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Post by katlady on Mar 26, 2024 16:08:56 GMT
I just saw the video. I was watching the cars go across. I hope that last car I saw just before the collision made it safely. The bridge looked like matchsticks when it fell. I hope they find the missing people.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 26, 2024 16:10:35 GMT
The rumors start...
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Post by questioning on Mar 26, 2024 16:41:05 GMT
Gov. Moore said that the ship released a mayday call minutes before the impact which allowed traffic to be stopped before they got onto the bridge. This is why there weren't more cars. Thank you, I hadn't read / heard about this. revirdsuba99 stuff that! We need real journalism to return, not irresponsible hacks. Flashback to Diddy and Harry thread.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 26, 2024 17:10:02 GMT
Gov. Moore said that the ship released a mayday call minutes before the impact which allowed traffic to be stopped before they got onto the bridge. This is why there weren't more cars. Thank you, I hadn't read / heard about this. revirdsuba99 stuff that! We need real journalism to return, not irresponsible hacks. Flashback to Diddy and Harry thread. My post above said RUMORS! I haven't posted on the other thread, Diddy and Harry..
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MDscrapaholic
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,375
Location: Down by the bay....
Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Mar 26, 2024 21:01:19 GMT
On the news at noon, they said the bridgetender heard the Mayday message from the ship and stopped all traffic. I’m sure if he hadn’t done that there would be many more casualties.
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Post by disneypal on Mar 26, 2024 21:34:25 GMT
On the news at noon, they said the bridgetender heard the Mayday message from the ship and stopped all traffic. I’m sure if he hadn’t done that there would be many more casualties. When I saw the video, I noticed that cars seemed to be passing on the bridge fairly frequent but just before the collision, I only saw one car, which appeared to make it across. I thought, wow, what luck that they stopped crossing but hearing this makes so much sense! I really hope that no cars were on the bridge because of the Mayday message and bridgetender.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 26, 2024 21:40:43 GMT
The bridge tender, the ship's officer that issued the Mayday and the bridge tender should all be commended for acting quickly and saving lives. Looking at pictures of smaller ships next to the giant container ship gives you a better idea of the scale and the magnitude of the ship. The NYT article has a short video clip that shows a small boat (maybe Habor patrol or state police?) next to the giant container ship. www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2024/03/26/1240914033/photos-baltimore-key-bridge-collapseswww.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/26/us/baltimore-bridge-collapseFederal investigators said they were beginning what could be a long search for answers about how a massive cargo ship struck a major bridge minutes after leaving the Port of Baltimore early Tuesday. The ship’s crew issued a warning that it had lost power, giving officials a brief chance to stop cars and try to evacuate the span before it fell into the river.
Six construction workers who had been fixing potholes on the Francis Scott Key Bridge remained missing on Tuesday afternoon as divers and other emergency workers on boats and helicopters searched for them. The National Transportation Safety Board, which is leading the inquiry, said its investigators were holding back while the search continued.
Gov. Wes Moore of Maryland called the episode a terrible accident. “We haven’t seen any credible evidence of a terrorist attack,” he said — an assessment that was confirmed by the F.B.I. The bridge is part of Interstate 695.
Initially, officials feared that drivers were submerged in their cars in the Patapsco River. But the warning from the Dali, a Singapore-flagged vessel, gave officials enough time to stop traffic at both ends of the bridge, according to several federal and Maryland officials.
The people who blocked traffic “undoubtedly saved lives,” President Biden said from the White House on Tuesday. He added that the Coast Guard would continue search-and-rescue efforts and that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers would clear the channel to help reopen Baltimore to ship traffic. “We’re going to rebuild that port together,” he said, pledging federal money to the effort.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 26, 2024 21:50:13 GMT
Really early to speculate, but there are questions about fenders around the pier to protect it from water and possible collisions. However, it's hard to imagine how fenders could have saved the pier from such a massive ship when it was underway. Also, given the structure of the bow of the container ship, it seems likely the ship hit the pier much higher than the waterline. I'm not sure how high above the water fenders are constructed? www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/26/us/baltimore-bridge-collapseThe Key Bridge in Baltimore suffered a near-total collapse after a large container ship appeared to strike a critical component, known as a pylon or pier, and much of the structure above it plummeted into the water below, according to several engineers who have reviewed footage of the incident.
Without the pier, they said, it was impossible for other components of the bridge to assume the load and keep the bridge standing.
The piers on a bridge act as a kind of leg and are what is known as “nonredundant” parts of a bridge’s structure. If a pier is somehow taken out, there is nothing to compensate for the missing structural support, and a collapse of the bridge is all but inevitable, most of the analysts said.
Yet the collapse in Baltimore on Tuesday might have been avoided, some of the engineers said, if the piers were adequately equipped with blocking devices with a self-explanatory name: fenders. In bridge engineering, fenders can be anything from simple pyramids of rocks piled around the pylons to major concrete rings padded with slats of wood, designed to shield the bridge’s supports from damage by water or collisions.
It was not clear whether any such protection built around the bridge’s piers was sufficient to guard against even a glancing hit from a 95,000-gross-ton container vessel.
The Maryland Transportation Authority did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the design of the piers, or whether any fenders were installed around them.
At a news conference on Tuesday afternoon, the chair of the National Transportation Safety Board, Jennifer Homendy, said protective structures would be a part of the investigation into the bridge’s collapse. “There’s some questions about the structure of the bridge — protective structure around the bridge or around the piers to make sure there isn’t a collapse,” she said, responding to a reporter’s question.
“We are aware of what a structure should have. Part of our investigation will be how was this bridge constructed? It will look at the structure itself. Should there be any sort of safety improvements? All of that will be part of our investigation.”
A widely circulated video of the Key Bridge failure drew attention to the disastrous collapse of the upper bridge structure. But engineers who reviewed the footage said that did not appear to be the culprit in the disaster. Instead, they said, the superstructure failure was most likely a secondary effect of the pier crumbling beneath it after the collision.
Engineers who reviewed images of the bridge both before and after the collapse said no significant fender structures were visible. Only fairly small structures were visible in photos taken at the foot of the pier, and they did not appear to be substantial enough to be able to stop a large ship, some of them said. They said the structures may have served another purpose entirely — like preventing water from scouring and undermining the pier’s foundation.
In some bridges, engineers may elect, instead of fendering, “the alternative of making the pier exceptionally strong,” said Shankar Nair, a structural engineer with over half a century of experience who is a member of the National Academy of Engineering. But the visual evidence so far, he and others said, suggested that the pier was simply not strong enough to survive the collision.
The structure’s apparent vulnerability left some engineers dumbfounded.
“This is a huge shock,” Dr. Nair said. “A bridge of that size and importance should not collapse when hit by an errant vessel.”
The importance of sturdy fenders on bridge piers was backed up by a similar accident that occurred in 2013 when a 752-foot-long tanker collided with a support of the San Francisco‒Oakland Bay Bridge. According to a National Transportation Safety Board report on the incident, the support stood — although $1.4 million in damage was done to the fendering system, which cushioned the impact.
In other cases when collisions lead to full or partial collapses, shortcomings in the fendering system are usually involved, said Matthys Levy, a longtime structural engineer and co-author of “Why Buildings Fall Down.”
“It’s usually an issue of fendering,” Mr. Levy said. “The fendering is not strong enough.”
According to a description of the Key Bridge by an American Society of Civil Engineers manual, the 8,636-foot-long structure in Baltimore was opened to traffic in 1977. The steel span above it, a design known as a truss, can be vulnerable to failure itself — damage to individual elements of the truss can theoretically cascade into a wider collapse. But that did not appear to be the case in Baltimore, engineers who reviewed the footage said: The truss, they said, was simply unable to remain intact when the pier was taken out beneath it.
Tuesday’s collapse raises the question “of how vulnerable are the piers and what is done or should have been done to protect them in the event of something like this,” said Donald O. Dusenberry, a consulting engineer who has investigated many bridge failures.
Mr. Dusenberry, in pointing to the issue of fender protection, said that it was impossible to make a full determination of what was installed without reviewing structural drawings of the bridge.
But images taken before the disaster, he said, suggested that small barriers that could be seen rising around the bridge’s piers, roughly at water level, would be unlikely to be able to stop a large ship. Effective fenders, he said, had to be far enough from the pier to keep the bow of a large ship from striking the pier, and large enough to absorb the energy of a collision. Assuming nothing had changed since the prior pictures were taken, he said, the visible structures did not seem up to that task.
“Maybe it would stop a ferry or something like that,” he said. “Not a massive, oceangoing cargo ship.”
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,762
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Mar 26, 2024 22:24:14 GMT
Thank you, I hadn't read / heard about this. revirdsuba99 stuff that! We need real journalism to return, not irresponsible hacks. Flashback to Diddy and Harry thread. My post above said RUMORS! I haven't posted on the other thread, Diddy and Harry.. Yes, it did. It would just be nice to have a thread, especially one where lives were lost, that doesn't have rumors and political bs posts.
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Post by Lurkingpea on Mar 27, 2024 1:48:58 GMT
How long was the relay from the message about needing to close the bridge to execution?
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Post by boys5times on Mar 27, 2024 3:22:49 GMT
I just read that this was the 2nd time this ship hit a bridge (the first time in 2016 or 2018; can't remember which.)
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Post by gar on Mar 27, 2024 8:38:16 GMT
How long was the relay from the message about needing to close the bridge to execution? A few minutes apparently...4 maybe? Enough to save sme precious lives.
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Post by Lurkingpea on Mar 27, 2024 12:42:28 GMT
How long was the relay from the message about needing to close the bridge to execution? A few minutes apparently...4 maybe? Enough to save sme precious lives. That is just amazing to me. So thankful that the response was so quick. Thank you taking the time to answer. Praying for those lost and affected by this.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,842
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Mar 27, 2024 17:31:04 GMT
How long was the relay from the message about needing to close the bridge to execution? It was minutes
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,842
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Mar 27, 2024 17:33:24 GMT
The smaller tender ships were trying to move it away from the piers but realized that they didn't have enough time to move it and the current was too strong so they had to abandon the idea and let it collide. There wasn't anything to be done.
The people on the bridge really did an amazing job stopping all traffic from crossing. I hope they can find the 6 men lost. It is a recovery as of this morning. There isn't any way anyone could survive in that water.
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Post by melanell on Mar 27, 2024 17:59:29 GMT
I feel so badly about the crew that was on the bridge. I wish they could have left the bridge during that short window of time when traffic was being stopped, but I know they never anticipated anything as catastrophic as what occurred. My heart goes out to all of their loved ones.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 27, 2024 21:38:57 GMT
How long was the relay from the message about needing to close the bridge to execution? Really fast. Less than a minute on one end of the bridge. And maybe 1-2 minutes for the other? NYT had the audio transcript of the radio call. www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/us/baltimore-key-bridge-mayday-call-radio.htmlShortly before a massive cargo ship struck the Francis Scott Key Bridge early Tuesday, crew members issued a mayday call that allowed officers a few precious minutes to close down the bridge to traffic, likely saving lives.
A construction crew fixing potholes was unable to escape in time. Six workers are presumed dead, and recovery efforts to find their bodies are continuing. The effort to rapidly shut down traffic likely prevented more cars from being on the bridge during the collapse, officials said.
Here is a transcript of audio from a Maryland Transportation Authority Police channel, revealing how officers responded to the mayday call and successfully halted traffic. The audio was posted on the Broadcastify website.
1:27:53 a.m. Speaker 1: I need one of you guys on the south side, one of you guys on the north side, hold all traffic on the Key Bridge. There’s a ship approaching that just lost their steering. So until they get that under control, we’ve got to stop all traffic.
1:28:09 a.m. Speaker 2: (inaudible) I’m en route to the south side.
1:28:13 a.m. Speaker 3: (inaudible) I’m holding traffic now. I was driving but we stopped prior to the bridge, so I’ll have all outer loop traffic stopped.
1:28:25 a.m. Speaker 1: 10-4, is there a crew working on the bridge right now?
1:28:29 a.m. Speaker 4: (inaudible)
1:28:35 a.m. Speaker 1: Got it.
1:28:37 a.m. Speaker 4: Want me to stop traffic along this side right now?
1:28:42 a.m. Speaker 1: Yeah if we could stop traffic, just make sure no one’s on the bridge right now. I’m not sure where there’s a crew up there. You might want to notify whoever the foreman is, see if we could get them off the bridge temporarily.
1:28:58 a.m. Speaker 4: 10-4, once the other unit gets here I’ll ride up on the bridge. I have all inner loop traffic stopped at this time.
1:29:17 a.m. Speaker 4: Once you get here, I’ll go grab the workers on the Key Bridge and then stop the outer loop.
1:29:27 a.m. Speaker 5: C-13 Dispatch, the whole bridge just fell down! (inaudible), whoever, everybody, the whole bridge just collapsed.
1:29:35 a.m. Speaker 6: 10-4. Dispatch is direct.
1:29:35 a.m. Speaker 4: That’s correct. (inaudible) First time.
1:29:48 a.m. Speaker 1: Do we know if all traffic was stopped?
1:29:51 a.m. Speaker 4: I can’t get to the other side, sir, the bridge is down. We’re going to have to get somebody on the other side in Anne Arundel County, M.S.P. to get up here and stop traffic coming northbound on the Key Bridge.
1:29:51 a.m. Speaker 5: C13, I’m holding all traffic northbound.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 27, 2024 21:40:42 GMT
Really sad for all of the families and friends of the construction crew. www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/27/us/baltimore-key-bridge-collapse#what-we-know-about-the-six-men-presumed-dead-in-the-bridge-collapseDetails have begun to emerge about some of the six people who were missing after plunging into the water after the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore collapsed on Tuesday.
Officials have said the six men are presumed dead. On Wednesday, divers were working through dangerous conditions to recover the bodies. Two surviving workers were pulled from the river on Tuesday.
Here’s what we know so far about the men, who were working as contractors doing overnight maintenance on the bridge:
Miguel Luna, in his 40s, from El Salvador, is married and has three children, said Gustavo Torres, the executive director of the nonprofit We Are Casa, which provides services to immigrants in Baltimore. He said Mr. Luna had been living in Maryland for at least 19 years.
Maynor Yasir Suazo Sandoval, in his 30s, of Honduras, immigrated to the United States more than 17 years ago, according to Mr. Torres, and is married with two children. In a statement provided to The Times via We Are Casa, Mr. Suazo’s brother, Carlos, described him as having a special talent for repairing and operating all kinds of machinery, and said that he dreamed of starting his own small business. “He was always so full of joy, and brought so much humor to our family,” Carlos Suazo said, noting that the family was planning to celebrate his brother’s next birthday on April 27.
All of the men worked for Brawner, a contractor based in Baltimore County, a senior executive at the company said on Tuesday. They were immigrants from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Mexico, according to consular authorities and the nonprofit.
The president of Mexico said on Wednesday that two of missing men were Mexican citizens and that one of the people rescued was also a Mexican citizen.
Guatemala’s foreign affairs ministry confirmed that two of the workers were Guatemalan nationals, from the regions of Petén and Chiquimula. The ministry, which did not release the names, said that the country’s consul general in Maryland had spoken with the siblings of the two workers and was hoping to meet with their families.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 28, 2024 0:17:28 GMT
Acting Secretary of LaborMy heart is broken for the Bridge workers and their families. These men were fathers, sons, and members of vibrant communities around Baltimore. They were performing the critical work of keeping our infrastructure safe and in good condition when the unthinkable happened.
Many of them had made Maryland and this country their home after arriving as immigrants--no doubt in search of the promise of America: that if you work hard, you have the opportunity to get ahead.
As @usdol mobilizes to support this recovery and rebuild effort, I will be thinking of them and how we as a nation can honor their memory.
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Post by katlady on Mar 28, 2024 4:12:34 GMT
What is the inner and outer loop on this bridge? I've heard it mentioned before in an article. I have all inner loop traffic stopped at this time. They are reporting they found two bodies. Those poor workers. They had no time to flee.
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Post by monklady123 on Mar 28, 2024 10:23:28 GMT
What is the inner and outer loop on this bridge? I've heard it mentioned before in an article. I have all inner loop traffic stopped at this time. They are reporting they found two bodies. Those poor workers. They had no time to flee. Do you mean what is the meaning of "inner loop" and "outer loop"? If so, it's just a reference to which direction the particular side of the highway is going. At least with the DC Beltway that's what it means. The Inner Loop is for the clockwise side, and the Outer Loop is for the counterclockwise side. I'm assuming Baltimore is the same.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 28, 2024 11:40:34 GMT
How long was the relay from the message about needing to close the bridge to execution? Really fast. Less than a minute on one end of the bridge. And maybe 1-2 minutes for the other? NYT had the audio transcript of the radio call. www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/us/baltimore-key-bridge-mayday-call-radio.htmlShortly before a massive cargo ship struck the Francis Scott Key Bridge early Tuesday, crew members issued a mayday call that allowed officers a few precious minutes to close down the bridge to traffic, likely saving lives.
A construction crew fixing potholes was unable to escape in time. Six workers are presumed dead, and recovery efforts to find their bodies are continuing. The effort to rapidly shut down traffic likely prevented more cars from being on the bridge during the collapse, officials said.
Here is a transcript of audio from a Maryland Transportation Authority Police channel, revealing how officers responded to the mayday call and successfully halted traffic. The audio was posted on the Broadcastify website.
1:27:53 a.m. Speaker 1: I need one of you guys on the south side, one of you guys on the north side, hold all traffic on the Key Bridge. There’s a ship approaching that just lost their steering. So until they get that under control, we’ve got to stop all traffic.
1:28:09 a.m. Speaker 2: (inaudible) I’m en route to the south side.
1:28:13 a.m. Speaker 3: (inaudible) I’m holding traffic now. I was driving but we stopped prior to the bridge, so I’ll have all outer loop traffic stopped.
1:28:25 a.m. Speaker 1: 10-4, is there a crew working on the bridge right now?
1:28:29 a.m. Speaker 4: (inaudible)
1:28:35 a.m. Speaker 1: Got it.
1:28:37 a.m. Speaker 4: Want me to stop traffic along this side right now?
1:28:42 a.m. Speaker 1: Yeah if we could stop traffic, just make sure no one’s on the bridge right now. I’m not sure where there’s a crew up there. You might want to notify whoever the foreman is, see if we could get them off the bridge temporarily.
1:28:58 a.m. Speaker 4: 10-4, once the other unit gets here I’ll ride up on the bridge. I have all inner loop traffic stopped at this time.
1:29:17 a.m. Speaker 4: Once you get here, I’ll go grab the workers on the Key Bridge and then stop the outer loop.
1:29:27 a.m. Speaker 5: C-13 Dispatch, the whole bridge just fell down! (inaudible), whoever, everybody, the whole bridge just collapsed.
1:29:35 a.m. Speaker 6: 10-4. Dispatch is direct.
1:29:35 a.m. Speaker 4: That’s correct. (inaudible) First time.
1:29:48 a.m. Speaker 1: Do we know if all traffic was stopped?
1:29:51 a.m. Speaker 4: I can’t get to the other side, sir, the bridge is down. We’re going to have to get somebody on the other side in Anne Arundel County, M.S.P. to get up here and stop traffic coming northbound on the Key Bridge.
1:29:51 a.m. Speaker 5: C13, I’m holding all traffic northbound.I listened to it and had goosebumps and felt so terrible, they really tried to get everyone off the bridge and stop people from coming on it.
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Post by Merge on Mar 28, 2024 12:49:25 GMT
This is all just horrible. Everything from the event itself to the nasty speculation about the cause. Those poor men. And the workers who watched it happen. I’ll be thinking of all of them, and their families.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,884
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Mar 28, 2024 12:57:15 GMT
I feel so bad for the men that did not survive. I wish there was a little more time to warn them, but thankful that there was at least some time to stop traffic on the bridge.
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naby64
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,933
Jun 25, 2014 21:44:13 GMT
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Post by naby64 on Mar 28, 2024 13:47:24 GMT
This is all just horrible. Everything from the event itself to the nasty speculation about the cause. Those poor men. And the workers who watched it happen. I’ll be thinking of all of them, and their families. Oh and the hounds were on it first thing yesterday morning on TikTok. I had to put my phone down to not comment. I didn't want anymore of that filth on my FYP.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 28, 2024 13:56:31 GMT
They did find 2 of the men yesterday, in their truck.
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Post by ntsf on Mar 28, 2024 20:38:03 GMT
one survivor.. I heard on the news said the repair crew on the bridge were in their vehicles on break. so the bodies may still be found when they remove all the bridge parts.
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Post by kluski on Mar 29, 2024 3:34:41 GMT
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Post by questioning on Mar 29, 2024 15:57:19 GMT
Thank you, I hadn't read / heard about this. C stuff that! We need real journalism to return, not irresponsible hacks. Flashback to Diddy and Harry thread. My post above said RUMORS! I haven't posted on the other thread, Diddy and Harry.. revirdsuba99 I apologize, I wasn't saying you were the journalist, or referencing anything you wrote on another thread. Coming back to this days later I see how my post might read that way. The 'stuff that' was to the anchor/reporter referenced.
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Post by kluski on Mar 29, 2024 20:45:45 GMT
We have some heavy cranes in the Bay to help clean up the bridge.
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