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Post by epeanymous on Dec 30, 2023 21:34:57 GMT
Not really, but I do feel like I'm constantly posting these. IRL everyone I know is struggling and no one has solutions.
I've posted before about my MIL, who was diagnosed with Parkinson's thirty-ish years ago. She and my FIL used to have places in Manhattan and the Hamptons, and the Manhattan place at least was easy for BIL (who lives in suburban NJ) to drive to; it wasn't super easy for us (we were in SC and there wasn't a direct flight at the time), but it wasn't super far at least. After we moved to Seattle, they bought a place in Florida; about ten years ago, they sold their Manhattan place; and last month, they sold their Hamptons place, so they are down just to the Florida house. It's now a plane flight from BIL and a very long plane flight from us.
Caring for my MIL is a lot of work because of her physical limitations, but the primary problem is that she has become verbally abusive to my FIL. I have read a lot about Parkinsons at this point and it seems like the aggression and mental processing issues are consistent with the progression of her disease, although it's probably worth noting that she has, her entire life, been the sort of person to scream and say cruel things if she doesn't get her way. The problem at this point is that "not getting her way" includes being supervised by her paid caregivers (which my inlaws do have), FIL leaving the house without her (to do anything, like playing golf, that she is incapable of doing), being told to use mobility aids (without which she falls over multiple times a day), etc. -- it's no longer, you can placate her by going to the restaurant she wants.
Does anyone have suggestions about how to support or manage here? It's not practical for BIL or my husband to spend much time in FL, which was why I mentioned the distance -- both BIL and my husband are mid-career, not anywhere close to retirement, and both have kids they are still raising (and wives who have their own careers), so they can't really get to Florida frequently (when my inlaws were managing a set of their own parents in Florida, my inlaws were already retired and their kids were in their 30s). They can afford paid help, but my MIL is screaming at FIL all the time about having it and calls dh to say she plans to fire the caregivers. My inlaws are only 75, so I could see this going on for years.
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scrappinwithoutpeas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,914 
Location: Northern Virginia
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Post by scrappinwithoutpeas on Dec 30, 2023 21:46:00 GMT
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I have no real advice but didn't want to read and run. ((Hugs))
Is it possible to consult with your MIL's doctor for suggestions on dealing with the cognitive issues and/or decline? Are there other hospital or local resources that you could reach out to for help/advice? Sounds like maybe she needs a higher level of medical care than she is currently getting. Are her current caregivers live-in? Is she getting PT or OT? Just a few ideas to throw out there.
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Post by Basket1lady on Dec 30, 2023 21:54:07 GMT
I’m so sorry that your family is dealing with this. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking, all at the same time.
Have you looked into some antidepressants?
MIL has dementia and unfortunately, it’s the angry kind. FIL finally couldn’t take the stress of it any longer and agreed to put MIL in a care facility attached to their assisted living apartment. Over the years, we had made attempts to get him help, but MIL just wouldn’t tolerate “strangers in her house” and the caregiver wouldn’t come back after 1-2 visits.
She continued to be a problem in her skilled nursing section. After about a year of waiting for her to settle, they finally started working with some medications. She now takes two different antidepressants and is usually quite lovely to be around. My sister-in-law was quite against medication, but MIL was aggressive towards the staff and other residents. 99% of that has stopped.
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Post by mikklynn on Dec 30, 2023 22:05:09 GMT
No advice, but you have my sincere sympathy.
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Post by littlemama on Dec 30, 2023 22:26:01 GMT
It might be time for her to move to a facility.
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kitbop
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,395
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Post by kitbop on Dec 30, 2023 22:32:07 GMT
Have you looked into some antidepressants? MIL has dementia and unfortunately, it’s the angry kind. FIL finally couldn’t take the stress of it any longer and agreed to put MIL in a care facility attached to their assisted living apartment. Over the years, we had made attempts to get him help, but MIL just wouldn’t tolerate “strangers in her house” and the caregiver wouldn’t come back after 1-2 visits. I'm afraid I have a common conclusion to many of these stories. I meet these people in hospital with their broken hips. It's usually "crisis placement" into a nursing home from there. I'm the PT trying to get them back on their feet and they are limited by - balance - engagement/motivation (it hurts. why on earth would I get out of bed?) - motor processing (they can't figure out how to move anymore) - fear of falling again - and cognition (struggle to understand instructions, forget what they've been shown, forget task at hand (ie "what are we doing?" "we're getting you up". 5 seconds later, "what are we doing?"...) AND usually post-op delirium just to top it off. I'm afraid to say: I think the broken hip is often WELCOME by the families who are burned out but cannot break out of the cycle. The key word is "insight": the ill person has zero understanding of their cognitive decline, risks, burden on family, and behavior. I'm glad you are across the country TBH. The demands on you (out of concern, love and devotion to your FIL!) if you were closer would only increase. This situation may collapse without a broken hip simply because you aren't there to hold things together for her! I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It's no "fault" of hers. Dementia and Parkinson's are just terrible random things and often take away the filter and reason of the victims. I agree with the question about antidepressants - they are overlooked in the geriatric population who has plenty of reason to be depressed!!! |
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Post by Basket1lady on Dec 31, 2023 0:31:04 GMT
Have you looked into some antidepressants? MIL has dementia and unfortunately, it’s the angry kind. FIL finally couldn’t take the stress of it any longer and agreed to put MIL in a care facility attached to their assisted living apartment. Over the years, we had made attempts to get him help, but MIL just wouldn’t tolerate “strangers in her house” and the caregiver wouldn’t come back after 1-2 visits. I'm afraid I have a common conclusion to many of these stories. I meet these people in hospital with their broken hips. It's usually "crisis placement" into a nursing home from there. I'm the PT trying to get them back on their feet and they are limited by - balance - engagement/motivation (it hurts. why on earth would I get out of bed?) - motor processing (they can't figure out how to move anymore) - fear of falling again - and cognition (struggle to understand instructions, forget what they've been shown, forget task at hand (ie "what are we doing?" "we're getting you up". 5 seconds later, "what are we doing?"...) AND usually post-op delirium just to top it off. I'm afraid to say: I think the broken hip is often WELCOME by the families who are burned out but cannot break out of the cycle. The key word is "insight": the ill person has zero understanding of their cognitive decline, risks, burden on family, and behavior. I'm glad you are across the country TBH. The demands on you (out of concern, love and devotion to your FIL!) if you were closer would only increase. This situation may collapse without a broken hip simply because you aren't there to hold things together for her! I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It's no "fault" of hers. Dementia and Parkinson's are just terrible random things and often take away the filter and reason of the victims. I agree with the question about antidepressants - they are overlooked in the geriatric population who has plenty of reason to be depressed!!! Interesting. I suspect it’s like the frog in a pot of boiling water. By the time you realize what is happening, it’s too late. For us, the break was FIL’s hip replacement surgery. We were living in Belgium at the time and my sister in law was 1,000 miles from FIL. He had home nurses scheduled to come care for MIL and then him, but COVID swept through the home visit nurses. No one informed him and then he tried to get discharged hours after the surgery to go home and care for MIL, who could care for him. No one was at the house for MIl and then no one was there to care for him. My SIL put her foot down, rented a motor home, and drove to pick them up. They spent a month in the rehab facility near SIL and then moved to assisted living. Within a week, FIL said that he just couldn’t deal with her anger anymore. She wasn’t getting out of bed unless forced to and then she was just MAD. So yes, there was a crisis and things just had to change. |
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Post by epeanymous on Dec 31, 2023 1:14:07 GMT
I’m so sorry that your family is dealing with this. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking, all at the same time. Have you looked into some antidepressants? MIL has dementia and unfortunately, it’s the angry kind. FIL finally couldn’t take the stress of it any longer and agreed to put MIL in a care facility attached to their assisted living apartment. Over the years, we had made attempts to get him help, but MIL just wouldn’t tolerate “strangers in her house” and the caregiver wouldn’t come back after 1-2 visits. She continued to be a problem in her skilled nursing section. After about a year of waiting for her to settle, they finally started working with some medications. She now takes two different antidepressants and is usually quite lovely to be around. My sister-in-law was quite against medication, but MIL was aggressive towards the staff and other residents. 99% of that has stopped. She is on antidepressants. She also has access to the top Parkinson's specialists. Between you, me, and the doorpost, I think that is part of the problem. In her early years, she was doing well, and her specialists would take her to conferences and show her as an example of how Parkinson's can be successfully managed. Even now, for someone diagnosed thirty years ago, she is doing relatively well, but she is significantly mentally and physically impaired, and not only is she in denial, but her physicians are as well (a few years ago one even wrote an appeal letter for her to get her license back, even though the DMV employee revoked it after multiple accidents and observing how little motor control she had). I do think it is indeed like a frog in water, and that she doesn't perceive the changes even though you get burned if you stick your finger in the water. |
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Post by Basket1lady on Dec 31, 2023 1:38:11 GMT
I’m so sorry that your family is dealing with this. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking, all at the same time. Have you looked into some antidepressants? MIL has dementia and unfortunately, it’s the angry kind. FIL finally couldn’t take the stress of it any longer and agreed to put MIL in a care facility attached to their assisted living apartment. Over the years, we had made attempts to get him help, but MIL just wouldn’t tolerate “strangers in her house” and the caregiver wouldn’t come back after 1-2 visits. She continued to be a problem in her skilled nursing section. After about a year of waiting for her to settle, they finally started working with some medications. She now takes two different antidepressants and is usually quite lovely to be around. My sister-in-law was quite against medication, but MIL was aggressive towards the staff and other residents. 99% of that has stopped. She is on antidepressants. She also has access to the top Parkinson's specialists. Between you, me, and the doorpost, I think that is part of the problem. In her early years, she was doing well, and her specialists would take her to conferences and show her as an example of how Parkinson's can be successfully managed. Even now, for someone diagnosed thirty years ago, she is doing relatively well, but she is significantly mentally and physically impaired, and not only is she in denial, but her physicians are as well (a few years ago one even wrote an appeal letter for her to get her license back, even though the DMV employee revoked it after multiple accidents and observing how little motor control she had). I do think it is indeed like a frog in water, and that she doesn't perceive the changes even though you get burned if you stick your finger in the water. Wow. You really are fighting quite a battle. |
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Post by Tearisci on Dec 31, 2023 14:32:11 GMT
I'm sorry to read that you are going through this. We moved my elderly parents down to Texas so we could take care of them and it's a daily challenge. We're now facing whether or not we need to move them to the next stage of care- assisted living- because of mental and physical decline so I don't have any answers, I just wanted to commiserate and send you good thoughts.
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Post by auntkelly on Dec 31, 2023 15:19:13 GMT
If I were your DH I would plan a week long visit w/ my brother at my parents’ place. If at all possible, I would set up appointments w/ their doctors and accompany my parents on those visits. It is amazing how the doctor’s tone can change from “you’re doing great, just keep taking your meds” to real concern when a family member is present to say things like “I’ve observed mom doing . . . “
I’m sure your DH and his brother are very concerned about their father and I think they need to have some conversations w/ him when their mother is not present. No one should have to live in an abusive situation.
It sounds to me like one or both of the parents need a higher level of care than just having someone come in and cook and clean for them. I feel for your DH and his brother. It’s very time consuming finding the right care facility and it’s very difficult to convince an older person that they are not capable of managing on their own.
When my aunt, who has no spouse or children, first started showing signs of Alzheimer’s, I tried to manage her care from 100 miles away and it was exhausting. I feel for your husband and his brother. I can’t imagine trying to care for aging parents who live in another part of the country.
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Post by mom on Dec 31, 2023 15:45:01 GMT
If I were your DH I would plan a week long visit w/ my brother at my parents’ place. If at all possible, I would set up appointments w/ their doctors and accompany my parents on those visits. It is amazing how the doctor’s tone can change from “you’re doing great, just keep taking your meds” to real concern when a family member is present to say things like “I’ve observed mom doing . . . “ I’m sure your DH and his brother are very concerned about their father and I think they need to have some conversations w/ him when their mother is not present. No one should have to live in an abusive situation. It sounds to me like one or both of the parents need a higher level of care than just having someone come in and cook and clean for them. I feel for your DH and his brother. It’s very time consuming finding the right care facility and it’s very difficult to convince an older person that they are not capable of managing on their own. When my aunt, who has no spouse or children, first started showing signs of Alzheimer’s, I tried to manage her care from 100 miles away and it was exhausting. I feel for your husband and his brother. I can’t imagine trying to care for aging parents who live in another part of the country. I agree with this idea. I think it's time to make sure the Drs realize whats going on. If a visit in person isn't an option, maybe the brothers can schedule a phone call with Dr to express their concerns (which might be better since Mom wouldn't be listening and getting offended). I have done that with my dad's doctors when I knew things where getting bad but unable to get to the appt. I did have to pay a co-pay for a phone call visit, but I didnt mind since I knew I couldn't be there otherwise. |
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,763
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Post by scrapngranny on Dec 31, 2023 16:51:12 GMT
Check with hospice. Even though she is not considered terminal, they do work with patients who need help with a possible terminal illness. With my dad they were able to medicate him to help with his hostility.
Good luck with all you are going through. It’s not easy dealing with aging parents. I’m facing the fact that I am now entering the aging parent phase myself. I don’t need help with care, but I do notice my daughter’s looks that tell me that she sees me as a problem.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 2, 2024 2:08:43 GMT
Check with hospice. Even though she is not considered terminal, they do work with patients who need help with a possible terminal illness. With my dad they were able to medicate him to help with his hostility. Good luck with all you are going through. It’s not easy dealing with aging parents. I’m facing the fact that I am now entering the aging parent phase myself. I don’t need help with care, but I do notice my daughter’s looks that tell me that she sees me as a problem. This was what my neighbor had to do for his wife. He had to move her into a facility because he couldn’t take care of her at home anymore. She too was one of the angry dementia patients and was verbally abusive to the staff. He was able to switch her to hospice even though her condition isn’t technically a terminal illness, and she’s being medicated to help with the hostility. BTDT myself to a lesser degree and it’s a tough situation all the way around. |
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,333
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Post by amom23 on Jan 2, 2024 4:04:34 GMT
Your DH and his brother along with their parents need to draw up Power of Attorney papers for medical and financial. It's also super helpful if one of them can get added to their parents checking account. It's not like you are going to need those papers in the immediate future, but take it from me......things can go downhill real fast and having POA and being able to pay bills on their behalf is so incredibly helpful. From what you described it sounds like a discussion regarding placing MIL in an assisted living facility should probably happen. At least start that conversation. Hugs to all of you! I know from experience how hard this all is.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jan 2, 2024 4:49:06 GMT
Your DH and his brother along with their parents need to draw up Power of Attorney papers for medical and financial. It's also super helpful if one of them can get added to their parents checking account. It's not like you are going to need those papers in the immediate future, but take it from me......things can go downhill real fast and having POA and being able to pay bills on their behalf is so incredibly helpful. From what you described it sounds like a discussion regarding placing MIL in an assisted living facility should probably happen. At least start that conversation. Hugs to all of you! I know from experience how hard this all is. Agree with this, but don't get added to their accounts. That can have tax implications for you. Instead, you need a Durable Power of Attorney. Even before that, set up online access to their bank accounts. That way, you can still access them when the bank/credit card company says that they can't find a record of your DPA! We hired a lawyer for less than $500 to help with the legal stuff. |
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Post by ntsf on Jan 2, 2024 4:55:05 GMT
be sure and get a power of attorney form from the bank.. they often give you trouble with using the standard poa form for your state.
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Post by mikklynn on Jan 2, 2024 19:15:57 GMT
Your DH and his brother along with their parents need to draw up Power of Attorney papers for medical and financial. It's also super helpful if one of them can get added to their parents checking account. It's not like you are going to need those papers in the immediate future, but take it from me......things can go downhill real fast and having POA and being able to pay bills on their behalf is so incredibly helpful. From what you described it sounds like a discussion regarding placing MIL in an assisted living facility should probably happen. At least start that conversation. Hugs to all of you! I know from experience how hard this all is. Agree with this, but don't get added to their accounts. That can have tax implications for you. Instead, you need a Durable Power of Attorney. Even before that, set up online access to their bank accounts. That way, you can still access them when the bank/credit card company says that they can't find a record of your DPA! We hired a lawyer for less than $500 to help with the legal stuff. I don't know the exact terminology, but my DD is an authorized signer on my parents' accounts. She pays all their bills and can transfer money as necessary. She does not "own" the accounts. When they die, the money will go to the beneficiaries, me and my siblings. That was one of the best things we ever did. She is a financial analyst and very good with money. She provides spreadsheets to my siblings to show where the money goes. |
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