|
Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 21, 2015 17:55:09 GMT
I have never heard of a coach not having final say on their roster. I think it's ridiculous to be honest. Here's the reality. 99.999% of coaches want just a couple things: to win, to have necessary parent/volunteer support and kids/parents who are not a giant PITA. Does a subpar kid make the team because his Dad is the coach/assistant coach/biggest fundraiser - every single day. Does the kid make the team because they're an awesome athlete in sport A and the coach is convinced his skills were transition and be a super star player - all the time. Does a decent but not outstanding kid get passed over because their parent is a pain - all the time. Does an awesome player stay on the team even though he's not a team player - yes.
|
|
MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,538
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
|
Post by MerryMom on Apr 21, 2015 18:00:51 GMT
Why is it that cheerleader is basically the only sport that invokes an outside "independent" panel of judges?
In most sports, the coaches evaluate and make the selection.
|
|
|
Post by nurseypants on Apr 21, 2015 18:08:57 GMT
Why is it that cheerleader is basically the only sport that invokes an outside "independent" panel of judges? In most sports, the coaches evaluate and make the selection. Because it's usually a girls' sport. And girls are rarely, if ever, judged solely on their abilities and skills.
|
|
Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,768
Location: Kentucky
Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
|
Post by Kerri W on Apr 21, 2015 18:17:39 GMT
Why is it that cheerleader is basically the only sport that invokes an outside "independent" panel of judges? In most sports, the coaches evaluate and make the selection. Since you are informally quoting me I can explain my comment. By independent I meant three people who were not involved in the cheer program currently. There is a head coach and two assistants. Past judges have been former cheerleaders, a choreographer they worked with, somebody from the gym they take tumbling lessons at, a current college cheerleader, etc. I have never questioned the coach as to WHY she has a panel of judges.
|
|
MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,538
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
|
Post by MerryMom on Apr 21, 2015 18:27:05 GMT
Why is it that cheerleader is basically the only sport that invokes an outside "independent" panel of judges? In most sports, the coaches evaluate and make the selection. Because it's usually a girls' sport. And girls are rarely, if ever, judged solely on their abilities and skills. Being a girl's sport has nothing to do with it. I am 52 years old and I participated in track, softball, and swimming. My swim career was from age 6 to 18 and I even swam at AAU nationals level, I have NEVER had an outside "judge" do the selection for me to be on the team--coaches were the sole decision-makers. I have never been evaluated based on anything else other than my skills, proficiency, distance, accuracy, and speed. I would like to add that I got pulled into being a "judge" at the middle school level for cheerleading. I was in dance for 10 years, and most importantly, I have no daughters and no ties to any girls trying out!!! I and the other judges evaluated each girl fairly using the scoring sheet. Everyone had to do the same cheers, jumps, flips, and dance routine. About 50-60 girls tried out for a roster of 12 with 2 alternates, and I would say that the top 8 are fairly easy to define: clearly are the top scorers in all areas. The next group of probably 7-8 girls were so close in ability, and most had tied scores. We looked to see if any of our individual scores were far apart, did you have someone who was great in jumps and flips, but not so great in cheer and dance. Finally we made our decision for the next 4 to make the squad and the 2 alternates based on who did the best overall. So yes we did have some that weren't the best tumblers, but they scored better overall. It was clear that we made recommendations for the squad. Our decision wasn't the final decision. In the end, the coach and principal okayed our selections. But then the complaints started, parents (moms) accusing the coach of influencing us. That judges had it "out" for someone, etc. etc. What's funny about the OP was that a similar rumor was going around. The score sheets were "shredded", but someone had copies of the score sheets. None of that was true, in fact, if requested, each girl could see her score sheet, but a girl could not view another person's score sheet. We had written comments about what was good and areas to improve. We didn't give them copies of the scores, but they could get a copy of the comments. What was most telling was that the loudest Mom complainers' daughters had NEVER ASKED TO SEE HER SCORE SHEET. In fact, all 3 judges had independently marked down the same person (the girl with the mom who complained the loudest) for the same thing. Each girl was told that they were being evaluated from the second she stepped into the room. So Ms. Thing waltzes into the room all cocky and reeking of attitude, got herself set up to do her routine and then went into cheer mode. All 3 judges marked her down for her entitled demeanor demonstration; she was a good tumbler and good at cheers, but not so good at "leader" part of cheerleader. I learned that lesson the hard way when I was in diving, you're being scored from the time your foot or hand touches the board, not just during the dive and entry. Tempest in a teapot.
|
|
|
Post by nurseypants on Apr 21, 2015 18:44:15 GMT
Mercy me. I stand corrected!!
|
|
|
Post by happymom on Apr 21, 2015 20:56:41 GMT
I don't think we can answer this question without knowing if there are written rules/an official policy in place regarding how the roster is to be created. Did the coach actually break a specific rule or policy or is it just unethical in your opinion? I agree. Our cheerleading tryouts are judged and scored by three independent judges. The final decision on who makes the team is up to the coach. Even if a girl has a great score, the coach takes into account personality, experience, etc to make the best fit for the team. Exactly. Some times there are other things that make a difference. Attitude and grades in school. Are you suggesting teachers and school board members kids make a sport and it is unfair? also, if a coach wants a clean cut team, piercings, tats and wierd hair could lead to them not making a team. That is very subjective and is usually known amongst the kids.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Apr 21, 2015 21:28:31 GMT
Who decided there was something wrong with the process? I still don't understand clearly what happened.
What exactly happened? Timeline? Who made decisions? What sport? (Is teamwork vital?)
From the perspective of anyone not intimately involved in the specific situation, it is impossible to make a judgement. Why all the vagueness?
Bottom line, for me, the coach should have the last say as to who makes the team unless there is a written policy otherwise. That is life, as hard as it is sometimes.
|
|
AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
|
Post by AnotherPea on Apr 21, 2015 21:37:10 GMT
I nor any other parent are assuming anything. There was research done and it was determined based on that that there was wrong doing in the selection process. After meeting with administration on this, it was also confirmed that the selection process was indeed wrong. I said I am not aware of written rules. I do know that it has been confirmed that what was done was wrong in the way it was done.
Eh - depending upon how pansy-a$$ the administration is, the policy may or may not have been followed. You could be being told what you want to hear. This may mean something will change, it may not. I've been around enough administrators to know that some will throw their staff under the bus if parents complain. Then turn around and tell the staff to do what they want anyway. Or, tell the staff to discard their plans and cater to whomever whined the loudest.
I've seen administrators CHANGE policies that they had previously approved, mid-stream, because too many parents whined about their kids.
I'm not sure how anyone can be told they're doing something wrong if there isn't a policy or rule book.
|
|
AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
|
Post by AnotherPea on Apr 21, 2015 21:40:08 GMT
Why is it that cheerleader is basically the only sport that invokes an outside "independent" panel of judges? In most sports, the coaches evaluate and make the selection. Because it's usually a girls' sport. And girls are rarely, if ever, judged solely on their abilities and skills. I disagree completely.
We have several girls' teams at my school. None of the other "sports" require a panel of judges.
|
|
|
Post by christine58 on Apr 21, 2015 21:40:44 GMT
I nor any other parent are assuming anything. There was research done and it was determined based on that that there was wrong doing in the selection process. After meeting with administration on this, it was also confirmed that the selection process was indeed wrong. I said I am not aware of written rules. I do know that it has been confirmed that what was done was wrong in the way it was done. Well, for the love of Pete, why didn't you tell us that when we asked instead of giving vague statements about not knowing what the policy/process is? Threads like this annoy the hell out of me. Significant information is omitted from the OP and then when the thread doesn't go the way the poster expects, additional information is added in dribs and drabs to shore up their case. UGH. I'm with @busypea. What sport are you talking about?? AND if the administration is aware, are you on a witch hunt for this coach's head? ETA: so this is about Cheerleading???
|
|
AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
|
Post by AnotherPea on Apr 21, 2015 21:50:22 GMT
Attitude and grades might have a significant impact too.
A few years ago we had quite the diva on our cheer squad. She was a cheerleader with a capital C. Everything bad teen movie stereotype she filled.
She cheated on a test. That in itself is not enough to get her kicked off the squad. But she (and her mother) were horrible about it all. Insisted that I was framing her because I was jealous of her. I was setting her up. Even with photographic proof they fought, screamed (!) and denied it all the way. Her mother threatened my own child's future (Mom worked at a popular bank in town) and for weeks the cheerleader was a major snot with me. The zero from that one test brought her down to a C but she still had a high enough average to continue cheering.
When tryouts for the next year came around I made my opinion VERY vocal to the coaches. Provided them with my proof of cheating and notes from the meetings. Even though the girl was a co-captain before, she wasn't invited back the following year. She had high scores but it was her attitude that kept her off the team.
|
|
PaperAngel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,312
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
|
Post by PaperAngel on Apr 22, 2015 1:03:29 GMT
Sadly, sports are no different than grades/awards/placements for students (& promotions/honors for teachers/staff) in schools. All are political. For example, a student may be overlooked for an award in favor of the kid who did not meet the requirements, but her mom provides popcorn/pastries in the teachers' lounge every Friday afternoon; a starting position on the volleyball squad may be given to a student who has never played the game outside of her backyard, but her parents own the dance studio where the athletic director's girls are members; the booster club president's son is named football team captain, although another player was voted unanimously by his teammates; a spot in the honors math class is filled by a student with low scores/poor attendance, but her dad is a local tv reporter/anchor; etc.
In my limited experience, school sports are not worth the trouble. I much prefer club/AAU teams because they focus on the sport - learning new skills, teamwork, etc. - & provide a higher level of competition. Hope your child finds a team outside of school & has a great season!
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Apr 22, 2015 1:10:53 GMT
Back in the time when dinosaurs roamed the earth, our cheerleader tryouts involved tryouts, and those judged able were then able to run, in school-wide election, for a position. You did have to have a minimum B GPA, and had to submit paperwork signed by all your teachers with all your current grades. It came to light AFTER the election part of the process and announcement of the new squad, that 4 previous cheerleaders submitted fake grades with forged teacher signatures. The school decided that it wouldn't be fair to take those positions away after they were announced, even though the girls cheated, so everyone who made it to the election stage of the process was a part of the squad that semester, even though it made our squad twice as large as normal. I think the coach really wanted those cheaters on the team, and found a way around sticking to the rules for them.
So, if this IS about cheerleading, even though the OP hasn't decided to reveal the sport (which is annoying), stuff like this and worse has been going on since 1979 - I have proof!
|
|