schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Apr 1, 2015 12:10:47 GMT
We watched last night. I think what struck me the most was how difficult it must've been and how much courage it must take for those who've come out against Scientology to lay bare all of their shame to expose the "church".
Another thought I could not get out of my head is that laws "protecting religious freedom" (ahem, Indiana) allow the kind of rampant abuse that occurrs within Scientology to go unpunished.
Anyone have links to the New Yorker/Vanity Fair articles?
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Post by SockMonkey on Apr 1, 2015 12:44:54 GMT
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Post by SockMonkey on Apr 1, 2015 12:45:55 GMT
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Apr 1, 2015 13:52:33 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 3:44:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 16:54:24 GMT
I'd read the New Yorker article, but not the Vanity Fair one.
I've always thought Tom Cruise was a little off, but he's worse than I ever suspected. I'm glad Katie was able to get out with Suri and be free of him and his religion.
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Post by myshelly on Apr 22, 2015 3:25:01 GMT
Bump
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Post by mzza111 on Apr 22, 2015 3:44:44 GMT
What kind of 'secrets' could be so horrible that these actors stay in this cult? Honestly, my first thought was pedophelia. My second thought was, what are these people lacking, mentally/emotionally, that they are sucked into this big pile of bullshit!
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Post by JBeans on Apr 22, 2015 4:02:13 GMT
Even though Going Clear documentary isn't available in Canada (that I know of), it did get uploaded to you tube one night and was lucky enough to catch it. The book isn't being printed in Canada, but I'm lucky enough that family picked it up for me on their last trip to the States.
Anyhow, I knew about the stories before. Our old 2 peas scientologist and a weird run in at the Scientology org in NYC began my fascination with them and their oddities.
I'm horrified how they obtained their tax free religious status and how you as a tax payer subsidizes the atrocities.
But it's funny, I started thinking about our old friend the resident 2 peas scientologist. Seeing going clear, I get how he's sucked in by his "wins" and how as he continues, Scientology conditions members. Suck them in initially with basic self help techniques that work. Slowly teach the "victim" learn to shield and insulate themselves from criticism and "disconnect" from any possibility that will happen. And if they can't silence the criticism, don't listen, just attack until they are destroyed. It's conditioning and brainwashing.
And as for the wife who has the hubby with the scientologist boss....what did your hubby think of the documentary? Now I have to know!
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Post by myshelly on Apr 22, 2015 4:06:56 GMT
How interesting that neither the book or movie are available in Canada,
Do you know why?
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Post by JBeans on Apr 22, 2015 4:37:59 GMT
How interesting that neither the book or movie are available in Canada, Do you know why? The publisher of the book decided not to print an edition in Canada as a precaution. As you know, Scientology is extremely litigious. Our laws make it easier for people to win slander suits than in the US. I haven't got the book in my hands yet, I'm just waiting for my family to come visit and deliver the goods. As for HBO, we have the channel, but we don't subscribe, so I can't be sure that HBO Canada hasn't aired it here. But it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't air it. I'm just happy I caught the you tube upload and decided I'd better watch it at that time or I'd miss it.
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Post by blondiec47 on Apr 22, 2015 10:46:41 GMT
I watched and was horrified. I remember when I was in my early 20's I came across Dianetics and I was telling my mom about it, she flipped out and forbid me to read it. I had never seen her so freaked so I dropped it (at that point in my life I could have easily been sucked in, heck I almost did the EST training--paid but then backed out). She got the biggest hug at Easter.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Apr 22, 2015 15:32:02 GMT
What struck me and stayed in my mind the most out of that documentary was hearing the weird enunciation and cadence in Hubbard's speech. I've read plenty about Scientology and what the former members have gone through. Nothing I read could effectively describe Hubbard's speech and demeanor. It was chilling and oddly mesmerizing because it was so affected. I thought he must be joking, but no, he was dead serious and that made it all the more twisted.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,539
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Apr 22, 2015 16:47:58 GMT
What was most interesting to me was how the IRS caved and declared Scientology to be a religion.
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SweetieBsMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,612
Jun 25, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Apr 22, 2015 16:50:32 GMT
I just watched this tonight. I had read an article in Vanity Fair (I think it was VF) about the whole girlfriend for Tom Cruise ordeal. They were horrible to her. I have also seen the entire creepy video with turtleneck Tom from the convention. He came across as a complete loon in that video. And I also think Katie Holmes has something big on Tom Cruise and Scientology to get away like she did with full custody. He seems to have very minimal contact with Suri. She has to know things about the "church" since Tom and Miscavige are so close. She was a very smart woman to get away with no repercussions; that we know of anyways. I think her father is an attorney so she was well protected legally. However, I do think that she knows "something" because they have left her and her daughter alone for the most part.
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Post by anonrefugee on Apr 22, 2015 16:59:05 GMT
I watched and was horrified. I remember when I was in my early 20's I came across Dianetics and I was telling my mom about it, she flipped out and forbid me to read it. I had never seen her so freaked so I dropped it (at that point in my life I could have easily been sucked in, heck I almost did the EST training--paid but then backed out). She got the biggest hug at Easter. I was approached by a group when I was in my 20's!! They seemed interesting, lucky for me I was working like a dog and already had a group of relocated friends I barely had time to see. It would have been easy to get sucked in being new in a big city. I remember them being positive and charming. I dvr'd during an HBO free weekend, but haven't watched. It is so long... I need to start scrapbooking again so I can do something semi-mindless at the same time. (NOT a slam about scrapping, don't flame me)
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,539
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Apr 22, 2015 17:01:16 GMT
I have no respect for John Travolta. If you believe Travolta's former Scientology handler (and I do) she and her baby were held against her will. One of Travolta's own employees had to help her escape. I don't care what secrets Scientology knows about Travolta, it is immoral for him not to speak up, even if he thinks this was an isolated incident. The documentary made it clear that through the "auditing" process, everything is written down, so that Scientology has all this dirt on people, including celebrities. Celebrity "auditing" is even video and audio recorded, but it mentioned that Tom Cruise objected to that and was told he wouldn't be recorded, but he actually was. John Travolta's handler, Spanky Taylor, worked for Mike Rowe and here is what Mike Rowe wrote about her: linkOn Sunday night Mike Rowe, the former Dirty Jobs host and current star of CNN’s Somebody’s Gotta Do It, used his Facebook page to vent over the treatment of Spanky Taylor that’s described in Alex Gibney’s documentary about Scientology, Going Clear. Spanky was one of eight former Church of Scientology members who appeared in the film to talk about how they got into the church but later broke away, and Spanky’s story about being assigned to the Sea Org’s prison detail and having to save her young child from a filthy group nursery is one of the most shocking parts of the movie.
“Going Clear made me angry,” Rowe wrote after explaining that he employed Spanky and knew her story, but was still stunned by what he saw in the movie. “And if you’re offended by bullies and opportunists who take advantage of people at their most vulnerable, and an IRS that seems both craven and manipulable, it’ll make you angry too.”As we explained in a piece about Spanky that appeared a few days before Going Clear first aired on HBO on March 29, she has spent decades working with famous clients, helping them manage their interactions with fans. But she never discloses who her clients are, and we didn’t know she’s done work for Rowe.
Rowe explained that he’s already familiar with what she’d been through, but what infuriated him about the movie was the way it portrayed Scientology bullying the IRS into giving it tax exempt status in 1993, which has enabled the church to amass billions in the years since, tax-free.
“Maybe I’m still a little cranky from the check I just wrote to Uncle Sam,” Rowe said as he made it clear that he doesn’t care what people believe, but that Scientology’s habit of bullying and manipulating people is hard to reconcile with its status as a tax-exempt church. “But mostly, Going Clear made me very proud of my friend, and others like her. It’s a hell of a thing to realize everything you believe is not what you thought it was. And it’s even harder to confess your mistakes to the world and start over. Paul Haggis, a talented and successful screenwriter comes forward, along with a handful of former members and church officials who endured the kind of threats and intimidation that would keep most people silent. Their courage is impressive.”
We called Spanky, who had no idea that Rowe had posted the statement.
“I was really surprised to see this, and grateful to see that he took a position,” she told us. “But it concerns me, because I don’t want him to become a target of the organization. I appreciate that he took time to see the film and was so moved by it. And I agree with him, I think people should sign a petition to take away Scientology’s tax exempt status, and talk to their elected representatives.”
Take a look at his entire statement…
When I was shooting Dirty Jobs, I hired a woman named Spanky Taylor to help me fulfill requests from viewers and fans. If you ever asked for and received from me an autographed photo, or a signed letter for an Eagle Scout, it was Spanky who licked the stamp and got it in the mail, many thousands of times.
Anyway, I just finished watching a documentary on HBO in which Spanky appears. That’s her behind me, on my unnecessarily large TV screen. The documentary is called “Going Clear,” and while it’s not exactly an Easter story, it’s most definitely a tale of resurrection and new life. I’m posting this today because I think everyone who has ever been lied to or deceived should watch it.
Going Clear, among other things, tells the story of Spanky Taylor’s escape from The Church of Scientology. Like all Church employees, Spanky signed a “Billion Year Contract,” and pledged her life to the cause. She was, according to her own account, brainwashed, programmed, and forbidden from leaving the property. When she gave birth, her baby was put in a separate location, so as not to interfere with her Church duties. One day Spanky went to visit her daughter. The baby was malnourished and utterly neglected. She was covered with flies, and her eyes were filled with pus and fused shut. Something finally snapped, and with the help of a friend, Spanky took her child, fled from her captors, and never looked back.
I knew Spanky’s story when I hired her, so when I watched her tale unfold on my unnecessarily large screen, I was not struck by the details of her personal ordeal, or by the incredible stories of other members who broke free and agreed to come forward. In truth, I’m no longer shocked by people who choose to follow a charlatan, or give away all their money, or forsake their friends and family to seek some greater truth, or drink whatever Kool-Aid is being served. The right to make bad decisions is an important part of being free. And to be clear, (as it were,) I don’t begrudge Scientology’s right to exist, or their right to separate a fool from his or her money in whatever legal means possible. Caveat emptor. But beyond all that, the thing that really chaps my ass is the fact that our government has enabled Scientology to grow into the colossus it’s now become.
In 1993, The IRS granted tax-exempt status to Scientology. This ruling not only saved Scientology many millions of dollars, it gave them status as a worldwide religion, and dramatically increased their power to recruit more members, or customers, if you prefer. That changed everything. The financial facts are beyond dispute – Scientology is a multi-billion dollar business that sells a tangible service called “auditing.” They also create “auditors,” for a price. Prior to 1993, an auditing session was no different from a tax-standpoint than a session with a palm-reader, a fortune-teller, a hypnotist, or a Voodoo Priestess. It was a taxable event. That’s no longer the case. Today, The Church of Scientology generates billions of dollars in revenue, and pays no tax at all. Zero.
Maybe I’m still a little cranky from the check I just wrote to Uncle Sam. Hell, maybe I should write a book and turn mikeroweWORKS into a religion. Or, maybe not. Either way, for all sorts of reasons, “Going Clear” made me angry, and if you’re offended by bullies and opportunists who take advantage of people at their most vulnerable, and an IRS that seems both craven and manipulable, it’ll make you angry too. But mostly, “Going Clear” made me very proud of my friend, and others like her. It’s a hell of a thing to realize everything you believe is not what you thought it was. And it’s even harder to confess your mistakes to the world and start over. Paul Haggis, a talented and successful screenwriter comes forward, along with a handful of former members and church officials who endured the kind of threats and intimidation that would keep most people silent. Their courage is impressive.
Going Clear is not a blockbuster. It does have star power though, and more than its share of heroes and villains. Some of whom you’ll certainly recognize. Check it out.
Happy Easter Mike
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,539
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Apr 22, 2015 17:05:23 GMT
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Post by JBeans on Apr 22, 2015 19:36:22 GMT
If I could have any affect on that, I would sign it. The unfortunate thing about this is I believe the petition is due today and short signatures. Last I heard, anyhow. I was thinking about the lady here whose hubby's ceo is a scientologist. I would bet that he likely is an adherent to WISE, which is a Scientology front group that applies scientology "technology" (I use that word loosely) to the workplace. www.wise.org/en_US/index.htmlInfo from xneu.net. Which explains it better www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/13.htmSo yeah, if you have concern that your husband may be approached to join scientology or read Hubbard materials and apply the "tech", the likely answer is yes. Yes, there is definitely a great probability it will happen.
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Post by bothmykidsrbrats on Apr 23, 2015 3:41:16 GMT
Raising my hand to being the wife of the guy that works for the Scientologist. I just saw a notification that someone liked my post in this thread, and realized some of you were looking for an update.
Here is what I know. First, DH was a little freaked out by the movie. He said he wished he wouldn't have watched it, having to work so closely with someone that practices it. A couple of days after it aired, the president did briefly address it. He assured everyone he had no intention of trying to convert anyone, and what they showed in the movie is not the church he knows. He was raised LDS, and his wife and daughters are still members of the church. He was in a motorcycle accident, ended up with a bunch of rods and pins (he has several places on his head where hair doesn't grow, and other visible scars), and got addicted to pain meds and alcohol. Someone introduced him to the CoS, and he's been sober for the last 12 years.
DH has had the chance to talk to people that have either worked with or for this guy, and they all say he never mentions anything about it, but doesn't hide it.
I met him, his wife, and daughters last weekend at the company picnic, and they seem like lovey people. A genuinely happy family. No weirdness at all. We have daughters 11 days apart, and they were like instant BFFs when they were both wearing a t shirt of the same Youtube/ Viner kid. DD said the daughter was just a normal kid, and couldn't figure out why I was questioning her about it.
I really get the feeling he uses the "teachings" for his sobriety, but isn't in deep. I cherry picked my Catholic religion for years, before I bowed out.
I guess we will see.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Apr 23, 2015 13:21:03 GMT
I currently don't have any of the movie channels, but HBO is having a free preview weekend in about two weeks, so I hope that it will still be on demand then. I saw an interview with the author and the interview, in and of itself, was fascinating. He said that the Church of Scientology spent something like $20 million dollars trying to sue him and follow him and generally trying to discredit him. Thanks for mentioning this. I'll be looking for the documentary then too.
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Post by PeachStatePea on Apr 23, 2015 20:35:11 GMT
I get the feeling that Travolta wants out, but can't because of whatever dirt they have on him. Doesn't it seem like if the CofS did make public the stuff they have on Cruise or Travolta or anybody else that they could be sued? Catholic priests can't tell what is told them in the confessional, this seems the same to me. The CofS fought hard to be recognized as a religion, well, that makes them obligated to the same laws as other religions. Private information told to a spiritual advisor is legally protected. If Travolta wanted out and they went public with the dirt on him he could sue for billions and win.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 3:44:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 0:47:14 GMT
Are there actually laws preventing the "church" from saying anything, or just ethical expectations within a religion itself? I thought only doctors and attorneys are bound by laws like that? If it's just ethical, I don't think the CoS has much in the way of ethics.
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Post by hollymolly on Apr 24, 2015 1:22:54 GMT
I get the feeling that Travolta wants out, but can't because of whatever dirt they have on him. Doesn't it seem like if the CofS did make public the stuff they have on Cruise or Travolta or anybody else that they could be sued? Catholic priests can't tell what is told them in the confessional, this seems the same to me. The CofS fought hard to be recognized as a religion, well, that makes them obligated to the same laws as other religions. Private information told to a spiritual advisor is legally protected. If Travolta wanted out and they went public with the dirt on him he could sue for billions and win. If it's serious dirt, and it seems like it might be, then repercussions on the church are irrelevant to the person with the dirt. That's after the fact. Once it's out there, it's out there, and no amount of lawsuits or criminal suits can make people un-know it. Keeping specific personal information private may well be worth more than a billion dollars to Travolta. There are secrets I wouldn't tell even for a billion dollars, and no one would even care about my secrets. They aren't even good secrets, it's just that they're mine.
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Post by blondiec47 on Apr 24, 2015 14:57:57 GMT
I get the feeling that Travolta wants out, but can't because of whatever dirt they have on him. Doesn't it seem like if the CofS did make public the stuff they have on Cruise or Travolta or anybody else that they could be sued? Catholic priests can't tell what is told them in the confessional, this seems the same to me. The CofS fought hard to be recognized as a religion, well, that makes them obligated to the same laws as other religions. Private information told to a spiritual advisor is legally protected. If Travolta wanted out and they went public with the dirt on him he could sue for billions and win. I got this impression as well. Tom Cruise is a lost cause.
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,636
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Apr 24, 2015 17:25:32 GMT
Does anyone know if Cruise's adopted children are members of the CoS, and whether or not they are close to their mom? I never see photos of Nicole Kidman with Connor or Isabella.
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Apr 24, 2015 18:07:40 GMT
im glad this thread was bumped, we watched this a couple of weekends ago and were freaked out to say the least.
So glad Katie and Suri got out before they put a wedge between mom and daughter. It was really sad to see the families that have been torn apart. Im sure Tom has seen it, I wonder what he thinks of it?
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Apr 24, 2015 20:54:46 GMT
Does anyone know if Cruise's adopted children are members of the CoS, and whether or not they are close to their mom? I never see photos of Nicole Kidman with Connor or Isabella. I was just reading an article in vanity Fair about this, and it seems like the kids are being raised in CoS, and their mother is considered a 'suppresive person', and the article implied that they don't want to see her often because they have been brainwashed into thinking she is bad. It is really sad that he would do that to his kids. I can't link but if you Google 'vanity Fair what Katie didn't know' you will find it.
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Post by JBeans on Apr 25, 2015 0:12:53 GMT
Raising my hand to being the wife of the guy that works for the Scientologist. I just saw a notification that someone liked my post in this thread, and realized some of you were looking for an update. Here is what I know. First, DH was a little freaked out by the movie. He said he wished he wouldn't have watched it, having to work so closely with someone that practices it. A couple of days after it aired, the president did briefly address it. He assured everyone he had no intention of trying to convert anyone, and what they showed in the movie is not the church he knows. He was raised LDS, and his wife and daughters are still members of the church. He was in a motorcycle accident, ended up with a bunch of rods and pins (he has several places on his head where hair doesn't grow, and other visible scars), and got addicted to pain meds and alcohol. Someone introduced him to the CoS, and he's been sober for the last 12 years. DH has had the chance to talk to people that have either worked with or for this guy, and they all say he never mentions anything about it, but doesn't hide it. I met him, his wife, and daughters last weekend at the company picnic, and they seem like lovey people. A genuinely happy family. No weirdness at all. We have daughters 11 days apart, and they were like instant BFFs when they were both wearing a t shirt of the same Youtube/ Viner kid. DD said the daughter was just a normal kid, and couldn't figure out why I was questioning her about it. I really get the feeling he uses the "teachings" for his sobriety, but isn't in deep. I cherry picked my Catholic religion for years, before I bowed out. I guess we will see. That is good to hear. I'd still be vigilant.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 3:44:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 0:54:59 GMT
Okay so I finally watched, it was fascinating. We see the Scientologists all the time walking around downtown Clearwater (the peon SeaOrg ones). I actually have a neighbor that both he and his wife are scientologists. Just saw that she attested to OT VII (posted on FB of all places) so they are pretty high up. Totally normal people and you would never ever guess that they are involved in a cult like this. Both well educated and from solid backgrounds. I just don't get it. I really don't. They scare me though how they have bought up so much of the area here. Waiting for them all to just like go nuts some day.
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