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Post by birukitty on May 13, 2016 0:08:38 GMT
I thought after the mess with Michael's a couple of years ago when PINs were stolen that we were safer using debit/credit cards as a credit without using a pin so that's what I've been doing since then. My bank just recently added the chip to our Visa debit/credit card and only a few stores in our city take it as a chip card in the slot in the front-the rest still swipe it as they always have. I'm still using it as a credit as I always have.
Is the new way of thinking now that with the chip cards it's safer to do chip+pin if you use it as a credit?
I don't shop at Walmart. 1. We don't have one here in Annapolis, and the closest one is 35 miles away. 2. I don't like the way they treat their workers and I'd rather not contribute to their wealth.
Debbie in MD.
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Post by lightetc on May 13, 2016 1:25:10 GMT
There is no longer an option to sign in Australia. Pin number for all cards, but most places you can just tap your card to pay for anything under $100.
But I'm pretty sure I can change my pin number via internet banking for all my cards.
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Post by hollymolly on May 13, 2016 2:19:16 GMT
Kroger (at least in my area) is now requiring you to enter a pin when you have a chip card. Their card readers are programmed to not allow you to run it as credit. I have a debit card that was mis-pinned a couple of years ago. No one knows what the pin is. It's not the pin I gave them, I know because it's the one I always use. I guess they couldn't re-pin so they just gave me a new card. I let DS use that card to purchase groceries and other household items. He called me all upset from Kroger one day because he was buying my groceries for the week and they wouldn't let him run it as credit. As I said, no one knows the pin on this card. He didn't have enough money in his own account to cover it, so he had to put everything back. He was furious. He then went to Walmart and bought everything on my list, except for a couple of items that were Kroger-specific. I don't think he will ever shop at Kroger again. I felt pretty bad about it, because the same thing happened to a woman in front of me at Kroger just a few days earlier, and I completely forgot about it. If I had remembered, I would never have sent him to buy my groceries there. You go to your bank, your "home" branch and reset the pin. Should be any easy fix. Should be, but apparently my bank doesn't work like that. It was a replacement for a card that had been cancelled because it had been compromised. It was supposed to be set to my same pin. It was actually a pretty big ordeal, and when I finally got the replacement card, the pin never worked. I took it in to my main branch and they said they didn't have the ability to re-pin it. They may have said it's because it's a VISA debit card, but I might be making that up. Anyway, after going up the chain as far as the regional manager, I had to accept that I was going to have to wait one more week for yet another replacement card. That's the card I use now. I kept the first replacement because it still works as a credit card. ETA: That was a very bad time that I was trying to forget, and now I'm angry at them all over again. They left me stranded in Boston over a weekend with no way to access my money. Then the runaround they gave me when I got home was infuriating. ETA #2: That same day that they wouldn't re-pin the card, I took out a chunk of my money and opened an account at a small local bank and they were able to give me a debit card immediately, and I typed in the pin myself.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,696
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on May 13, 2016 2:33:16 GMT
You go to your bank, your "home" branch and reset the pin. Should be any easy fix. Should be, but apparently my bank doesn't work like that. It was a replacement for a card that had been cancelled because it had been compromised. It was supposed to be set to my same pin. It was actually a pretty big ordeal, and when I finally got the replacement card, the pin never worked. I took it in to my main branch and they said they didn't have the ability to re-pin it. They may have said it's because it's a VISA debit card, but I might be making that up. Anyway, after going up the chain as far as the regional manager, I had to accept that I was going to have to wait one more week for yet another replacement card. That's the card I use now. I kept the first replacement because it still works as a credit card. ETA: That was a very bad time that I was trying to forget, and now I'm angry at them all over again. They left me stranded in Boston over a weekend with no way to access my money. Then the runaround they gave me when I got home was infuriating. That must have been a horrible situation. I really don't understand (trying to learn) the banking system in the USA. In Canada it is so different as there really are no private banks. There are many different Credit Unions and most of them are accessible through their network. ( ( ( hugs) ) ) I know that you travel a lot for your work. How is the contract in Fresno going?
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Post by hollymolly on May 13, 2016 3:01:19 GMT
quiltz Thanks for the hugs. I'm calming back down now. Fresno didn't pan out for me. A colleague who had been off the road for a while was ready to travel more, so they re-assigned it before I even started. He's actually there right now. I'm helping a newbie on her first solo project in Phoenix next week. I've been home most of this year with an account right where I live, so I'm ready to get back out there.
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Post by katlady on May 13, 2016 4:53:42 GMT
So, if I went to Europe or Australia with my chip enabled credit card, but with no PIN since they don't normally give you a PIN for credit cards in the US, will I not be able to use it??
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Post by myshelly on May 13, 2016 14:07:45 GMT
I'm confused....haven't you all been using pins for your debit card all along? I've had to put in a PIN to use mine for as long as I can remember having one and just assumed that everyone had to put one in. Or are we talking about adding PIN's to credit cards as well? If so, that's fine with me, as long as I can make it the same as one of my other ones so I don't forget it. No, I never use a pin for my card associated with my checking account. At the point of sale you can choose to enter a pin or you can choose to hit the button that says credit and it will run your bank card without your pin. I have never used a pin, I don't even know what my pin is.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:50:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 14:19:39 GMT
This thread has me so confused - the only chipped cards that require a PIN for me are my debit cards that also have the Visa logo. All my regular credit cards are chipped only, and I don't have PINs for them - because PINs used to be generally only assigned for cash advances, which I never signed up for. So I guess I was thinking that PINs are for debit, and I use the credit option for many purchases because I want the purchase protection, which I don't get with debit.
Is the deal here that all the chipped cards will need a PIN to be used anywhere soon, including out of the US?
I am considering moving all our transactions to AmEx because they are so protective against fraud and other merchant shenanigans, but that's a rant for another time. ::sigh:: Banking has gotten quite complicated!
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on May 13, 2016 15:07:45 GMT
This thread has me so confused - the only chipped cards that require a PIN for me are my debit cards that also have the Visa logo. All my regular credit cards are chipped only, and I don't have PINs for them - because PINs used to be generally only assigned for cash advances, which I never signed up for. So I guess I was thinking that PINs are for debit, and I use the credit option for many purchases because I want the purchase protection, which I don't get with debit. Is the deal here that all the chipped cards will need a PIN to be used anywhere soon, including out of the US? I am considering moving all our transactions to AmEx because they are so protective against fraud and other merchant shenanigans, but that's a rant for another time. ::sigh:: Banking has gotten quite complicated! As far as I understand, yes. A PIN will be required for all card use, whether a Debit (bank account) or Credit Card situation. I use PINs for all financial transactions (except tap or flash, but even then a PIN request will occasionally pop up), regardless if I am using my debit card(s) or credit card. I can't remember the last time I actually signed a receipt, I did a quite poll of my office and everyone else responds the same. It's really not complicated, in fact it's easier... and a lot faster!
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Post by katlady on May 13, 2016 15:39:10 GMT
This thread has me so confused - the only chipped cards that require a PIN for me are my debit cards that also have the Visa logo. All my regular credit cards are chipped only, and I don't have PINs for them - because PINs used to be generally only assigned for cash advances, which I never signed up for. So I guess I was thinking that PINs are for debit, and I use the credit option for many purchases because I want the purchase protection, which I don't get with debit. Is the deal here that all the chipped cards will need a PIN to be used anywhere soon, including out of the US? I am considering moving all our transactions to AmEx because they are so protective against fraud and other merchant shenanigans, but that's a rant for another time. ::sigh:: Banking has gotten quite complicated! As far as I understand, yes. A PIN will be required for all card use, whether a Debit (bank account) or Credit Card situation. I use PINs for all financial transactions (except tap or flash, but even then a PIN request will occasionally pop up), regardless if I am using my debit card(s) or credit card. I can't remember the last time I actually signed a receipt, I did a quite poll of my office and everyone else responds the same. It's really not complicated, in fact it's easier... and a lot faster! I only use credit cards and no machine has ever asked for my PIN. And some stores, like B&N, only asks for a signature if the transaction is over a certain $$ amount. So, not only do we not use PIN, and not show ID, but sometimes we don't even sign! Is it any wonder fraud is so rampant in the U.S.!
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on May 13, 2016 15:46:53 GMT
As far as I understand, yes. A PIN will be required for all card use, whether a Debit (bank account) or Credit Card situation. I use PINs for all financial transactions (except tap or flash, but even then a PIN request will occasionally pop up), regardless if I am using my debit card(s) or credit card. I can't remember the last time I actually signed a receipt, I did a quite poll of my office and everyone else responds the same. It's really not complicated, in fact it's easier... and a lot faster! I only use credit cards and no machine has ever asked for my PIN. And some stores, like B&N, only asks for a signature if the transaction is over a certain $$ amount. So, not only do we not use PIN, and not show ID, but sometimes we don't even sign! Is it any wonder fraud is so rampant in the U.S.! I have had the same experience as katlady. Never had to use a pin either in the US and in Europe. Last summer, we went to three European countries and I had gotten a pin for my credit cards and never once had to use the pin for any credit card anywhere from restaurants to stores to the airport etc (nor did anyone in my group). And I had to call and request a pin for those cards because I was never given an option previously to use/get a pin. (In all cases, the pin was sent to me via snail mail in a letter.) So apparently getting a pin is not automatic at all with chip credit cards. I remember specifically that one credit card rep, when I asked for a pin, said, "Oh, are you going to Europe?" So it's not the norm in the US at all. It may be in the future, but it is not at this time.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:50:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 16:23:33 GMT
I only use credit cards and no machine has ever asked for my PIN. And some stores, like B&N, only asks for a signature if the transaction is over a certain $$ amount. So, not only do we not use PIN, and not show ID, but sometimes we don't even sign! Is it any wonder fraud is so rampant in the U.S.! I totally agree with you and I'm having difficulty understanding the bit about using one card for either a debit or a credit . I've never heard of doing that. I have two cards, one is a debit card with a pin that is linked to my bank account( cheque account) which I also use to draw money from the ATM machine and also pay for store purchases.The money on this account comes out of my bank immediately the transaction is made. I have another card which is a credit card with a pin that is not linked to my bank account but to my credit card account for which I have a bill at the end of each month with all the transactions listed on there. I have the option of paying the amount in full or I can pay any amount higher than the minimum amount stated on the bill on this credit card. Both have a visa symbol on them. The original pin numbers for both came in the post, sealed and randomly chosen by a computer at the bank. I can however, and I have done so,change the pin numbers to 4 digits that are more memorable to me. I can do this through On -line banking, or at an ATM machine that displays the link symbol, which most of ours do in the UK. There is also the facility of ordering a new pin over the phone,at the bank or on-line. The more I read about the US banking system the more I think it's so very antiquated compared to the rest of us. I can't understand this argument from Visa. Visa is a global financial corporation so if it can let the rest of the world use pins with their credit cards why not the US. It can only protect everyone against fraud. The US carries 50% of the world banking fraud....... I can't say I'm surprised!
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Post by myshelly on May 13, 2016 16:35:58 GMT
This thread has me so confused - the only chipped cards that require a PIN for me are my debit cards that also have the Visa logo. All my regular credit cards are chipped only, and I don't have PINs for them - because PINs used to be generally only assigned for cash advances, which I never signed up for. So I guess I was thinking that PINs are for debit, and I use the credit option for many purchases because I want the purchase protection, which I don't get with debit. Is the deal here that all the chipped cards will need a PIN to be used anywhere soon, including out of the US? I am considering moving all our transactions to AmEx because they are so protective against fraud and other merchant shenanigans, but that's a rant for another time. ::sigh:: Banking has gotten quite complicated! As far as I understand, yes. A PIN will be required for all card use, whether a Debit (bank account) or Credit Card situation. I use PINs for all financial transactions (except tap or flash, but even then a PIN request will occasionally pop up), regardless if I am using my debit card(s) or credit card. I can't remember the last time I actually signed a receipt, I did a quite poll of my office and everyone else responds the same. It's really not complicated, in fact it's easier... and a lot faster! I just don't understand how it's faster. Transactions are taking twice as long to process. Every cashier and customer is complaining about the CHIPs.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:50:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 16:44:41 GMT
As far as I understand, yes. A PIN will be required for all card use, whether a Debit (bank account) or Credit Card situation. I use PINs for all financial transactions (except tap or flash, but even then a PIN request will occasionally pop up), regardless if I am using my debit card(s) or credit card. I can't remember the last time I actually signed a receipt, I did a quite poll of my office and everyone else responds the same. It's really not complicated, in fact it's easier... and a lot faster! I just don't understand how it's faster. Transactions are taking twice as long to process. Every cashier and customer is complaining about the CHIPs. Why would it be slower? The cashier rings up your purchases, you put your card in the machine,pin in your number and the cashier finalizes the transaction by hitting a key on the register, you remove your card and on your way. What could be simpler than that?
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Post by katlady on May 13, 2016 16:50:45 GMT
I just don't understand how it's faster. Transactions are taking twice as long to process. Every cashier and customer is complaining about the CHIPs. Why would it be slower? The cashier rings up your purchases, you put your card in the machine,pin in your number and the cashier finalizes the transaction by hitting a key on the register, you remove your card and on your way. What could be simpler than that? I think it seems slower because you have to leave your card in the machine while it processes. We are used to just swiping and not having to wait for the cashier to finalize the transaction before putting our card away. In fact, some stores let you to swipe your card while your items are still being rung up.
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Post by myshelly on May 13, 2016 16:58:58 GMT
I just don't understand how it's faster. Transactions are taking twice as long to process. Every cashier and customer is complaining about the CHIPs. Why would it be slower? The cashier rings up your purchases, you put your card in the machine,pin in your number and the cashier finalizes the transaction by hitting a key on the register, you remove your card and on your way. What could be simpler than that? Because it used to be that you could swipe your card at any time and by the time the cashier was done ringing you up you had already paid. Now you have to wait until the end of the transaction and you have to leave your card in the machine for a long time. MUCH longer than it takes a person to swipe a card.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:50:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 17:41:54 GMT
Why would it be slower? The cashier rings up your purchases, you put your card in the machine,pin in your number and the cashier finalizes the transaction by hitting a key on the register, you remove your card and on your way. What could be simpler than that? Because it used to be that you could swipe your card at any time and by the time the cashier was done ringing you up you had already paid. Now you have to wait until the end of the transaction and you have to leave your card in the machine for a long time. MUCH longer than it takes a person to swipe a card.Then the store needs new machine IMO. It takes all of 30 seconds for our transactions to process.
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Post by myshelly on May 13, 2016 17:42:44 GMT
Because it used to be that you could swipe your card at any time and by the time the cashier was done ringing you up you had already paid. Now you have to wait until the end of the transaction and you have to leave your card in the machine for a long time. MUCH longer than it takes a person to swipe a card.Then the store needs new machine IMO. It takes all of 30 seconds for our transactions to process. These ARE the brand new machines because we've never had this before.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:50:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 17:46:18 GMT
Then the store needs new machine IMO. It takes all of 30 seconds for our transactions to process. These ARE the brand new machines because we've never had this before. All I can say is that when we used to use the swipe system it took a lot longer for me to buy my stuff,swipe the card and sign for it than it does now with a pin.
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Post by myshelly on May 13, 2016 17:49:05 GMT
These ARE the brand new machines because we've never had this before. All I can say is that when we used to use the swipe system it took a lot longer for me to buy my stuff,swipe the card and sign for it than it does now with a pin. With the swipe system you can swipe your card, sign if necessary, and you're done before the cashier even finished scanning your stuff. As soon as the cashier finishes you walk away. Now you have to wait for the cashier to finish before you can even start the process of paying. Slows everyone down.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on May 13, 2016 17:49:06 GMT
Why would it be slower? The cashier rings up your purchases, you put your card in the machine,pin in your number and the cashier finalizes the transaction by hitting a key on the register, you remove your card and on your way. What could be simpler than that? Because it used to be that you could swipe your card at any time and by the time the cashier was done ringing you up you had already paid. Now you have to wait until the end of the transaction and you have to leave your card in the machine for a long time. MUCH longer than it takes a person to swipe a card. You swipe before you even have a total? That's dumb. Seriously dumb. We don't insert or swipe (for those few people who still swipe) until the transaction is finished and there's a total. Then we insert, PIN, process. Done. Get receipt. Bye bye. Seriously. If it takes a minute to process, it's taking too long. The way you're accustomed too sounds really complicated and I can see why fraud is rampant.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on May 13, 2016 17:50:16 GMT
All I can say is that when we used to use the swipe system it took a lot longer for me to buy my stuff,swipe the card and sign for it than it does now with a pin. With the swipe system you can swipe your card, sign if necessary, and you're done before the cashier even finished scanning your stuff. As soon as the cashier finishes you walk away. Now you have to wait for the cashier to finish before you can even start the process of paying. Slows everyone down. I really don't see how that's possible. How can you sign before you finish scanning. You don't have a total. I'm really missing something here. Even when I've been in the States I've never heard of such a process. You need a total to check out. I'm very confused.
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Post by cade387 on May 13, 2016 18:05:02 GMT
So, if I went to Europe or Australia with my chip enabled credit card, but with no PIN since they don't normally give you a PIN for credit cards in the US, will I not be able to use it??
When I travel to France and Italy if I don't have a chip and a PIN I can't pay for meals in many places, nor can you get gas outside of working hours (9-5). There is no gas station attendant after 5pm so the pumps only work with a PIN.
My work chip card has a PIN, my personal one is supposed to, but I haven't had to try it anywhere yet. I don't understand why we are not using the PINs, they are faster than what we are doing today.
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Post by katlady on May 13, 2016 18:05:17 GMT
With the swipe system you can swipe your card, sign if necessary, and you're done before the cashier even finished scanning your stuff. As soon as the cashier finishes you walk away. Now you have to wait for the cashier to finish before you can even start the process of paying. Slows everyone down. I really don't see how that's possible. How can you sign before you finish scanning. You don't have a total. I'm really missing something here. Even when I've been in the States I've never heard of such a process. You need a total to check out. I'm very confused. You can swipe your cards before the transaction is done. Then, depending on the store limit, if a signature is required, the transaction isn't done until you sign. But, if no signature is required, and you have already swiped your card, the transaction is done as soon as the cashier hits enter (or done or whatever). The signature box comes up after all your items are scanned.
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Post by myshelly on May 13, 2016 18:07:04 GMT
With the swipe system you can swipe your card, sign if necessary, and you're done before the cashier even finished scanning your stuff. As soon as the cashier finishes you walk away. Now you have to wait for the cashier to finish before you can even start the process of paying. Slows everyone down. I really don't see how that's possible. How can you sign before you finish scanning. You don't have a total. I'm really missing something here. Even when I've been in the States I've never heard of such a process. You need a total to check out. I'm very confused. You used to be able to swipe your card before the total. I don't know how else to explain it. You didn't have to wait for the cashier to finish before you swiped your card. Cashiers would specifically tell you you can swipe anytime because it would speed things up.
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 13, 2016 18:41:15 GMT
All I can say is that when we used to use the swipe system it took a lot longer for me to buy my stuff,swipe the card and sign for it than it does now with a pin. With the swipe system you can swipe your card, sign if necessary, and you're done before the cashier even finished scanning your stuff. As soon as the cashier finishes you walk away. Now you have to wait for the cashier to finish before you can even start the process of paying. Slows everyone down. This hasn't been my experience. Just yesterday I was at Target buying some stuff and as soon as she started scanning my items the customer terminal thing said "Insert your card now" or whatever it says. I never have to wait. It's no different than when it was a card swipe only terminal. I stick the card in, she finishes scanning my stuff and tells me the total, I key in my PIN and hit enter, she hands me my stuff and receipt, thank you and I'm out the door. It's not any slower at all. It's kind of like a game, I actually watch the screen so I can yank my card out before it starts beeping at me, LOL. I would be willing to agree that the process is slower when people don't know what they're doing. The faster people learn and adapt to the changes the faster overall everything will go and it will be the people stopping to sign and pushing all the extra buttons that will slow everything down. This conversation reminds me of that commercial from a long time ago where a bunch of people are in a busy restaurant paying with plastic in a quick, steady stream and somebody comes along and wants to pay with cash and the whole line comes to a screeching halt. Kind of ironic if you think about it! Here you go. VISA commercial
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Post by katlady on May 13, 2016 18:58:44 GMT
This conversation reminds me of that commercial from a long time ago where a bunch of people are in a busy restaurant paying with plastic in a quick, steady stream and somebody comes along and wants to pay with cash and the whole line comes to a screeching halt. Kind of ironic if you think about it! Here you go. VISA commercial VISA!!
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on May 13, 2016 19:02:15 GMT
I really don't see how that's possible. How can you sign before you finish scanning. You don't have a total. I'm really missing something here. Even when I've been in the States I've never heard of such a process. You need a total to check out. I'm very confused. You can swipe your cards before the transaction is done. Then, depending on the store limit, if a signature is required, the transaction isn't done until you sign. But, if no signature is required, and you have already swiped your card, the transaction is done as soon as the cashier hits enter (or done or whatever). The signature box comes up after all your items are scanned. So weird. Sorry, that just seems really backwards to me.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on May 13, 2016 19:02:55 GMT
I really don't see how that's possible. How can you sign before you finish scanning. You don't have a total. I'm really missing something here. Even when I've been in the States I've never heard of such a process. You need a total to check out. I'm very confused. You used to be able to swipe your card before the total. I don't know how else to explain it. You didn't have to wait for the cashier to finish before you swiped your card. Cashiers would specifically tell you you can swipe anytime because it would speed things up. Seriously weird. Though the rampant fraud in the States makes a lot more sense now.
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Post by anniefb on May 13, 2016 21:33:20 GMT
I am so confused. How can a pin be more secure? I have had my card compromised once and dh has had his used for $800 - what the bank investigators told me was that the pin numbers get compromised/stolen/swiped somehow and to always use credit instead. So sick of thieves. Chip and PIN cards are harder to replicate, thus being more secure. There is also a unique process to confirm that the chip and PIN are authentic. Chip/PIN cards also use cryptography - so the information about your credit card is stored securely on the chip and the PIN is needed to authenticate a transaction.
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