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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 11:48:56 GMT
Was thinking about this as I was up and getting ready for work this morning. Getting ready to head out the door, so I will not be back to visit until tonight.
When our nation was attacked on 9/11, the President was at a school reading to a classroom full of young children. I can still vividly see in my mind the expression on his face when Andy Card leaned into him and whispered the news in his ear. The President finished the book, much to the chagrin of those on the left, including many of our left -leaning peas. He then held a press conference of sorts, and then got on Air Force One.
But in the coverage I've seen, I've not seen much outrage from those same people that our current President spoke about the incident for like 90 seconds and went to a baseball game in Cuba where he proceeded to do "the wave".
Yes, I know the attack didn't happen in our country. But aren't we an international community? Aren't we more connected to the rest of the world more now than we were 15 yrs ago? Isn't the threat of terrorism at a much higher level for the world community than it was 15 yrs ago? Shouldn't there have been a more appropriate reaction from our current President to the continued acts of terror that have not only hit us at home, but are impacting our European friends?
I wish I had time to google and post to compare the images. Bush's face vs. Obama doing the wave at a baseball game in Cuba. But it's all I can see in my mind right now.
Stark comparison, but where are those that found such great fault because Bush didn't run out of the room and where are their comments about Obama and the ball game antics?
It's just more of the same hypocrisy.
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Post by AussieMeg on Mar 23, 2016 11:56:06 GMT
I don't think you can compare the 2 events. Thousands of people killed in 3 attacks on your home soil compared to "only" a 34 people in a foreign country where Obama is not expected to take any immediate action. Nope, you can't compare the 2. Sorry.
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craftykitten
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Post by craftykitten on Mar 23, 2016 11:59:21 GMT
I think they are 2 completely different things.
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gsquaredmom
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Post by gsquaredmom on Mar 23, 2016 12:04:40 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared.
And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom.
As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job.
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Nink
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Post by Nink on Mar 23, 2016 12:09:27 GMT
These are two completely different things.
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Post by gulfcoastgirl on Mar 23, 2016 12:12:00 GMT
I find the two events completely unrelated as well.
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Post by anxiousmom on Mar 23, 2016 12:14:05 GMT
I started hearing about this criticism last night. Like others have said, I don't think you can compare the two- it didn't directly impact our citizens and didn't happen on our soil. Mr. Obama had access to substantial amounts of information-he was in contact with his people the whole time. He addressed it during his speech. If the situation had changed, he could have been back in the US in no time (literally-he was in Cuba which is only 90 miles from Florida,) and in Washington within a couple of hours.
He had to outweigh the good he was attempting to do where he was vs. leaving and going home to do ... what? Even as of this morning, other country's leaders aren't doing anything more than what Mr. Obama did yesterday in his speech-condemn the actions.
I am just not sure that we can compare the two events and reactions.
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Post by Kymberlee on Mar 23, 2016 12:28:48 GMT
I will have to respectfully disagree with the majority of posters. I remember the absolute vitriol aimed at W after 9/11 for his immediate reaction to the terrorist attack. It was completely mind boggling to me. While comparing Brussels to 9/11 might be a stretch, I see Genny's point. I also think that the President yucking it up at a baseball game in Communist Cuba distasteful, but I also don't agree with the Cuban nation bonding deal so there's that.
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lindas
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Post by lindas on Mar 23, 2016 12:42:39 GMT
I get the point GaJenny is making. Obama went golfing when James Foley was beheaded, he went golfing the day 6 American soliders were killed after a terrorist attack in Afghanistan. I just don't think he's ever understood the optics associated with being president.
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Post by compeateropeator on Mar 23, 2016 12:45:16 GMT
In my opinion...
It seems that our role in and how we are viewed by the international community only has importance or relevance to some people when it supports their outrage. Is that more of the same hypocrisy?
I also do not think the situations are the same. But I also was not outraged by President Bush finishing his story. Many people (on all sides) are more concerned about winning the "outrage" war than being part of large and diverse country where all can coexist.
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Post by leftturnonly on Mar 23, 2016 12:45:26 GMT
But in the coverage I've seen, I've not seen much outrage from those same people that our current President spoke about the incident for like 90 seconds and went to a baseball game in Cuba where he proceeded to do "the wave". It was less than 60 seconds. I do see a tremendous hypocrisy with the way the different presidents are viewed. It's not so much that the events themselves are different, it's the way the different men handle themselves during these events that is what's notable. |
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sweetpeasmom
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Post by sweetpeasmom on Mar 23, 2016 12:49:28 GMT
I too will disagree with the majority of the posters here. It didn't happen here on our soil. But this is developing into something major. This was an extension of the Paris attacks. We have had tragedy very recently on our soil connected to the people that were responsible for the Paris and Brussels attack (not saying they were responsible for the attack in CA). I think out of respect for our foreign relations, the President should have a) said more than 90 secs worth and b) declined going to the game and got back to the White House to work with those that need to be worked with to do something about this.
As for the criticism of Bush finishing the book, he was children. As to not alarm them, he finished what he was doing and then took a press conference.
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Mar 23, 2016 12:53:06 GMT
I was thinking about this yesterday also. I had seen something on Facebook and did just a little bit of research. He did condemn it right away, but then I read an article on ESPN, I can't find that article anymore, but here is a link to a different article, but the same story. In the original article I saw he also talked about how important sports are and how it can be a peace making tool. I get what he is saying, but in this article it seems like he was kind of blowing it off. Ya know, shit happens but you keep going. I KNOW he was NOT doing that, but that is the feeling I got. I read other articles to get a broader picture of his response. The more I thought about it though I wondered what he should have/ could have done and the only thing I came up with was adding on something to the effect that he gets constant updates of what is happening and if and when he was needed someplace else, he was ready to go. As President I think he has the capacity to multi task. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Mar 23, 2016 12:55:40 GMT
I was thinking about this yesterday also. I had seen something on Facebook and did just a little bit of research. He did condemn it right away, but then I read an article on ESPN, I can't find that article anymore, but here is a link to a different article, but the same story. In the original article I saw he also talked about how important sports are and how it can be a peace making tool. I get what he is saying, but in this article it seems like he was kind of blowing it off. Ya know, shit happens but you keep going. I KNOW he was NOT doing that, but that is the feeling I got. I read other articles to get a broader picture of his response. The more I thought about it though I wondered what he should have/ could have done and the only thing I came up with was adding on something to the effect that he gets constant updates of what is happening and if and when he was needed someplace else, he was ready to go. As President I think he has the capacity to multi task. That is a very reasoned response. I only wish President Bush would have been allowed that. |
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Mar 23, 2016 12:59:47 GMT
I wish I had time to google and post to compare the images. Bush's face vs. Obama doing the wave at a baseball game in Cuba. But it's all I can see in my mind right now. I don't understand comparing Mr. Bush's face the moment he was hearing the news of a domestic event and Mr. Obama's face at a different venue hours after learning of a foreign event. If that's all you can see in your mind right now, fine, but others of us will see those images as false equivalencies. For the record, I was not a fan of Mr. Bush, had no problem with his reaction during 911. Okay, I kinda' winced when he referred to the terrorists as "folks." [Related: I still remember watching a BBC round table discussion the night of 911. The only American on the panel was criticizing the use of "folks," but a British panelist said she just chalked it up to his Texas dialect. At the time I thought it typical that nonAmericans were more forgiving of a US president's behavior than some Americans are. That often seems to be the case in these threads, also, especially when the accusation is possible insensitivity or disrespect shown to the international community.] |
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Mar 23, 2016 13:00:46 GMT
In my opinion... It seems that our role in and how we are viewed by the international community only has importance or relevance to some people when it supports their outrage. Is that more of the same hypocrisy? I also do not think the situations are the same. But I also was not outraged by President Bush finishing his story. Many people (on all sides) are more concerned about winning the "outrage" war than being part of large and diverse country where all can coexist. I agree. I think you nailed it. That being said, being neither a Bush nor Obama supporter, I don't see the two things at all in a similar light. I think Bush staying calm, finishing the story, and then getting up was an appropriate response when dealing with children. They were babies. He did right by them. I think Obama, watching a baseball game and giving the interview to ESPN was a little bit tasteless, though I agree with his points about not giving in to fear, that just sort of smacked of being disrespectful to me. And at a time like this, when our politicians have gone off the deep end, he had to know it would be noticed and it would matter. If he had skipped out on a baseball game, the GOP wouldn't have ammo against him and I don't know that Bernie or Hilary would have had anything to say. I don't think coming back to the US was necessary, but I have to wonder if this didn't just fuel the fire for the GOP campaign. But either way, Obama can't win. So I guess he may as well take in a baseball game and enjoy the down time in more comfy clothes.  |
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Mar 23, 2016 13:10:01 GMT
It's only hypocrisy if the person sees the events as being equivalent. Other than them both being terror attacks, I don't see them as remotely the same. IMO, a terror attack on another country's soil targeted against that foreign country doesn't require immediate action by the US president.
Now, if the Belgian Prime Minister decided to attend a baseball game, or even finish out story-time at a local school before excusing himself to deal with yesterday's attack, I would probably judge his priorities - no hypocrisy involved.
ETA* like raindancer, I'm a fan of neither Obama nor Bush. |
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Post by librarylady on Mar 23, 2016 13:17:54 GMT
I saw on the news that after hearing the news, Obabma contacted the head of state in Belgium and spoke with him and then proceeded with the plans for the day. Additionally he went to Argentina(I think) last night --a stop on the trip also planned.
I see the events as two different things.
I also don't know what could have been accomplished in Washington that he could not/did not do "on the road."
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Post by Darcy Collins on Mar 23, 2016 13:19:31 GMT
Honestly your OP would have been stronger if you'd just left Bush out of it. This incident is in no way comparable to 9/11 - particularly those early hours where we truly had no idea how many planes were in the air and which landmark would be hit next. I think President Obama's heading off to a baseball game and wooping it up while our European allies were dealing with their own terrorist attack was a bit much. I would have appreciated a bit more sensitivity to the people of Brussels - and frankly the greater international community. But by comparing it to 9/11.... that's beyond a reach.
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Post by ahiller on Mar 23, 2016 13:37:43 GMT
I think people making political hay out of his reaction/response to score cheap points is worse than his actual response (I'm looking at you, Fox News).
I don't think these 2 events are comparable. Fwiw, I think GWB handled himself perfectly when he was told about 9-11. I'm not sure exactly what President Obama should have done yesterday. It was an event that happened in another country, he called their dignitaries and I'd imagine, offered whatever support we could give. Beyond that, what should he have done? Sat in a room with the drapes drawn all day? He was on a foreign trip already. And Cuba isn't exactly high on the countries-to-help-us-beat-ISIS list so it's not like he could even hold meetings for the sake of optics. He could have canceled, hopped on his plane and headed home, but to do what? Then people would be bitching that he's a wuss and is afraid of ISIS and is letting them win.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Mar 23, 2016 13:38:28 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared. And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom. As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job. I agree that they cannot be compared but there was a HUGE outcry because he didn't lose his $hit in front of the kids. Lots of snide little jokes (that's the only kind of book he could read, of course he didn't want to put it down) to ridiculous accusations (because he wasn't surprised about the attack - he orchestrated it). I'm sure you didn't participate but I am shocked that you didn't notice - it was a pretty big deal for many. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Mar 23, 2016 13:40:48 GMT
I guess I missed the people who had issues with President Bush's initial response to 9/11. I was watching it (local coverage for us) and had no issues whatsoever with how he reacted. I think I would have been disappointed had he jumped out of his chair screaming and rushing to the door. I always appreciated that his response was more of that of a father tempering tragedy for his children.
They just interviewed Ted Cruz on CNN and among other things, he seems to agree with those who felt that President Obama's response was inappropriate.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Mar 23, 2016 13:51:02 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared. And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom. As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job. I agree that they cannot be compared but there was a HUGE outcry because he didn't lose his $hit in front of the kids. Lots of snide little jokes (that's the only kind of book he could read, of course he didn't want to put it down) to ridiculous accusations (because he wasn't surprised about the attack - he orchestrated it). I'm sure you didn't participate but I am shocked that you didn't notice - it was a pretty big deal for many. I don't recall any outcry because he didn't 'lose his $hit in front of the kids'. I do recall people going off on him for not cutting the whole thing short in order to deal with the crisis. A simple, 'Excuse me, I'm very sorry, but I've got to go' doesn't require the loss of shit. |
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valleyview
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Post by valleyview on Mar 23, 2016 14:01:55 GMT
Barack Obama is President of the United States of America. Until the EU dissolves and its members become states, our president is not in charge of Europe.
Good grief, he was on a diplomatic visit, and there was nothing he was required to do other than complete that trip. I'm sure that the State Department and intelligence communities were in contact with our European allies, but to think that the president needed to man a station seems to be a bit of a stretch.
Let's compare with other countries - where wer the Queen, Justin Trudeau, David Cameron, and Putin? Did any of them rush to Brussels? Remember, our governments are working 24/7, and irregardless of where the president is at any given moment.
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Post by compeateropeator on Mar 23, 2016 14:02:42 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared. And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom. As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job. I agree that they cannot be compared but there was a HUGE outcry because he didn't lose his $hit in front of the kids. Lots of snide little jokes (that's the only kind of book he could read, of course he didn't want to put it down) to ridiculous accusations (because he wasn't surprised about the attack - he orchestrated it). I'm sure you didn't participate but I am shocked that you didn't notice - it was a pretty big deal for many. I am not sure if you are talking about the HUGE outrage from Peas or in general? But for both situations I will say that what I remember is that the majority of the jokes and snide remarks made were done so by that segment of society/the Internet that will always make those remarks. I knew, saw, and read about a lot more people really just being incredibly sad, scared, and just trying to get through their day to day activities without fear taking over...because that is what we had to do. Most were behind the President and tried to come together as a country. I do not remember it being a huge issue for most people. But there will always be some, and the media and Internet certainly magnifies their views. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 14:04:23 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared. And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom. As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job.  Except I do remember Bush being criticized for not leaving immediately and I always thought that was misguided. I thought it was totally appropriate for him to finish the book. |
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rodeomom
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Post by rodeomom on Mar 23, 2016 14:14:53 GMT
The two situations are not comparable.
There is nothing that the President could do or any way he could react that would not have been criticised by Fox news & the republicans.
Bush's reaction was appropriate.
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BarbaraUK
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Post by BarbaraUK on Mar 23, 2016 14:18:24 GMT
Barack Obama is President of the United States of America. Until the EU dissolves and its members become states, our president is not in charge of Europe. Good grief, he was on a diplomatic visit, and there was nothing he was required to do other than complete that trip. I'm sure that the State Department and intelligence communities were in contact with our European allies, but to think that the president needed to man a station seems to be a bit of a stretch. Let's compare with other countries - where wer the Queen, Justin Trudeau, David Cameron, and Putin? Did any of them rush to Brussels? Remember, our governments are working 24/7, and irregardless of where the president is at any given moment. Why on earth would The Queen be involved in this. She is not a political head of the UK Government though she is Head of State. Big difference! She will have been in contact but Belgium has it's own King and Queen! This obviously wasn't reported in the US, and you very obviously didn't follow any of the news reports from international news sources regarding the terrorist attacks in Belgium, but all of those people you mention personally spoke about the terrorist attacks very soon after they occurred at 8.00am European time! As did all the European Heads of Government. Belgium would not have welcomed personal visits from any government adding to the security threat there already. David Cameron, Putin and all other Government leaders on this side of the Atlantic also immediately offered whatever help the Belgians needed as did all the other heads of Government in Europe! The truth is that President Obama was actually one of the last to speak about the terrorist attacks in Belgium though your State Department was in touch earlier. Just to clarify things!  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 14:31:10 GMT
Know the saying "you're not going to please everyone"? Or "damned if you do, damned if you don't"? Republicans hate Democrats. Democrats hate Republicans. People are always going to find stupid shit to get pissy, nasty, or nit-picky over. The way I see it, every President is going to do something I don't like and every President is going to do something I do like. I don't like some of the things Obama has done. I do think he's doing the job to the best of his ability. He was in Cuba to repair relationships, to try to get something good going again. Baseball is a big sport there. I agree with the statement he made - you cannot let the terrorists win. You cannot let them disrupt your plans, your life. That is their goal.
Just because he looked like he was enjoying the game doesn't mean he didn't go back to where ever he was staying and ignored the attacks. What do people want our President to do? We are only aware of what is done in public. We do not know what is happening at the White House behind closed doors. The general public does not know what the DoD or any of the many people in the cabinet are doing. All we see is the public speeches made by Obama. Remember, he is not the only one that makes any decisions.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 23, 2016 14:40:42 GMT
I think the timing was unfortunate. I agree they cannot really be compared. And I don't remember Bush being criticized for not alarming the children. I remember the comments about him staying calm with them. As a left leaning pea who did not like Bush, I was very impressed by his response in that classroom. As for Obama, he is trying to build a relationship with a country that brought us to the brink of nuclear disaster on our soil. Cuba is a risk in our backyard and if baseball helps to cultivate that relationship, I don't have a problem with it. He made a statement appropriate to the circumstances and went on with his job. This exactly. I don't know of anyone who criticized Bush either. I didn't know that there was outrage for not scaring the children when he himself did not have all the details. |
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