Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,984
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Apr 9, 2015 16:15:19 GMT
My kids start the annual standardized testing on Monday. 22.5 hours of testing over the next two weeks, after a month of doing nothing but test prep and dozens of hours of computerized pre-tests to assess how they'll do on the actual tests. And of course these tests actually have nothing to do with THEM but are tests of the teachers and the school district.
I just feel so defeated. My husband and I have always been very committed to public education but if I had to do it over again, I don't think we would have made this choice, at least for elementary school. Last quarter, I think my daughter only had 55 possible points to earn in math because almost all of the math instruction time was spent playing online games to prepare them for the tests. I haven't seen a single science grade this year because they don't test science in her grade.
NCLB, Race to the Top, Common Core... all of these seem good in theory but I don't feel like my daughter is getting the same foundation in how to learn and learning to think critically as my son did just a few years ago. From the outside looking in, it seems like her teacher has much less time and autonomy to actually teach the kids as much as she's now expected to manage and supervise them as they work on the standardized computerized apps, programs and games they need to prepare for the tests. Even the more creative aspects of education like writing are now managed experiences - weekly or bi-weekly seminars where they have to write x# of paragraphs or a poem with x# of stanzas in x amount of time (you know, to prepare for the essay portions of the tests!), to the point where my child who used to sit and fill notebooks writing short stories for fun now chafes at writing anything.
I guess I'm really hoping to hear from teachers about how you feel about all of the changes over the last decade and whether or not you think it's a good thing for education and for learning and whether I'm looking at in in the wrong way.
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Rainbow
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Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
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Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Apr 9, 2015 16:20:49 GMT
I think teaching for the tests is horrible. Back in the day our teachers had such creativity and we had so much fun. Now it just looks like work.
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Post by Merge on Apr 9, 2015 16:27:34 GMT
I don't know anyone in education who thinks this is good for kids. It's all handed down from legislators and corporate reformers, most of whom haven't set foot in a classroom since they graduated.
We've been fortunate that our kids have been in schools that really work to keep the fun in learning and test prep to a minimum. I know many of the schools here all all test prep all the time.
I personally work to change what I can, advocating and agitating for the arts, which are often reduced or cut in favor of test prep and remediation.
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Post by myshelly on Apr 9, 2015 16:28:04 GMT
My husband has been a teacher for 15 years and he's ready to leave the profession. He, a public school teacher (who just won teacher of the year in his district), wants our kids to be homeschooled. That says a lot, IMO.
There are so many things to say about this topic that I don't know where to start.
One thing that frustrates him to no end is that the tests are essentially meaningless bc they don't in any way measure progress. For example, he has a student who came into 3rd grade at a K reading level. DH has put so much time and effort and encouragement into that child this year. That child is now reading at a 2nd grade level. By any sane person's account, that is a success. That child has made 2 years of progress in one year. The child has worked hard and has matured and grown and learned by leaps and bounds. But come test time that child will be counted as a failure and that failure will count against my husband and against the school. How is that helping anyone?
Another thing that has pushed him over the edge to want to leave the profession is the issue of mainstreaming and accommodations. Out if 31 kids in his class this year 22 have some sort of IEP or 504 or special need. That means my husband has to write a lesson plan, then write and change 22 additional lesson plans to modify the lesson according to each child's paperwork. All with no training regarding special needs kids.
The district held training for teaching dyslexic kids last week. Their advice to teachers was "if you teach the key concepts harder the kids will pass the test". That was it. No tips for identifying dyslexia or what to do specifically for those kids.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,984
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Apr 9, 2015 16:39:28 GMT
Our school was like that (or trying at least) until last year when it did poorly on the test. Poorly meaning "inadequate progress." The scores were still as high as they were the year before but the way the system works, if you aren't improving, you're failing. Panic. Mayhem.
Our music and arts program is still very good but I don't know how long that will continue to be the case - for both political and logistical reasons. Arts cost money and they are frivolous so there are plenty of people in this community gunning for those dollars.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 11, 2024 13:35:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 16:54:44 GMT
My son is only in first grade, but I am already dreading the testing. I thought it was way too much 11 years ago when I was still teaching...so I can only imagine how bad it's gotten since.
If my son struggles and the testing makes school miserable for him, I am willing to go back to work so that he can go to a private school.
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Post by anxiousmom on Apr 9, 2015 17:02:18 GMT
I guess I wonder at how...bad? it really is? I hope this comes out the way I mean it to, at least from the prospective of how much the kids are learning in this environment of teaching to the test.
Here is why I say this-I have two kids. One has already graduated, one is still in (public) school. My older son, he is already done with his k-12 education. In the grand scheme, he graduated. He took and got a respectable score on his SAT. He applied to, and was accepted to a well known out of state college.
My younger son, he is attending the same school. He is taking dual enrollment classes and AP classes and has passed those classes. He has taken the SAT and scored very, very well. He is only a junior, so he has not started applying to colleges yet, but based on his GPA and his SAT scores I don't think that he will have trouble being accepted to the school of his choice.
My kids and their friends are the product of the educational system of our county. Our county, which is one of the larger ones in the south. I live in a state that is typically fairly low when it is rated against other states for education, and one of the lower counties in that already low state. Expectations are not really all that high for success based on the numbers.
But, I think there is a two fold answer here. I think the kids are learning more than we think they are. And I think that (and I mean this in a global way) you get out what you put into it. If you (again the global you) are a participative parent, you are going to have children that are more engaged in the educational experience. Those kids are being taught to the test, but at the same time they are learning. And, at least in my limited experience based on what I see with my kids and their friends, they are learning enough to be competitive on a national level (i.e. SAT scores, acceptance to ranked colleges.)
So maybe this gives us hope that the system is quite as broken as we think it is?
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Deleted
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Jun 11, 2024 13:35:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 17:06:22 GMT
I am thankful my youngest is in HS and honestly while we have "benchmarks" and end of class exams, they aren't as bad as the younger grades seem to be getting. I am in favor of "achievement tests" which I remember taking as a child once a year to see where I was at -- but I don't remember those ever being mandatory or counted against teachers/schools.
Truly, if I had a younger child with the right personality, I would consider homeschooling or looking into charter schools for at least the primary/elementary years.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,984
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Apr 9, 2015 17:11:21 GMT
But your son (the one who is a junior) didn't get the same kind of education that kids in elementary school are getting now. It's changed, just in the 3 years since my son was in elementary school. Race to the Top means that big parts of school funding and teacher evaluations are now tied to those test scores in a way they weren't just a couple years ago. Standardized testing week used to be my kids' favorite week of school because it was all about movies and snacks after the tests were done. Now the prep and those tests are the focus of almost everything the whole year long.
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Post by Merge on Apr 9, 2015 17:12:39 GMT
Our school was like that (or trying at least) until last year when it did poorly on the test. Poorly meaning "inadequate progress." The scores were still as high as they were the year before but the way the system works, if you aren't improving, you're failing. Panic. Mayhem. Our music and arts program is still very good but I don't know how long that will continue to be the case - for both political and logistical reasons. Arts cost money and they are frivolous so there are plenty of people in this community gunning for those dollars. Frivolous? Are you saying that or are you reflecting the attitude of the district?
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,984
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Apr 9, 2015 17:16:03 GMT
Come on, you know my kids are creative geeks. (ETA: I say that in the most loving way even as I'm pulling my hair out trying to juggle the various chorus & band practices and concerts over the next 2 months.) I'm parroting the attitude of the average voter here in tea party central. Lovely letter to the editor to that effect in yesterday's paper in fact.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Apr 9, 2015 17:20:01 GMT
Not a teacher, but a parent of children going through the public school system where every thing is teaching to the test.
When you wrote, I just nodded my head. That's exactly how I feel.
It brings on such self loathing that I cannot afford private school for my children.
And getting into a charter school is a joke. My kids have been on the waitlist for years. Almost all the spots are given to siblings of already enrolled students before being opened up to the community.
I even wish I could homeschool, but I work (single mother), and it is not feasible.
There is just no chance to have your children get a truly good education unless you are wealthy.
I feel helpless. I feel ashamed. I feel like I have failed them.
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Post by anxiousmom on Apr 9, 2015 17:22:49 GMT
But your son (the one who is a junior) didn't get the same kind of education that kids in elementary school are getting now. It's changed, just in the 3 years since my son was in elementary school. Race to the Top means that big parts of school funding and teacher evaluations are now tied to those test scores in a way they weren't just a couple years ago. Standardized testing week used to be my kids' favorite week of school because it was all about movies and snacks after the tests were done. Now the prep and those tests are the focus of almost everything the whole year long. You are right, it is different in the years that he went to elementary school. At the same time though, the colleges and universities haven't lowered their standards for admittance, nor has the AP exams, or the SAT. And the high schools still have to take all the dreaded tests, end of year and state mandated ones. So the kids that are coming up are learning enough to get into those schools...? Then again, you very much have a point that maybe things have changed more radically than I realize? I don't know, I think I am just happy that my kids are almost done.
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Post by cyndijane on Apr 9, 2015 17:26:39 GMT
I don't know anyone in education who thinks this is good for kids. Without reading anything else, this was the first thing I thought when I read the OP.
ETA: We homeschool. My oldest DS has autism, and when we were trying to juggle ARD meetings... looking at his teacher last year- and how much she did/had to do, really, because of his IEP... and watching them prepare for the testing already... We had to weigh who our child is against the system he was in, and decided to make the jump. It's not easy, and life will get even more stressful as I'm planning on leaving my job to accomodate homeschooling the younger DS this next fall (so, homeschooling both). My laid-back DH just feels so strongly about it, we had to act. DS1 is predisposed to high anxiety- the emphasis on the tests would just put him over the edge. Completely not worth it.
I'm grateful we have the opportunity to homeschool, I realize not everyone can even if they wanted to.
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Post by shamrock on Apr 9, 2015 17:42:24 GMT
I'm so close to requesting my boys not do the testing. But our district sent out a letter that vaguely threatened to take away services if parents opted out. Both my boys receive speech & one is in the gifted program. The tests cause a lot of stress/anxiety for my boys. They have each had a test completely wiped out by some computer glitch and had to restart WITHOUT being given extra time! My oldest was all upset after the first day of the state writing test. It wasn't anything like they had practiced. I even talked to the teacher. Sure enough they'd been practicing one way for months. But the actual test was different. So perfect example of why teaching to the test is a BAD idea! Sometimes the test isn't done exactly the way the teachers were told.
OP I'm a former teacher, now subbing. I have real reservations about going back to the classroom full time, and the incredible emphasis on testing is a big reservation! I also second guess our decision to use the public school system, or at least the district we chose. I try to remind myself that every form of education has issues, you just have to pick which ones you choose to live with. I don't think DH would ever be onboard with homeschooling. But I certainly lean more that way than I ever thought I would.
Oh and last year was the best-- DS, 4th grade, took state tests in reading, math, writing & science (think writing but maybe not). All that time on 4 different tests. And what happened to those tests & the scores? NOTHING. Thrown out. Not reported to anyone. Talk about months of wasted teaching to a test that wasn't even used. And don't get me started on what they actually use the tests for because I don't see it as a tool to help students!
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Apr 9, 2015 17:47:22 GMT
Sarah*H, as a parent, I agree with everything you wrote. My kids attended LAUSD school K-7 and this school year we moved to Vancouver, BC. The last three years in LAUSD were insane. We are very pro public school so we sent both of our daughters to our local public school. It was a Title 1 school with average performance when we started. In the early years it improve a little, slid back a little, then improved a little. It was a nice school and the kids learned to read and write. Around 2009/2010 things switched into high gear. In retrospect it is a little bit like the parable of the frog in the pot, suddenly we were awash in seemingly monthly assessments and tests. The kids were expected to be advanced in everything and the standardized test subjects were taught relentlessly, especially in the months preceding the test. It made school uninteresting and pressure filled. Each subsequent year, though the kids did well, I felt that they really weren't learning to think. LAUSD decided that it wanted to give each child an iPad. There was little public discourse about the how and why. I have always felt that iPads are great for entertainment, but not particularly for education. LAUSD planned to use Pearson educational software on the iPads and restrict other content. As a parent, we already used the supplemental Pearson software and it was dismal. It was designed to supplement the textbook, but was limited to that you really had to have the textbook. It was not innovative or exciting in any way. Not to mention, the first week of the rollout kids figured out how to circumvent the restrictions. So instead the iPads were rolled out for testing. Keyboards were bought and the kids were expected to take tests using a combination of touch screen and keyboard (without learning to type in school). The test also crashed with regularity and some were set up so that going back and correcting previous answers was difficult. The final straw for me was Common Core. While I agree with the idea, the rollout was a horror. There is no way that the tests were actually developed by trying them out on a sample of actual children. The curriculum and testing during the year were completely independent of the common core tests administered in the spring. The kids were told that the tests did not count, but getting an average of 36% how could it not adversely affect the kids. My 7th grader was a wreck and I suspect the teachers were too. The administration suffered too because the iPads bugs delayed the testing. It was a nightmare. The top echelon seems to have forgotten that they are dealing with actual human beings not widgets. Had we stayed in Los Angeles, I would have opted out testing for a couple of years out of protest or looked at alternative schools. It really was a destructive process. As it happens, we moved to Canada. It is better here. There is less emphasis on this test or that assessment. My kids are getting good grades in everything except PE and the Canadian children are intelligent even without all the testing. ETA: Defeated is a very good word to use to describe the situation. I wrote numerous letters as did other parents, but nothing changed.
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Post by Merge on Apr 9, 2015 17:56:00 GMT
Come on, you know my kids are creative geeks. (ETA: I say that in the most loving way even as I'm pulling my hair out trying to juggle the various chorus & band practices and concerts over the next 2 months.) I'm parroting the attitude of the average voter here in tea party central. Lovely letter to the editor to that effect in yesterday's paper in fact. Sorry, giving you a hard time and forgot the winking smilie.
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Post by utmr on Apr 9, 2015 18:05:55 GMT
I think the testing is insane, of little value, and I would lead the parade if they did away with it. I think the main purpose is to enrich the companies that sell the tests and the test prep materials.
But. My kids public school education is 100x better than what I recieved in the late 70s and early 80s. They attend an urban, traditional high school. It is in an old building with all the typical problems of urban school.
But they offer 10 foreign languages through the 5th year of each. My school offered one year of Spanish, maybe two classes of it.
Next year DD will take AP Calculus and AP statistics. My school offered four years of math- Alg I, Alg II, Geometry and Trigonometry. There was one class of Trig. The year I took it we had to share books because the school only owned 9 books, had only ever had 5 students max and the teacher was overwhelmed by 30 of us.
There was no AP anything. The depth and breadth of what they study is so much better than what we had.
So the testing totally sucks and I hate it. But compared to years ago, public school is so so much better.
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Post by rockymtnpea on Apr 9, 2015 18:58:05 GMT
I would double check but if your child is receiving services it is likely unlawful to withhold services should you opt them out of testing. Contact the nearest Peak Parent in your area.
For those whose children. Experience anxiety due to the testing, or you are simply against the testing opt the child out. In my area it took one phone call to the school and no more testing.
One school here had 47% of the enrollment opt out. It speaks volumes.
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Apr 9, 2015 19:03:17 GMT
I am happy that I could retire when I did. We instituted (on our own). The Act quality core test in addition to state testing ( which us a joke! I taught Bio and the ten questions that had on Bio were supposed to assess our teaching??!!). We looked at the Act QC curriculum and decided we were already doing most of it so we didn't change a thing .... And we did great ! Now the state has changed the state curriculum and the testing again.... And I glad I am out!
And the idea that a school can be the top in the state and fail because they didn't improve enough is real and ridiculous!!
This is what happens when legislatures think they know more than teachers. And truly, for the schools that are failing, I believe it is the family ( or lack of). Not the schools that is the problem. How can a kid learn without support at home, changing schools 3 or 4 times each year, and worse?
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Post by cade387 on Apr 9, 2015 19:40:58 GMT
Did something change with the new testing? Growing up I was always at private schools and we had to take the state standard testing. Is that determined by the state oh who participates?
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Post by nepean on Apr 9, 2015 19:41:33 GMT
I think the testing is insane, of little value, and I would lead the parade if they did away with it. I think the main purpose is to enrich the companies that sell the tests and the test prep materials. But. My kids public school education is 100x better than what I recieved in the late 70s and early 80s. They attend an urban, traditional high school. It is in an old building with all the typical problems of urban school. But they offer 10 foreign languages through the 5th year of each. My school offered one year of Spanish, maybe two classes of it. Next year DD will take AP Calculus and AP statistics. My school offered four years of math- Alg I, Alg II, Geometry and Trigonometry. There was one class of Trig. The year I took it we had to share books because the school only owned 9 books, had only ever had 5 students max and the teacher was overwhelmed by 30 of us. There was no AP anything. The depth and breadth of what they study is so much better than what we had. So the testing totally sucks and I hate it. But compared to years ago, public school is so so much better. I agree with you that in the most part children today have much better academic opportunities. I love that they have so many languages to choose from etc. I know my kids are getting a better education at school than I did. But, it does sound like your kid/s are in high school, and what we now see in elementary school versus what we saw even 5 years ago, is very different. My oldest is in 7th grade and what she did in 1st grade is far different to what her little brother is now doing in 1st grade. Some good changes, some not so good changes.
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Country Ham
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Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Apr 9, 2015 19:47:29 GMT
For example, he has a student who came into 3rd grade at a K reading level. There was also a time that child wouldn't be in third grade if they were only reading at a K level. I wish we could go back to holding kids back if they are not ready to move on as well. They don't need to call it "pass" or "fail" if they don't want to. Wish there was a balance.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,984
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Apr 9, 2015 19:48:42 GMT
Everything changed. When I was growing up, we did the Stanford Tests and the California achievement tests. It was a couple mornings/year. But NCLB ushered in a new era of standardized testing and then (at least in Pennsylvania) the Common Core brought more tests necessary to graduate called Keystones. Then there is also a relatively new federal initiative called Race to the Top which ties the test scores to school funding and teacher performance.
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Post by christine58 on Apr 9, 2015 20:01:30 GMT
Here in the state of NY, our student tests scores are going to determine whether someone has a job or not....many parents are opting out of the tests. That screws us also...it's bad here...our Governor is a BULLY..flat out BULLY. I can't even express how angry he has made 600,00 teachers, parents, administrators etc. Those of us who teach in rural schools where attendance is poor, kids live in poverty etc are SCREWED. Governor Cuomo is in bed with Pearson who designs the tests. UGH..
I am retiring in June of 2016
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Post by cade387 on Apr 9, 2015 20:32:09 GMT
Everything changed. When I was growing up, we did the Stanford Tests and the California achievement tests. It was a couple mornings/year. But NCLB ushered in a new era of standardized testing and then (at least in Pennsylvania) the Common Core brought more tests necessary to graduate called Keystones. Then there is also a relatively new federal initiative called Race to the Top which ties the test scores to school funding and teacher performance. what has made private schools exempt though?
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Post by beachbum on Apr 9, 2015 20:34:01 GMT
How do I feel? Everything you said, and more, is the reason I am now a RETIRED teacher. I will not be a "Stepford" teacher, teaching the same thing the same way on the same day as the teacher next door. TPTB have sucked all the joy out of this profession. Teaching, and learning, used to be fun and creative. Not anymore. I fear for our future, we are going to have a generation of graduates that cannot think for themselves, cannot problem solve, cannot do much more than regurgitate facts for a test. It's sad, and quite frightening. Our students are losing, and Pearson (makers of test materials) is raking in $$$ hand over fist. It's so wrong.
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Post by Legacy Girl on Apr 9, 2015 20:49:12 GMT
Your district is unequivocally wrong on this point. Dyslexic minds learn differently. If the district continues to teach the concepts "harder," the only thing that will happen is that kids and teachers will become frustrated, their self-esteem (closely tied to ability to learn) will plummet, and they will fail. It would be as if someone were to speak to me in Russian. They can speak louder. They can get angry. They can repeat themselves over and over. But if I don't speak Russian, I'm never going to understand what they're saying. Here is some of the best info I have seen on recognizing dyslexia. Every parent and teacher would do well to review this information and keep an eye out for the signs. One in every five children is dyslexic, and the best approach to teaching them is with a multi-sensory, phonics based approach like Orton-Gillingham. Hope this is helpful! Good luck to your DH! Dyslexia Signs
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Deleted
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Jun 11, 2024 13:35:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 20:50:22 GMT
Where to begin? As parent of four children ranging in age from one who will enter kindergarten next year to one who is a freshman in college, I see a vast difference between the education my 19 year-old received and my next child down (8th grade) is receiving, and again from that child to the one who is in fourth grade.
The middle school curriculum was revamped to align with Common Core, which meant the elimination of life skills and tech ed, and a scheduling change in which students need to choose between a fine or performing art instead of having the option to do both. There is also less overall teaching time for science and social studies. This year, the elimination of career day for 8th graders because of time lost to PARRC and snow days/delayed openings--but let's be honest, with two rounds of PARCC, it was really due to the PARCC. The irony to me is that common core is about college & career readiness, right?
In elementary school, projects have been cut to a minimum and again, less time for social studies and science. The math curriculum makes my hair stand on end. (I found it interesting that the one area that hadn't been changed, long division, was the one that my daughter understood the best). A friend with a child in 2nd grade has talked about timed reading comprehension that leaves her daughter coming home at times in tears and feeling as if there is something wrong with her.
And then there is the money, time and resources that have been diverted to standardized testing. Additionally, PARRC testing was a disruption to my children's school year and will be again at the end of April into May.
Yet we are told by the powers-that-be that we need these tests to tell us how districts are doing. It doesn't take a crystal ball to know which students and which districts will do poorly. My district has the resources to purchase technology and curriculum that is common core-aligned. A friend and her colleagues who teach in another district have been left to cobble together what they can from existing materials. None of this addresses underlying factors tied to student achievement.
In terms of the profession, I feel as if it is under attack. Look at what is happening in NY, where Gov Cuomo succeeded in passing education reforms where 50% of teacher evaluations to be based on student performance on standardized tests. NJ is looking to raise standards for prospective teachers, such as requiring a full year of student teachers, yet those same graduates will be in competition with Teach for America teachers who have only completed a five-week summer internship. There is a call to hold teachers to a higher standard yet in fields like medicine and law there is no comparable "alternate route."
ETA This is my opinion as a parent, but also as someone who has a background in elementary and special education. I've also heard frustration from friends who teach that echoes exactly what you are saying. And when I hear veteran teachers I know advising their own children not to enter the field, and friends who teach telling me to "do anything but teach" when I re-enter the workforce, that speaks volumes to me.
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Post by Kymberlee on Apr 9, 2015 20:54:19 GMT
I'm sick about the testing. As a SpEd teacher (I teach the blind), I can't tell you how incredibly unfair these tests our for MY students. Most of them aren't normed for low vision/blind kids and I have to somehow adapt a visual questions and make them accessible for my students. I could go on and on about my heartburn about these &^%$# tests. I spend so much of my time brailling tests that have NO MEANING or educational value for students.
I think all of it is political BS. NCLB, RTTT, CC, call it whatever you want, someone is making BIG $$$ off the backs of our students. That is what infuriates me to no end.
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