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Post by mandolyn9909 on Mar 31, 2015 14:34:09 GMT
I watched the documentary and thought it was really well done. Looking forward to reading the book now, I read Beyond Belief which I thought it was good as well. I also try to be really open about religions but also find this one to be a cult and scarier that jonestown...or at least far more reaching and equally as mind controlling. The level they go to harassing ex members is terrifying and I really hope the wife of the ex member wins her lawsuit. I wish the movie would have went into more details about Katie holmes and Tom Cruises split which I am sure was a result of this religion, Also would have been great if they could have gotten Nicole Kidman for an interview. Between going clear and the Robert Durst documentary HBO has been hitting it out of the park! I think Katie and Nicole want as little to do with any of this as possible. They're harassed enough by paparazzi. You saw what they were doing to the wife of that ex-member! I agree. I imagine they both know a lot about the abuse and mistreatment within the church though. I applaud the brave ex members that are able to come forward and talk about it...hopefully it prevents some people from getting abused and gives them the courage to get out...even if the cost is losing touch with your whole family.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 5:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 15:51:00 GMT
I watched it last night and it was interesting to see the faces of people I've been reading about for years. I've read almost every book on Scientology out there so I was familiar with names like Marty Rathbun etc so hearing their own stories from their own mouths was really compelling. I think, though, that there is so much more they could have gone into. If you read Beyond Belief by Jenna Miscavage-Hill, you'll really be disturbed by how the children in Scientology are treated. Simply horrifying. I was also wondering why they didn't go into the fact that David Miscavige's wife hasn't been seen for 7 years. Even Leah Remini has reported her missing. I wonder if our former Two Peas resident Scientologist will make an appearance on this thread.
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Post by librarylady on Mar 31, 2015 18:14:52 GMT
I read the book about 2 years ago. Seems pretty shocking that people follow that belief. My take away: The major producers/directors etc. belong to Scientology and give the parts to members and that is why some big names are part of the cult.
The members sent to exile on ships was mind boggling....well lots of info in the book boggled my mind.
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Mar 31, 2015 18:36:37 GMT
DH and I are watching tonight (I've not read the replies to this thread yet, but I'm marking my spot). I read Beyond Belief: My Secret Life Inside Scientology and My Harrowing Escape by Jenna Mescavige Hill several years ago and was morbidly fascinated by it - freaky stuff.
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Post by auntkelly on Mar 31, 2015 18:49:01 GMT
I read the New Yorker article, so nothing that was said in the HBO documentary shocked me.
However, it was beyond bizarre to see that Nazi-like stage and those grown men dressed in those fake Naval uniforms. Tom Cruise looked beyond ridiculous wearing that creepy huge medal w/ the purple sash and saluting L. Ron Hubbard's portrait.
I have no respect for John Travolta. If you believe Travolta's former Scientology handler (and I do) she and her baby were held against her will. One of Travolta's own employees had to help her escape. I don't care what secrets Scientology knows about Travolta, it is immoral for him not to speak up, even if he thinks this was an isolated incident.
I think Cruise is so deep in this fantasy world, he will never believe that there is anything wrong with Scientology.
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Post by compwalla on Mar 31, 2015 19:08:10 GMT
We got about 1/2 way through before I had to get to bed. We're going to finish watching tonight. Tom Cruise saluting a big creepy portrait of LRH was ... I don't even know how to put it into words. So very weird.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Mar 31, 2015 19:13:15 GMT
I knew that Scientology was a cult, and did some bad stuff. But to see the interviews, and the footage from their conventions really showed just how bad it is. And the people who finally leave, are pretty damn courageous. That poor wife was stalked and harassed.
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Post by 3jaysanc on Mar 31, 2015 19:49:58 GMT
I watched and found myself either in open mouthed disbelief or yelling at the television.
All of this was new to me. The extent of my knowledge on scientology was vaguely hearing about Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Leah Remini's involvement & the weird Dianetics (sp?) commercials I remember seeing as a kid.
There is no easy way to put it: those people are batshit crazy.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 5:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 20:16:07 GMT
I did get to watch it last night, after all. It's crazy what people will go along with. Fighting for a spot to stay in "the hole"? Agreeing to a punishment of cleaning the bathroom with your tongue? What has to be going on in your mind to get to that place?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 20:17:40 GMT
I know people that are scientologists since it's so prevalent here and you would be shocked. They are normal every day people like you and me. I just don't get it.
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Post by lily on Mar 31, 2015 20:18:43 GMT
What kind of 'secrets' could be so horrible that these actors stay in this cult?
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Mar 31, 2015 20:21:19 GMT
I watched it. I got a very definite Nazi vibe. LRH and Miscavage were/are psychopaths.
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smartypants71
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Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on Mar 31, 2015 20:22:29 GMT
What kind of 'secrets' could be so horrible that these actors stay in this cult? I know that Macavage's (sp?) niece has said that they make them write down all of their transgressions. She said that she felt like they would use this later as blackmail later if necessary.
I can only imagine what some people may have confessed to that they don't want out in the open.
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Post by lily on Mar 31, 2015 20:46:37 GMT
Transgressions huh....I still cannot imagine unless they have murdered someone. I just don't get it.
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Post by knit.pea on Mar 31, 2015 20:59:18 GMT
It sounded like the auditing is supposed to be essentially a confession of anything standing in the way of being clear. Guess that could be thoughts, actions, or weird stuff. It looked like there were binders upon binders for members who audit extensively. I would assume a long-time member who has moved up the levels has a multitude of binders full of their bad thoughts/traits.
The lengths to which the " church" goes to quash negative talk about it's people and practices is just unreal.
Looking in, it just makes no sense.
I've said it before, but I truly believe Nicole and now Katie cannot talk about it without there being a huge lawsuit being brought against them. I hope there is a max of years on their silence ... I want to know.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 5:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 21:17:29 GMT
Busypea - Five Days at Memorial! It was unbelievably mesmerizing and totally shocking!!
I just started reading Going Clear.
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M in Carolina
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Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Mar 31, 2015 21:44:22 GMT
I've not cancelled HBO yet just to see 'Going Clear' and the Robert Durst documentaries.
(dh and I have decided to cancel DirectTV and get everything over the internet because of the expense and too much satellite interference from even mild thunderstorms. The aggressive DirectTV salespeople at our local Sam's Club who keep trying to sell us DirectTV every week and keep insisting that there's nothing wrong with our satellite dish aren't helping.)
Peano, what article did you read last night? I've been morbidly interested in the cult of Scientology for a while, and that Scientologist pea's rantings made me even more interested.
I've been in a "Christian" cult and have a minor in psychology, and I'm fascinated in how charismatic people become leaders that can talk members into doing anything they want.
People think that there's no way that a Hitler could regain control of a huge country again, but this type of control happens so gradually that most people don't even realize what's happening--like the frog that gets boiled in the pot.
Sockmonkey, thanks for your reviews on the New Yorker article and your opinion on reading the article first. I hate not knowing a back story, so I'm going to read the article before I watch the documentary.
I agree that the reason why Nicole Kidman and Katie Holmes have not spoken about Scientology is because they legally can't or are being blackmailed. That's the only reason that makes sense when your own children are members of that cult. I know the media tried to make it seem like Nicole abandoned her adopted kids with Tom Cruise, but I think that the truth is much more horrible, like they've threatened that something awful would happen to the kids if Nicole didn't keep her mouth shut.
I'm very glad that Katie Holmes said enough. She must have something really incriminating on Tom to get full custody like she did. I think he played her, but when she saw the truth, she outsmarted him.
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Post by finsup on Mar 31, 2015 22:29:40 GMT
Aren't cult leaders supposed to be charismatic? LRH just seemed completely creepy and weird to me. (That's the first time I've ever seen footage of him speaking.) Shudder.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 5:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 22:48:32 GMT
I know people that are scientologists since it's so prevalent here and you would be shocked. They are normal every day people like you and me. I just don't get it. From what I've read over the years and the HBO documentary confirms, I wonder how much of the everyday "rank and file" even know about the inner workings. The abuses and craziness seem to happen once members are deeply entrenched in one of the "orgs" or at a high level on the "bridge."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 22:49:53 GMT
Aren't cult leaders supposed to be charismatic? LRH just seemed completely creepy and weird to me. (That's the first time I've ever seen footage of him speaking.) Shudder. I think that was the most interesting part that hasn't really come across in print media is hearing LRH speak and see their ceremonies. I agree that he was super creepy and I didn't find him at all charismatic.
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Post by SockMonkey on Mar 31, 2015 22:55:06 GMT
Aren't cult leaders supposed to be charismatic? LRH just seemed completely creepy and weird to me. (That's the first time I've ever seen footage of him speaking.) Shudder. I think that was the most interesting part that hasn't really come across in print media is hearing LRH speak and see their ceremonies. I agree that he was super creepy and I didn't find him at all charismatic. The footage from the conventions with all the weird saluting and stuff...chilling. And, "The Freedom Medal of Valor?" That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard of. Tom Cruise must be completely insane, completely stupid, or both. Or maybe it's just his massive ego? I don't know, but he got da cray.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 23:14:20 GMT
I know people that are scientologists since it's so prevalent here and you would be shocked. They are normal every day people like you and me. I just don't get it. From what I've read over the years and the HBO documentary confirms, I wonder how much of the everyday "rank and file" even know about the inner workings. The abuses and craziness seem to happen once members are deeply entrenched in one of the "orgs" or at a high level on the "bridge." That's very true but we actually know a couple that just attested to like the second highest level. You would have no clue. Amazing to me to think how much money they have spent on this garbage.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Apr 1, 2015 1:00:22 GMT
Anyone else fixated on LRH's teeth? Honestly, I wanted to vomit they were so gross.
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Post by cme37 on Apr 1, 2015 3:25:08 GMT
I just watched this tonight. I had read an article in Vanity Fair (I think it was VF) about the whole girlfriend for Tom Cruise ordeal. They were horrible to her. I have also seen the entire creepy video with turtleneck Tom from the convention. He came across as a complete loon in that video.
And I also think Katie Holmes has something big on Tom Cruise and Scientology to get away like she did with full custody. He seems to have very minimal contact with Suri. She has to know things about the "church" since Tom and Miscavige are so close. She was a very smart woman to get away with no repercussions; that we know of anyways.
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Post by bothmykidsrbrats on Apr 1, 2015 3:44:19 GMT
I am on the fence about watching it. I don't know much about "the church", other than the celebrity stuff you hear on TV. DH new company president it a loud and proud member. He has a picture of L. Ron Hubbard on his office wall, and and picture of him and Tom Cruise on his desk. No pictures of his wife or kids. I haven't met him yet. I'm not sure I want to watch the documentary, and then try and hide my WTF face, when I meet him at the company picnic next month. I decided to watch it this afternoon. I may have to resort to Botox to hide my WTF face at the picnic. DH is watching it now.
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Peamac
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Post by Peamac on Apr 1, 2015 4:17:45 GMT
@scrappower- You must be in St. Pete/Clearwater! My sister lived there for 15+ years and once there was a college age kid she knew who had recently left Scientology. He went missing for a few days, and they were worried that he'd been nabbed by Scientologists. Police were called, etc- he was found and was alright, but they were really worried about him for a while.
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Jili
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Post by Jili on Apr 1, 2015 4:28:21 GMT
I just watched this tonight. I had read an article in Vanity Fair (I think it was VF) about the whole girlfriend for Tom Cruise ordeal. They were horrible to her. I have also seen the entire creepy video with turtleneck Tom from the convention. He came across as a complete loon in that video. And I also think Katie Holmes has something big on Tom Cruise and Scientology to get away like she did with full custody. He seems to have very minimal contact with Suri. She has to know things about the "church" since Tom and Miscavige are so close. She was a very smart woman to get away with no repercussions; that we know of anyways. I need to see this movie and maybe read this book. I also read that article in Vanity Fair. Really interesting and truly creepy. I also read an article somewhere (can't remember the source) that discussed the Scientology compound in SoCal. It showed a picture of the spiked fence around the compound. It is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. Our prisons don't have fences like that. That kind of fence isn't designed to keep people out-- it's designed to keep people in. About Katie Holmes- I think I remember reading (and I believe it was in VF, but I could be wrong) that a huge factor in her ability to separate fairly cleanly from Tom is that fact that her father is a divorce attorney who saw the writing on the wall and made sure that she had a very good prenup agreement going into her marriage. I've wondered, however, if Nicole and Katie don't speak out because of their fear of repercussions. Or it may be in their divorce agreements that they can't speak publicly about the church.
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calipea
Shy Member
I like Netherland dwarfs. 🐰
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Aug 28, 2014 23:13:11 GMT
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Post by calipea on Apr 1, 2015 5:31:35 GMT
Who's creepier? Cruise or Muscavige (Scientology boss)? This documentary may bring them down because their mrmbership has dropped so drastically. Twitter is still blowing up with negative comments about this cult. They can't fight the bad PR.
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oaksong
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Post by oaksong on Apr 1, 2015 6:13:05 GMT
Even though I've known about Scientology for a long time, this documentary was a real eye opener. It's the very definition of cult. Their tactics are the precise methods that charismatic sociopaths use to control and abuse others on a scale large or small. It was fascinating to see how the system was set up from the very beginning to do just that.
The entire "religion" (insert eye roll) would be laughable if it weren't for the real people and children who are being brainwashed, imprisoned and even tortured. I can see how Tom Cruise and John Travolta became enamored at similar stages in their young careers. From now on I will only see both of them as pathetic and delusional.
HBO did a great job of telling the story in a way that would not subject them to the obnoxious, never ending lawsuits that Scientology is known for. They told a powerful truth.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
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Post by peabay on Apr 1, 2015 11:37:08 GMT
I am on the fence about watching it. I don't know much about "the church", other than the celebrity stuff you hear on TV. DH new company president it a loud and proud member. He has a picture of L. Ron Hubbard on his office wall, and and picture of him and Tom Cruise on his desk. No pictures of his wife or kids. I haven't met him yet. I'm not sure I want to watch the documentary, and then try and hide my WTF face, when I meet him at the company picnic next month. I think you should watch it, just so you know what's up. What if this guy tries to recruit your husband? That was my first thought. Do not be surprised if that happens.
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