elainebenis
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Jul 3, 2014 23:26:11 GMT
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Post by elainebenis on Mar 23, 2016 17:46:57 GMT
Wait. I thought that a President in his 4th year was a "lame duck" and therefor must stop presidentin' until will of the people or whatever. I would think you'd be happy about this.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Mar 23, 2016 18:11:19 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared. And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom. As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job. Interesting that Joy Bahar just brought up Bush reading a book on The View when they were talking about Obama being at the baseball game
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Post by leftturnonly on Mar 23, 2016 18:16:55 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared. And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom. As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job. Interesting that Joy Bahar just brought up Bush reading a book on The View when they were talking about Obama being at the baseball game Far be it from anyone to accuse Joy Bahar of vitriol.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Mar 23, 2016 18:17:50 GMT
Interesting that Joy Bahar just brought up Bush reading a book on The View when they were talking about Obama being at the baseball game Far be it from anyone to accuse Joy Bahar of vitriol. LOL
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Post by mari on Mar 23, 2016 18:48:52 GMT
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Mar 23, 2016 18:49:33 GMT
I'm so confused at what you want Obama to do? He can't go do his job because something else might happen? To pretend that any of our Presidents don't work constantly is such a tired and useless argument. Seriously. What do you want him to do? What does it matter how Bush was treated or reacted to? Or how many vacations they take or any of that shit!
What if we took all of this useless political mudslinging and worked together to actually improve the politics in this country?
This country is going to hell in a handbasket because it's people are discussing a wave at a baseball game instead of anything else. We sound like a bunch of uneducated dumbasses.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 13:00:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 19:04:47 GMT
I'm so confused at what you want Obama to do? He can't go do his job because something else might happen? To pretend that any of our Presidents don't work constantly is such a tired and useless argument. Seriously. What do you want him to do? What does it matter how Bush was treated or reacted to? Or how many vacations they take or any of that shit! What if we took all of this useless political mudslinging and worked together to actually improve the politics in this country? This country is going to hell in a handbasket because it's people are discussing a wave at a baseball game instead of anything else. We sound like a bunch of uneducated dumbasses. I'm sorry. You make too much sense. Please leave. Kidding. If I could, I would like this post a million times!
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Post by Merge on Mar 23, 2016 19:07:46 GMT
I'm so confused at what you want Obama to do? He can't go do his job because something else might happen? To pretend that any of our Presidents don't work constantly is such a tired and useless argument. Seriously. What do you want him to do? What does it matter how Bush was treated or reacted to? Or how many vacations they take or any of that shit! What if we took all of this useless political mudslinging and worked together to actually improve the politics in this country? This country is going to hell in a handbasket because it's people are discussing a wave at a baseball game instead of anything else. We sound like a bunch of uneducated dumbasses. Totally agree. WTF, people? I am so sick of being accused of all the historical dumbassery of people who share my current political leanings going back to before I was even born, much less able to vote. "Where was the outrage when this happened?" "Where is the outrage now?" Dude, I don't know. I have trouble remembering what I ate for breakfast this morning. You want me to be able to discuss the fine points of who said what in 2001? I think reasonable people judge the outrage-worthiness of each case on its current individual context rather than looking to the past to decide whether outrage is a suitable response now. I don't know. Maybe that's just me.
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Post by KiwiJo on Mar 23, 2016 19:08:08 GMT
............Yes, I know the attack didn't happen in our country. But aren't we an international community? Aren't we more connected to the rest of the world more now than we were 15 yrs ago? Isn't the threat of terrorism at a much higher level for the world community than it was 15 yrs ago? Shouldn't there have been a more appropriate reaction from our current President to the continued acts of terror that have not only hit us at home, but are impacting our European friends? ......... As you say, we are more connected to the rest of the world now - so what could Mr Obama have accomplished by returning to his office, that he couldn't accomplish from Cuba? What do you think he should have done? Why would speaking during a press conference for longer than he did, make any difference? What should he have said, that he didn't say during his speech? What could he have done if he had returned to his office? Would he handle USA's response to the attacks all by himself, or would others be doing 'stuff' as well? If others would have been doing 'stuff' as well, couldn't they do that 'stuff' even if he is not physically there too?
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Post by moveablefeast on Mar 23, 2016 20:42:34 GMT
It helps if your 72 hours worth of supplies aren't under 20 feet of water, but you know. Bootstraps. People should not have been in New Orleans when Katrina struck. That's the bottom line. The evacuation efforts were extremely ineffective. They were WAY off their game. Other places can and do far better. And with that.... I'm going to exit talking about Katrina. I am in no way neutral and I don't need to get all worked up about something that happened 10 1/2 years ago right now. You know, that's fair - I'm not neutral either and I still get fired up about it. I was a relief worker and I saw stuff that made me so proud to be a human being, and stuff that made my blood boil. I still have such strong feelings about what I saw there, and the folks who I thought just embodied the best and the worst of the response to the whole situation - and I probably should not engage in debate about it because I get hot under the collar about it even now.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 23, 2016 20:44:38 GMT
Here is my take on the situation. I think our President was tacky and tasteless to make his comments about Brussels while at a baseball game. He does an interview on ESPN for goodness sakes...not the best world news source. He spends less than a minute offering his thoughts and prayers and then goes back to the business of doing the wave with a communist dictator while smiling and having the time of his life. This incident wouldn't really be a blip on my radar except that this is his MO. He spends a minute out of his day to comment on the brutal beheading of an American citizen then hits the links with some sports star (can't remember which one), we lose 4 Americans including the Ambassador and he flies out to a fund raiser in Vegas the morning of the incident, his lack of response to the Paris terrorist attack just shows me how either out of touch he is or how little he cares about what is happening in the world. It is as much about so called optics as it is about the symbolism. I dunno, I think he lacked any kind of awareness at all about the state world right now and I guess I just don't get the pass he gets from many that support him (including the media). Yes, papercrafteradvocate, you are correct. I think this trip wasn't in the best interest of the US and so that does color my judgement which is why I mentioned it. I will counter that by saying there are many that can't seem to admit that President Obama might have made an error in judgement by staying at the baseball game. Read my other post--I don't think ANYONE has a clue as to why a decision is made regarding protocol on how the president reacts to these types of events. I'm speaking of ANY president. It's too easy for us to sit back and judge them, scrutinizing flawed and biased media, he said she said, differing opinions. Everyone has an opinion on these things and when doing so, are often ill informed (by media outlets, because we really don't have first hand information). It's your opinion, you're entitled to it, just as anyone else has theirs. To you, the current president "gets a free pass" where many others may believe that this president gets overly criticized for every single thing.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 23, 2016 20:51:42 GMT
Here is my take on the situation. I think our President was tacky and tasteless to make his comments about Brussels while at a baseball game. He does an interview on ESPN for goodness sakes...not the best world news source. He spends less than a minute offering his thoughts and prayers and then goes back to the business of doing the wave with a communist dictator while smiling and having the time of his life. This incident wouldn't really be a blip on my radar except that this is his MO. He spends a minute out of his day to comment on the brutal beheading of an American citizen then hits the links with some sports star (can't remember which one), we lose 4 Americans including the Ambassador and he flies out to a fund raiser in Vegas the morning of the incident, his lack of response to the Paris terrorist attack just shows me how either out of touch he is or how little he cares about what is happening in the world. It is as much about so called optics as it is about the symbolism. I dunno, I think he lacked any kind of awareness at all about the state world right now and I guess I just don't get the pass he gets from many that support him (including the media). Yes, papercrafteradvocate, you are correct. I think this trip wasn't in the best interest of the US and so that does color my judgement which is why I mentioned it. I will counter that by saying there are many that can't seem to admit that President Obama might have made an error in judgement by staying at the baseball game. You realize that ESPN is a sports media outlet, and they were at a ballgame, the reporter was there, most likely to just chat about sports for a minute and NOT be an interview about a bombing per se? I'm sure that reporter tossed all his original questions out the window once news of the bombing in Brussels happened. The alternative? President Obama leaves the event, then gets heavily criticized for doing so, his naysayers commenting on the cost of the trip, taxpayer expense, he really didn't care about Cuba, blah, blah, blah. Or that they allow a hoard of other reporters in to talk about the bombing and disrupts the game. He'd be crucified for that too! He is just not gonna win with those who don't like him, plain and simple!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 23, 2016 21:01:04 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared. And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom. As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job. Interesting that Joy Bahar just brought up Bush reading a book on The View when they were talking about Obama being at the baseball game Maybe Joy is a RefuPea !! Lol
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Mar 23, 2016 21:06:25 GMT
If your President had left whatever he was doing, to go and do something (what, exactly?) about the bombings, then there would probably be another thread complaining about him interfering in another country's affairs. He can't win, there will always be people who criticize.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Mar 23, 2016 21:11:48 GMT
One thing Anericans do not completely understand is the absolutely astounding numbers of murderous tragedy that occurs around the world every single day. There is no possible way for our leaders to acknowledge each and every instance. It would be a constant performance. We stop and pause when the victims are in predominately white countries. Our media likes Paris, but it does not like Sudan. What goes down in certain African countries on an hourly basis would render a President immobilized to his podium, unable to take even a bathroom break. This is exactly what I was thinking.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Mar 23, 2016 21:21:00 GMT
I'm pretty sure even if Obama apparated to Brussels and personally kicked some ISIS ass there would be a thread bitching about that too.
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elainebenis
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Jul 3, 2014 23:26:11 GMT
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Post by elainebenis on Mar 23, 2016 21:50:54 GMT
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Mar 23, 2016 22:52:35 GMT
I'm so confused at what you want Obama to do? He can't go do his job because something else might happen? To pretend that any of our Presidents don't work constantly is such a tired and useless argument. Seriously. What do you want him to do? What does it matter how Bush was treated or reacted to? Or how many vacations they take or any of that shit! What if we took all of this useless political mudslinging and worked together to actually improve the politics in this country? This country is going to hell in a handbasket because it's people are discussing a wave at a baseball game instead of anything else. We sound like a bunch of uneducated dumbasses.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 13:00:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 23:57:30 GMT
I guess this may not have even hit my radar had I not specifically recalled how poorly GWB was treated. When people cry that Obama is treated worse than any other President in history, I guess I assume those individuals making that claim were living under a rock during the GWB Presidency. Sure, big difference in thousands of American lives lost and a few dozen European lives. How many lives lost is enough? Is there a magic number? I guess I see the bigger picture that is terrorism and the signal I got from the President was that he's just out of touch. But this is certainly not the first incident where I believe the President is out of touch. Baseball game and doing the wave after a terror attack in Brussels? To me not a whole lot different than golfing after making a short statement on the beheading of James Foley. Even Obama admitted that golfing after the James Foley beheading was bad "optics" so it's something he's certainly been reminded of before. Obama admits "bad optics"I'm glad I'm not the only person who has given this thought. I don't get to watch nearly as much news as I used to...so I've not seen any talk of this in the media. Feel free to disagree. I do still think it's ironic, but I'm allowed to that opinion.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 13:00:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 0:00:00 GMT
I happened to be watching Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning when this exact topic came up. Even Mika Brzezinski just shook her head at Obama's actions on this attack. For those who are unfamiliar with the show, Mika is a dedicated Obama supporter.
Some of you keep asking, well what could he have done? There is a bigger problem than just his reaction over this particular attack. If you watch the segment you will see that the prevailing feeling is that he simply doesn't take terrorism and terrorist attacks seriously enough judging by his reaction/lack of action. (Don't attack me, I'm only reporting what the participants on the show said.)
Rudy Giuliani suggested he should be back in Washington doing a deep review of strategy on fighting ISIS since what he is doing now is clearly not working. We all know more attacks are coming, there is a certain "time is of the essence" element here.
When I heard about how the different countries don't seem to have a method for the free exchange of intelligence information I was thinking that might be an area where the U.S. could offer concrete help. The U.S. was in the exact same situation before 9/11 and we had to learn how to open up those lines of communication.
During the interview Obama said:
" ... but the whole premise of terrorism is to try to disrupt people’s ordinary lives.” I submit that the president does not lead an "ordinary life" by definition and he does need to disrupt his plans for attacks this significant.
I can't isolate the video, you will need to go to the MSN page to see the entire segment.
See...even someone who loves Obama can have an issue with how he handles things.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 13:00:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 0:01:29 GMT
I think the vitriol was only in a Michael Moore documentary but somehow all liberals and the Democratic party get blamed for it. Posts like this are why I am afraid that our system of government is not going to come back from the brink. No, it was all over the Internet. I was really into four different message boards at the time and there were multiple threads, several pages long each, about Bush's immediate reaction. Each one with multiple outside links complaining too. It was much more than one idiot's film. I remember it very well because I was a "parent reader" in my dd's room and had it happened the next week I could have been in the middle of a book at the same time. I wasn't a big bush supporter but still admired how well he held it together at that moment. I too have never watched any of Michael Moore's garbage and I vividly recall the hatred of GWB immediately after the attack and their reaction that he was so dumb to even finish the book he was reading to the school children.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 13:00:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 0:03:06 GMT
Wait. I thought that a President in his 4th year was a "lame duck" and therefor must stop presidentin' until will of the people or whatever. I would think you'd be happy about this. Are you directing this at me?
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Post by compeateropeator on Mar 24, 2016 0:06:20 GMT
Feel free to disagree. I do still think it's ironic, but I'm allowed to that opinion. I guess i am not sure how you are not allowed to have that opinion... did someone tell you you couldn't have that opinion or did they just disagree with your opinion? I am sure there are many that disagree with my opinion, but it is still mine and I do feel that I am allowed to have it. ETA- So so sorry I totally read your response wrong. I am glad you feel that you are allowed to have it.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Mar 24, 2016 0:42:51 GMT
It's not hypocrisy at all, and the two events aren't comparable. For one thing on 9/11 the events were ongoing; this isn't true of the bombings in Brussels. In retrospect, I understand President Bush finishing the book. Does scale matter? Probably. Way more people died on 9/11. Should it matter? I honestly don't know.
And let's be real: there are bombings and terrorist attacks and innocent people killed every day somewhere in the world. Normal life rarely stops for these occurrences, other than for those directly affected. And I think that's the way it has to be, or how would we keep on living in a world where violence occurs all the time? I guess I don't know what is expected of The President. I don't think being horrified at a terrorist attack is completely at odds with going to a baseball game and appearing to enjoy it. I think this is real life, where sadness and happiness, tragedy and joy coexist.
Just my two cents.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Mar 24, 2016 0:49:40 GMT
I will have to respectfully disagree with the majority of posters. I remember the absolute vitriol aimed at W after 9/11 for his immediate reaction to the terrorist attack. It was completely mind boggling to me. While comparing Brussels to 9/11 might be a stretch, I see Genny's point. I also think that the President yucking it up at a baseball game in Communist Cuba distasteful, but I also don't agree with the Cuban nation bonding deal so there's that. I guess we all remember things differently. I remember Bush being praised for his actions in the wake of 9/11. I hated him at the time (bitter over the 2000 election) and I thought, even then, he did a great job. I don't remember the vitriol starting until he decided to go to war in Iran (but remember overwhelming support for going to war in Afghanistan).
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 24, 2016 2:13:55 GMT
I guess this may not have even hit my radar had I not specifically recalled how poorly GWB was treated. When people cry that Obama is treated worse than any other President in history, I guess I assume those individuals making that claim were living under a rock during the GWB Presidency. Sure, big difference in thousands of American lives lost and a few dozen European lives. How many lives lost is enough? Is there a magic number? I guess I see the bigger picture that is terrorism and the signal I got from the President was that he's just out of touch. But this is certainly not the first incident where I believe the President is out of touch. Baseball game and doing the wave after a terror attack in Brussels? To me not a whole lot different than golfing after making a short statement on the beheading of James Foley. Even Obama admitted that golfing after the James Foley beheading was bad "optics" so it's something he's certainly been reminded of before. Obama admits "bad optics"I'm glad I'm not the only person who has given this thought. I don't get to watch nearly as much news as I used to...so I've not seen any talk of this in the media. Feel free to disagree. I do still think it's ironic, but I'm allowed to that opinion. It could just be that some of those who you think were outraged then have changed. Matured. Grown old, see the world differently. Our US was different 10 years ago. Social media was just getting started. You're going back more than 10 years, I'm sure people were different then--heck, I voted for younger Bush the 2nd time around (and solely because how he handled/spoke after 9/11). I don't vote party line, never have in all my years of voting. I do like and dislike candidates. I didn't get my panties in a wad about our sitting president finishing a children's book, nor am I getting mine all bunched up this time.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 24, 2016 2:16:17 GMT
Feel free to disagree. I do still think it's ironic, but I'm allowed to that opinion. I guess i am not sure how you are not allowed to have that opinion... did someone tell you you couldn't have that opinion or did they just disagree with your opinion? I am sure there are many that disagree with my opinion, but it is still mine and I do feel that I am allowed to have it. ETA- So so sorry I totally read your response wrong. I am glad you feel that you are allowed to have it. I was also thinking this too. It sounds like she wants those who don't find it panty bunching crazy to just admit that the president is wrong ! But then they would be allowed their opinions, right?
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,979
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Mar 24, 2016 3:15:27 GMT
Here is my take on the situation. I think our President was tacky and tasteless to make his comments about Brussels while at a baseball game. He does an interview on ESPN for goodness sakes...not the best world news source. He spends less than a minute offering his thoughts and prayers and then goes back to the business of doing the wave with a communist dictator while smiling and having the time of his life. This incident wouldn't really be a blip on my radar except that this is his MO. He spends a minute out of his day to comment on the brutal beheading of an American citizen then hits the links with some sports star (can't remember which one), we lose 4 Americans including the Ambassador and he flies out to a fund raiser in Vegas the morning of the incident, his lack of response to the Paris terrorist attack just shows me how either out of touch he is or how little he cares about what is happening in the world. It is as much about so called optics as it is about the symbolism. I dunno, I think he lacked any kind of awareness at all about the state world right now and I guess I just don't get the pass he gets from many that support him (including the media). Yes, papercrafteradvocate, you are correct. I think this trip wasn't in the best interest of the US and so that does color my judgement which is why I mentioned it. I will counter that by saying there are many that can't seem to admit that President Obama might have made an error in judgement by staying at the baseball game. You realize that ESPN is a sports media outlet, and they were at a ballgame, the reporter was there, most likely to just chat about sports for a minute and NOT be an interview about a bombing per se? I'm sure that reporter tossed all his original questions out the window once news of the bombing in Brussels happened. The alternative? President Obama leaves the event, then gets heavily criticized for doing so, his naysayers commenting on the cost of the trip, taxpayer expense, he really didn't care about Cuba, blah, blah, blah. Or that they allow a hoard of other reporters in to talk about the bombing and disrupts the game. He'd be crucified for that too! He is just not gonna win with those who don't like him, plain and simple! Exactly! It's not like he had access to the press to the same extent he would in DC. He was in Cuba after all--not exactly home of the free press. The ESPN interview most likely was arranged weeks ago with strict limitations on how it would be handled. I can't see the Cuban government setting up an impromptu press conference for a U.S. president to address a terrorist attack that did not directly impact the U.S.
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Post by femalebusiness on Mar 24, 2016 3:16:02 GMT
I'm so confused at what you want Obama to do? He can't go do his job because something else might happen? To pretend that any of our Presidents don't work constantly is such a tired and useless argument. Seriously. What do you want him to do? What does it matter how Bush was treated or reacted to? Or how many vacations they take or any of that shit! What if we took all of this useless political mudslinging and worked together to actually improve the politics in this country? This country is going to hell in a handbasket because it's people are discussing a wave at a baseball game instead of anything else. We sound like a bunch of uneducated dumbasses. Amen sister!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 13:00:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 11:21:40 GMT
I skipped from page 1 to 4 so pardon me if this has been said...
Regardless of what happened in Brussels - I have a real problem with my president sitting and laughing and doing the wave with a known terrorist, responsible for the slaughter of untold numbers of his own citizens, just a day after posing for a picture with that mans co-terrorist buddy looming over his head. They killed blacks and gays and artists and dissidents. Women and children. Castro still holds thousands in prisons. And Obama yucks it up like a schoolboy with him. Cubans fled and died by the thousands to reach our shores, ripping families apart, and Obama just gave them a big fat middle finger.
This trip was nothing but a boot licking political stunt. Obama feels more affinity with Castro than with the American people. I am ashamed of and disgusted by him.
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