, Jr IS Gideon Oliver. And I’ve read all the books in the series except the last one that I have just haven’t read it yet. And when I read that last book, Louis Gossett Jr portrayal is who I will associate with the character.
Same with Robert Urich and Avery Brooks portrayal of Robert B. Parker’s characters in the Spencer for Hire series. I can’t remember if Parker described these characters in any detail but it wouldn’t matter because Urich is Spencer and Brooks is Hawk when I read the books.
IMO in both cases these actors brought the characters to life with enough of the characteristics of that character described in the book to be believable without matching the character physically.
How important is it that the actor needs to physically match the character in a book they portray?
To me it’s more important they have the characteristics described in the book then look like the character that is described in the book.
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Post by femalebusiness on Dec 19, 2023 20:26:33 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role.
I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time.
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Post by andreasmom on Dec 19, 2023 20:37:49 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role. I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time. Yep. Alan Ritchson made me forget Tom Cruise ever tried to be Reacher. He is fantastic in that role!
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Post by Linda on Dec 19, 2023 20:49:51 GMT
I'm one of those wierd people who don't get an image in my head of characters (or anything else) when reading so an actor looking like a character from a book isn't even on my radar.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,769
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Dec 19, 2023 20:55:46 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role. I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time. The Reacher books made his build a major part of his character and how people interact with him. Cruise was completely the wrong build. Loving the new Prime version. I can't imagine anyone other than David Suchet being Poirot. He made it his own A number of actors have interpreted Sherlock Homes and done a good job.
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Post by papersilly on Dec 19, 2023 21:25:49 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role. I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time. the "they" that let him play the role was probably TC himself. he probably only committed to the project if he played the title character regardless of what the character was like in the books. i saw the Reacher movies and thought he was fine. i love the Reacher series and Alan Richtman is great too.
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Post by auntkelly on Dec 19, 2023 22:08:45 GMT
I thought Jonathan Rhys Meyers did a great job of playing Henry VIII in the Showtime series The Tudors, despite the fact that the director didn't try and fatten Rhys Meyers up at the end of the series when he was playing an aging Henry VIII. Instead of wearing a fat suit or trying to gain 100 pounds, Rhys Meyers gradually began walking and moving like an older man and used his facial expressions to show he was in constant pain. I thought he was convincing as both a young and an older Henry VIII.
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Post by littlemama on Dec 19, 2023 22:47:36 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role. I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time. 😂😂😂 you beat me to it. Reacher is 6'5" and jacked. It is an essential part of the character. 5'5" (with lifts) Cruise was a horrible miscasting. I dont think a character needs to be an exact match, but essential characteristics need to be maintained.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 19, 2023 22:56:11 GMT
“A female fighter who dominates proper technique remains calm and in control of herself, can overpower a larger and stronger male.”
I changed a couple of words..
”A 5’7” man who dominates proper technique remains calm and in control of himself, can overpower a larger and stronger male.”
Both of these are true statements.
I happen to have the first Jack Reacher book in my hand actually. In the Introduction Child’s describes what went into creating Jack Reacher. At the beginning of the introduction there are what he calls three specific conclusions. The first “Character is king”.
I looked up the definition of character and it doesn’t include physical descriptions.
Later on in the introduction he explains why he made Jack Reacher 6’5”.
”And I thought it would be interesting to reverse the paradigm in terms of physical vulnerability. Usually, a book’s hero comes up against people he needs to be afraid of. What if , I asked myself, the heroes toughest SOB in the valley and others need to be afraid of him? In my fourth book, Running Scared, an FBI agent called Blake threatens to leak Reacher’s name to a violent psychopath called Petrosian. Blake thinks it’s an effective motivation—and in real life and most books it would be. But Reacher just says “Look at me Blake. Get real. There’s maybe ten people on the planet I need to be scared of. Extremely unlikely this guy Petrosian happens to be one of them.” I was trying to discover whether drama was possible without the usual David versus Goliath structure. I wondered would Goliath vrs Goliath work? I have a fan and friend who works in the gaudy world of pro-wrestling—worked, actually , because he’s retired now. My friend’s major concerned is that the wrestling paradigm always has the designated good guy lose, and lose, and lose, before winning in the final round. It was hard for him to come to terms with the absence of a battered underdog. But I always wanted Reacher to be the overdog.
In his introduction Child’s says “Character is king”. IMO Tom Cruise took the characteristics Child’s created for Reacher and shoved him into his 5’7” body along with displaying the bolded part above and by doing so he made his version of Reacher the overdog Child’s was looking for. The idea Cruise’s version of Jack Reacher would lose, and lose, and lose, before winning is not likely.
I have not seen the Amazon Prime version of Jack Reacher and I’m not going to subscribe just to watch the series. I do see the first season is out on dvd and maybe I will order it to see if I like this version of Reacher.
So I guess I disagree with the ones on this thread who don’t like TC’s version of Jack Reacher. 😀
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,398
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Dec 29, 2023 0:46:39 GMT
I'm one of those wierd people who don't get an image in my head of characters (or anything else) when reading so an actor looking like a character from a book isn't even on my radar. I'm somewhat similar - except I do get a visual image. It just doesn't necessarily have any similarity to how they are actually physically described. Like, if they are described as stunningly handsome and that's somewhat integral to the character, the image in my head will be stunningly handsome, but not necessarily with blond hair and blue eyes as the author states. But if a character is constantly described as having "warm brown eyes" then my image probably will. My image is correct, of course, and what the author secretly intended but just didn't know it. But more to the original question - when an actor doesn't look like the character is supposed to look, it doesn't really bother me since I probably never pictured them that way anyway, lol. It is more in the demeanor and acting.
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christinec68
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Posts: 5,129
Location: New York, NY
Jun 26, 2014 18:02:19 GMT
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Post by christinec68 on Dec 29, 2023 3:35:00 GMT
For the most part, I don’t really think about it. The only time where I felt an actor was physically miscast for a role was Morgan Freeman playing Alex Cross in Kiss the Girls. Alex Cross was described looking similar in build to Mohammad Ali and had two school age kids living with his grandmother…it wasn’t even close for me. If I had not read the book, it would have been fine as he’s a good actor.
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Post by AussieMeg on Dec 29, 2023 12:40:33 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role. I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time. I agree with you 100%, and I knew someone would mention Reacher! I hated the thought of that little weeny playing Reacher so much, that I refused to watch even one second of the movie. I read Lee Child's 'justification' for casting weeny, and it actually just made me angrier haha! Just admit that you wanted a big name so you could sell more tickets at the box office! The backlash was brutal. Luckily he listened to 99.99% of his fans and made a much better choice for the TV series. DSO and I just watched an episode of Reacher season two, and we can't stop commenting on how perfect Alan Ritchson is as Reacher. (Although he might just be a smidge too good looking compared to how Lee Child describes him in the books - not that I'm complaining!) Another perfect casting decision IMO is Tom Burke as Cormoran Strike and Holliday Grainger as Robin Ellacott in the CB Strike series. They are both almost exactly as I pictured them in the books before the TV series was even a thought. (Although the actress who plays Charlotte was way off base - she looks nothing like she is described in the book.) My last one is Titus Welliver as Bosch. I think he is perfect! It was a bit weird at first, because Bosch was so much older in the books. They had to change the backstory to him fighting in Afghanistan instead of Vietnam, so they could match the actor a bit closer to the age the character was in the older books. It's funny though, because now when I read any of the newer Bosch books written after the TV series started, I still picture book-Bosch the same way I had pictured him before Titus became Bosch. It's like they are two different characters in my head.
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SweetieBsMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,612
Jun 25, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Dec 29, 2023 13:06:04 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role. I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time. I 100% agree with this. I love him as Reacher.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,398
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Dec 29, 2023 15:37:08 GMT
Oh, I did think of one - Daniel Craig as James Bond. He doesn't look as the books describe him in the least (I always felt that was closest to Pierce Brosnan), and I did initially reject him. But in the end, I think he was the best one yet.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 10, 2024 6:09:31 GMT
Does anyone watch Will Trent on ABC? He’s a police detective who is an interesting character. He’s a character from books written by Karin Slaughter.
It seems Karin Slaughter and Lee Child wrote a book together about their two characters Will Trent and Jack Reacher. It’s called “Cleaning the Gold”.
Considering the actors who play these characters it should make for good reading. So I ordered the book.
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Post by katlady on Jan 10, 2024 7:54:50 GMT
It is one reason I hate to read a book before seeing the movie. I read one book where the main characters were late-20’s to early 30’s. The movie had one of the characters played by an actor who was 50. Ruined the movie for me. Whereas if I see the movie first, then I picture that actor as the character in the book. For instance, Lord of the Rings. While reading the books (yes, I read all 3 of them), I pictured Orlando Bloom and Viggo Mortensen as the characters I was reading. If the actor in the movie has blue eyes, I still picture the character in the book with blue eyes even though the book may say he has brown eyes.
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smginaz Suzy
Pearl Clutcher
Je suis desole.
Posts: 2,606
Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Jan 10, 2024 9:46:58 GMT
Hamilton.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jan 10, 2024 13:10:51 GMT
My husband had issue with the cast of Hamilton, he just didn't think it was realistic that so many POC were cast when you know most of the men were white white white. However, it didn't bother me at all. As a matter of fact, I love that the OG (and current) cast is so diverse. I listened to the soundtrack so I could be familiar with the music, and he hadn't. I wonder if that would have helped him.
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on Jan 10, 2024 19:36:09 GMT
I do and I enjoy the show. The one thing that drives me crazy is his horrible, terrible, no good fake southern accent. UGH! I'm a southerner by birth and have lived in the south my entire 54 years. I can tell which southern state an accent is from (mostly) and I can spot a fake from a mile away. His is awful!
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Post by malibou on Jan 10, 2024 19:58:18 GMT
My husband had issue with the cast of Hamilton, he just didn't think it was realistic that so many POC were cast when you know most of the men were white white white. However, it didn't bother me at all. As a matter of fact, I love that the OG (and current) cast is so diverse. I listened to the soundtrack so I could be familiar with the music, and he hadn't. I wonder if that would have helped him. We saw Hamilton in London, and just about everyone was POC. Dh was confused. 😂
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Post by stampinfraulein on Jan 10, 2024 23:06:04 GMT
I never liked Josh Hutcherson as Peeta in the Hunger Games movies. He didn't look at all like the Peeta that I pictured in my head when reading. I don't have a copy of the book to even check what his description was in the books, but I just remember seeing the first movie and being bugged by that casting.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 25, 2024 1:46:16 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role. I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time. I’m dragging this back because I finally saw Alan Richardson’s portrayal of Jack Reacher. 😂 I was watching the beginning of the second episode and he said something and I thought there is nothing intimidating about his character at all. I’m at the part where he broke the hands of those kids. Cruise could have done it the exact same way. In fact I’ve seen him do a fight scene similar. It’s his voice. That’s the difference. His voice is too nice to be intimidating. I think it’s the character each actor projected. IMO the character Cruise projected, even as short as he is, was more intimidating than Alan Richardson’s portrayal of Reacher. So I guess we are going to agree to disagree on this.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jan 25, 2024 3:20:58 GMT
Some can however Tom Cruise is not one of them. The Reacher books are my favorites and that shrimp Cruise absolutely ruined it for me. I couldn't even finish the movie. I don't know what the hell they were thinking letting him play that role. I just finished watching the series on Prime and Alan Ritchson IS Jack Reacher. He is absolutely perfect. Nothing has made me happier than watching him in the series in a long time. I’m dragging this back because I finally saw Alan Richardson’s portrayal of Jack Reacher. 😂 I was watching the beginning of the second episode and he said something and I thought there is nothing intimidating about his character at all. I’m at the part where he broke the hands of those kids. Cruise could have done it the exact same way. In fact I’ve seen him do a fight scene similar. It’s his voice. That’s the difference. His voice is too nice to be intimidating. I think it’s the character each actor projected. IMO the character Cruise projected, even as short as he is, was more intimidating than Alan Richardson’s portrayal of Reacher. So I guess we are going to agree to disagree on this. Do you read the Reacher books? If not and if you like Tom Cruise I get that is what you think.
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Post by Prenticekid on Jan 25, 2024 17:28:36 GMT
Well, Ramon Rodriguez is certainly not a big, blond Marine, but I totally buy him as Will Trent! He captures what I love about Will Trent.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 25, 2024 18:18:56 GMT
I’m dragging this back because I finally saw Alan Richardson’s portrayal of Jack Reacher. 😂 I was watching the beginning of the second episode and he said something and I thought there is nothing intimidating about his character at all. I’m at the part where he broke the hands of those kids. Cruise could have done it the exact same way. In fact I’ve seen him do a fight scene similar. It’s his voice. That’s the difference. His voice is too nice to be intimidating. I think it’s the character each actor projected. IMO the character Cruise projected, even as short as he is, was more intimidating than Alan Richardson’s portrayal of Reacher. So I guess we are going to agree to disagree on this. Do you read the Reacher books? If not and if you like Tom Cruise I get that is what you think. I have the first couple of books to read. But in the introduction of the first Jack Reacher book Lee Child’s talks tells why he made Reacher over 6 ft tall. He wanted Reacher to be a hero but was tired of what he claims are the current crop of heros that are smaller and flawed. Lee Child “What if , I asked myself, the hero is the toughest SOB in the valley and others need to be afraid of him?” That is why he made him over 6 feet tall. I watched all 8 episodes of tv series last night and I liked them. But, IMO the Jack Reacher persona Cruise created was more of what Child was looking for without being over 6ft tall than the Jack Reacher persona created by Alan Ritchson who is over 6 ft tall. And to be honest while flashing back to what I watched last night it could be that Cruise is just a better actor than Ritchson. Which means when I finally start reading the books in my mind my Reacher will look like Cruise.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jan 25, 2024 20:35:22 GMT
This is what Lee Child has to say about Tom Cruise and Alan Ritchson as Reacher:
“The key difference between the movie and the television is the running time. We have so much time to tell the story, it also means that the actor is on the screen for that much longer. Alan Ritchson auditioned via Zoom, which felt weird, except actually, it was a great way to do it since that is all the viewer is ever going to see the actor on the screen and we were judging on the same basis. I wanted an actor who would step on the screen and just own it and command it and be Reacher without doing anything or saying anything, Alan Ritchson was that person, straightaway he's very comfortable with not talking which is perfect for Reacher, but very rare for actors and he was very cool with that. Tom Cruise is a great actor, and he had the internal part of Reacher which was good. But physicality is important to Reacher since he is a huge-looking and scary man, so when he steps into the room, everybody's a little nervous. And I thought that Alan commanded that much better on the screen.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 25, 2024 21:45:23 GMT
In the introduction of the first Jack Reacher book Lee Child gives his thinking on why he made Reacher the way he did. No matter what your persona is in order to be intimidating one has to be big.
But in nature some of the most deadliest animals are small.
The other day I was watching a reel of two German Shepherds standing at the top of a staircase wanting to go downstairs. What was stopping them was a cat sitting on a stair two steps down There was room on the stair for them to go by the cat. In fact the cat looked like it was dozing. The owner kept calling the dogs but they wouldn’t go past that cat.
Now we know two German Shepards could tear that cat apart. But yet they were so intimidated or scared of that cat they wouldn't go by it to go the stairs even when the owners were calling them. My point is, one does not have to be big to be intimidating.
I bought the Reacher TV series dvds because I was curious about this Reacher and wasn’t going to subscribe to another streaming company. While I was watching him last night I whipped out my ipad and started streaming the movie Reacher that is on Paramount Plus. I was watching both Reachers at the same time. How’s that for a comparison. I still like Cruise’s version better.
Which I chalk up to his acting. He may be odd but when he wants to he can act.
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Post by rainangel on Jan 26, 2024 7:07:50 GMT
My husband had issue with the cast of Hamilton, he just didn't think it was realistic that so many POC were cast when you know most of the men were white white white. However, it didn't bother me at all. As a matter of fact, I love that the OG (and current) cast is so diverse. I listened to the soundtrack so I could be familiar with the music, and he hadn't. I wonder if that would have helped him. We saw Hamilton in London, and just about everyone was POC. Dh was confused. 😂 Lin-Manuel Miranda who wrote Hamilton has said it's the new America telling the story of old America. I find it fitting, but I can see how it's confusing to some. As a piece of art, I don't think POC playing white people takes away from the story. Also, if someone is confused about skin color, are they aware rapping is not something they did much of in 1781?
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