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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:17:43 GMT
Hi as I have mentioned my mom has dementia and terminal ovarian cancer. She behaves like a young child a lot of the time and then sometimes she is coherent and can carry on a meaningful conversation (not today, however). Presently all she wants to do is die. She is not of sound mind. On the pro life spectrum I believe to keep fighting until nature takes over. She still has six months to a year left to live. I want her to be as happy as she can for the time she has left. I try to find fun things for her to do, take her places, buy her meaningful things, spend time with her and the dogs, etc. I don't know what to do now. She was screaming at me for not doing yard work outside (raking pinecones) I have a completely non-functioning arm. So she keeps yelling at me. I guess I am bitter because I collapsed one day after many days of no sleep staying with her at the hospital and she doesn't realize it was exhaustion after taking care of her. I am done. I am just done. Did anyone else feel like that? --------- No we pushed to get her chemo but were told no because the dementia was too far progressed. We are getting her some radiation to shrink the tumour, but again this will not prolong her life. I want her tube fed if that will keep her alive. I believe in "dying with dignity" for other people's families but don't walk the walk. We need more home care fast. I hope it is going to be set up for next week. ---------------------- I do need more care for her. Our hospice/palliative nurse is trying to get us set up with more hours. My dad does not want to put her into care, but he has to realize I can't care for her as much as she needs. That's the unfortunate thing. We do need more care. He takes a lot of her outbursts and she frustrates him as much as me. I think it is unfair to say he isn't suffering as well. The medical oncologist said she has www.webmd.com/stroke/vascular-dementia but someone isn't telling us the truth or giving us all the details. She has all the symptoms except for the stroke indication, but she has had some serious brain involvement. It's 4:40 am and I cannot sleep. I have had hospice pre-death counselling and while the woman who did the session was wonderful, I can't do that again. I left feeling worse than before I went. That to me is not helpful. I will ask our nurse if there are any support groups in the area. Hopefully she will know of something. Elannah |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 13, 2015 20:25:55 GMT
 oh, Elannah-- (((((HUGS))))) to you for taking care of her and going thru everything you have been, with your arm injury on top of it, too. I don't have any wisdom to share with you regarding your mother's condition... the mother of some very dear friends passed away a few months ago, and when the Pastor gave the sermon during her funeral, he mentioned that she wanted to die-- meaning, she was done with this life, and ready to die and go on to the next one... it was a bit shocking to hear at first, but after he explained, it was understandable... She didn't have the major health issues your mother has (that I know of), she was just in her late 90s, and 'tired' of being frail, not having her dignity with her lack of being able to care for herself, etc. and had done everything she wanted / needed to in this life-- she was ready to move on. You're in Canada, right?? Do they have regulations about 'dying with dignity' there? I so wish the did more places here in the US. meanwhile, (((more HUGS))) to you and try to de-stress when you can.
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oldcrow
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Post by oldcrow on May 13, 2015 20:27:46 GMT
What does this post about you have to do with "right to die". Your mother has dementia and therefore not eligible to make the decision. AND YOU DO NOT GET TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR HER.
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on May 13, 2015 20:31:43 GMT
I feel that she would need to be evaluated before such action could even be considered. She has times of being completely alert and aware and in my opinion a professional should question her regarding her wishes in that direction. Not just once, but several times.
It is what I would want for myself if I reach a point of dementia.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 13, 2015 20:32:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:32:31 GMT
What does this post about you have to do with "right to die". Your mother has dementia and therefore not eligible to make the decision. AND YOU DO NOT GET TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR HER. Did you read the part where I said I want to keep her alive as long as possible? |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:33:44 GMT
I am all for ventilators and tube feeding etc. Believe me, that is where I stand on it.
Does she have the right to choose how much longer she wants to live?
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on May 13, 2015 20:38:06 GMT
If it is legal where you are and she can be determined to have lucid times to express her wishes, then yes, she should be able to make the decision. How does your father feel about this? Arranged dying is new, we are just now absorbing that it even exists.
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Post by lesleyanne on May 13, 2015 20:40:42 GMT
Well, I do believe in the right to make a choice for euthanasia. Your mother would not be a candidate just about anywhere that it's legal. She is not of sound mind.
My mother had a DNR order. It was carefully crafted and actually on a magnet on her fridge. She was very clear about her beliefs. She was dying of lung cancer and was suffering. She did not ultimately have an assisted suicide as she those laws were too late for her. Having sat by her bedside for 13 days watching her die carefully honed my beliefs. We are kinder to our animals than we are to our dying.
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naby64
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Post by naby64 on May 13, 2015 20:40:48 GMT
What does this post about you have to do with "right to die". Your mother has dementia and therefore not eligible to make the decision. AND YOU DO NOT GET TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR HER. Did you read the part where I said I want to keep her alive as long as possible? No, I didn't see this at all. I heard you complaining as a care-giver. I went back and re-read and still did not see that. My grandmother started with dementia and went into full-blown Alzheimers before she finally passed away. Unfortunately, as it got worse, she became more combative, verbally mean, throwing out allegations of abuse towards my mother, etc. It will not get better. It may come to a point where you will have to consider an assisted living facility or nursing home for her. For your health and sanity. It is very hard on a caregiver, both mentally and physically. BUT your mom is not of sound mind and cannot make any decisions on her life at this point. |
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oldcrow
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Post by oldcrow on May 13, 2015 20:42:14 GMT
What does this post about you have to do with "right to die". Your mother has dementia and therefore not eligible to make the decision. AND YOU DO NOT GET TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR HER. Did you read the part where I said I want to keep her alive as long as possible? Actually you did not say "as long as possible" you said "until nature takes over" and gave it a time frame. Your title and last line seems to boil down your feelings. I'm sorry your mother is giving you a hard time right now. I'm sure she would not have chosen to do it this way. But as they say this too shall pass. |
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Post by utmr on May 13, 2015 20:42:59 GMT
There's also a difference between right to die (like the lady in Oregon with brain cancer) where someone willingly hastens their death and hospice type care (probably the wrong word) where death isn't induced but aggressive life sustaining measures are avoided.
Peace and strength to both you and your mom. Can you arrange for some respite care for her to give you a break?
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akathy
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Post by akathy on May 13, 2015 20:43:19 GMT
I am all for ventilators and tube feeding etc. Believe me, that is where I stand on it. Does she have the right to choose how much longer she wants to live? I'm all for the right to die provided the person in question is of sound mind. Obviously if your mother has dementia she is not of sound mind. I don't understand how you expect your mother to realize you are wearing yourself out. She's not of sound mind. You need to set limits for yourself so you're not overburdened. She's certainly not going to realize that you're overdoing it. That's on you. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:44:01 GMT
We just ignore her "I want to die" "Leave me to die in peace" "Don't you realize I am nearly dead?" arguments.
It's the yelling, throwing things, screaming, etc I am done with.
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Kerri W
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Post by Kerri W on May 13, 2015 20:44:51 GMT
I am done. I am just done. Did anyone else feel like that? I can't answer your question about your mom's right to die, but I need to give you a great big (((HUG))) and tell you Yes...a thousand, billion times...YES!!! My mom is mentally ill. She refuses to do anything her doctors tell her to do. She is 100% noncompliant. She has a medical complaint, her doctor thoroughly works her up, sends her to specialists, rules it essentially nothing or gives a treatment plan that she will NOT follow and she comes up with a new death sentence for herself. We have had a very very rough 12 months. I'm at the point where I cannot make her want to live. I cannot make her follow the doctors orders. She sees a psychiatrist and a psychologist and they are both very attentive to her and yet we can't make her participate in her own life. It's sad. And I'm fed up. I can't want it more than her and I'm tired. I'm constantly in fear that my bosses will get fed up with me taking her doctor's appointments and let me go. I totally get it. I'm sorry. And I want to hug you.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:44:53 GMT
HOnestly, I think all of you can do is change your attitude towards this (which I don't mean to sound as cavalier as it does) and/or find a way to get some help and respite. You're not even at the start of a marathon, and you're acting like you've already finished a short sprint. Don't let your mother's yelling get to you. Take a deep breath, remind yourself it's the disease speaking, and redirect her if you can and remove yourself from the situation if you cannot.
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Post by moveablefeast on May 13, 2015 20:46:38 GMT
In my personal opinion, no, your mom is not in a place to make a decision about hastening her death. If she has dementia, she is not making that decision with her full faculties. I would not be personally able to support a decision under those circumstances.
What care is your mom receiving now? Given her dementia, is she in a care facility or receiving home health? If not, listen, I don't mean to be harsh but this is only going to get more challenging as the months go on and you may want to consider getting help.
If you are wearing yourself out to the point of collapse, stop. Get help. Make the time you have with her as productive as possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:46:59 GMT
I am not pushing for euthanasia at all.
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on May 13, 2015 20:50:01 GMT
Well, ok then. But you can not expect to keep her at home while she gets worse and worse. I'm sorry, I guess I thought she had expressed an interest in dying with dignity.
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on May 13, 2015 20:52:01 GMT
I am all for ventilators and tube feeding etc. Believe me, that is where I stand on it. Does she have the right to choose how much longer she wants to live? In Washington State she does - as long as she's of sound mind, 2 Doctors have weighed in and signed off, AND she has a terminal illness. And most importantly, she can take the pills of her own free will and strength (meaning, someone can't feed the pills to her and make her take them). I'm not sure what the rules in BC are. But if your mom wishes to die, you can't stop her either way. Be there for her. Love her. You said yourself she has less than a year no matter what. I understand how difficult it is when dealing with someone with dementia, but all you can do is your best to not be combative with her and have as many good days as possible before she dies. |
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 13, 2015 20:54:36 GMT
Delta Dawn , i get that it's awful to see your mother decline like that but I think she would have needed to make decisions about her end of life care before she developed dementia. (hugs to you both) Do you get home care support? When my mother was dying we used Beacon Community Services which was also in B.C. They won't rake the yard but they may give you a break.
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Post by hop2 on May 13, 2015 20:54:47 GMT
If she had her 'right mind' IMHO I do think she has the right to decide. However, SHE would have to both have her right mind, and be able to take the action necessary. NO ONE else should. That wouldn't be right. I also believe that it is each persons choice to fight for every last breath and heartbeat. ( this is what my father chose ) Or to choose to be made as comfortable as possible and let nature take its course with no heroic measures. This is what my mother chose. Though like your mother she often verbally said she wished she could just die. She might have even 'tried' as we caught her smoking with her oxygen mask ON multiple times. Though we aren't sure as she had dementia with her emphysema so we may never know if she just 'forgot'. When she had heart failure the hospital made us sign papers that she could go home on hospice as opposed to going on a lung and heart machine. She requested to go home to her cat in seemingly the clearest mind she had in years. What allowed us and the hospital to allow her to do it was her living will. But the hospital refused to adhere to it unless all of us signed paperwork that it was ok. So yes oldcrow, Elannah may have to, at the very least, agree to her mom's choice at some point. Living will, directive, or not, dead people don't sue, living next of kin do, so hospitals seem extremely reluctant to pull plugs if living next of kin have objections. ( which also isn't right) |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 13, 2015 20:54:44 GMT
...I have no experience at all, here, but perhaps you should not ignore her and brush her aside when she says things like this?? I mean, that's what she wants (whether it's the disease talking or not). Can you acknowledge her feelings about wanting to die, and still say 'I understand how you feel, but it's in nature's / God's / whatever's hands...' Is there any sort of pastoral counseling or hospice care available that would help in how to talk about this with her?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:58:51 GMT
I'm slightly confused by your OP but yes over the past 15 months I've felt like that a lot. You need to sleep, you are useless to everyone including yourself if you're exhausted. Are you still working? I think for now you need to make a decision either to take some compassionate leave and take care of your mum full time or get someone to come in and help out at home while you're at work. You can not do both, you will be ill and I'm sure your mum doesn't want that to happen.
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Post by disneypal on May 13, 2015 20:58:57 GMT
Does she have the right to choose how much longer she wants to live? I do not think she is in her right mind and therefore cannot make that decision and I think if you thought about it, I'm sure you wouldn't want her to make that choice at this point and time. Right now, you are just exhausted and frustrated (and rightly so) I'm sorry...it is very hard being the care-giver, especially of a parent. Do you think perhaps your mother should be in a nursing home or hospice care? I know it isn't an easy decision but it may be best for her and for you. |
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Post by papersilly on May 13, 2015 21:01:06 GMT
What does this post about you have to do with "right to die". Your mother has dementia and therefore not eligible to make the decision. AND YOU DO NOT GET TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR HER. yeah, I got a little confused by your title and your post. to me, "right to die" is on the patient's terms and the patient's decision. unfortunately, your mom's condition precludes her from this. aside from that, I'm sorry for the stress you are going through. being a caregiver can be the hardest and most selfless thing one can do for another human being. my friend did it for both of her parents who each had dementia or Alzheimer disease. it certainly blurred the relationship lines between caregiver and child. when she was unable to care for them anymore and had to move them to a facility, not having the physical and emotional stress of the daily caregiving helped to restore the parent/child relationship. I saw my friend wither during those years she cared for her parents. she was anxious, became depressed, didn't eat, didn't sleep, was exhausted all the time. she a million years in that time. take care of yourself. find time for yourself. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 21:17:31 GMT
What does this post about you have to do with "right to die". Your mother has dementia and therefore not eligible to make the decision. AND YOU DO NOT GET TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR HER. yeah, I got a little confused by your title and your post. to me, "right to die" is on the patient's terms and the patient's decision. unfortunately, your mom's condition precludes her from this. aside from that, I'm sorry for the stress you are going through. being a caregiver can be the hardest and most selfless thing one can do for another human being. my friend did it for both of her parents who each had dementia or Alzheimer disease. it certainly blurred the relationship lines between caregiver and child. when she was unable to care for them anymore and had to move them to a facility, not having the physical and emotional stress of the daily caregiving helped to restore the parent/child relationship. I saw my friend wither during those years she cared for her parents. she was anxious, became depressed, didn't eat, didn't sleep, was exhausted all the time. she a million years in that time. take care of yourself. find time for yourself. I didn't think she could make this decision either. I want her to keep fighting to live. I want to keep her alive as long as possible. She may be near the end, but she isn't dead yet. I want her to see that. I want to take her places and do fun stuff together even if it's just for an hour. I don't care about the little stuff, wearing 3 watches or what have you, just the screaming at me I want to stop. I did talk to my dad and he was really helpful. I felt a lot better after talking to him. She is the same way with him. I am jealous, too. I have customers who are 90 and are driving themselves to shop. Why isn't she going to live to be 90, too? Because life isn't fair. Anyway, if I keep posting on this I will keep crying do you guys go ahead and post if you want or let the tread die. (The funny thing is I saw my other son this morning==DS' BFF and I drove him grocery shopping. Then I saw a friend of mine and translated for her. Then went grocery shopping and found the best cinnamon bun ever and then DS called and he got a job at Honda!) then came home to screaming... Peace out. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 13, 2015 21:19:54 GMT
sorry you're having such a bad go of it right now... it does suck that life isn't fair.
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Post by scrapmaven on May 13, 2015 21:22:45 GMT
The belligerence both physical and emotional is a product of her dementia. Unfortunately, it's one of the stages and just makes everything so much harder. You need breaks from your role as caretaker. Your mother is suffering and as caregiver you suffer, too. I'm so very sorry.
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loco coco
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Post by loco coco on May 13, 2015 21:27:55 GMT
Your mom doesn't understand your exhaustion, just try and remember that. She is not herself right now. Ive seen my parents take care of 2 family members with Alzheimers, draining and stressful is an huge understatement. Its hard not to lose patience but you have to remember its not their fault.
Im sorry you and your mom are struggling (hugs)
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oh, Elannah-- (((((HUGS))))) to you for taking care of her and going thru everything you have been, with your arm injury on top of it, too.
