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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 18:14:49 GMT
UPDATE: Had the opportunity to talk with daughter and her partner last night for a bit, by phone. There came a good moment to ask a few of the things I initially mentioned here. The good news is that they HAVE talked about it. They know what they need to to do and that they're going to need to take over certain expenses at some point between now and when they're married, or shortly thereafter. So we had a good conversation and I now have some information. I also learned the wedding is likely to be in Sept 2016. So there you go. ******************************************************* So my nearly 21 year old daughter announced 2 weeks ago that she and her partner are engaged. Their plan is to marry around the time she graduates from college next year (May-June 2016). I'm happy for them to a point. I think they're rushing to do this and that concerns me. They've been together for a little over 2 years. She will be 22 and her partner will be 24. Neither of them will have much in the way of financial stability by spring of next year. They're both either currently a social worker (in the classic sense) or will be a social worker (minus certification) by the planned wedding date. My daughter's plan is to go on to get her Masters. We are paying the bulk of her undergraduate work and will not be helping with the Masters. I'm sure they've looked at things from a financial viewpoint but I'm wondering if they really understand everything they should. Heck, I'm not even sure I do. These though are some things I do know will have a financial impact: - Healthcare coverage: I currently carry her on my plan. Pretty sure once she's married I can no longer do so. I'm sure she's not considering the impact of no dental or vision coverage either (she wears contacts/glasses).
- Car Insurance: Again, married and living in another state?
- Cell Phone: While this is one I could cover (no legal issues), I'm of the mind that they need to be responsible for all of expenses. My husband might fight me on this one.
- Car maintenance: She has use of our 2002 Honda minivan. It's got 200K+ miles and we just sunk $1K in repairs. She also just damaged the bumper which won't be fixed. While she's supposed to take care of the regular maintenance stuff, it hasn't happened. It's not going to last forever, so she could be looking at needing a car in the next 18-24 months. Her partner's car situation is equally precarious: older vehicle, lots of miles, lots of repairs in the time she's had it (12+ months). Costly repairs that I don't think they'll be able to afford.
What else is there? And how do I present this to them without making it sound like I'm being a Negative Nelly about the the whole idea of getting married? They plan to foot the bill for the majority of the wedding (though we do plan to give them money toward it, just not pay for it outright though), I really don't see where THAT money is going to come from.
In the end, its her life and I have long since stepped back to let her live it with the exception of when it's directly related to me in some way. But I also don't want to let her walk away without some idea of the impact of the situation she's moving toward.
So let me have it Refupeas!
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on Jan 22, 2015 18:29:09 GMT
One of them needs to work where insurance is provided for the employee and purchased for the spouse. They should plan on 1 new vehicle and maintaining the best of the 2 they have now. Will your DD be working while pursuing the Masters? Were you planning on helping financially before she announced her plan to marry? Maybe they will need to economize on their apartment and social spending but youthful marriages aren't doomed.
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quiltz
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Post by quiltz on Jan 22, 2015 18:33:23 GMT
If you are old enough to get married, then you are old enough to look after yourself. This includes money for your housing, food, cellphone, health insurance and education and all social events.
You & your future spouse to make a budget and make appropriate decisions based on what you can afford.
My parents paid for my wedding and I paid for 1/2 of my son's wedding (2004). It would be great if you and the groom's parents could cover most of the wedding costs. A fun & meaningful wedding doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Again, acknowledge the priorities (great flowers or great food or glamour dress or location) and set a budget and stay within the budget.
Good luck |
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Post by bearmom on Jan 22, 2015 18:36:33 GMT
Sounds pretty much like dh and I when we got married.
We planned our wedding for three months after my graduation. Dh got a (professional) job two months before our wedding and I worked at the Hallmark store. My car was deemed not road worthy and Dh's car needed a new engine so we ended up with one car for about 6 months. We both had a large amount of student debt. And we paid for most of our wedding.
It was rough, but we managed. I remember at one point a hammer broke and we had a discussion about whether to replace it or not.
No one discussed finances with us. I think we both had the expectation that once we were out of college it was on us to make it work. We did live with Dh's parents for a month while dh and I looked for jobs though.....
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Post by myshelly on Jan 22, 2015 18:36:39 GMT
Why do you say they're rushing?
They've been together 2 years and it's another year to the wedding?
Sounds like the opposite of rushing to me.
Here's the thing. Young married couples are supposed to be poor. They're just starting out. Of course they'll struggle.
They're supposed to.
You are looking at their financial situation from your middle aged, comfortable, finished raising my kids view point. Of course their situation looks precarious to you!
If you can continue to help her with the cell phone and car, why wouldn't you? Of course you are not obligated to, but why does her marital status affect your desire to? That just seems bizarre to me.
Just be happy and supportive. Say nothing about your financial concerns. Voicing these opinions will not lead to anything good.
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Post by pretzels on Jan 22, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
My DH and I were pretty poor when we got married, too. I was the main breadwinner, working as a journalist (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA). He was working on a second degree and also waited tables/tended bar. His parents paid for his second degree, and his car was paid for. I carried medical insurance on the both of us. We had our apartment rent, utilities, my car note and car insurance. We look back now and wonder how in the hell we made it, but somehow, we did!
I would not mention any of this to her. It's just going to make her want to prove you wrong, even if in the next year, she starts having doubts about the marriage, YKWIM?
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Kerri W
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Post by Kerri W on Jan 22, 2015 18:44:04 GMT
One of my DDs is married and will remain on our insurance until she is 26 and no longer allowed to be on our policy. We pay less than $100 a month for our entire family to be on DH insurance and her policy through her employer would cost her $800-1000 out of pocket. Taking her off our policy would not result in our cost going down at all AND her employer pays her $175 cash/mo for not using their ins. Similar story with her DH. It would be silly for them not to take advantage of the savings.
Are the items on your list things that you have decided you will stop paying *because* she is married? Or would you have stopped paying them once she attained her bachelor's degree?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 18:47:44 GMT
I never knew anyone who married relatively young who didn't struggle financially. With the state of the economy over the past 10+ years, I wouldn't expect anyone just starting out to be financially secure. Unless they were wealthy, trust-fund babies to begin with.
Are you sure the reasons you're concerned about the marriage are financial?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jan 22, 2015 18:54:27 GMT
Do you regularly discuss financial and budgetary items with her now? I think as a parent we have an obligation to at least educate our kids on how much things cost. I strongly urge you to not present this as - hey look at how expensive it will be when you're married. It will come off as you being against the marriage and will probably open a whole new can of worms on your relationship. If she's one of those young adults who are totally clueless about the cost of things. I would start that education. I do think too many parents pay for their young adult's expenses and then are surprised that they had no idea car insurance or contacts are so expensive. This is one area where I think having working class parents helped me prepare for real life tremendously. I paid for my car expenses in high school, I paid for my "calling card" (yes I'm old enough that there were no cell phones and i needed a phone card to call my friends long distance) in college. When I graduated from college I had a general idea about housing costs and whether the jobs I was considering offered benefits etc. I think it's beneficial to have those discussions with your college daughter whether she's engaged or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 18:55:04 GMT
If you are old enough to get married, then you are old enough to look after yourself. This includes money for your housing, food, cellphone, health insurance and education and all social events.
You & your future spouse to make a budget and make appropriate decisions based on what you can afford. That right there. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Jan 22, 2015 18:56:19 GMT
When I was first married, both my ex and I both were still in college, me as an undergraduate (late bloomer-I was working and paying for school myself so it was slow going) and my ex did a dual graduate/professional degree. The thing that I find slightly problematic with the discussion you want to have is that at your daughter's age, she will likely be resentful of you trying to point out the flaws in their plan. Most young people when they first marry aren't completely aware of all the financial finer points-that is something you learn as you go. You are looking at it as an adult who has already been there and sees what *can* go wrong, and like any young person, she is looking at it from her perspective of rose colored glasses joy. I would let this one go and let her and her fiance sort it out on their own-like most of us did.  |
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Post by hennybutton on Jan 22, 2015 18:56:35 GMT
I don't think they're rushing it. They've been together for 2 years and it will be another 1-1/2 years before they get married. They're waiting until after they graduate. It sounds like they're being very level-headed and doing things in the right order. Like every young couple, they'll figure things out. Is your daughter working now? Is she living in an apartment? Is she writing the checks or are you? If you're still making the payments for her housing, etc., I recommend sitting down with her and figuring out her expenses for housing, food, school, and books. Transfer a set amount into her bank account monthly and let her make all the payments. Discuss budgeting and saving for irregular payments like tuition and books with her and let her handle it. Let her know now how much you plan to contribute to the wedding. When the time comes, give her the money and let her budget for the wedding as she sees fit. Remember though, if you have a lot of people that you expect her to invite to the wedding, she's going to need more. Don't expect her to invite people she barely knows unless you're willing to kick in for them.
All of these steps will help her learn how to manage money and to be more frugal going forward.
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Post by redshoes on Jan 22, 2015 18:58:36 GMT
I wouldn't say a word, except to the extent you stop her insurance coverage and paying bills for her...give her heads up on when that will end so she can plan accordingly. If she asks you what you think about all of it, then you can voice "have you thought about this?", but if she doesn't ask, i wouldn't say anything. She's an adult and needs to figure it out with her SO.
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Post by ntsf on Jan 22, 2015 19:05:48 GMT
personally, I would keep her on health insurance if you can..otherwise.they can look at state insurance. marital status has no effect on keeping your child on insurance...it is based on age alone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 19:06:56 GMT
Some points for clarification:
* I am happy to continue paying for those things that legally we can. I was not aware we could continue to have her on our insurance plan despite her being married, for instance. If that is truly the case, then she will remain.
* She will have to work while getting her Masters. What if her employer provides insurance? Won't my company's insurance, as is the case with my spouse, insist on her employer being the primary insurance coverage? Again, if it works...so be it.
* The plan was she would start taking on more responsibility for her financial things (cell phone, insurance, car maintenance/repairs) upon graduation. This is not new simply because she has plans to marry.
* She was made aware that when the van died...that was it. She would need to find a way to purchase her own vehicle at that point.
* The wedding: as there are two brides in this wedding, we do have the benefit that we aren't 100% on the hook as the bride's parents to foot the bill. We cannot afford to pay for a full blown wedding at this time. We have another child who will be going off to college in 2016. We've supported her 100% during her college years. We are paying for 90% of her college tuition at a private college. And we will be paying back loans starting in 2016. There simply isn't going to be money to foot the bill for a full blown wedding. Thankfully, they are well aware of that fact. We will HELP pay for the wedding but it will be a limited amount. That's just the reality of the wedding happening during this time frame. The other bride's family is even less financially able to pay for a wedding.
* This is the "kid" who complains about not having grocery money on FB one day and telling me she's looking to buy a $200 tablet the next. So you can possibly understand why I am concerned they may not be thinking through some of the things they should be.
* It will be us (my dh and I) that they will turn to for help should they need.
* I don't want any of us to be blindsided by a financially impactful issue because we hadn't thought these things through beforehand.
* I am not a helicopter mom, never have been. I have no plans to interfere or intervene. I'm 150% supportive and will continue to be so. I understand I can't fix things nor make things work for them. That's not my job and I don't intend to try and and make it mine.
I would so love it if we were financially able to support them for as long as they need it. That's just not reality though.
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iowgirl
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Post by iowgirl on Jan 22, 2015 19:12:24 GMT
I would certainly mention the cost of health care and what you won't be paying for anymore. When people find out they could be paying 10K a year for just health insurance - glup ... that's a big deal!
I think younger people often do not have a clue how much this can cost. Or if they are able to get it through an employer ... how much it STILL costs.
A reality check for them might be a good thing - regardless of the upcoming wedding plans. Just for them to have their ducks in a row.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 19:12:49 GMT
Do you regularly discuss financial and budgetary items with her now? I think as a parent we have an obligation to at least educate our kids on how much things cost. I strongly urge you to not present this as - hey look at how expensive it will be when you're married. It will come off as you being against the marriage and will probably open a whole new can of worms on your relationship. If she's one of those young adults who are totally clueless about the cost of things. I would start that education. I do think too many parents pay for their young adult's expenses and then are surprised that they had no idea car insurance or contacts are so expensive. This is one area where I think having working class parents helped me prepare for real life tremendously. I paid for my car expenses in high school, I paid for my "calling card" (yes I'm old enough that there were no cell phones and i needed a phone card to call my friends long distance) in college. When I graduated from college I had a general idea about housing costs and whether the jobs I was considering offered benefits etc. I think it's beneficial to have those discussions with your college daughter whether she's engaged or not. She has a general understanding of costs. While we have paid for everything, we have had these conversations. For instance, she knows it cost us $1K for the recent repairs to the van. She recently dropped her cell phone in the toilet, which was just purchased under a year ago, so no renewal and I can't afford to pay $$$$ to replace it. So she's using my old iPhone 4. Still, I've witnessed how sometimes things don't "connect" all the time. I know too, from my own experiences, that we sometimes forget to look at the full picture in order to really understand the financial implications. Example: when buying a new car...looking to see how much the insurance will be compared to your current vehicle before signing on the dotted line. We've been bitten hard by that mistake a time or two. My last purchase was highly determined by the difference in the insurance premiums between the vehicles I was looking at. *IF* I move forward and approach them about these things, it would be in a way that is TOTALLY supportive and in the vein of wanting to be proactive. Thankfully, we have a very good relationship and we can talk pretty frankly with each other. We are very lucky that way. |
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iowgirl
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Post by iowgirl on Jan 22, 2015 19:13:15 GMT
Wow -I had no idea!
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loco coco
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Post by loco coco on Jan 22, 2015 19:23:24 GMT
hmmm, thats tough. I think thats pretty young and any young "normal" person that age would be struggling financially. I would probably keep her on insurance bc I would want her to have coverage but she should be paying everything else.
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Kerri W
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Post by Kerri W on Jan 22, 2015 19:31:26 GMT
I understand your feeling of trepidation. When my DD announced they were getting married one year after college I was a little bit nervous. In that "I want everything in the world for my baby" kind of way. Realistically though I know how much I learned and grew from the difficult times in my life. I pray the only thing they have to worry about in their young marriage is where money to pay for the cell phone bill is going to come from, ya know?! It's all part of parenthood and letting go bit by bit...((HUGS))
My word of advice. Be up front and ask what the other family intends to pay for IN THE BEGINNING. Don't assume the bride pays for this, groom pays for this mentality because it isn't necessarily tradition anymore. We assumed and I feel were led to believe our son-in-law's family was going to help with their wedding. Four weeks beforehand DH and I finally sat down with SIL parents (after three cancelled appointments) and offered to pay for the whole wedding because they hadn't offered anything and basically told their son at the last minute that they were going to let us pay for the wedding and they would give them cash for a down payment on a house if/when the time comes. Learn from our mistake and spell it all out early.
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Peamac
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Post by Peamac on Jan 22, 2015 19:39:12 GMT
This is pretty much DD#2. She finished her associate's in december and has a job in her field, but it is low-paying. She's living with my parents (who only charge her about $75/month for food, no rent/utilities, etc) right now, to be near her fiance while he's still in school. She will be paying a little every month for car insurance, phone, etc. Her fiance shouldn't have any school debt and he works part-time during school, full-time during summer and winter breaks. He wants to go to law school after they get married.
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Post by moveablefeast on Jan 22, 2015 19:45:10 GMT
My feeling is... and I could be wrong... that all the reasoning in the world about timing/finances isn't going to be the thing to change their minds. You have so many reasonable things to say but they may or may not be in a place to hear it.
So my advice is.. figure out what you can so logistically and what you feel good about doing. Tell them plainly what you can do.
Then the rest is on them. I learned a lot in the school of hard knocks and they will, too. That's okay. You do your best and the rest is on them, as adults making an adult decision.
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perumbula
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Post by perumbula on Jan 22, 2015 19:46:34 GMT
Young married couples are poor. It's actually good for them. It teaches you to work together on finances at a time when it's easy to forgive and smooth over disagreements.  I remember how little my husband and I lived on when we first married. I worked as a waitress 20 hours a week while we both went to school and he worked 20 hrs a week minimum wage. We had so little, but we learned to do without and what a true need was. I learned to cook well because we couldn't afford to eat out. we learned to entertain ourselves cheaply. Honestly, when my dd got married my worry wasn't their finances, it all works out eventually after all, but whether I had taught her enough about working out disagreements and learning to be loyal to her partner. |
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Anita
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Post by Anita on Jan 22, 2015 19:47:00 GMT
Congratulate her, tell her how excited you are to welcome her partner into the family. Then sit down and tell her what you can/are willing to keep paying, and let her know what she is responsible for in a matter of fact way. Then help her plan the wedding. Of course they will struggle financially, but sometimes it takes learning the hard way before they get it. It will be hard for you to watch. You will probably want to rescue them. But if you keep rescuing them, they will never get there. Know what I hear all the time from people (myself included)? That those lean first years were the very best ones of the marriage. You're a great mom. |
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Post by Scrapbrat on Jan 22, 2015 19:49:34 GMT
I do not mean this to sound flip at all, but [shrug]. I got married at 21, DH was about the same age, we both had crappy jobs and no health insurance and I was finishing college, too. Neither of our parents were really in a position to help us out at all. I know that we did not think everything through financially, except for stuff like where we would live and things like that. But, we figured it out as we went along. It was fine. They'll figure it out on their own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 20:03:53 GMT
Thanks for all the input everyone! I'd like to further clarify that I have no thoughts of using these concerns as my way of getting them to postpone or not do as they are currently planning. I think I'm just used to uber-planning and trying to figure things out to the nth degree and I'm doing that on their behalf. Which, I know, is not my place...so I thought I'd hash things out here and get some perspective. I know the gang here on this board is especially good at that kind of thing We have give them a $ amount we can afford to give them toward the wedding. What else they spend or from what other sources they get money from is theirs to figure out. If it helps, I've had several conversations about other things. Like expanding on her idea of having Angus (dog in avatar) walk with her partner's then 2 yr old niece (flower girl) down the aisle. He, of course, would be wearing a kilt. I thought it would be fun to have the 2 yr old on one of my miniature horses being led by the dog.  She just groaned and said, "ahhhh....no." She also shot down the idea of riding up to/away from the venue in a cart pulled by one or two of the horses. Again, not happening apparently. We've talked about the level of anxiety meds my dh is going to need to consume to get through having his "baby girl" "leave him." We've talked about whether one can find a Scottie themed wedding dress. See, I am thinking about fun things too  |
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johnnysmom
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Post by johnnysmom on Jan 22, 2015 20:29:02 GMT
I do not mean this to sound flip at all, but [shrug]. I got married at 21, DH was about the same age, we both had crappy jobs and no health insurance and I was finishing college, too. Neither of our parents were really in a position to help us out at all. I know that we did not think everything through financially, except for stuff like where we would live and things like that. But, we figured it out as we went along. It was fine. They'll figure it out on their own. This was pretty much us. We were both 22, I was working 2 jobs (FT at a daycare center and PT at a toy store) dh was working full time, not making much, and going to school (with loans, no way we could afford to pay for it at the time). I used the money from my PT job to pay for the rest of the wedding (each of our parents gave us $1k, we paid the rest). Once we were married I stayed at the PT job and used that income for a car payment. We lived together prior to marriage, but neither of our parents supported us financially. I think we borrowed money from his parents once or twice for a car repair or something but otherwise we made it work......not that it was easy, of course. |
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Post by pretzels on Jan 22, 2015 20:36:13 GMT
I thought it was hilarious when we were newlyweds, our parents would invite us to dinner and then there would be this whole little play: Surprise! My MIL had cooked way too much food! Oh, what ever will she do? There is no way she and FIL could eat it all themselves. Here, why don't y'all take the 6 extra steaks and two extra casserole dishes of food that we accidentally made?
We saw right through it, but it was much welcomed!
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Jan 22, 2015 20:39:19 GMT
We've talked about whether one can find a Scottie themed wedding dress. See, I am thinking about fun things too now you know what to do with that 5 yards of scottie flannel. lol. I'd keep her on my insurance but for the rest, cut the apron strings. She's grown up, she can figure it out (I say that lovingly, not mean). It's part of growing up and starting a new family. Isn't that a goal for raising children? To create a human being that's self sustaining and not a burden to society? Welp, she's ready. |
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Post by Sam on Jan 22, 2015 20:40:56 GMT
I thought it was hilarious when we were newlyweds, our parents would invite us to dinner and then there would be this whole little play: Surprise! My MIL had cooked way too much food! Oh, what ever will she do? There is no way she and FIL could eat it all themselves. Here, why don't y'all take the 6 extra steaks and two extra casserole dishes of food that we accidentally made? We saw right through it, but it was much welcomed! That's so sweet, though! And funny!  |
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I remember how little my husband and I lived on when we first married. I worked as a waitress 20 hours a week while we both went to school and he worked 20 hrs a week minimum wage. We had so little, but we learned to do without and what a true need was. I learned to cook well because we couldn't afford to eat out. we learned to entertain ourselves cheaply.
She just groaned and said, "ahhhh....no." She also shot down the idea of riding up to/away from the venue in a cart pulled by one or two of the horses. Again, not happening apparently. We've talked about the level of anxiety meds my dh is going to need to consume to get through having his "baby girl" "leave him." We've talked about whether one can find a Scottie themed wedding dress. See, I am thinking about fun things too 
