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Post by anotherpeayouknow on Jan 19, 2015 19:14:48 GMT
Some background: I am the youngest of three, the other two both being boys. My father worked in a factory and growing up I decided I wanted nothing of that and decided I would go to college. Neither of my brothers decided to go to college and both are or have been employed in factories so, very hard work. I went to a private college and it cost about 40k for 3.5 years. I paid for half through loans and my parents paid half. If my brothers had decided to go to college, I would have had to go a state school, which is where they probably would have chosen.
In the list of kids I'd say we are progressively more successful. My oldest brother was married, made horrible money choices and lives with my parents and has a job delivering pizza. My parents previously helped him and his wife out with money a lot. He is now divorced and has lived with them for about 7 years. He does pay some, but they support him mostly. He has filed for bankruptcy several times.
My middle brother is married and has a decent job, but him and his wife live way beyond their means. They have very nice things, but have had money problems and have filed for bankruptcy once. My parent have helped them out by lending money (which they do pay back) and signing loans for them. They have also helped them in many other ways, just not monetarily. If they would make better choices with money, they make a very decent wage which would afford them a nice lifestyle, without money issues. He has typical middle child syndrome. Nothing with my parents was ever fair.
Me, I have a good job making good money. I have never had to borrow money or have my parents help me monetarily in any way. I am also very independent and have had very little help in other ways either. I live about an hour away and they all live in the same city. Personally, I have always been burdened with the emotional issues of the family. I was told about problems with my parents marriage at what I consider an inappropriate age, when it was kept from everyone else. I was told personal things about my mothers past, that probably shouldn't have been told to a child either. I was the one my mother went to when her father was dying and I was used as more of a friend, a should to cry on and vent to than an adult child losing her grandfather. I don't know that the emotional stuff has anything to do with what I'm about to tell you (and there is a point), but I feel like it does.
So my point is: my parents told me that my middle brother has bothered them so much about the fact that they paid for me to go to college, that my mother finally relented and said, "fine, we'll put it in the will you get an extra 20k". They decided they are not going to put it in the will, but it is up to me and my middle brother (we are executors) if he gets the extra money.
I've already made up my mind to let him have it, because it's just not worth causing bad blood over. But, I feel annoyed. He gets the money even though I (and my parents) don't think he deserves it. He made the choice not to go to college and now he's suffering the consequences of it and other bad decisions. My parents don't have much, so I doubt there will even be much left after he takes his 20k.
I'm sure it's selfish of me to feel this way, but I am upset a little. I'm annoyed that they put me in this situation ( hey lookie, ANOTHER emotional burden) and I'm annoyed that my brother is bitter and feels he deserves it. As for my oldest brother, my parent feel like he's pretty much used up any inheritance already.
This probably won't even be brought up for 15-20 years and I'm sure I will have made my peace with it by then but I'm annoyed now.
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Post by maryland on Jan 19, 2015 19:27:35 GMT
Wow, just wow! I can't imagine an adult would take advantage of parents like that. They would have paid for him to go to college if he wanted. It's not like they just gave you the money to spend as you want. It's to help him get a better job. It sounds like they have already given your brothers more than they ever gave you for college. I am sorry you are faced with this!
Is there something they can set up so he only gets a certain amount every month? Or the money is only to go to education or trade school or something to help him get a job. Not just for him to blow in a few months?
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NoWomanNoCry
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Jan 19, 2015 19:30:02 GMT
I'd flat out tell mom and dad if they want him go have 20k then they need to add it in will and not put that on you and your other brother.
If your parents didn't really want to give it to him they could have said no. Seems like they need a backbone (I say this with kindness) in regards to saying "No" to people asking for money.
Good luck! Not a position I would want to be in.
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tincin
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Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Jan 19, 2015 19:30:04 GMT
I would be annoyed as well. If he has lived with them for the past 7 years he has obviously been given a leg up as well. The cost of a place, even a one bedroom apartment, would be almost if not equal to the $20,000 they spent on your college tuition. I wouldn't worry about it and when the time comes I would do exactly what the will says, whether that is dividing it equally or not.
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Post by deep on Jan 19, 2015 19:32:20 GMT
You are absolutely correct on this. There are no do-overs big brother! There is no way your mother should be bullied into giving anything to him. Perhaps you could get a rough estimate of the money your parents have given over the years, a monthly rent amount, etc and deduct that from the $20K. I'm sure he would be happy to pay the estate if he comes out in the red.  |
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smginaz Suzy
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Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Jan 19, 2015 19:33:27 GMT
Why would they not offer to pay him 20k towards going to college now? Is there a reason he is no longer capable of getting a college education?
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blue tulip
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Post by blue tulip on Jan 19, 2015 19:36:51 GMT
yeah, even with 20 years I don't think I could get to a place where I was ok with that. sounds like that brother is a perpetual victim, and he can't take responsibility for where he is in life because of his own poor decisions. I would NOT be ok with my parents shirkng the responsibility of either giving him the money or telling him sorry, they didn't put it in the will. and what does your middle brother think?! he didn't go to college either, AND he wouldn't be getting a big windfall from your parents?
is this money coming from life insurance or some sort of benefit that will only vest when they die? otherwise, how is that $20k going to help him after he's made 20 more years of bad decisions? if they want to try to help him, offer him classes or college now. if he doesn't want to take them, then it's shown his issue is not really with his perceived lack of educational opportunity.
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Post by Skellinton on Jan 19, 2015 19:36:59 GMT
Can't you just tell your parents you don't feel comfortable with that and they need to have it spelled out in the will. Or would it be better if you weren't executor of the will? Personally I would rather my parents spend their money while they are alive doing things they want to do and I hope there isn't much left when they pass away.
It is a tough spot to put you in, and really not fair of them. Especially since your parents could live for years and years and end up being burdens to you and your siblings and maybe there won't even be the 20,000. I would tell them you aren't comfortable with that burden, and you are correct that it is not equal.
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wellway
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jan 19, 2015 19:39:58 GMT
Just a thought, would there be a tax implication if the money does not come direct from your parents but in effect from you and your other brother as it has to come from your inheritance?
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Post by anotherpeayouknow on Jan 19, 2015 19:42:32 GMT
Just to be clear - it is my middle brother and I that are executors of the will and it is the same one that wants the money. He's forty and he wouldn't go back to school or start over. He makes what most people would consider good money. My parents don't really have the money now to give him. They are both retired and using it to live off of. What I'm talking about is probably the money from the house selling. That's probably all that will be left. And even that is up in the air because we don't know what kind of health problems they may incur in the future.
And the rub of it all....if my parents need help as they age, guess who will be the only one able to help them out monetarily? Me. Not my brother who wants the money.
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Post by roundtwo on Jan 19, 2015 19:46:32 GMT
I was facing a similar issue a couple years back with the ex taking money that was "mine" from an inheritance. I talked with a very wise and wonderful friend who completely understood why I was so angry and frustrated and often commiserated with me about this and few other things that I was going through my divorce.
Finally one day she said to me "Are you generally happy where you are right now?" I was. Then she asked what I would do with the money and I told her I'd pay bills, maybe go on a little trip, spoil my kids. She pointed out that I was already doing those things. Then she asked if I thought the money would really change my life or was the fact that it was the ex being an ass again that was the real issue. I had to agree that she was probably right on that point. She also pointed out that the ex would blow through it in a matter of months, would be in the same spot he was in now but wouldn't be able to blame me for any of it - that would bring a great deal of peace to my life.
I don't think you are being selfish at all. It is hard to see others constantly make bad choices and not have to pay for them but as my friend pointed out, I was making decent choices and definitely enjoying the result. I was out a few thousand dollars but as you have said, sometimes it is worth it to prevent bigger issues down the road.
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Jan 19, 2015 19:47:55 GMT
sounds like your parents failed all of you in different ways and still are.
I would abide by what the will says period. If they add it to the will, so be it. If they don't, then so be that too. I'd never speak of it again either.
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Post by deep on Jan 19, 2015 19:54:19 GMT
I apologize. I misread that and missed that it was middle brother rather than the oldest. My main point still stands that his argument is ridiculous. You can't go back in time 20 years. I do agree that if your parents want to do something it should be clearly written down in the will rather than "figure it out when I'm gone"
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Post by Pahina722 on Jan 19, 2015 19:56:29 GMT
Since I am in a similar situation with my parents, I feel your pain. my mother made noises for a while about willing my nephew their house because he's a junkie and will never be able to support himself. I finally had to state that I would refuse to be the executor of the will if they put any such provision in it.
Not that logic works very well with parental guilt, but I would try to reason with them and have them calculate how much they've already given to each of your brothers and compare that to how much it cost to put you through college. Perhaps if they see it in black and white, they will quit feeling guilty about your brothers' bad choices and do the right thing in the will: divide any assets equally.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 19, 2015 20:00:19 GMT
I really feel for you, your parents have put you into a no win situation. Trust me the aggravation of being executor will be enough to put you in the edge, much less having to make that kind of choice ( and be the fall guy ) honestly I'd feel like telling my parents I didn't want to be executor if they are going to okay games like that. ( telling him they will give him money and then not )
Why doesn't he go to college or trade school now? Why wait and pester your parents for another few decades? Why not get a grip on his life? I don't get it.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 20:37:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 20:01:16 GMT
Just to be clear - it is my middle brother and I that are executors of the will and it is the same one that wants the money. He's forty and he wouldn't go back to school or start over. He makes what most people would consider good money. My parents don't really have the money now to give him. They are both retired and using it to live off of. What I'm talking about is probably the money from the house selling. That's probably all that will be left. And even that is up in the air because we don't know what kind of health problems they may incur in the future. And the rub of it all....if my parents need help as they age, guess who will be the only one able to help them out monetarily? Me. Not my brother who wants the money. In general I'm against a reverse mortgage. But, if my aging parents reached a point they needed help monetarily AND I knew what you know about their will. I'd encourage them to look into a reverse mortgage so they have the cash in hand to live on without assistance for as long as possible. Then there assets would go to supporting them and there wouldn't be anything left to wrangle about afterward. |
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Post by bc2ca on Jan 19, 2015 20:01:51 GMT
Just to be clear - it is my middle brother and I that are executors of the will and it is the same one that wants the money. He's forty and he wouldn't go back to school or start over. He makes what most people would consider good money. My parents don't really have the money now to give him. They are both retired and using it to live off of. What I'm talking about is probably the money from the house selling. That's probably all that will be left. And even that is up in the air because we don't know what kind of health problems they may incur in the future. And the rub of it all....if my parents need help as they age, guess who will be the only one able to help them out monetarily? Me. Not my brother who wants the money. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. DH and I both have at least one sibling who feels they didn't get their share (neither married or has kids), including one that has been financially subsidized way beyond what a functioning adult should be (IMHO) and still feels he is "owed". It sounds like you are being asked to "gift" one brother a portion of your potential inheritance, which could have tax implications. Are your parents wanting to keep it out of the Will to keep the 3rd sibling in the dark? I bolded the above, because it is really reasonable that they will end up selling their house to finance care/housing in the future and there could be very little left. I'd be wary of a promise to pay brother $20K. If that much is not left from your parents estates, are you expected to pay him any difference? This is one that I would push back on the parents. They can do what they want in their Will, but to obligate you outside of that is not fair. |
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Post by hop2 on Jan 19, 2015 20:06:18 GMT
Also if I were your parents and I was serious about the $20k then I'd put it in a 529account and will him that account not have my other child play referee with quasi legal things after I was dead. But if my kid was being an entitled pain in the ass over college money then I'd be sure they got college money only.
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Post by bigbundt on Jan 19, 2015 20:07:20 GMT
If they want to not bother with the 20k then they need to put it in their will. It's not fair to put that on you and your brother. To not is to create bad blood once they are gone. Either you and your brother because you would have to part with $20k to placate your the brother or your brother will be pissed at you if you decided to administer the will as it is written.
And I can sympathize with parents feeling like they give more to another sibling. My parents were visiting not too long ago and my mom basically said, "You guys get even the property but your brother is $8,000 ahead because I had to pay for your first wedding." And I was flabbergasted because my parents have not supported me since I was 20 years old (I'm 37) and the money I had borrowed before that has been paid back. Meanwhile my brother farted around in school (as in "going to college" for 10 years while working as a bartender for more years after that and still has not earned a degree (I know they paid for a few semesters), my mom paid for his health insurance for 15 years, he lived with them rent free for four years, she was giving him an allowance for a few years, they bought him a cheap trailer that he made money on with roommates and he trashed so much they were unable to sell it and recoop some costs, etc. But nope, he didn't get married so he is entitled to that extra $8,000 because otherwise things were 100% even stevens in regards to financial support given over the past 17 years. Roll.Eyes.
It's not about the money, it's about my mom insisting that she is always 100% equal with her kids and how amazing she is for doing so.
ETA: Sorry, I went on my own tirade there.
Your parents really need to spell out the 20k in their will, not be all wishy washy and putting the ultimate decision on you, who will still living and having a relationship with your brother.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jan 19, 2015 20:09:08 GMT
I would feel upset as well. Can it even work that he is an executor and will give himself money? If your parents want to leave him an extra 20k, then they need to put that in their will and not put it on you (sounds like they were just too wimpy to say "no" outright and pushed it onto you).
It will likely be a moot point anyway. If your parents don't have a lot of money, it will most likely be used up by living and health care as they get older.
If you end up helping your parents financially, I would document, document, document or talk to a professional (lawyer, accountant, somebody) who can help set up how it is done.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jan 19, 2015 20:11:47 GMT
I understand what you mean and agree with you. My situation got so bad, the what-ifs were waking me up at night, my DH threatened to talk to my parents. I asked him to wait and now ten years later opinions have changed. They've made different decisions and have new wills.
But it's funny, in those interim years I became used to their idea and was prepared to follow through as executor.
Maybe time will help you accept it, and help your parents see things clearly.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jan 19, 2015 20:12:40 GMT
Also if I were your parents and I was serious about the $20k then I'd put it in a 529account and will him that account not have my other child play referee with quasi legal things after I was dead. But if my kid was being an entitled pain in the ass over college money then I'd be sure they got college money only. Can you do a 529 for an adult? That's interesting thought!! |
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Post by anotherpeayouknow on Jan 19, 2015 20:18:47 GMT
I'm not sure why they won't put it in the will. maybe because a lot can happen between then and now. I don't know. They wouldn't be doing it so the oldest is left out in the dark. Oldest brother knows they have helped him out a lot and doesn't really expect anything other than his third. I will definitely Have to look into the tax Implications and talk to my parents about that.
Middle brother has always felt like life wasn't fair for him. Things are not good for him right now and instead of owning it, he's thinking if he just had that 20k all of his problems would be over.....
I feel like I'm getting screwed.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 19, 2015 20:19:14 GMT
I would feel upset as well. Can it even work that he is an executor and will give himself money? If your parents want to leave him an extra 20k, then they need to put that in their will and not put it on you (sounds like they were just too wimpy to say "no" outright and pushed it onto you). It will likely be a moot point anyway. If your parents don't have a lot of money, it will most likely be used up by living and health care as they get older. If you end up helping your parents financially, I would document, document, document or talk to a professional (lawyer, accountant, somebody) who can help set up how it is done. Actually an executor is 'entitled ' to a certain percentage off the top for the work' if being executor though I have never known anyone who took it. Otherwise I'm not sure it could be done as the other brother could sue for the will not being distributed as directed. However from what the op says there won't be enough left for that. I just thinks it rotten for your oatents to expect you to do it afterwards. If they want to do it then put it in the will and stop playing games to pit your children against each other |
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 19, 2015 20:19:37 GMT
Also if I were your parents and I was serious about the $20k then I'd put it in a 529account and will him that account not have my other child play referee with quasi legal things after I was dead. But if my kid was being an entitled pain in the ass over college money then I'd be sure they got college money only. Can you do a 529 for an adult? That's interesting thought!! you can do a 529 for anybody |
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Post by hop2 on Jan 19, 2015 20:21:05 GMT
Also if I were your parents and I was serious about the $20k then I'd put it in a 529account and will him that account not have my other child play referee with quasi legal things after I was dead. But if my kid was being an entitled pain in the ass over college money then I'd be sure they got college money only. Can you do a 529 for an adult? That's interesting thought!! I have no idea but I'd be annoyed if my kid was being a pita about stuff. Op's oatents don't have the money anyway so they shouldn't have said it. |
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 20:37:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 20:32:09 GMT
I seriously do not get the mindset some adult children have that their parents owe them anything.
If your parents want your brother to get an extra $20k from their estate, it is THEIR responsibility to spell it out in their wills. They're wrong to put the burden on you. And if they think it's going to solve your brother's childish demands for more money, they're mistaken. If it's not put in the will, he will forever badger you about it. And nothing will be good enough for him.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 20:37:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 20:32:38 GMT
I don't know what to tell you because we are dealing with the same sort of thing with DH's mother. First, she has nothing. So there's that. But anyway, DH is the executor because (her words) he is the only one that she can trust and the past proves that is true.
DH's 2 brothers and one sister have all been to prison and have been a burden on society since before they could drive. Poor choices and still choose not to work anymore than they can get away with.
So, DH and I both work. We have busted our asses since we married at 18 to do more, do better and get to where we are. So, yes we have a nice home, cars, take trips etc but we WORK for them!. Anyway, about 2 years ago MIL is at our house and they are once again discussing the "estate" and she says I want everything split equally between the four of you except for my van. I want it to go to sister because unlike you she has never had a nice car. WTF???
First, I don't want the damn van but for the love of pete she could have a nice car if she chose to work, not do drugs, stay out of prison etc, etc.! I actually told MIL "You know why we have nice cars? Because we get our ass out of bed every morning and go to work"
So, I just wanted to say I know how you feel.
My sister went to college, I didn't but I damn sure don't feel like my parents owe me anything because of that.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 19, 2015 20:46:54 GMT
If your parents want to give him the $20K he thinks they "owe" him, THEY need to be the ones to legally make it so. It's not right of them to put it on you knowing that it will create a rift between you and your brother after they are gone. This exact kind of thing has ripped our family apart and created so much unneeded drama after our mom passed away. It's been awful, and after over 3.5 years it's still going on.  I've had enough already and can't wait until it's totally done. It's past the point of ridiculous. |
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jan 19, 2015 20:47:16 GMT
I would feel upset as well. Can it even work that he is an executor and will give himself money? If your parents want to leave him an extra 20k, then they need to put that in their will and not put it on you (sounds like they were just too wimpy to say "no" outright and pushed it onto you). It will likely be a moot point anyway. If your parents don't have a lot of money, it will most likely be used up by living and health care as they get older. If you end up helping your parents financially, I would document, document, document or talk to a professional (lawyer, accountant, somebody) who can help set up how it is done. Actually an executor is 'entitled ' to a certain percentage off the top for the work' if being executor though I have never known anyone who took it. Otherwise I'm not sure it could be done as the other brother could sue for the will not being distributed as directed. However from what the op says there won't be enough left for that. I just thinks it rotten for your oatents to expect you to do it afterwards. If they want to do it then put it in the will and stop playing games to pit your children against each other Ah, I didn't know. I don't know who the executor was when my grandma died. But I remember my aunt doing a bunch of extra work (I think she was really the only one who went through the house and got it ready for sale) and she wouldn't take money that she was owed for what she did. My dad gave her a portion of his share to cover her expenses. As far as I know it was all very civilized. I'm an only child and my daughter is an only child - so won't be facing these kinds of issues. |
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I've had enough already and can't wait until it's totally done. It's past the point of ridiculous.