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Post by katlady on May 12, 2016 3:02:49 GMT
A couple of weeks ago, we had a discussion here about debit/credit cards and pins, and whether or not you need to use a pin. It seems like it is the credit card company, VISA in this case, that determines if you need to use a pin or not. Will be interesting to see who wins this one.
VISA vs Walmart
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Post by myshelly on May 12, 2016 3:13:46 GMT
I was one of the peas talking about this on the other thread.
I have a VISA check card with a chip that I will only use as credit. I won't use it as debit/enter my PIN (mostly bc I don't know my PIN and I really don't want to go inside a bank to sort it out).
I shopped at WM on Sunday and Monday. Both times I was still able to swipe my chipped VISA card and change to credit (I did not sign bc both transactions were under $50). As of Monday I could still swipe my card there even though it has a chip.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,696
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on May 12, 2016 3:36:26 GMT
What is the big deal about putting in a PIN#?
I have a debit card card associated with my bank account and put in the PIN at point of sale, easy. The "tap" feature is even easier and both my debit & credit cards have the tap feature. My credit card also has a PIN#. Put in the 4 digit #s & you are done.
Again, there are many countries that have been using the PIN system for many years without difficulties. Are Americans so fearful of changes? Btw, I don't know of anyone who writes cheques unless it is for insurance payments and even most places are listed for direct payment via your bank account.
Embrace change as this way of banking is the new & better way to bank.
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Post by katlady on May 12, 2016 3:49:42 GMT
Are Americans so fearful of changes? VISA is the one dictating that Walmart customers cannot use a PIN. I was reading some of the comments (either on the article I posted or another one) and many posters said that VISA actually makes more money if people sign for their transactions rather than using a PIN. VISA even acknowledges that using a PIN is more secure, but I think this is coming down to $$ not customer fear of using a PIN.
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Post by myshelly on May 12, 2016 3:54:55 GMT
Are Americans so fearful of changes? VISA is the one dictating that Walmart customers cannot use a PIN. I was reading some of the comments (either on the article I posted or another one) and many posters said that VISA actually makes more money if people sign for their transactions rather than using a PIN. VISA even acknowledges that using a PIN is more secure, but I think this is coming down to $$ not customer fear of using a PIN. VISA isn't saying customers cannot use a PIN. VISA is saying customers should have the option of signing or using a PIN.
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Post by worrywart on May 12, 2016 3:57:13 GMT
I am so confused. How can a pin be more secure? I have had my card compromised once and dh has had his used for $800 - what the bank investigators told me was that the pin numbers get compromised/stolen/swiped somehow and to always use credit instead. So sick of thieves.
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Post by katlady on May 12, 2016 4:01:29 GMT
VISA is the one dictating that Walmart customers cannot use a PIN. I was reading some of the comments (either on the article I posted or another one) and many posters said that VISA actually makes more money if people sign for their transactions rather than using a PIN. VISA even acknowledges that using a PIN is more secure, but I think this is coming down to $$ not customer fear of using a PIN. VISA isn't saying customers cannot use a PIN. VISA is saying customers should have the option of signing or using a PIN. True! I stand corrected on that statement. But I believe VISA is saying that because of the money it earns from signatures. I don't think they really care about what the customer wants. And then Walmart wants everyone to use a PIN so that some of the fraud responsibility is taken off of their hands.
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Post by katlady on May 12, 2016 4:02:56 GMT
I am so confused. How can a pin be more secure? I have had my card compromised once and dh has had his used for $800 - what the bank investigators told me was that the pin numbers get compromised/stolen/swiped somehow and to always use credit instead. So sick of thieves. Was it a card with the new chips in them? Supposedly the code in the chip changes every time you use it, and that combined with your PIN makes it more secure.
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Post by myshelly on May 12, 2016 13:04:36 GMT
I am so confused. How can a pin be more secure? I have had my card compromised once and dh has had his used for $800 - what the bank investigators told me was that the pin numbers get compromised/stolen/swiped somehow and to always use credit instead. So sick of thieves. I've always heard this, too.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on May 12, 2016 13:16:10 GMT
I am so confused. How can a pin be more secure? I have had my card compromised once and dh has had his used for $800 - what the bank investigators told me was that the pin numbers get compromised/stolen/swiped somehow and to always use credit instead. So sick of thieves. Chip and PIN cards are harder to replicate, thus being more secure. There is also a unique process to confirm that the chip and PIN are authentic.
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Post by Outspoken on May 12, 2016 13:27:41 GMT
I was one of the peas talking about this on the other thread. I have a VISA check card with a chip that I will only use as credit. I won't use it as debit/enter my PIN (mostly bc I don't know my PIN and I really don't want to go inside a bank to sort it out). I shopped at WM on Sunday and Monday. Both times I was still able to swipe my chipped VISA card and change to credit (I did not sign bc both transactions were under $50). As of Monday I could still swipe my card there even though it has a chip. Don't you think this practice is what enables thieves to get away with as much as they do? I just hate a thief!!
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Post by myshelly on May 12, 2016 13:33:31 GMT
I was one of the peas talking about this on the other thread. I have a VISA check card with a chip that I will only use as credit. I won't use it as debit/enter my PIN (mostly bc I don't know my PIN and I really don't want to go inside a bank to sort it out). I shopped at WM on Sunday and Monday. Both times I was still able to swipe my chipped VISA card and change to credit (I did not sign bc both transactions were under $50). As of Monday I could still swipe my card there even though it has a chip. Don't you think this practice is what enables thieves to get away with as much as they do? I just hate a thief!! I think thieves are going to steal no matter what.
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Post by bianca42 on May 12, 2016 13:36:17 GMT
If I use my debit card with a chip and a credit, it's free. If I enter the pin, the bank charges me a small fee for each transaction. (At least this was the case 4 years ago when I switched to this bank.)
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Post by Outspoken on May 12, 2016 13:40:01 GMT
Don't you think this practice is what enables thieves to get away with as much as they do? I just hate a thief!! I think thieves are going to steal no matter what.
I totally agree! But, I don't want to HELP them!
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Post by bianca42 on May 12, 2016 13:42:10 GMT
If I use my debit card with a chip and a credit, it's free. If I enter the pin, the bank charges me a small fee for each transaction. (At least this was the case 4 years ago when I switched to this bank.) SO, I just went to my bank's website and this has changed. No fee for using the chip and pin vs. chip and sign.
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 12, 2016 14:11:05 GMT
I think thieves are going to steal no matter what.
I totally agree! But, I don't want to HELP them! I'm right there with you. I'll happily embrace whatever changes are made to make things more secure for both the people using the cards and for the businesses accepting them. I think it's silly to allow any dollar amount to go through without some kind of identifying procedure (PIN, signature, something). So often the thieves will "test" a card number with a small transaction and if it goes through then they will attempt to rob you (and the store) blind. Imagine how many fewer cases of fraud there would be if those small transactions were kicked back right from the get-go?
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luvnlifelady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,421
Jun 26, 2014 2:34:35 GMT
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Post by luvnlifelady on May 12, 2016 16:08:47 GMT
Seems like chip and pin are more secure than chip and signature. Nobody verifies the signature so anyone can just sign your name. I realize pins can be compromised too but seems not as easily as forging a signature.
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Post by gmcwife1 on May 12, 2016 18:15:50 GMT
Are Americans so fearful of changes? VISA is the one dictating that Walmart customers cannot use a PIN. I was reading some of the comments (either on the article I posted or another one) and many posters said that VISA actually makes more money if people sign for their transactions rather than using a PIN. VISA even acknowledges that using a PIN is more secure, but I think this is coming down to $$ not customer fear of using a PIN. I get so tired of the "are Americans so fearful of changes" when we are often just discussing things. I don't know my PIN for one of my debit/credit VISAs for a similar reason as myshelly. The bank assigned it and we don't have very many branches around me. The closest branch is over an hour a way. Whenever I make a purchase I use credit for that card and tell the clerk whichever is better for them when I use my other debit card. I was under the impression that they would or have been charged differently depending on which is used, but since I'm no longer in retail I don't remember which it is.
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Post by Outspoken on May 12, 2016 19:01:47 GMT
VISA is the one dictating that Walmart customers cannot use a PIN. I was reading some of the comments (either on the article I posted or another one) and many posters said that VISA actually makes more money if people sign for their transactions rather than using a PIN. VISA even acknowledges that using a PIN is more secure, but I think this is coming down to $$ not customer fear of using a PIN. I get so tired of the "are Americans so fearful of changes" when we are often just discussing things. I don't know my PIN for one of my debit/credit VISAs for a similar reason as myshelly. The bank assigned it and we don't have very many branches around me. The closest branch is over an hour a way. Whenever I make a purchase I use credit for that card and tell the clerk whichever is better for them when I use my other debit card. I was under the impression that they would or have been charged differently depending on which is used, but since I'm no longer in retail I don't remember which it is. I think it's ok if you CHOOSE not to use a PIN. However, if that be the case, I think merchants should be mandated to asked for ID or pay the price if the card was stolen/used fraudulently.
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Post by hollymolly on May 12, 2016 19:35:13 GMT
Kroger (at least in my area) is now requiring you to enter a pin when you have a chip card. Their card readers are programmed to not allow you to run it as credit.
I have a debit card that was mis-pinned a couple of years ago. No one knows what the pin is. It's not the pin I gave them, I know because it's the one I always use. I guess they couldn't re-pin so they just gave me a new card. I let DS use that card to purchase groceries and other household items. He called me all upset from Kroger one day because he was buying my groceries for the week and they wouldn't let him run it as credit. As I said, no one knows the pin on this card. He didn't have enough money in his own account to cover it, so he had to put everything back. He was furious. He then went to Walmart and bought everything on my list, except for a couple of items that were Kroger-specific. I don't think he will ever shop at Kroger again. I felt pretty bad about it, because the same thing happened to a woman in front of me at Kroger just a few days earlier, and I completely forgot about it. If I had remembered, I would never have sent him to buy my groceries there.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,696
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on May 12, 2016 20:36:11 GMT
What is the big deal about putting in a PIN#? I have a debit card card associated with my bank account and put in the PIN at point of sale, easy. The "tap" feature is even easier and both my debit & credit cards have the tap feature. My credit card also has a PIN#. Put in the 4 digit #s & you are done. Again, there are many countries that have been using the PIN system for many years without difficulties. Are Americans so fearful of changes? Btw, I don't know of anyone who writes cheques unless it is for insurance payments and even most places are listed for direct payment via your bank account. Embrace change as this way of banking is the new & better way to bank. I live in Canada where all cards are chipped and have been chipped for a very long time.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,696
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on May 12, 2016 20:38:04 GMT
Kroger (at least in my area) is now requiring you to enter a pin when you have a chip card. Their card readers are programmed to not allow you to run it as credit. I have a debit card that was mis-pinned a couple of years ago. No one knows what the pin is. It's not the pin I gave them, I know because it's the one I always use. I guess they couldn't re-pin so they just gave me a new card. I let DS use that card to purchase groceries and other household items. He called me all upset from Kroger one day because he was buying my groceries for the week and they wouldn't let him run it as credit. As I said, no one knows the pin on this card. He didn't have enough money in his own account to cover it, so he had to put everything back. He was furious. He then went to Walmart and bought everything on my list, except for a couple of items that were Kroger-specific. I don't think he will ever shop at Kroger again. I felt pretty bad about it, because the same thing happened to a woman in front of me at Kroger just a few days earlier, and I completely forgot about it. If I had remembered, I would never have sent him to buy my groceries there. You go to your bank, your "home" branch and reset the pin. Should be any easy fix.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,696
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Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on May 12, 2016 20:44:52 GMT
VISA is the one dictating that Walmart customers cannot use a PIN. I was reading some of the comments (either on the article I posted or another one) and many posters said that VISA actually makes more money if people sign for their transactions rather than using a PIN. VISA even acknowledges that using a PIN is more secure, but I think this is coming down to $$ not customer fear of using a PIN. I get so tired of the "are Americans so fearful of changes" when we are often just discussing things. I don't know my PIN for one of my debit/credit VISAs for a similar reason as myshelly. The bank assigned it and we don't have very many branches around me. The closest branch is over an hour a way. Whenever I make a purchase I use credit for that card and tell the clerk whichever is better for them when I use my other debit card. I was under the impression that they would or have been charged differently depending on which is used, but since I'm no longer in retail I don't remember which it is. So if your security is worth so much, simply drive to your branch and change the pin. 2 hours or less of your time should to ensure that your PIN be important enough. There is so much about the USA banking syxtem that makes this Canadian very happy to be in Canada. Simplified banking for the consumer is a BIG DEAL.
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Post by myshelly on May 12, 2016 20:50:28 GMT
I get so tired of the "are Americans so fearful of changes" when we are often just discussing things. I don't know my PIN for one of my debit/credit VISAs for a similar reason as myshelly. The bank assigned it and we don't have very many branches around me. The closest branch is over an hour a way. Whenever I make a purchase I use credit for that card and tell the clerk whichever is better for them when I use my other debit card. I was under the impression that they would or have been charged differently depending on which is used, but since I'm no longer in retail I don't remember which it is. So if your security is worth so much, simply drive to your branch and change the pin. 2 hours or less of your time should to ensure that your PIN be important enough. There is so much about the USA banking syxtem that makes this Canadian very happy to be in Canada. Simplified banking for the consumer is a BIG DEAL. I don't have time for that. I have no desire to get a PIN. I simply want to continue to use my card as I have always been able to without any inconvenience to me. IMO, I am the consumer; it is MY card; I should be able to CHOOSE if I want to enter a PIN. I think my banking is super simple. A PIN would complicate it.
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luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 25, 2014 21:21:08 GMT
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Post by luckyexwife on May 12, 2016 20:54:59 GMT
So if your security is worth so much, simply drive to your branch and change the pin. 2 hours or less of your time should to ensure that your PIN be important enough. There is so much about the USA banking syxtem that makes this Canadian very happy to be in Canada. Simplified banking for the consumer is a BIG DEAL. I don't have time for that. I have no desire to get a PIN. I simply want to continue to use my card as I have always been able to without any inconvenience to me. IMO, I am the consumer; it is MY card; I should be able to CHOOSE if I want to enter a PIN. I think my banking is super simple. A PIN would complicate it. For what it's worth, when I needed a pin for my card, I just called the 800 number on the back, and I didn't even have to talk to a person. It was an automated system, I just push the number that said I needed a PIN number, and within a week they had mailed me one.
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Post by myshelly on May 12, 2016 21:06:47 GMT
I don't have time for that. I have no desire to get a PIN. I simply want to continue to use my card as I have always been able to without any inconvenience to me. IMO, I am the consumer; it is MY card; I should be able to CHOOSE if I want to enter a PIN. I think my banking is super simple. A PIN would complicate it. For what it's worth, when I needed a pin for my card, I just called the 800 number on the back, and I didn't even have to talk to a person. It was an automated system, I just push the number that said I needed a PIN number, and within a week they had mailed me one. That is good to know, thank you. I haven't been inside a bank in more than ten years. Clearly it's not something I like to do
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Post by gmcwife1 on May 12, 2016 21:09:15 GMT
I get so tired of the "are Americans so fearful of changes" when we are often just discussing things. I don't know my PIN for one of my debit/credit VISAs for a similar reason as myshelly. The bank assigned it and we don't have very many branches around me. The closest branch is over an hour a way. Whenever I make a purchase I use credit for that card and tell the clerk whichever is better for them when I use my other debit card. I was under the impression that they would or have been charged differently depending on which is used, but since I'm no longer in retail I don't remember which it is. So if your security is worth so much, simply drive to your branch and change the pin. 2 hours or less of your time should to ensure that your PIN be important enough. There is so much about the USA banking syxtem that makes this Canadian very happy to be in Canada. Simplified banking for the consumer is a BIG DEAL. Not sure why you think it's a problem with me or for me. I have two cards that I use differently, what is your issue with that
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quiltz
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Posts: 6,696
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Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on May 12, 2016 21:29:59 GMT
Is it that difficult to go to your branch and get a PIN #?
This is the new way of banking, PINS. This is a secure way to transfer money from one entity to another. Remember 4 digits and don't tell anyone what the #s are. Simple & secure.
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Post by kels99 on May 12, 2016 22:51:10 GMT
I'm confused....haven't you all been using pins for your debit card all along? I've had to put in a PIN to use mine for as long as I can remember having one and just assumed that everyone had to put one in. Or are we talking about adding PIN's to credit cards as well? If so, that's fine with me, as long as I can make it the same as one of my other ones so I don't forget it.
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 12, 2016 23:00:30 GMT
For all of the cards I've received with the chips in them, I have been prompted to call an 800 number to set up a PIN number for the new cards. Every single one. I call the toll free number, go through the automated system and choose the pin I want. Easy peasy and I never have to step foot inside a bank.
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