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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 4, 2024 12:52:36 GMT
I saw this story and thought at first the patron was in the wrong, but now I think it's the restaurant owner. What say the peas? www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/fiery-feud-between-customer-and-restaurant-over-250-cancellation-fee-sparks-debate/3557494/I'm siding with the patron - he did go to the hospital and they did try to call and cancel, but it was the restaurant's policy to charge the no show fee, no ifs, ands or buts... but it sounds like when the patron's husband called to cancel and protested the fee, the employee said to talk to the credit card "if they are so butt hurt." That right there is super unprofessional. And would have caused me to do just that. But for the owner to seek the patron out and DM him, that is over the top. Now she is getting death threats and she has to close down her listing on google bc people are giving her bad reviews. It kind of reminds me when Keith Lee, the food reviewer on TT, goes and doesn't like the food, he always says THIS IS MY OPINION and don't call the restaurant or attack them online based on my comments...
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sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,006
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Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Mar 4, 2024 13:08:51 GMT
I will start by saying I understand why restaurants are charging non-refundable deposits. So many people were booking and not showing up that something had to be done. A podcast I was listening to last week said it was really common for a group to book 3 or 4 restaurants on Monday for Friday evening, then decide Friday where they wanted to go, and leave the others hanging! That said - this was a legit reason to cancel. Not just 'a bit sick' but ill enough to be in hospital. But again - how does the restaurant know you're not just saying that to get out of the charge?
To me, the big problem the the behavior of the restaurant staff and owner. The 'butt-hurt' was bad enough, but sending the DMs to the patron afterwards is just beyond acceptable. She isn't getting the pushback and threats because she had a chargeback, it is because she chose to attack the customer. She must have known that what she wrote wouldn't stay private. In particular, her accusing him of 'screwing her over' and calling him pathetic went too far.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 4, 2024 13:34:56 GMT
sueg I completely agree with everything you said! Sometimes I really hate "cancel culture" but this time, I think she totally brought it upon herself. I really wonder if the owner thinks it was worth the $250 and now her reputation just to get her say...
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Post by smasonnc on Mar 4, 2024 13:40:22 GMT
To me, the big problem the the behavior of the restaurant staff and owner. The 'butt-hurt' was bad enough, but sending the DMs to the patron afterwards is just beyond acceptable. She isn't getting the pushback and threats because she had a chargeback, it is because she chose to attack the customer. She must have known that what she wrote wouldn't stay private. In particular, her accusing him of 'screwing her over' and calling him pathetic went too far. Right. The owner was the one who chose to escalate. The customer may be lying about the hospital, but If her restaurant is hot enough to charge a big no-show fee, $250 isn't worth going to war over. She's already spent $250 worth of her time on this and done incalculable damage to her restaurant's reputation. That's just psycho to track him down and berate him publicly. What's next? She goes to the customers' house and beats the $#*t out of them. What a lunatic.
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Post by disneypal on Mar 4, 2024 13:49:15 GMT
It is tricky, I mean the cancellation policy says “no exceptions”. So I understand the owners POV, however, the way she handled the situation was way out of line and it’s her own fault that she’s now getting a lot of negative backlash (although death threats are crazy)
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SweetieBsMom
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Posts: 4,599
Jun 25, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Mar 4, 2024 13:58:43 GMT
This is local to me and getting a lot of press. The restaurant owner was definitely in the wrong.
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Post by Lurkingpea on Mar 4, 2024 14:06:21 GMT
Restaurant owner was absolutely in the wrong here. Not for refusing to cancel their cancellation fee, but for sending a message like that and for hunting them down to dm them. Customer seems like he was using his insurance appropriately and I cannot believe any business owner would ever send a message like that. I wonder how she treats her staff?
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Post by kamper on Mar 4, 2024 14:40:15 GMT
The restaurant is in the wrong but, what I don't understand was why there was a charge back. The patron said they had insurance through their credit card and going to the ER was definitely covered. Why didn't the CC just credit the patron and leave the restaurant out of it?
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Post by compeateropeator on Mar 4, 2024 14:40:45 GMT
I think the owner contacting and messaging the customer was an extremely bad choice and has cost her plenty. I think the cardholder did nothing wrong if they followed rules and laws. How many times have people told you to use a credit card so if you need to dispute a charge/insurances…no different for this situation. That is the way the system works.
IMO - If the restaurant is so popular that they can charge a 250.00 cancellation fee, with 6 hours notice they certainly should be able to fill that spot. A no show is different. No exceptions seems excessive. Her actions cost her much more and as a small business owner she should have realized that would happened.
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Post by littlemama on Mar 4, 2024 14:44:51 GMT
No show fees are ridiculous. If the restaurant is in that much demand, there will be people calling for reservations or walking in hoping for a cancellation.
I could MAYBE see it if the person doesnt call to cancel and just doesnt show up, but even that is a bit shitty.
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christinec68
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,119
Location: New York, NY
Jun 26, 2014 18:02:19 GMT
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Post by christinec68 on Mar 4, 2024 14:49:56 GMT
The restaurant is in the wrong but, what I don't understand was why there was a charge back. The patron said they had insurance through their credit card and going to the ER was definitely covered. Why didn't the CC just credit the patron and leave the restaurant out of it? This is my question as well.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 4, 2024 14:57:48 GMT
The restaurant is in the wrong but, what I don't understand was why there was a charge back. The patron said they had insurance through their credit card and going to the ER was definitely covered. Why didn't the CC just credit the patron and leave the restaurant out of it? This is my question as well. wouldn't they credit the patron but take the fee away from the restaurant? Or are you saying they would have given the restaurant the $250 fee AND compensated the patron?
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christinec68
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,119
Location: New York, NY
Jun 26, 2014 18:02:19 GMT
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Post by christinec68 on Mar 4, 2024 15:08:32 GMT
This is my question as well. wouldn't they credit the patron but take the fee away from the restaurant? Or are you saying they would have given the restaurant the $250 fee AND compensated the patron? The patron paid the restaurant - that transaction was completed at the time the reservation was made. The insurance company, which in this case is also the credit card company, reimburses the patron. Another example, if I go to the doctor and pay them directly then submit a claim to my insurance company, the insurance company reimburses me, they don't take that amount back from the doctor.
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christinec68
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,119
Location: New York, NY
Jun 26, 2014 18:02:19 GMT
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Post by christinec68 on Mar 4, 2024 15:11:32 GMT
No show fees are ridiculous. If the restaurant is in that much demand, there will be people calling for reservations or walking in hoping for a cancellation. I could MAYBE see it if the person doesnt call to cancel and just doesnt show up, but even that is a bit shitty. I think this is an excessively high and rigid cancellation policy but the customer agreed to it when they made the reservation. The article states the patrons were aware that they needed to cancel 48 hours in advance. ETA...I think the restaurant was wrong to go after the customer and they should have tried to fight the chargeback with the credit card company.
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Post by katlady on Mar 4, 2024 15:19:17 GMT
The restaurant is in the wrong but, what I don't understand was why there was a charge back. The patron said they had insurance through their credit card and going to the ER was definitely covered. Why didn't the CC just credit the patron and leave the restaurant out of it? This is my question as well. When I first read this story, this was my thought as well. They bought cancellation insurance. Why was did the restaurant lose their money? I think the restaurant owner went about this all wrong. She shouldn’t have contacted the customer.
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Post by Lexica on Mar 4, 2024 15:31:05 GMT
I would have been a lot more sympathetic to the restaurant had the employee on the phone not used the term “butt hurt” and then the owner/chef not gone to the extent of hunting the customer down and further verbally assaulting them. I would think they would have been better off to have told the customer that they sympathize with their circumstances and are willing to hold onto the $250 to apply it toward a dinner in the future when the customer was able to come. There was no need to verbally abuse the customer. Surely some compromise could have been reached rather than to attack someone. I wouldn’t be upset if they requested applying the fee toward a future dinner conditional on providing proof of hospitalization. I think the death threats are psycho.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Mar 4, 2024 15:34:28 GMT
In 2024 I am not at all surprised the owner reached out to the customer via social media. Hey, customers do it to businesses all the time. In that sense, what's fair is fair. And as with anything else that "goes viral", actions have consequences...the restaurant is now closed and the gay customer is getting death threats. It really didn't take a crystal ball to see either of those coming.
I have zero issues with the customer using travel insurance to recoup any lost money. That's the point of travel insurance and how the credit card company chooses to do that is frankly not the customers problem. I also have no problem with cancellation fees as long as they are clearly stated up front.
All of that being said, the owner is an unhinged asshole. If you read the twitter responses, this isn't the first time the owner has gone after customers. Reading the owners responses, I 100% believe she or the restaurant staff told Trevor to "take it up with his credit card company if he's butt hurt". And he did what they told him to do.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 4, 2024 15:55:40 GMT
In 2024 I am not at all surprised the owner reached out to the customer via social media. Hey, customers do it to businesses all the time. In that sense, what's fair is fair. And as with anything else that "goes viral", actions have consequences...the restaurant is now closed and the gay customer is getting death threats. It really didn't take a crystal ball to see either of those coming. I have zero issues with the customer using travel insurance to recoup any lost money. That's the point of travel insurance and how the credit card company chooses to do that is frankly not the customers problem. I also have no problem with cancellation fees as long as they are clearly stated up front. All of that being said, the owner is an unhinged asshole. If you read the twitter responses, this isn't the first time the owner has gone after customers. Reading the owners responses, I 100% believe she or the restaurant staff told Trevor to "take it up with his credit card company if he's butt hurt". And he did what they told him to do.I couldn't see any responses, I guess I would have to log on to X to see that, it didn't used to be that way. but if that's her MO to go after customers, then I have ZERO empathy for her. Karma. I didn't realize the PATRON was getting death threats, I thought it was the owner!
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Post by lucyg on Mar 4, 2024 17:27:41 GMT
Leaving aside all the “butt hurt” and social media nonsense … if I made a reservation with a restaurant that told me there would be a $250 cancellation fee (for any reason), and then I had to cancel (for any reason) … I would expect to have to pay the fee. I wouldn’t be disputing the charge with my credit card.
If they have insurance that covers such things, then fine, no problem, get reimbursed by insurance. That’s what it’s for.
But arguing with the restaurant over the fee … no. I knew about it up front and I accepted it.
Not to say the restaurant owner doesn't deserve to suffer the consequences of her actions. But death threats? NO.
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sueg
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Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Mar 4, 2024 17:33:36 GMT
The restaurant is in the wrong but, what I don't understand was why there was a charge back. The patron said they had insurance through their credit card and going to the ER was definitely covered. Why didn't the CC just credit the patron and leave the restaurant out of it? Sometimes, Travel Insurance requires you to attempt all other means of recovering your money/goods before they will pay out, so it may be they had to try a chargeback first. One time when my luggage was misplaced for several days, my travel insurance told me I had to ask the airline for compensation first, and they would only pay out if that didn't cover it all, or didn't happen.
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pantsonfire
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Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,722
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Mar 4, 2024 18:03:44 GMT
The restaurant is in the wrong but, what I don't understand was why there was a charge back. The patron said they had insurance through their credit card and going to the ER was definitely covered. Why didn't the CC just credit the patron and leave the restaurant out of it? Sometimes, Travel Insurance requires you to attempt all other means of recovering your money/goods before they will pay out, so it may be they had to try a chargeback first. One time when my luggage was misplaced for several days, my travel insurance told me I had to ask the airline for compensation first, and they would only pay out if that didn't cover it all, or didn't happen. This is true for so many instances. Like when I was double charged. Bank made me reach out to company first. Once they did not fix the issue, the bank did. Same with cancelation of membership and being charged on my cars. Citi Bank made me reach out first to place and they were of no help so Citi Bank reversed the charges
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Post by workingclassdog on Mar 4, 2024 19:01:22 GMT
If that restaurant is in that much of a demand she could have filled those seats in a heartbeat.
She was unprofessional going after him like that and the butt hurt comment. In fact, it's a little stalkerish in my opinion. $250 is nothing now compared to the backlash.
I side with the customer.
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Rhondito
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Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Mar 4, 2024 19:24:52 GMT
I read another article that stated the restaurant violated their own privacy policy by using the patron's personal information from the reservation to track him down on social media. Not cool.
In today's world, the restaurant owner should've fully thought through the consequences before contacting the customer. It doesn't take a genius to see how it could go south.
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Post by Lexica on Mar 4, 2024 20:06:46 GMT
I couldn't see any responses, I guess I would have to log on to X to see that, it didn't used to be that way. but if that's her MO to go after customers, then I have ZERO empathy for her. Karma. I didn't realize the PATRON was getting death threats, I thought it was the owner!According to Boston.Eater.com, both the would-be customer and the restaurant owner are receiving death threats. I do not understand the mentality of someone who would post (or however they went about doing it) a death threat against people they assumably do not know that are involved in a dispute that has zero to do with them. I am hoping they are empty threats, but even so, what in the world do they personally get out of doing that? I am saddened to be living in a world where people think that is an acceptable response. If they don’t like the restaurant’s response, don’t eat there. If they do not like what the gentleman that was hospitalize did, don’t become friends with him. I would think that most of those threats are made by people dissatisfied with their own life and are looking to add some excitement. That is just beyond sad. Oh, and those writing to threaten the would-be dining couple because they are gay are beyond immature. We all share this planet, people. We all get to choose our own partner in life. And they would be a much happier people if they lived that way instead of acting like they get a vote in someone else’s life choices. You don’t. boston.eater.com/2024/2/26/24083939/table-north-end-restaurant-cancellation-fees-viral-customer-exchange
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Post by jackietex on Mar 5, 2024 5:01:09 GMT
If I were the restaurant owner, I'd be pissed about what the employee said! It can be very expensive for them if there is a credit card dispute.
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twinsmomfla99
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Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Mar 5, 2024 9:21:41 GMT
As I understand it, the customer did not dispute the charge or initiate a chargeback.
The customer filed a travel insurance claim under the insurance issued by the credit card company. That claim should have required some proof of hospitalization, but I didn’t see it mentioned in the thread.
According to the customer, once they initiated the insurance claim, their part in this transaction was finished. In a normal insurance claim, the customer would be reimbursed and that would be the end of the story. The insurance payout would have come from the insurance company, and not from the restaurant.
That doesn’t appear to be what happened though. It looks like once the customer filed the insurance claim, the credit card company processed it as a chargeback to the restaurant.
I don’t think the customer bears any blame for the chargeback if that is how it happened. The credit card company/insurance company (I think they may be the same?) should have paid the insurance claim if was approved and not charged the restaurant.
But as far as the drama goes, that is 100% on the restaurant owner.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Mar 5, 2024 12:29:57 GMT
This reminds me of BirdGate when the big scrapbook “artist” refused to refund a pea with cancer. Donna Downey, wasn’t it? It sure backfired on her. Seems this restaurant owner handled it in a similarly poor fashion.
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Post by guzismom on Mar 5, 2024 12:45:40 GMT
Restaurant owner was absolutely in the wrong here. Not for refusing to cancel their cancellation fee, but for sending a message like that and for hunting them down to dm them. Customer seems like he was using his insurance appropriately and I cannot believe any business owner would ever send a message like that. I wonder how she treats her staff? Agree...and I would have done exactly as the customer has done, including shaming her after the fact for her rude, unprofessional messages.
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peppermintpatty
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Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Mar 5, 2024 12:58:23 GMT
There really aren't any repercussions for the owner with regards to the credit card company. The $250 is subject to a charge fee. A refund is also subject to the same charge fee. So she paid probably 5% of the total amount (so around $12). They credit card company would reach out to the owner and get their side of the story. I guarantee that the cc company would side with the owner because it is stated in the reservation conditions that there are no refunds. The owner is covered. That is why the patron went to the travel insurance. Travel insurance in this case (medical reasons) is warranted.
She shouldn't have done what she did, period. She has hurt her business. I know she would have been able to fill that spot. I am also sure she has a cancellation list if the restaurant is in such demand.
No one has the right to make death threats to anyone. People need to mind their own fucking business.
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Post by epeanymous on Mar 5, 2024 13:08:58 GMT
This reminds me of BirdGate when the big scrapbook “artist” refused to refund a pea with cancer. Donna Downey, wasn’t it? It sure backfired on her. Seems this restaurant owner handled it in a similarly poor fashion. I really feel like small business “no refunds” policies implicitly carry an “except in truly catastrophic circumstances” exception, for this reason. When a person becomes precipitously injured or seriously, many of us will think worse of a business thar engages in sharp dealing because it is really unkind. The world is full of restaurants and stores and retreats, and if you think “ew, that owner is a jerk.” that is going to affect your emotional experience of the business, and even if you aren’t a boycotter, you’re going to be less likely to be excited to go.
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