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Post by KelleeM on Sept 19, 2015 13:35:16 GMT
If employee S takes employee G's badge (with G's consent) and punches employee G back from lunch while he is actually outside still eating lunch what should the repercussions be? Would it matter if either employee S or employee G had written and/or verbal warnings for other infractions? Also, would it matter if, when confronted, one lied about the incident and one told the truth?
I'll come back and let you know what happened after I get some responses.
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Post by its me mg on Sept 19, 2015 13:35:30 GMT
termination. you cannot edit time clock punches for other people or clock in/out on behalf of others.
ETA: It is not fair that employee G expects to be paid for finishing his break.
If the infractions were regarding honesty and integrity, then I would definitely be more apt to hold them even more accountable.
But that's grounds for termination.
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MsKnit
Pearl Clutcher
RefuPea #1406
Posts: 2,648
Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on Sept 19, 2015 13:36:26 GMT
I think that is an offense that warrants being fired at my husband's place of employment.
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Sept 19, 2015 13:37:03 GMT
Theft. Likely termination, but I suppose it depends on if anyone is a relative or friend of management.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 23:54:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 13:39:02 GMT
In my place of work, immediate termination because it is "stealing time" from the clock.
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keithurbanlovinpea
Pearl Clutcher
Flowing with the go...
Posts: 4,275 
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Post by keithurbanlovinpea on Sept 19, 2015 13:47:34 GMT
In my place of work, immediate termination because it is "stealing time" from the clock.  It is clearly stated in our employee manual that this is a terminable offense. I have indeed fired people for this very thing. |
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Post by KelleeM on Sept 19, 2015 13:48:49 GMT
Termination for both employees, correct?
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Post by Really Red on Sept 19, 2015 13:50:46 GMT
I'm not an HR pea, but that is what I hope happened!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 23:54:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 13:53:42 GMT
Termination for both employees, correct? Yes, for the one punching the clock for the one still on break and the one stealing the time. It is also in our handbook, so it is a no brainer. |
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Post by KelleeM on Sept 19, 2015 14:02:09 GMT
I thought it was a no brainer as well. I guess where I work it wasn't  Employee S had issues with tardiness and taking excessive time off (I only know this from observation...I sit about 10 feet from the time clock closest to the door to our area where everyone in our room punches in and I know that as soon as she had accrued 8 hours PTO she took a day off). She also did a job that didn't require a lot of skill or training. She had been with the company about 8 years. And she lied (heresay on my part) about what happened when she was confronted by management. Employee G had no issues that I know of with the exception of walking out once after a verbal altercation with his supervisor about 3 years ago. He's been with the company about 8 years as well. His job requires quite a bit of training and replacing him would be rather inconvenient to management. He told the truth when he was confronted by management. Employee S was terminated. Employee G was suspended for one week. G was scheduled for two weeks vacation beginning the day after the decision was made so he's been out but management came in and told us that S no longer works there and G will be back in three weeks. As you can imagine there is a lot of talk about the whole situation and many people are really angry that G wasn't terminated as well. Not that anyone really wants to see someone lose their job but everyone knows that this is a fire-able offense. I'm curious to see how G is treated when he returns to work. |
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Post by magentapea on Sept 19, 2015 14:03:10 GMT
I agree with everyone else - termination for both employees.
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Post by Suziee2 on Sept 19, 2015 14:30:34 GMT
I thought it was a no brainer as well. I guess where I work it wasn't Employee S had issues with tardiness and taking excessive time off (I only know this from observation...I sit about 10 feet from the time clock closest to the door to our area where everyone in our room punches in and I know that as soon as she had accrued 8 hours PTO she took a day off). She also did a job that didn't require a lot of skill or training. She had been with the company about 8 years. And she lied (heresay on my part) about what happened when she was confronted by management. Employee G had no issues that I know of with the exception of walking out once after a verbal altercation with his supervisor about 3 years ago. He's been with the company about 8 years as well. His job requires quite a bit of training and replacing him would be rather inconvenient to management. He told the truth when he was confronted by management. Employee S was terminated. Employee G was suspended for one week. G was scheduled for two weeks vacation beginning the day after the decision was made so he's been out but management came in and told us that S no longer works there and G will be back in three weeks. As you can imagine there is a lot of talk about the whole situation and many people are really angry that G wasn't terminated as well. Not that anyone really wants to see someone lose their job but everyone knows that this is a fire-able offense. I'm curious to see how G is treated when he returns to work. Wow, that doesn't seem fair to me. Both would be terminated where I work, as indicated in our employee handbook. However, we just went to using a timeclock where fingerprint readers are used, so that eliminates the problem. |
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Post by christine58 on Sept 19, 2015 14:49:03 GMT
If employee S takes employee G's badge (with G's consent) and punches employee G back from lunch while he is actually outside still eating lunch what should the repercussions be? Would it matter if either employee S or employee G had written and/or verbal warnings for other infractions? Also, would it matter if, when confronted, one lied about the incident and one told the truth? I'll come back and let you know what happened after I get some responses. G would be fired....S would be written up--UNLESS S has done this before..they would both be gone. It's a theft of services. ETA: any thoughts that maybe the discipline was different due to their "importance" to the company?? |
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 23:54:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 15:17:50 GMT
That would be a violation of our Code of Ethics for both employees and would result in termination for both parties.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 23:54:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 15:30:41 GMT
We've had it happen and have not terminated either employee but have warned them, mostly because there are times we can't lose two employees at once due to staffing.
That said, we also would take into account prior actions, warnings, behavior, etc. And actually being honest about it is huge. I hate lying liars who lie. That will get you terminated sooner than actually another other bad performance or behavior.
But it is truly up to the employer. They don't have to be "fair" and terminate both. Obviously one is more highly regarded. And while the employee not terminated is on vacation, it is possibly the vacation will be an unpaid suspension as part of the discipline. It could be and no one would know but HR/payroll and the employee himself.
If they had equal positions/value, then yes, I would say both should be terminated. But it doesn't sound like that is the case.
It is only illegal if they made the decision based on a protected characteristic such as race, religion, etc but it sounds like they made it based on job position.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Sept 19, 2015 15:33:49 GMT
I thought it was a no brainer as well. I guess where I work it wasn't Employee S had issues with tardiness and taking excessive time off (I only know this from observation...I sit about 10 feet from the time clock closest to the door to our area where everyone in our room punches in and I know that as soon as she had accrued 8 hours PTO she took a day off). She also did a job that didn't require a lot of skill or training. She had been with the company about 8 years. And she lied (heresay on my part) about what happened when she was confronted by management. Employee G had no issues that I know of with the exception of walking out once after a verbal altercation with his supervisor about 3 years ago. He's been with the company about 8 years as well. His job requires quite a bit of training and replacing him would be rather inconvenient to management. He told the truth when he was confronted by management. Employee S was terminated. Employee G was suspended for one week. G was scheduled for two weeks vacation beginning the day after the decision was made so he's been out but management came in and told us that S no longer works there and G will be back in three weeks. As you can imagine there is a lot of talk about the whole situation and many people are really angry that G wasn't terminated as well. Not that anyone really wants to see someone lose their job but everyone knows that this is a fire-able offense. I'm curious to see how G is treated when he returns to work. Did management tell you what happened? Or do you know because you sit by the time clock? Maybe there were other circumstances you are unaware of? Maybe G didn't ask S to time them back in or some thing along those lines? |
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smginaz Suzy
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Je suis desole.
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Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Sept 19, 2015 16:30:14 GMT
Here's the thing. People are human. Sometimes people make shitty decisions and screw up.
When I am investigating, I look for a few things:
-Did something occur? Do I have facts to support what occurred?
-Did something occur that violates policy?
-If policy was violated, what consequence should occur so that the violation does not occur again?
From there, I weigh accountability and credibility.
The person who has a history of no reliability and does not take ownership for a shitty choice=I am probably done. You can't fix what you don't own. Bye Felicia.
The person who has a history of reliability, decent performance, and takes accountability? I have more trust that it was a one-time, really stupid thing, and that it is fixable. Yeah, pretty serious consequence=suspension, etc.
But depending on the company culture, sometimes it is also the right thing to give someone a 2nd chance. That has to go hand in hand with the person admitting they screwed up and being clear about recognizing that their ass is gone should anything stupid happen again.
I am not opposed to both people being termed, but I am saying there are decent reasons and circumstances why that is not always the fairest outcome either. I want people to get credit for their whole person, not just one little slice or moment.
And I would not be taking into consideration a position, title, difficulty to fill, staffing shortage, etc. Those, to me, have nothing to do with a recommendation.
I will say it is always a challenge to be armchair quarterbacked. Other people are always going to speculate, and of course, those opinions are based entirely upon what I would describe as "limited data". You don't have the whole picture, you just do not have access to the entire story, so your opinion is always faulty because it is based on perception, rumor, and random observations.
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It is clearly stated in our employee manual that this is a terminable offense. I have indeed fired people for this very thing.
