Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 1:09:02 GMT
Hi my BFF and I have a friend, Mary, who is trying to buy new glasses. She is First Nations and her band is local to the area. She went to the first place glasses store and she got fitted for the glasses and they never made them for her. (The glasses place has to contact DIA - the word she called it, it is now called Department of First Nations and Northern Affairs to get them to pay for her glasses. She is low income, working a very tiring and demanding, low paying job dealing with the public. (She has had numerous raises and is a top performing employee-that doesn't matter here, though). The first glasses place never called DFNNA and she said "forget it, I am going elsewhere." (That took a month.)
She went to another place and had them fill her glasses Rx. She has been back 3x. A couple of times they "couldn't find her file" when she went in when they said her glasses would be ready on Tuesday (2 weeks ago). Then she went in again and they, too, hadn't called DFFNA for approval and she was standing at the counter and the cashier said, "Oh I need to call DFFNA". Mary who is very soft spoken and doesn't speak up for herself said, "Yes, would you please call them for approval". DFNNA approved the payment, and yet she still doesn't have her glasses.
We were sitting in the mall having coffee and I was getting more and more pissed off as she was telling what happened. I told Mary that we would write a letter to her local MP (Member of Parliament) and see what he could do for her. I told Mary that I can compose something really nice for her and I think we need to escalate this at this point. When I say 'really nice' that means I can write something that is polite and scathing at the same time.
This is pure discrimination. The two glasses places don't want to deal with First Nations nor the department apparently. Mary said she has had similar experiences elsewhere (in her personal life). I told her that was not acceptable, but there was nothing I could do about the past. I can do something about this. Mary knows the way they have treated her is wrong and is happy I am going to do something about it.
I asked Mary to write me an email tonight outlining everything she can remember that has happened so far with regards to the glasses. I know from personal experience from having worked in a Deputy Minister's office that they do NOT like to get email and letters from constituents that show how anything other than that they are doing a good job. When an email exposes racism and BS they tend to act very quickly and fix the situation. The reason I am going the federal and not provincial route (as would normally be the case) First Nations people's health care is handled federally not provincially.
Mary can't write this herself. I don't think she has the writing skills to do it nor does she have the knowledge where to send it to. She will be sending it herself from her email address with me sitting right beside her.
This is the right thing to do, right?
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Post by ntsf on Aug 25, 2015 1:20:26 GMT
sure..we all need advocates for different things at different times in our lives...sometimes we can do it for ourselves, sometimes we can't. we need our friends and family to be the ...xxx's from hell. I even got a coffee mug from a friend after helping her navigate the special ed system for her child --"i"m a proud mother from hell"".... and look at it fondly.
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scrappinwithoutpeas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,914 
Location: Northern Virginia
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Post by scrappinwithoutpeas on Aug 25, 2015 1:25:20 GMT
Yes, I think you are doing the right thing to advocate for your friend.
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Post by chaosisapony on Aug 25, 2015 1:25:54 GMT
Can the office prove that her glasses have been ordered? I realize that it's a whole different system up there so what I know may not apply to your situation but here when we deal with tribes we get approval for the amount the patient wants to spend and order the glasses. The tribes send the check to pay for them on their own schedule. The patient does not get the glasses until the check from the tribe is in the office. This is our own office policy since we have had trouble in the past with tribes not paying when they said they would.
Is it really discrimination? I see that word thrown around a lot and I'm not sure it always applies. I would need a lot more information about what has gone on here before I start tossing around that word. If these offices don't want to do what they have to to get payment from whatever government agency couldn't they just tell her they don't accept that form of payment/insurance/whatever you want to call it? There are a few insurances, organizations and tribes that my office doesn't deal with simply because it's too difficult and/or they are sketchy on payment. We have the ability to tell the patient "sorry we don't accept xyz"
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 5:17:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 1:32:23 GMT
www.chrc-ccdp.ca/eng/content/what-discriminationThey need to implement spell-check or at least autocorrect with regards to their website. What is discrimination? A summary of this page is available in accessible video (ASL, captioning and voice-over) Discrimination is an action or a decision that treats a person or a group negatively for reasons such as their race, age or disability. These reasons are known as grounds of discrimination. Federal employers and service providers, as well as employers and service providers of private companies that are regulated by the federal government, cannot discriminate against individuals for these reasons. These 11 grounds are protected under the Canadian Human Rights Act: race national or ethnic origin colour religion age sex sexual orientation marital status family status disability a conviction for which a pardon has been granted or a record suspended. There are several ways that a person could be discriminated against. The Canadian Human Rights Act calls these discriminatory practices. The following seven discriminatory practices are prohibited by the Canadian Human Rights Act when they are based on one or more of the 11 grounds of discrimination: Denying someone goods, services, facilities or accommodation.Providing someone goods, services, facilities or accommodation in a way that treats them adversely and differently. Refusing to employ or continue to employ someone, or treating them unfairly in the workplace. Following policies or practices that deprive people of employment opportunities. Paying men and women differently when they are doing work of the same value. Retaliating against a person who has filed a complaint with the Commission or against someone who has filed a complaint for them. Harassing someone. Federal employers are not allowed to discriminate against their employees. In fact, they are obligated to make every effort to accommodate an employee’s individual circumstances that relate to protected grounds of discrimination. We call this the duty to accommodate. If you work for or receive services from a business or organization that is regulated by the federal government, and you believe you have experienced discrimination because of one of the 11 grounds, you can file a complaint with the Canadian Human Rights Commission. Examples of discrimination based on the various grounds: A bank has lending rules that make it unreasonably difficult for new immigrants to get loans. This is an example of discrimination based on two grounds—race and national or ethnic origin. A person is systematically referred to secondary screening at airports due to the colour of their skin. This may be a case of discrimination based on the ground of colour. More An employer assigns her employees to weekend shifts without recognizing that some employees observe the Sabbath and cannot work on those days. This may be a case of discrimination based on the ground of religion. An employer’s physical fitness requirements are based on the capabilities of an average 25 year old instead of being based on the actual requirements of the job. This imay be a case of discrimination based on the ground of age. A female employee with an excellent performance record announces that she is pregnant. Immediately, her employer begins to identify performance issues that lead to her dismissal. This may be a case of discrimination based on the ground of sex. A policy provides benefits to some married couples but not to others. This may be a case of discrimination based on two grounds—sexual orientation and marital status. After having a child, a woman cannot find childcare to continue working overnight shifts, and her employer does not allow flexibility by scheduling her on day shifts. This may be a case of discrimination based on the ground of family status. An employer requires all employees to have a valid driver’s licence. People who cannot drive due to a disability are not given an opportunity to show how they could still perform the job by, for example, using public transit. This may be a case of discrimination based on the ground of disability. A person is denied a job because of a previous conviction for which a pardon has been granted or a record has been suspended. This may be a case of discrimination based on the ground of pardoned conviction.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 5:17:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 1:34:33 GMT
Can the office prove that her glasses have been ordered? I realize that it's a whole different system up there so what I know may not apply to your situation but here when we deal with tribes we get approval for the amount the patient wants to spend and order the glasses. The tribes send the check to pay for them on their own schedule. The patient does not get the glasses until the check from the tribe is in the office. This is our own office policy since we have had trouble in the past with tribes not paying when they said they would. Is it really discrimination? I see that word thrown around a lot and I'm not sure it always applies. I would need a lot more information about what has gone on here before I start tossing around that word. If these offices don't want to do what they have to to get payment from whatever government agency couldn't they just tell her they don't accept that form of payment/insurance/whatever you want to call it? There are a few insurances, organizations and tribes that my office doesn't deal with simply because it's too difficult and/or they are sketchy on payment. We have the ability to tell the patient "sorry we don't accept xyz" It is her word against their's. She did take someone with her to order her glasses who would be witnesses to the treatment she received. Can she prove she ordered the glasses? I don't know. They can and may deny it. I can't just sit here and pretend it didn't happen. |
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Post by penny on Aug 25, 2015 1:58:47 GMT
What is First Nations? There must be some other peas that don't know either. Thanks First Nations is the same/similar to Native American... I'm not American so I'm not completely sure the exact definition of Native American, but it's close to that... |
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Post by penny on Aug 25, 2015 2:07:52 GMT
As someone who worked in optometrist offices about ten years ago, you might want to ask them when they called, when it was approved, when the order was submitted, etc... Get your info before making accusations... It's hard to get info after you've accused people and you want to be sure you're right... Different offices have different ordering schedules, and the person at the counter might not know them or be aware... Try to talk to the manager... Again, I worked in offices a decade ago, but submitting requests (whether for First Nations or low income or any government program), was a pain... You'd call for an update and they'd say they didn't have it, so you'd send it in again... You'd call to confirm they received it and the person who could do that wasn't there, or they weren't able to check, or any other problem... Make sure you ask/know how the process is supposed to work, and how the office processes things... We would place certain orders once a week, and we would hold certain orders when they came in until we received payment/confirmation of payment by the program... Unfortunately, if we dispensed glasses and didn't get paid by the program it came out of the doctor's pocket, and without the glasses as physical proof it was very hard (as in so lengthily a process it would cost more than the glasses), to prove that product had been made/dispensed... I hope it's not discrimination... I hate that it could be so pervasive that she'd experience it in two offices...  |
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Aug 25, 2015 2:08:59 GMT
Never attribute to malice that which you can attribute to stupidity.
So far, all I see is incompetence, not discrimination. Without knowing what kind of stores she's been at to get her glasses, my escalation would be to a corporate office or management type, not the government.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,218
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Post by Peamac on Aug 25, 2015 2:17:24 GMT
Was she given any kind of receipt or record from the eyeglass place that the glasses were ordered? Or was she just sent away with a "we'll call you when they come in"?
Regardless, it sounds like the system needs fixing.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 5:17:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 2:32:29 GMT
Was she given any kind of receipt or record from the eyeglass place that the glasses were ordered? Or was she just sent away with a "we'll call you when they come in"? Regardless, it sounds like the system needs fixing. Thank you for asking that. They did say, "they will call when they are done". They do all their own dispensing in house. I will talk to her and see what she says. She is not a self-advocating person. She is not mean, stupid nor has a nasty bone in her body. She knows they aren't treating her right, though. I will see what I can do to help her. The bottom line is, she can't see properly as she needs new glasses. |
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Aug 25, 2015 7:07:47 GMT
Never attribute to malice that which you can attribute to stupidity. So far, all I see is incompetence, not discrimination. Without knowing what kind of stores she's been at to get her glasses, my escalation would be to a corporate office or management type, not the government. My thoughts exactly. Before you charge in, walk in with her and very nicely ask for help with the confusion. Have you talked to the store? You may be able to clear it up quickly. If not, you will have gathered more info for your complaint e mail. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 7:20:19 GMT
She was quite upset for her personality. Normally Mary is very easy going and a peace loving kind of person. She isn't the type of person to stand up and say this is wrong (fist in the air). She will tell you it is wrong, though, and tell you why without blaming anyone.
She is not a difficult person. Even when she gets excited about something it barely reaches a 5 on the excitement elevation scale. (Inside she must be jumping up and down).
The ball is in her court. She knows I will advocate for her and I will get my proofreading expert to go over the email before she sends it.
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Aug 25, 2015 7:33:58 GMT
She was quite upset for her personality. Normally Mary is very easy going and a peace loving kind of person. She isn't the type of person to stand up and say this is wrong (fist in the air). She will tell you it is wrong, though, and tell you why without blaming anyone. She is not a difficult person. Even when she gets excited about something it barely reaches a 5 on the excitement elevation scale. (Inside she must be jumping up and down). The ball is in her court. She knows I will advocate for her and I will get my proofreading expert to go over the email before she sends it. Even more reason to try to resolve it locally, if possible, before escalating to an email complaint that matches YOUR personality more than hers. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 7:35:58 GMT
Yup! She knows how to get ahold of me and will when she is ready. I hope she pursues something from it, though. She deserves to be treated better than she was.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 5:17:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 14:01:12 GMT
Does she have anyone in a similar situation who wears glasses who can refer to a place that offers good customer service and is familiar with the FN process?
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luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,067
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Post by luckyexwife on Aug 25, 2015 14:05:49 GMT
What is the actual time line? Could it be the process takes longer than she is expecting? If it is discrimination, then something does need to be done, but I think more information is needed.
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