johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 21, 2015 23:11:28 GMT
Plus, what is her deal with flipping out over them ordering 3 pancakes. It's their money. Maybe they wanted to take some home for later. This, exactly! I have no idea what/who to believe about how long the kid was screaming or how exactly the owner "yelled" but who the hell cares if they ordered 3 pancakes? They paid for them, right? Maybe they thought the pancakes were smaller. Maybe the kid insisted on 3 and the parents were trying to avoid a meltdown. Maybe the parents were going to eat the extras. Maybe they wanted leftovers for later.
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Post by elaine on Jul 21, 2015 23:13:47 GMT
There are a million ways to deal with a crying child - screaming and bitching out the parents loudly and publicly isn't the way to do it if you want my business. I bet if she came over and talked quietly with the parents about it, the outcome would have been very different. Parents might have left after a quiet conversation, child might have stopped crying, owner might have offered employee break room since it was raining out, etc. I have no interest in supporting a business owner who is rude and yells at customers - it sounds as if she was as loud, or louder than, crying child. Somehow I think you might be being overly optimistic or generous with the parents' response to a quiet chat. I imagine they still would have gone online and tweeted and yelped and stirred up a hub bub. I see it all the time online: people huffy because their special snowflake was called on their bs and their parenting skills questioned much to their embarrassment. There was a particularly brutal one on Yahoo Parenting a few weeks ago about a woman not taking her kid out of a dark movie theater and expecting everyone to just suck it up and being hurt when someone told her to remove the kid and then her trying to fall back on the "my kid is special and how dare you call me on it" defense. If they are the type to make a stink, which it kinda looks like, then they are gonna make a stink whether you call them out across a room or in their faces quietly. If they aren't the type to make a stink or get something out of it, even if only pats on the back, they wouldn't be talking to anybody about it and it would be a none story. And, honestly, no one should have needed to say a word in the first place. 5 minutes, 45 minutes, whatever, they should have already been gone of their own volition. Did the owner handle it right? Probably not, but she shouldn't have had to handle it at all. If there was the slightest bit of an angry peep outta one of my kids, we were gone. We believe that we didn't have the right to bother others with the grating cries of an upset baby. We ate out alot back then and it was seldom an issue. My oldest makes happy humming sounds when the food is particularly delicious and I've been know to apologize for those, even if they weren't obviously bothering anyone. Unless a history of bizarre or aggressive behavior and poor service come out on the owner, I think it's sad that her livelihood could be hurt because of a customer that was (in my opinion) rude first. She may well have just been looking out for the other paying customers. I've heard that child-free restaurants are becoming a thing, maybe she'd be better off opening one of those. They were on vacation. On vacation. Not home. I'm glad to hear that you never inflicted any listeners to melt downs by your kids on vacation, but I will admit we have struggled occasionally with this. While we wouldn't sit there for 40 minutes with crying, I don't know one parent, other than you, that walks out of a restaurant when one of your kids makes a peep when you are all tired and out of your element on vacation. The parents should have done more to quiet the child or remove her, but they certainly didn't deserve the lunatic rage of the diner owner who doesn't want to serve what is on her menu followed by yelling and then obscenities on Facebook. I am not sad for the owner at all - she isn't sad about her behavior, why should you be sad about the natural consequences? oh, come on. The woman was bitching because the people ordered something that is on the actual menu. She was looking for trouble and continued to look for trouble on her Facebook afterwards. No matter how crappy and undeserving the parents may be, I still wouldn't set a foot in this woman's restaurant.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 21, 2015 23:22:34 GMT
I kind of got the idea that the whole 'three pancakes' issue was in part, the reason they had to wait so long.
1) from the photo linked, the pancake are huge and the kid wouldn't ever be able to eat them all (the server was trying to help them out in that case, "hey, are you sure you want to order that many? they're really big" )
and
2) the grill was TINY (again, seen in the photo provided in one of the stories linked) and making them would take a while, as busy as the place was-- 75 patrons is really busy for one kitchen / one or two cooks.
--> all of this together in turn, led to the other patrons being subjected to the screaming from the kid for a longer amount of time.
(none of this would have mattered at ALL if the parents had controlled the child or taken them outside, in the restroom, etc. till they calmed down, because there wouldn't have BEEN any tantrum from the child or from the owner.)
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,937
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 21, 2015 23:24:02 GMT
I would bet money the truth lies somewhere in between.
The parents seem clueless and the owner seems aggressive. I don't trust either side on this one.
Parents should take crying kids out after a couple minutes of actually TRYING to do something about it.
Business owners should be savvy enough not to scream and swear at/about patrons.
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Post by Skypea on Jul 21, 2015 23:27:07 GMT
The owner posted a RANT on the store's Facebook page that has been taken down. Her response was filled with vulgarity... maybe she's a pea?
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Post by elaine on Jul 21, 2015 23:36:47 GMT
I kind of got the idea that the whole 'three pancakes' issues was in part, the reason they had to wait so long. 1) from the photo linked, the pancake are huge and the kid wouldn't ever be able to eat them all (the server was trying to help them out in that case, "hey, are you sure you want to order that many? they're really big" ) and 2) the grill was TINY (again, and making them would take a while, as busy as the place was-- 75 patrons is really busy for one kitchen / one or two cooks.) --> all of this together in turn, led to the other patrons being subjected to the screaming from the kid for a longer amount of time. (none of this would have mattered at ALL if the parents had controlled the child or taken them outside, in the restroom, etc. till they calmed down, because there wouldn't have BEEN any tantrum from the child or from the owner.) Anyone with experience with toddlers would know that the THREE was important, since they were listed singly on the menu and I'm sure priced accordingly. If the server was really wanting to be helpful, it could have been asked if they wanted three regular plate-sized pancakes, or three small pancakes that were equivalent to one regular-sized pancakes. No parent orders three entrees for their 2 y.o. if there isn't a reason. My guess is that it was made clear somewhere on the menu that there were no substitutions or special orders, so the parents ordered 3 entrees because the kid wanted three pancakes. I wouldn't find it helpful if a server came up and just said "are you sure you want to order that?" without suggesting an alternative. I'm guessing that she/he, like the owner, doesn't have kids, so really didn't have a clue. Which is fine, but then don't bitch when someone orders three pancakes for their 2 yo.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 21, 2015 23:38:54 GMT
what? all I meant (and thought I said) was the 'three pancakes' thing was one of the reasons they had to wait so long, which could have contributed to the tantrum.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 21, 2015 23:40:57 GMT
Insisting on ordering THREE huge pancakes simply because a toddler wants THREE tells me a lot about these parents. Kids won't die if they hear the word "no" once in a while.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 21, 2015 23:41:55 GMT
I have no issue with a cautionary statement from the server upon ordering. But the way her FB post read they may well have been ordering 3 dozen. As for the kitchen not being able to handle that many, IMO, not my problem. 3 pancakes is not a large order, regardless of what size they are, if the kitchen can't handle that then either the kitchen is too small or the dining room is too large.
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Post by elaine on Jul 21, 2015 23:42:46 GMT
what? all I meant (and thought I said) was the 'three pancakes' thing was one of the reasons they had to wait so long, which could have contributed to the tantrum. Sorry! I thought you were saying that the parents shouldn't have ordered the three pancakes and that the server was being helpful by asking if they were sure they wanted to. My bad!
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 21, 2015 23:43:07 GMT
Insisting on ordering THREE huge pancakes simply because a toddler wants THREE tells me a lot about these parents. Kids won't die if they hear the word "no" once in a while. well, she might throw a tantrum if she doesn't get... wait a tic... ETA: elaine, that's what I was kind of saying-- the server might have been trying to be helpful in saying 'are you sure you want three of them just for her?' because they're really big. I don't see what's wrong with doing that (a why waste money and food if it won't be eaten kind of thing.)
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Post by darkangel090260 on Jul 21, 2015 23:44:30 GMT
ok i have to agree with the owner. Because there is no reason anyone should have to listen to a child being loud or screaming. M has bee going out since he was 5 weeks old. he has never made that type of problem. he has been raised to know better. I have had a place pack up our meal just because he would not use his inside voice . There was not a few minutes or waiting it was one warring and a second later we had them packing our meal. his sister took him out side so i could take care of the bill with a extra tip. He was not able to go out with us for a meal for a few months. He is 25 month now and a gentleman when we go out. he even says please and thank you
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Post by elaine on Jul 21, 2015 23:47:00 GMT
Insisting on ordering THREE huge pancakes simply because a toddler wants THREE tells me a lot about these parents. Kids won't die if they hear the word "no" once in a while. Yeah, and then the kid cries even more loudly and they are out of town and have to eat somewhere. So, now the parents are bad parents because they tried to avoid a meltdown, and other people are criticizing them because they didn't actually feed them to the girl, rather than having her feed herself? They are bad parents if they don't do enough to quiet her, and bad parents if they do too much to avoid a meltdown? Oy!
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Post by padresfan619 on Jul 21, 2015 23:48:07 GMT
I do not understand why the pancakes were put down just out of reach of the child so they couldn't eat?
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 21, 2015 23:51:03 GMT
well, yeah, I think they're bad parents. I thought that was pretty much a given.
I'm not even sure why THREE pancakes came up in the first place, but I would have just ordered "pancakes." If two arrived and my child started to throw a fit because there were only two, she'd learn really quick that two is better than none. Her butt would be outside throwing a fit in the car or on the sidewalk in the rain. She could have her cold pancakes later when we got back to the hotel room.
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Post by elaine on Jul 21, 2015 23:52:03 GMT
Insisting on ordering THREE huge pancakes simply because a toddler wants THREE tells me a lot about these parents. Kids won't die if they hear the word "no" once in a while. well, she might throw a tantrum if she doesn't get... wait a tic... ETA: elaine, that's what I was kind of saying-- the server might have been trying to be helpful in saying 'are you sure you want three of them just for her?' because they're really big. I don't see what's wrong with doing that (a why waste money and food if it won't be eaten kind of thing.) I'm guessing the parents knew that. Let's pretend that the pancakes were each $6 on the menu, priced around the same as the other entrees, I'm fairly sure the parents knew that the toddler wasn't going to eat $18 worth of food. But, even if she wasn't going to eat it all, it shouldn't have mattered. What if each parent wanted a pancake and an omelette and the kid just wanted one pancake? Three pancakes and two omelettes isn't an outrageous amount of food for a table to order and shouldn't hold up the table being served.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 21, 2015 23:52:36 GMT
if the child was hungry and they ordered three full-size pancakes which took longer to get (as opposed to ordering only one, or something else) and then when they did finally get their food, no one actually started eating or no one fed the child, either?
yeah, it really doesn't sound to me like the parents did much to avoid that meltdown...
ETA again: there are no restaurants where they bring out the food as it's prepared; it all waits until it's all ready. And if the parents had ordered the pancakes to go with their entrees, then the orders would have been phrased that way. Not to mention, usually omelets come with hash browns and toast on the side, not pancakes. So I think you're making it a lot more complicated than it most likely was.
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luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,067
Jun 25, 2014 21:21:08 GMT
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Post by luckyexwife on Jul 21, 2015 23:59:41 GMT
Thanks to this thread, we are having pancakes for supper tonight!
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Post by elaine on Jul 22, 2015 0:01:12 GMT
if the child was hungry and they ordered three full-size pancakes which took longer to get (as opposed to ordering only one, or something else) and then when they did finally get their food, no one actually started eating or no one fed the child, either? yeah, it really doesn't sound to me like the parents did much to avoid that meltdown... ETA again: there are no restaurants where they bring out the food as it's prepared; it all waits until it's all ready. And if the parents had ordered the pancakes to go with their entrees, then the orders would have been phrased that way. Not to mention, usually omelets come with hash browns and toast on the side, not pancakes. So I think you're making it a lot more complicated than it most likely was. I'm not making it complicated - I just don't buy or understand why/how 3 pancakes and 2 omelettes for one table makes it that hard or complicated to cook. It would have been a table for four anyhow, so again, really was only a problem because the owner was looking for it. And yes, because I love pancakes and omelettes both, I have been known to order both of I don't have the option of a pancake as a side in place of potatoes.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 22, 2015 0:02:55 GMT
did you not see the photo of the griddle, and get the idea that the place had 75 patrons in?? I think that makes it relevant in terms of how long they had to wait, and the tantrum / screaming going on longer than it probably should have.
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Post by molove on Jul 22, 2015 0:03:36 GMT
Seems to me that both parties over reacted. Both sides need to take responsibility. Both sides are going to have supporters and detractors.
The truth lies somewhere in the middle of what each of them is saying.
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Post by maryland on Jul 22, 2015 0:04:54 GMT
ok i have to agree with the owner. Because there is no reason anyone should have to listen to a child being loud or screaming. M has bee going out since he was 5 weeks old. he has never made that type of problem. he has been raised to know better. I have had a place pack up our meal just because he would not use his inside voice . There was not a few minutes or waiting it was one warring and a second later we had them packing our meal. his sister took him out side so i could take care of the bill with a extra tip. He was not able to go out with us for a meal for a few months. He is 25 month now and a gentleman when we go out. he even says please and thank you darkangel, Sounds like you have a sweet little boy! That's how we handled things with our kids too. We didn't want to disturb others, so one of us took the baby out if she was crying. We were very fortunate that our kids threw their tantrums at home, not in public. Our girls were very good too with the please and thank you. Now that they are teens, we have to review pleasantries with them! Who would think it was easier for us to train toddlers than teens!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 8, 2024 4:17:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 0:04:56 GMT
Oh god, this is really disheartening. No one I know allows their kid to scream or cry in a restaurant - they stand up and go outside immediately, especially if there's screeching or screaming of any kind at all. No, I don't expect people to leave with the sound of a peep, but loud crying, screaming, screeching, shrieking, or anything that makes other diners actually physically flinch, I expect parents to remove the child and not wait 10 minutes or beyond. 10 minutes is a really long time to allow a child to cry in a public place where everyone else is trapped. I guess we could just as easily go outside until the tantrum subsides? I am fed up with children carrying on in restaurants, even expensive restaurants lately and it seems like it's getting worse and worse, while the bleary-eyed parents vacantly stare into space or focus extra hard on their conversations or smart phones. Ugh. I hope she didn't scream at that child or in the child's face, but the parents sound like they needed a nice public shaming.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 22, 2015 0:07:15 GMT
if the child was hungry and they ordered three full-size pancakes which took longer to get (as opposed to ordering only one, or something else) and then when they did finally get their food, no one actually started eating or no one fed the child, either? yeah, it really doesn't sound to me like the parents did much to avoid that meltdown... ETA again: there are no restaurants where they bring out the food as it's prepared; it all waits until it's all ready. And if the parents had ordered the pancakes to go with their entrees, then the orders would have been phrased that way. Not to mention, usually omelets come with hash browns and toast on the side, not pancakes. So I think you're making it a lot more complicated than it most likely was. I'm not making it complicated - I just don't buy or understand why/how 3 pancakes and 2 omelettes for one table makes it that hard or complicated to cook. It would have been a table for four anyhow, so again, really was only a problem because the owner was looking for it. And yes, because I love pancakes and omelettes both, I have been known to order both of I don't have the option of a pancake as a side in place of potatoes. I agree, 3 pancakes and 2 omelets is NOT a big order. FTR, here's their menu: www.nicemuffin.com/menu.html 3 pancakes is a menu option. I don't see a kids menu either.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jul 22, 2015 0:07:45 GMT
Anyone with experience with toddlers would know that the THREE was important, since they were listed singly on the menu and I'm sure priced accordingly. If the server was really wanting to be helpful, it could have been asked if they wanted three regular plate-sized pancakes, or three small pancakes that were equivalent to one regular-sized pancakes. No parent orders three entrees for their 2 y.o. if there isn't a reason. My guess is that it was made clear somewhere on the menu that there were no substitutions or special orders, so the parents ordered 3 entrees because the kid wanted three pancakes. I wouldn't find it helpful if a server came up and just said "are you sure you want to order that?" without suggesting an alternative. I'm guessing that she/he, like the owner, doesn't have kids, so really didn't have a clue. Which is fine, but then don't bitch when someone orders three pancakes for their 2 yo. And isn't that such an excellent lesson to teach a toddler- you get everything you ask for, when you ask for it.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 22, 2015 0:17:44 GMT
I guess diners and other restaurants now have to post signs that say "please remove your child if your child can't be controlled, cries, screams or disrupts others in anyway. Yes, this means you" because parents obviously Cannot be expected to be aware of the need to do this and therefore they must be told
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Post by elaine on Jul 22, 2015 0:24:03 GMT
Anyone with experience with toddlers would know that the THREE was important, since they were listed singly on the menu and I'm sure priced accordingly. If the server was really wanting to be helpful, it could have been asked if they wanted three regular plate-sized pancakes, or three small pancakes that were equivalent to one regular-sized pancakes. No parent orders three entrees for their 2 y.o. if there isn't a reason. My guess is that it was made clear somewhere on the menu that there were no substitutions or special orders, so the parents ordered 3 entrees because the kid wanted three pancakes. I wouldn't find it helpful if a server came up and just said "are you sure you want to order that?" without suggesting an alternative. I'm guessing that she/he, like the owner, doesn't have kids, so really didn't have a clue. Which is fine, but then don't bitch when someone orders three pancakes for their 2 yo. And isn't that such an excellent lesson to teach a toddler- you get everything you ask for, when you ask for it. Okay, you tell that to peas on this thread who have said that the parents should have done more in the moment in the restaurant to avoid and mitigate a meltdown. Can't win either way - either the parents are bad for ignoring the child's crying and not doing enough to prevent or stop it, or bad for doing things that they think will avoid a meltdown in the moment because they are away from home, hungry, and need to eat somewhere, because it might teach a bad lesson... I will go ahead and nominate myself for RefuPeas Worst Parent of The Year award right now, because I, in that moment, would probably do whatever I thought it would take to eat a meal with minimal meltdown. I really stink as a parent, especially on vacation.
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Post by myshelly on Jul 22, 2015 0:28:31 GMT
And isn't that such an excellent lesson to teach a toddler- you get everything you ask for, when you ask for it. Okay, you tell that to peas on this thread who have said that the parents should have done more in the moment in the restaurant to avoid and mitigate a meltdown. Can't win either way - either the parents are bad for ignoring the child's crying and not doing enough to prevent or stop it, or bad for doing things that they think will avoid a meltdown in the moment because they are away from home, hungry, and need to eat somewhere, because it might teach a bad lesson... I will go ahead and nominate myself for RefuPeas Worst Parent of The Year award right now, because I, in that moment, would probably do whatever I thought it would take to eat a meal with minimal meltdown. I really stink as a parent, especially on vacation. I guess I just can't see it from the parents side. Even when we travel I always have snacks for the kids. If the toddler was melting down bc she was hungry, take her to the car and feed her snacks as an appetizer. One parent stays at the table and texts the parent in the car when the food is delivered. Everyone still gets breakfast and no one has to listen to screaming kid. I don't get why there are people who can't figure out a solution to some very basic parenting problems. It doesn't matter if you are on vacation, no one else should have to out up with your screaming child. That's unacceptable.
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happymomma
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Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on Jul 22, 2015 0:35:05 GMT
Am I the only one surprised that one or more of the other customers didn't say something to the parents long before the owner had to step in? I'll bet there was a whole lotta stink-eye being given. 1. The number of pancakes shouldn't be an issue. I'm giggling at the analysis of that, but in a good way because hey, that's what we do here. I can see how it pertains to the timeframe though. 2. The pancakes were at the table! Feed the kid! 3. How in the world could even the parents of screaming child have sat there listening to that nonsense for so long??? The only way I can even begin to grasp that is if the kid does this regularly and the parents have learned to tune it out. Which is fine if you're at your own home or whatever but how inconsiderate does one set of parents have to be to not give a crap that MANY other people are having to tolerate this nonsense? RUDE RUDE RUDE. So, it seems like rudeness is something they're pretty comfortable with and someone being rude back to them shouldn't have bothered them. 4. The thing that I see being overlooked in so many of the comments here is that the owner DID attempt to resolve this well before it became a full blown incident. She approached the family with togo boxes and asked them to leave once. They didn't and let the wailing continue. Unreal. 5. FTR: The oner didn't go scream in the child's face. She yelled from the grill area. It should have never gotten to that, but I'm surprised there wasn't a round of applause given by the rest of the patrons. 6. This kind of makes me want to vacation in Maine and go to this diner! 7. I, too, now want some pancakes.
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Post by christine58 on Jul 22, 2015 0:35:23 GMT
The owner posted a RANT on the store's Facebook page that has been taken down. Her response was filled with vulgarity... maybe she's a pea? Maybe...but it was awful...really awful. She could have gotten her point across without all the vulgarity
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