flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jun 29, 2016 22:12:38 GMT
Here's my thing. I think the government is not my Church and I have no issues with the government allowing same sex marriages. I have never called someone who identifies as a homosexual a name. I do think it's a sin though, and that's a church issue. I have been called a homophobe on this board. A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I have no fears of folks in same sex relationships, I do not think the world is gonna cave in when the government gives these couples the same rights as a male/female couple. I don't stop watching my favorite shows when characters "come out". Yet because I think it's a sin I have been called a homophobe by folks on 2peas and my opinions dismissed as such. Back 25 years ago when I worked as an RN in Canada I held the hand of many young men as they died of AIDS related complications. Whose families and partners abandoned them. Yet I am the homophobe according to some. The word 'homophobe' is just as dismissive as "freaks" etc. It's said in an derogatory way for the most part. SaveI don't personally find a view that homosexuality is a sin to be homophobia. If I've expressed it that way, then this is my retraction. (I know you were not speaking to me, I'm just speaking in general.) The world I live in - I am a liberal, queer, Christian woman, in a heterosexual marriage, so some of my categories don't entirely fit - and most of my friends are more conservative, mostly evangelical types although I do have that subset of lefty friends who are pretty awesome too. But that means I live in this in between world. I actually like it that way. I don't live in an echo chamber and that is GOOD. The thing is that it doesn't bother me to hear people say they think homosexuality is a sin. That's fine. I understand the theology and the philosophy that gets you there. It does bother me - and this is where the word homophobia starts to get used - when it starts to get down to things like declaring homosexuality to be mental illness, using phrases like freak show. I have a hard time with people who use phrases like "homosexual agenda" and lobby for a ban on gay marriage because OMG the downfall of society - when it feels personal at other people more than it is a personal conviction for someone else. That's where it becomes a problem. It's hard to separate the political and the personal on things like this, but it's easy to respect a person who has a conviction you disagree with but treats others kindly and with respect. It's not hard to parse out which is which. Some perfectly reasonable and thoughtful folks with a different conviction get caught up in the backlash and end up being lumped in with the real homophobes sometimes and that's not okay either. Differences of opinion are good for our society but I also see no real obligation to try to make actual homophobes feel okay about their homophobia by not pointing it out. A lot of us sat down and shut up for a lot of years and just sort of accepted whatever people wanted to say about us and I can't exactly support that approach either. May I stand and applaud this? Twice?
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Post by elaine on Jun 29, 2016 22:38:13 GMT
I was actually trying to have a discussion with you, Gia. About the impact the history a poster here on 2Peas has made for herself - be it Rainbow, me, or you- has on how other people respond to her posts. You are being as civil to me as most people that you are complaining about are to Rainbow. Have your responses to me been to try and discuss, or have they been to slap me down and cut off conversation? If your posts to me on this thread are what you consider "civil" then I have always been civil with you. You engage in the exact behavior with me that you don't like others doing with Rainbow. And it is because of our history. It wasn't my intention to smack you down, I was making the point that there's a difference between disagreeing and attacking when you disagree. I completely and sincerely apologize and take full responsibility for responding to you in a way that came off as smacking you down and I see why it looks that way. I misunderstood your post that I responded to. It didn't look as if you were trying to have a discussion with me. I'm very sorry for responding in a negative way. Thank you. I was actually trying to have a discussion because I think there is something akin to a family dynamic at play with all of us. Many of us have been together at least a decade, and our history - good, bad, etc. - always plays a part. Just like when you (general you) have a friend over to dinner and your mom says something that sends you off your rocker, and your friend can't understand why that little innocent statement made you so angry. It is impossible with that much history to say that it was all your fault that you blew up, because she also knew exactly what she was saying and the impact it would have on you. That's her part. Your part is that you blew up in response. Both of you (General you) played a part in the interaction, like you have a thousand times. You and I do our own dance - we both play a part. Rainbow does her dance with many others, including me, and we all play our parts. In order for the dance/dynamic to change, one or both people have to want to change. Because once the pattern is established, it is very difficult to change - just like our interchange here highlighted. That is all I was trying to discuss and I thought that it would be easier to understand if I brought it closer - to you and I - rather than out there as between Rainbow and others. And now, hugs to you too!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 28, 2024 13:47:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 22:43:18 GMT
It wasn't my intention to smack you down, I was making the point that there's a difference between disagreeing and attacking when you disagree. I completely and sincerely apologize and take full responsibility for responding to you in a way that came off as smacking you down and I see why it looks that way. I misunderstood your post that I responded to. It didn't look as if you were trying to have a discussion with me. I'm very sorry for responding in a negative way. Thank you. I was actually trying to have a discussion because I think there is something akin to a family dynamic at play with all of us. Many of us have been together at least a decade, and our history - good, bad, etc. - always plays a part. Just like when you (general you) have a friend over to dinner and your mom says something that sends you off your rocker, and your friend can't understand why that little innocent statement made you so angry. It is impossible with that much history to say that it was all your fault that you blew up, because she also knew exactly what she was saying and the impact it would have on you. That's her part. Your part is that you blew up in response. Both of you (General you) played a part in the interaction, like you have a thousand times. You and I do our own dance - we both play a part. Rainbow does her dance with many others, including me, and we all play our parts. In order for the dance/dynamic to change, one or both people have to want to change. Because once the pattern is established, it is very difficult to change - just like our interchange here highlighted. That is all I was trying to discuss and I thought that it would be easier to understand if I brought it closer - to you and I - rather than out there as between Rainbow and others. And now, hugs to you too!
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jun 29, 2016 23:31:58 GMT
It wasn't my intention to smack you down, I was making the point that there's a difference between disagreeing and attacking when you disagree. I completely and sincerely apologize and take full responsibility for responding to you in a way that came off as smacking you down and I see why it looks that way. I misunderstood your post that I responded to. It didn't look as if you were trying to have a discussion with me. I'm very sorry for responding in a negative way. Thank you. I was actually trying to have a discussion because I think there is something akin to a family dynamic at play with all of us. Many of us have been together at least a decade, and our history - good, bad, etc. - always plays a part. Just like when you (general you) have a friend over to dinner and your mom says something that sends you off your rocker, and your friend can't understand why that little innocent statement made you so angry. It is impossible with that much history to say that it was all your fault that you blew up, because she also knew exactly what she was saying and the impact it would have on you. That's her part. Your part is that you blew up in response. Both of you (General you) played a part in the interaction, like you have a thousand times. You and I do our own dance - we both play a part. Rainbow does her dance with many others, including me, and we all play our parts. In order for the dance/dynamic to change, one or both people have to want to change. Because once the pattern is established, it is very difficult to change - just like our interchange here highlighted. That is all I was trying to discuss and I thought that it would be easier to understand if I brought it closer - to you and I - rather than out there as between Rainbow and others. And now, hugs to you too! You know, as upsetting/offensive as parts of this thread have become, I'm also noticing that there seems to be some realization going on in terms of working to be more respectful during discussions/disagreements, which is awesome!! Going to check out the political threads to see if it carries over
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 30, 2016 1:21:48 GMT
I have to agree with this. There is such a deliberate avoidance/ deflection of even the simplest questions that just does not fit with being on the spectrum. If she were, I would expect politically incorrect answers to questions, not avoidance. JMO. I haven't overlooked the avoidance/deflection that occurs regularly and frustrates everyone so much. I already cited a classic example that happened just within this very thread and addressed it then. Whether a poster is out to take people on a ride or they have real processing difficulties, the only thing I am responsible for is how I respond. My response is dependent on what I know from my experiences and how I perceive the information. Often I create a response while I am sitting across from someone who has some quirk in their ability to process social interactions correctly. Her face is 3 feet away from me at this very moment, in fact. You bet it filters these message board posts differently from other people's perceptions. What good is it to decide that you know someone(s) who's on the spectrum and you haven't seen the similarities I have? You'd say the exact same thing about the person across from me now. She does not fit the classic spectrum perception - on the surface. But dear Lord, you have no idea what lies beneath that surface. You have not lived through the chaos that she can create in public while being completely unaware of what she's doing. You haven't heard her come out with the most "hate-filled, inflammatory nonsense" to people she should know will take it to be a provocative announcement to the world. You don't know that she has no ill will towards any other person, that she is incapable of understanding what impact this will have on someone else, or - maybe even most frustratingly - will not remember saying anything that got someone else upset. She has come to realize that she does not feel deep emotions the same way others do. That does not concern her, either. But she has learned to adapt, recognizing that others do have deep emotions and are impacted by things she doesn't even notice. Because she is a very caring individual, she tries to respond to that other person when they are upset in ways that she has found appropriate to calming them down and helping them feel better. On a message board like this? The skills she has learned to cope are pretty useless. She is not now, nor has she ever been on this board. It doesn't interest her in the least, in case anyone was wondering. She follows other sites and rarely ever comments. There are a lot of people who follow this site and rarely ever comment. It's sobering to realize the difficulties other people can and do face that may factor into why they only read along and don't actively try to participate. Being labelled a troll is definitely high on that list of why they don't post.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 30, 2016 1:29:59 GMT
I have to agree with this. There is such a deliberate avoidance/ deflection of even the simplest questions that just does not fit with being on the spectrum. If she were, I would expect politically incorrect answers to questions, not avoidance. JMO. I haven't overlooked the avoidance/deflection that occurs regularly and frustrates everyone so much. I already cited a classic example that happened just within this very thread and addressed it then. Whether a poster is out to take people on a ride or they have real processing difficulties, the only thing I am responsible for is how I respond. My response is dependent on what I know from my experiences and how I perceive the information. Often I create a response while I am sitting across from someone who has some quirk in their ability to process social interactions correctly. Her face is 3 feet away from me at this very moment, in fact. You bet it filters these message board posts differently from other people's perceptions. What good is it to decide that you know someone(s) who's on the spectrum and you haven't seen the similarities I have? You'd say the exact same thing about the person across from me now. She does not fit the classic spectrum perception - on the surface. But dear Lord, you have no idea what lies beneath that surface. You have not lived through the chaos that she can create in public while being completely unaware of what she's doing. You haven't heard her come out with the most "hate-filled, inflammatory nonsense" to people she should know will take it to be a provocative announcement to the world. You don't know that she has no ill will towards any other person, that she is incapable of understanding what impact this will have on someone else, or - maybe even most frustratingly - will not remember saying anything that got someone else upset. She has come to realize that she does not feel deep emotions the same way others do. That does not concern her, either. But she has learned to adapt, recognizing that others do have deep emotions and are impacted by things she doesn't even notice. Because she is a very caring individual, she tries to respond to that other person when they are upset in ways that she has found appropriate to calming them down and helping them feel better. On a message board like this? The skills she has learned to cope are pretty useless. She is not now, nor has she ever been on this board. It doesn't interest her in the least, in case anyone was wondering. She follows other sites and rarely ever comments. There are a lot of people who follow this site and rarely ever comment. It's sobering to realize the difficulties other people can and do face that may factor into why they only read along and don't actively try to participate. Being labelled a troll is definitely high on that list of why they don't post. g It's true that I don't live with anyone on the spectrum. I base what I said on working with people on all points of the spectrum. There is a difference, as you know, in how they react to questions/comments/conversation. Shrug. My experience and perspective are different than yours. And that's all that I am going to say about that.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 30, 2016 4:33:20 GMT
It does bother me - and this is where the word homophobia starts to get used - when it starts to get down to things like declaring homosexuality to be mental illness, using phrases like freak show. I have a hard time with people who use phrases like "homosexual agenda" and lobby for a ban on gay marriage because OMG the downfall of society - when it feels personal at other people more than it is a personal conviction for someone else. That's where it becomes a problem. It took me a minute to place you with this new name and avatar. I agree with you. These things are not OK. People do have to speak up. On this message board, there is plenty of opportunity to do just that. And we have. Frequently. I don't feel the compelling need to repeat the message on every post I disagree with. I have no hesitancy in ignoring some because I can make a more effective statement in this same community somewhere else. But that's me. That's how I respond. Your mileage will vary.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 30, 2016 4:36:16 GMT
But I would say they were committing a sin. And who exactly would you say this to? .... That is a profound question.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 30, 2016 4:53:16 GMT
If this is one of the threads that you referenced, this is a response to rainbow from a member. You'll see, that back then, others felt the same as what I posted about. I'm a little confused. You quoted me from some time ago. Is this directed to me? Was that a response of mine to Rainbow? It looks like it. I'm not sure what the purpose is of having it here. Anyone who's ever read some of her more craycray threads should be aware that I do tell her I disagree with her. I have on this thread and frankly, I said something not all that different today than I said that day. I made it so obvious, I even tagged her name so that she can evaluate my response on her own and I'm not talking behind her back. And then I move on. FWIW, I don't have Rainbow on ignore, so this is going completely over my head. Whatever. If you're making fun of me, you're hardly the first and I doubt you'll be the last.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 30, 2016 5:56:45 GMT
It's true that I don't live with anyone on the spectrum. I base what I said on working with people on all points of the spectrum. There is a difference, as you know, in how they react to questions/comments/conversation. Shrug. My experience and perspective are different than yours. And that's all that I am going to say about that. I'm good with that. I'm not surprised to hear that your experience is different from ours. It seems that everyone else's is too. Fortunately, and unlike Rainbow, because she is aware that she can get herself in over her head in a flash, she does not start thread after thread after thread anywhere on the net.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 30, 2016 12:52:03 GMT
If this is one of the threads that you referenced, this is a response to rainbow from a member. You'll see, that back then, others felt the same as what I posted about. I'm a little confused. You quoted me from some time ago. Is this directed to me? Was that a response of mine to Rainbow? It looks like it. I'm not sure what the purpose is of having it here. Anyone who's ever read some of her more craycray threads should be aware that I do tell her I disagree with her. I have on this thread and frankly, I said something not all that different today than I said that day. I made it so obvious, I even tagged her name so that she can evaluate my response on her own and I'm not talking behind her back. And then I move on. FWIW, I don't have Rainbow on ignore, so this is going completely over my head. Whatever. If you're making fun of me, you're hardly the first and I doubt you'll be the last. No definitely not directed at you! And I was most definitely not making fun of you!!!! Even though we are not always aligned in some areas I do read your posts thoroughly and respect you! I was using this as an example of others see what rainbow does/types of posts--showing that I'm not the only one that sees this stuff she does. That topic was in part of the convo up thread. So sorry you interpreted it differently!
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jun 30, 2016 14:34:39 GMT
And who exactly would you say this to? .... That is a profound question. Not sure why but this was not quoted where I said "But I would say they were committing a sin." It was also in relation to those having sex outside of marriage just to put it back in perspective. I found it: I would say it to anyone who asked me what I think the bible teaches on the subject.
OTOH this statement was part of a conversation that to me was more about identifying, labeling sin etc. It went back to how the church deals with premarital sex vs homosexual sex in the public eye. I was saying that yeah I would say it's sinful too. Not that I would run around going "sinner".. "sinner" ... "sinner". Save
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 30, 2016 19:02:22 GMT
So sorry you interpreted it differently! No problem! For the record, that was me talking to Rainbow on an older thread.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 30, 2016 19:09:11 GMT
That is a profound question. Not sure why but this was not quoted where I said "But I would say they were committing a sin." It was also in relation to those having sex outside of marriage just to put it back in perspective. I found it: I would say it to anyone who asked me what I think the bible teaches on the subject.
OTOH this statement was part of a conversation that to me was more about identifying, labeling sin etc. It went back to how the church deals with premarital sex vs homosexual sex in the public eye. I was saying that yeah I would say it's sinful too. Not that I would run around going "sinner".. "sinner" ... "sinner". SaveOh, Country Ham. I did not mean that refer back to you personally, and it so obviously did. My apologies. I think it is a profound question for a lot of people to think about in general. When you have something of deep importance to you - such as a particular religious belief - who do you say it to? Do you make it your business to stick your nose in to other people's lives to tell them? Or, do you wait until an appropriate time, such as a discussion about whatever topic your belief may be about? I think that question ties in to this whole thread.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 28, 2024 13:47:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 22:51:28 GMT
If this is one of the threads that you referenced, this is a response to rainbow from a member. You'll see, that back then, others felt the same as what I posted about. No, that's not the thread. But they were on the EXACT same topic. One began with Now I've seen everything and the other began with WOW. One resulted in a discussion and the other resulted in a smack down.
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