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Post by deekaye on Nov 2, 2015 18:08:23 GMT
You aren't overreacting. We all know at least one person who will take advantage, and I think that's what this person is like. Make it clear that this is a family event, children welcome as long as accompanied by family.
My biggest concern would be the staff member trying to circumvent the system and get your husband to sign papers. I would talk to the Pastor. He/She needs to know about this.
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Post by finally~a~mama on Nov 2, 2015 18:15:25 GMT
I don't think you are overreacting either. I think your DH needs to speak to the pastor asap and let him/her know what is going on. I'd make the game night adult only or minors under 16 must be accompanied by a parent/guardian. That woman is totally wanting to use this for free babysitting. Let her do it once and she'll be dropping her kid off every week. Then others will think it's okay too. Before you know it game night will be free babysitting night. If the pastor or someone really wants children to be able to come I would suggest that a family game night or children's game night be ran as a separate event by other people.
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Post by *sprout* on Nov 2, 2015 18:15:52 GMT
I'll add to the chorus of don't sign it!
If she and the staff member continue to push the issue, I would inform them that unaccompanied minors cannot be attend game night but I would talk to church staff about hosting a game night for children ages x to y in the future. That way, the current game night stays as it is and the proper checks can be done for a night with unaccompanied minors. The church where I attended MOPS held a game night for tweens and teens. They were a big success.
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Post by auntkelly on Nov 2, 2015 18:18:37 GMT
Honestly, I wouldn't even advertise "children welcome accompanied by an adult". Because parents might start bringing their kids and letting them run around what sounds more like an adult game night. I get parents bringing children that can entertain themselves in the corner and not interrupt the games, but I can see how it would turn in to a lot more kids that could be disruptive to the adults playing games. At any rate, definitely nip it in the bud, don't sing the CORI, and establish boundaries. I would be annoyed to at this woman being manipulative and angling for free child care. I agree w/ pudgy. I would keep it an "adults only" game night if that is what the others in the group want. I'm sure your church has plenty of child, teen and family activities. I think it's nice to offer some "adults only" activities as well. It doesn't mean your group is "anti-kid."
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Post by Zee on Nov 2, 2015 18:20:35 GMT
I would not use the paperwork/check as an excuse. Instead, make it clear that it is adult game night and any children attending must be accompanied by an adult at all times.
You're not running a babysitting service.
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~Susan~
Pearl Clutcher
You need to check your boobs, mine tried to kill me!!!
Posts: 3,258
Jul 6, 2014 17:25:32 GMT
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Post by ~Susan~ on Nov 2, 2015 18:23:05 GMT
If a child attending the game night has always been contingent on the parent being present, then I would stick with that. I would definitely speak to the pastor and get his input. If he feels like children should be able to attend without their parents, he needs to take responsibility for finding childcare for them.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 2, 2015 18:27:22 GMT
I would not use the paperwork/check as an excuse. Instead, make it clear that it is adult game night and any children attending must be accompanied by an adult at all times. You're not running a babysitting service. I agree. Don't sign the paperwork, but also be upfront. It's not that you're not certified, it's that you DON'T want unaccompanied children at the event. It's okay to want an adult function, it's even okay to exclude children entirely. By giving the paperwork as an excuse, you've given her an avenue to "help" you provide free babysitting for her. If someone else wants to hold a child centric game night - go for it.
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Post by not2peased on Nov 2, 2015 18:32:51 GMT
I would be furious as well-and for all the same reasons you are
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 2, 2015 18:37:19 GMT
OK..I'm going to disagree. HA. IF they have been allowing minors with an adult to an ADULT only game night, what is the differance? What exactly are they doing? at a church game night? that needs an adult there? what would be the differance? KWIM? They should NEVER have allowed kids at adult only game night. So that ship has sailed. That box has been opened, etc, etc They either need to bring it back to no kids at all, or open a seperate night, or room for kids game night. Do they have a kids game night? Sounds like this is needed.
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pudgygroundhog
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Posts: 4,643
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Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Nov 2, 2015 18:42:46 GMT
OK..I'm going to disagree. HA. IF they have been allowing minors with an adult to an ADULT only game night, what is the differance? What exactly are they doing? at a church game night? that needs an adult there? what would be the differance? KWIM? They should NEVER have allowed kids at adult only game night. So that ship has sailed. That box has been opened, etc, etc They either need to bring it back to no kids at all, or open a seperate night, or room for kids game night. Do they have a kids game night? Sounds like this is needed. It's one thing to have children there with a parent present, it's another to drop off your kid expecting free babysitting. This event has not been advertised as a kid's event nor as a "drop your kid off event". I think in the end whoever is running the event needs to state up front what the deal is. Unless it is a "family game night" I would opt for an adult only night. If there is demand, then maybe somebody else can organize another type of game night or arrange for babysitting services in an adjacent room. And to the OP, I wouldn't be worried about looking anti-kid. I think it's fine (and preferred) to have events that are kid friendly and adult only. Some of the other adults might be parents looking for some adult time and being able to play a game without interruption or distraction. I love my kid, but there are times I want to be able to do what I want with other adults.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 19:25:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 18:49:02 GMT
OK..I'm going to disagree. HA. IF they have been allowing minors with an adult to an ADULT only game night, what is the differance? What exactly are they doing? at a church game night? that needs an adult there? what would be the differance? KWIM? They should NEVER have allowed kids at adult only game night. So that ship has sailed. That box has been opened, etc, etc They either need to bring it back to no kids at all, or open a seperate night, or room for kids game night. Do they have a kids game night? Sounds like this is needed. Do you disagree just for the sake of it? The difference would be, the parents wouldn't be there if any issues arose. Injury, toilet issues, stuff they shouldn't expect adults enjoying a night out to deal with.
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eastcoastpea
Prolific Pea
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Jun 27, 2014 13:05:28 GMT
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Post by eastcoastpea on Nov 2, 2015 18:52:01 GMT
I understand where you're coming from OP. Please have the pastor make the rules clear with the congregation.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 2, 2015 18:54:05 GMT
You aren't overreacting. We all know at least one person who will take advantage, and I think that's what this person is like. Make it clear that this is a family event, children welcome as long as accompanied by family. My biggest concern would be the staff member trying to circumvent the system and get your husband to sign papers. I would talk to the Pastor. He/She needs to know about this. How is he trying to circumvent the system? I'm guessing the woman simply asked him to help the husband become certified. That's the problem with using the paperwork as an excuse. For all she knows, you're more than happy to have children at the event, just haven't managed to complete the paperwork, so she was helping you out by having the staff member help complete the background check.
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Loydene
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 8, 2014 16:31:47 GMT
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Post by Loydene on Nov 2, 2015 18:54:51 GMT
In addition to making the point about the authorization -- also include that the intent was for Adult Fellowship --- which should be as right and appropriate in a church setting as children fellowship or young singles fellowship or any other fellowship.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Nov 2, 2015 18:55:31 GMT
OK..I'm going to disagree. HA. IF they have been allowing minors with an adult to an ADULT only game night, what is the differance? What exactly are they doing? at a church game night? that needs an adult there? what would be the differance? KWIM? They should NEVER have allowed kids at adult only game night. So that ship has sailed. That box has been opened, etc, etc They either need to bring it back to no kids at all, or open a seperate night, or room for kids game night. Do they have a kids game night? Sounds like this is needed. Because somebody has to be responsible for the kid and, if a parent isn't there, that would fall to OP's husband.
Having the parent be responsible for the kid - not a problem. Foisting the responsibility onto the OP's husband - problem.
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 19:25:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 19:03:52 GMT
And I'd just add that I would make the rule be a parent in attendance and well-behaved children. You wouldn't (or maybe you would) believe how many members of our gym agree to babysit other people's children and then try to drop them off for our "free with membership" kids care. So that we are the one paying the cost to watch extra children. We have a policy of parent/legal guardian who must stay on premises due to our liability insurance. Not sure what kind of insurance your church has -- they might allow for "drop and runs" for certain things.
To me, it gets back to entitlement. No this parent isn't entitled to drop of DD at an adult activity! I don't know exactly what CORI is, but I agree your DH should just not sign it if he doesn't want to deal with unaccompanied kids (and I don't blame him no matter how great of a kid she might be)
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
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Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Nov 2, 2015 19:08:48 GMT
You are not wrong. Please update us!
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flopsykitty
Full Member
Posts: 180
Jun 26, 2014 18:08:12 GMT
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Post by flopsykitty on Nov 2, 2015 19:15:46 GMT
Okay - thank you for all your thoughts. This has never been advertised as "Adult Only" or "Family", but it was intended to be Adult Only. This woman has only come once before, and brought her child without notifying anyone in advance, but she stayed with her chld, so we didn't make an issue of it. It was clear by the types of games we were playing (Pandemic, Dead of Winter, Arkham Horror) that it was for adults, but it was never outright stated so. No other children have EVER been in attendance. We will correct that mistake, and re-iterate that it is an adult only group. I realize now that it was also my mistake to use not being CORI certified as the reason she should not be at game night. My only excuse was that we got the email at 9 PM the night before the event and, stunned by her stated intention of just dropping her daughter off, kind of panicked. However, I don't feel that the paperwork should have been forced on him with no kind of explanation as to what it meant, or what it did. It was literally, "Here, sign this so I can dump my kid on you." Church employees should know better than that. Also, not telling her child that it was not going to happen, and making my husband be the one to tell her, and therefore, disappoint her, was particularly manipulative and very crappy of her. What I wish my response had been: "I'm sorry, that won't work for us. Game night is an adult only event (18+), and babysitting will not be available." Thanks again for the input. Feel free to continue commenting - I am learning lots!
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flopsykitty
Full Member
Posts: 180
Jun 26, 2014 18:08:12 GMT
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Post by flopsykitty on Nov 2, 2015 19:18:53 GMT
You are not wrong. Please update us! I will. It might be a few days until we can speak to our minister.
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Post by gritzi on Nov 2, 2015 19:58:02 GMT
I wouldn't wait too long to approach your pastor. I'm willing to bet ballsy mom won't wait several days before contacting others in order to bully her way & ensuring you are a babysitting service for her DD! A "woe is me, trying to reconcile, no one to babysit" story w/crocodile tears will garner a lot of sympathy before your concerns are heard.
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Post by JoP on Nov 2, 2015 20:12:46 GMT
Bloody cheek!! I don't think you need to worry about looking as though you don't like children (if anyone thinks that it's their problem!!) but it could be slippery slope for the Games night plus I would not give the woman the satisfaction. Someone needs to speak with her and explain quite clearly the deal here. - gar said it perfectly
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M in Carolina
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Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Nov 2, 2015 20:13:00 GMT
I'd also be concerned about the appearance of a minor child with adults that are not their legal guardians. You could get into a quagmire if the child is in a room with one adult--that opens the door to accusations of impropriety. It's better to not open the door to that at all.
I agree with nipping the "free" babysitting in the bud. These bully parents are the ones who have kids that can't entertain themselves, want to play the adult games, make everyone crazy and complain the whole time. Having a parent there can eliminate all that.
I also wonder what your church's liability insurance would say about having minors present without their parents or under the guidance of church leadership that has been vetted by the police.
I'm friends with a woman who helps survivors of child abuse and have heard so many stories of rape and molestation in churches. There are also cases where church leaders are innocent but have their ministries ruined because of accusations.
I don't think you're overreacting at all.
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Post by Patter on Nov 2, 2015 21:12:00 GMT
I'd also be concerned about the appearance of a minor child with adults that are not their legal guardians. You could get into a quagmire if the child is in a room with one adult--that opens the door to accusations of impropriety. It's better to not open the door to that at all. I agree with nipping the "free" babysitting in the bud. These bully parents are the ones who have kids that can't entertain themselves, want to play the adult games, make everyone crazy and complain the whole time. Having a parent there can eliminate all that. I also wonder what your church's liability insurance would say about having minors present without their parents or under the guidance of church leadership that has been vetted by the police. I'm friends with a woman who helps survivors of child abuse and have heard so many stories of rape and molestation in churches. There are also cases where church leaders are innocent but have their ministries ruined because of accusations. I don't think you're overreacting at all. Exactly! I was in charge of Children's Ministries at our church. I had 18 staff members that worked for me. We had a huge program. Anywya, one thing I changed as soon as I was hired was that NO child would ever be left with one staff member or volunteer. There would always be two staff members working even if just one child was in childcare for that evening. Accusations could be made and there could be a lot of trouble having just one staff member and one child.
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Post by scrapsuzy on Nov 2, 2015 21:34:21 GMT
As an adult who would enjoy attending a board game event, I just have to say that I would not want kids there, at all. Not even teenagers. I don't think you are over-reacting, but I would also start making it clear that this is an 18& up event.
Now I'm wondering how to get something similar started in my area. I love to play board games! Don't have a church I attend regularly, but still think this would be a fun thing to do!
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Post by anonrefugee on Nov 2, 2015 21:49:13 GMT
In my experience churches tend to focus on family activities first, daytime adult activities (women's groups) second, and mixed adult evening activities last. If at all.
I'd take stance the church is losing an outreach opportunity if they turn it into yet another kid or family event.
If they want a single parent with baby-sitting event, let it be on another evening.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 2, 2015 22:08:17 GMT
Don't do it. I did work & programs for a church that did have all the appropriate training related to what is similar to what you are speaking of. Our church employed the program--was a stickler for doing it as the main pastoral minister watched and saw a good friend from another church be accused of something by a young teen girl--it never happened (friend was not on the campus when she claimed it happened) in the end he was cleared but he is not the same and people do not look at him the same either.
I am all for 100% employing these programs however, their main fault is that once you are scrutinized, true or not, you are guilty or people think that something had to happen. There is no erasing all that in the process for the truth.
It happened that the teen's parents were doing through a divorce and she was attention seeking.
I know that this is not likely the majority of the cases, I only mention it because the OP has inklings about it and being uncomfortable !
I also called our pastor when I found out that there was a young teen girl messaging an adult male on youth group staff-again parents in the midst of a not nice divorce, she wanted to go live with the youth group adult (married guy). The youth group adult did not want to get the girl in trouble so he didn't want to say anything!!!
I can make your life hell.
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 19:25:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 22:15:07 GMT
Like everyone else - I think you are not overreacting and I also think that it should be an 18 and over game night due to the types of games being played (in addition to the fact that - dang it, why can't adults just have a night to themselves without someone dragging children along)
I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by speaking to the Pastor. If it's to let him know what has happened, fine. But if you are seeking his input, then you could be opening a can of worms if he feels it should be accompanied children or worse yet, unaccompanied with the proper paperwork. I would be willing to bet that if a vote was taken among those that attend, it would be to keep the event adults only.
Last but not least, I would prepare myself the next time you see this woman and if it comes up, have a whole list of church family friendly events that she and her daughter might want to attend together. That will shut down the "my daughter just wants to do activities" and put it back in her court. Of course, it's obvious she just wanted free babysitting, but she won't really be able to defend her position that there's nothing for her daughter to do if you strike first with what the church does offer.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Nov 2, 2015 22:25:03 GMT
It's intended as an adult game night meaning if I were a regular and kids started showing up then it totally changes the dynamic. Same at crops. I love kids but there are times I want to get away and have adult time. I would stop attending if it changed into a kids game night. I would talk to the pastor and quick. I agree she just wants free babysitting.
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Post by deekaye on Nov 2, 2015 22:51:11 GMT
You aren't overreacting. We all know at least one person who will take advantage, and I think that's what this person is like. Make it clear that this is a family event, children welcome as long as accompanied by family. My biggest concern would be the staff member trying to circumvent the system and get your husband to sign papers. I would talk to the Pastor. He/She needs to know about this. How is he trying to circumvent the system? I'm guessing the woman simply asked him to help the husband become certified. That's the problem with using the paperwork as an excuse. For all she knows, you're more than happy to have children at the event, just haven't managed to complete the paperwork, so she was helping you out by having the staff member help complete the background check. <Sigh> I knew as I was typing the word "circumvent" that somebody would have an issue with this.... I should have been clearer. I just meant that I would be concerned about the staff member who attempted to push the husband to sign the paperwork. It doesn't seem like it was being done in the correct way. And this, posted by the OP... " However, I don't feel that the paperwork should have been forced on him with no kind of explanation as to what it meant, or what it did. It was literally, "Here, sign this so I can dump my kid on you." Church employees should know better than that."
...is what I was trying to say.
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Post by hop2 on Nov 2, 2015 23:01:15 GMT
I'm going to say, your DH is busy enough RUNNING game night if your church wants to accommodate unaccompanied minors OR accommodate minors so adults can play, then the church should find an additional adult volunteer to watch them. It is UNFAIR to expect your DH to be responsible for children AND run game night. All it takes is one moment for something to happen, one moment that your DH has another responsibility. Totally not fair.
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