flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jul 1, 2016 21:11:25 GMT
Taking a bit of a time-out here to share some thoughts. I hope you'll receive them in the way I'm intending.
One time in a previous thread, you alluded to some time spent in combat. If that's the case, I can see where your feelings of concern might be affected by your prior experience. I'm just speculating here, but if you've been in that sort of a situation and have PTSD or other lasting affects, it might help us better understand where you're coming from.
Our personal history plays a very big part in shaping our fears and concerns. Sometimes that is the known, sometimes it's the unknown. Two examples for myself:
1. I have a phobia of tornadoes. I'd always had a healthy fear of them, but when I was in college out of state, my hometown took a direct hit, and I didn't know if my immediate and extended family members were alive until the following day. Since then, I've had recurring nightmares about being hit by a tornado in a public place. My emotional response to severe weather is not always rational, and it's only been in the past several years that I've been able to help myself by becoming a storm spotter and helping with communication between local spotters and the NWS. My "phobia" is not gone, but by helping to eliminate the unknown and non-control part of the situation, it makes it easier to handle.
2. My son is going to college in Virginia in the fall. I'm terrified. I'm terrified because he'll be within driving distance of Washington D.C. and will have to fly into/out of the airport there. I'm scared to death of a terrorist attack or bombing or whatever. Ironically, a few months ago there was a workplace shooting in the quiet, peaceful, small Mennonite community where he attended college last year, and where my family lives. He was safe, but statistically much more likely to have been injured in that event, than he will be in Virginia. While I know that in my head, in my heart I have absolutely no concerns about sending my daughter to the same college he just graduated from, but I'm still a mess about Virginia.
My point here is, perhaps if Rainbow could share some of the reasons behind her fears and concerns, we might be more tolerant/understanding of them.
Of course, I could be way completely off base and she's just trying to yank our chains, in which case I've made a fool of myself, but I think it's at least worth considering.
And now back to the thread (which, incidentally, has turned into a pretty good discussion topic)
I know you're trying to be helpful here, but this is why you'll never get a comprehensive discussion here. The need to classify people who carry a gun as living in fear, being paranoid, having PTSD or some other sort of mental disorder is what causes most people who carry, not to participate. Unless you're someone like Rainbow, who doesn't care what people think, most others don't want to be labeled in such a manner and affect their enjoyment of the board. So this causes you (general you) to come to the conclusion that Rainbow must be an anomaly and your classification of people who carry must be correct. The problem with that thinking is that carrying a gun is no more living in fear, paranoia and having a mental disorder, than having a fire extinguisher, wearing a seat belt, having insurance or locking your doors, is living in fear, paranoia and having a mental disorder. Oh gosh, no I'm not intending in ANY way to classify, not at all - quite the opposite, actually. I've noticed that people feel Rainbow's views on the subject are over-the-top (paranoia and mental illness have been mentioned more than once), and got to thinking about reasons WHY her views might be more extreme than the typical pro-carry person. Frankly, isn't that why all of the reaction to her threads?
The vast majority of pro- and anti- carry people are regular folks who just have a difference in opinion, for whatever reason. I'm sure there are more extreme views on both sides, as with most everything. Even though what I said is relevant to all of us in one way or another, my point was that in Rainbow's case, there may be some history that we're not aware of that affects her view on this particular subject.
My FIL conceal carries with a license, and he's just a normal guy. I'm sure most are.
I hope that makes sense?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 10:44:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 21:48:29 GMT
@ilovecookies
NOOOOO!!! You changed your avatar!!
Brain...must....work...harder to...see...ilovecookies...BLERGH!!! (But damn, it's super cute!!)
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 10:44:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 21:58:34 GMT
@ilovecookies NOOOOO!!! You changed your avatar!! Brain...must....work...harder to...see...ilovecookies...BLERGH!!! (But damn, it's super cute!!) TBH, I've had it the same way for so long, that I'm not even sure that *I* like it! And I go by ppl's avatars, too, so it's wahzzing me out a little, also. I might have to change it back.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 1, 2016 22:08:33 GMT
No. We have the right to arms. We have the right to be free of arms in our own privately owned business. You don't like my business choices. Don't shop there. How is this different from a pharmacist refusing to dispense birth control? It's his business, he has a right to be free from things that offend his religious beliefs. So therefore if you want birth-control go to another business
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Post by elaine on Jul 1, 2016 22:12:52 GMT
@ilovecookies NOOOOO!!! You changed your avatar!! Brain...must....work...harder to...see...ilovecookies...BLERGH!!! (But damn, it's super cute!!) TBH, I've had it the same way for so long, that I'm not even sure that *I* like it! And I go by ppl's avatars, too, so it's wahzzing me out a little, also. I might have to change it back. Nooooo! I love Japanese woodblock Cookie Monster! Don't change it. I've always loved Japanese woodblock waves. Pleeeeease keep it!
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 1, 2016 22:16:29 GMT
No. We have the right to arms. We have the right to be free of arms in our own privately owned business. You don't like my business choices. Don't shop there. How is this different from a pharmacist refusing to dispense birth control? It's his business, he has a right to be free from things that offend his religious beliefs. So therefore if you want birth-control go to another business This is different in my state, at least, because pharmacists in CA are required to dispense medication that has been legitimately prescribed. Additionally, most of the pharmacists I have read who refuse to fill prescriptions do not own the pharmacies they work for. Most of the cases I have read involve pharmacists who are employed by the pharmacy they're working for.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 10:44:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 22:30:09 GMT
No. We have the right to arms. We have the right to be free of arms in our own privately owned business. You don't like my business choices. Don't shop there. How is this different from a pharmacist refusing to dispense birth control? It's his business, he has a right to be free from things that offend his religious beliefs. So therefore if you want birth-control go to another business Not really. If that were true Kosher Jews and Muslim cashiers could refuse to scan people's pork chops at the grocery store. A Muslim clerk at the DMV could refuse to issue a driver's license to a woman. Freedom of religion doesn't mean that you (general) get to impose your beliefs on others.
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Post by elaine on Jul 1, 2016 22:43:18 GMT
How is this different from a pharmacist refusing to dispense birth control? It's his business, he has a right to be free from things that offend his religious beliefs. So therefore if you want birth-control go to another business This is different in my state, at least, because pharmacists in CA are required to dispense medication that has been legitimately prescribed. Additionally, most of the pharmacists I have read who refuse to fill prescriptions do not own the pharmacies they work for. Most of the cases I have read involve pharmacists who are employed by the pharmacy they're working for. And actually, a law that would be analogous to the one in the OP would be to hold the pharmacist who refused to dispense birth control legally and financially responsible for any babies that were the result of his or her refusal to dispense said birth control. I'm sure that those who are in favor of the law in the OP would support that law 100%. NOT.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 1, 2016 22:46:16 GMT
No. We have the right to arms. We have the right to be free of arms in our own privately owned business. You don't like my business choices. Don't shop there. How is this different from a pharmacist refusing to dispense birth control? It's his business, he has a right to be free from things that offend his religious beliefs. So therefore if you want birth-control go to another business very few, if any, pharmacists own their own pharmacy. Also the companies aren't telling people they can't shop there or they won't serve them, but that the gun is unwelcome.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 1, 2016 22:55:46 GMT
I think it's very short-sighted. The state will end up spending a mint in legal costs to defend the inevitable challenge. Just because some gun rights folks think something is "fair" doesn't make it constitutional. Can you imagine the insurance??? There would no longer be small independent business's and costs would go up everywhere else. If this were law, you bet your butt insurance companies would raise rates sky high for that kind of liability.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 1, 2016 23:08:20 GMT
Taking a bit of a time-out here to share some thoughts. I hope you'll receive them in the way I'm intending.
One time in a previous thread, you alluded to some time spent in combat. If that's the case, I can see where your feelings of concern might be affected by your prior experience. I'm just speculating here, but if you've been in that sort of a situation and have PTSD or other lasting affects, it might help us better understand where you're coming from.
Our personal history plays a very big part in shaping our fears and concerns. Sometimes that is the known, sometimes it's the unknown. Two examples for myself:
1. I have a phobia of tornadoes. I'd always had a healthy fear of them, but when I was in college out of state, my hometown took a direct hit, and I didn't know if my immediate and extended family members were alive until the following day. Since then, I've had recurring nightmares about being hit by a tornado in a public place. My emotional response to severe weather is not always rational, and it's only been in the past several years that I've been able to help myself by becoming a storm spotter and helping with communication between local spotters and the NWS. My "phobia" is not gone, but by helping to eliminate the unknown and non-control part of the situation, it makes it easier to handle.
2. My son is going to college in Virginia in the fall. I'm terrified. I'm terrified because he'll be within driving distance of Washington D.C. and will have to fly into/out of the airport there. I'm scared to death of a terrorist attack or bombing or whatever. Ironically, a few months ago there was a workplace shooting in the quiet, peaceful, small Mennonite community where he attended college last year, and where my family lives. He was safe, but statistically much more likely to have been injured in that event, than he will be in Virginia. While I know that in my head, in my heart I have absolutely no concerns about sending my daughter to the same college he just graduated from, but I'm still a mess about Virginia.
My point here is, perhaps if Rainbow could share some of the reasons behind her fears and concerns, we might be more tolerant/understanding of them.
Of course, I could be way completely off base and she's just trying to yank our chains, in which case I've made a fool of myself, but I think it's at least worth considering.
And now back to the thread (which, incidentally, has turned into a pretty good discussion topic)
I know you're trying to be helpful here, but this is why you'll never get a comprehensive discussion here. The need to classify people who carry a gun as living in fear, being paranoid, having PTSD or some other sort of mental disorder is what causes most people who carry, not to participate. Unless you're someone like Rainbow, who doesn't care what people think, most others don't want to be labeled in such a manner and affect their enjoyment of the board. So this causes you (general you) to come to the conclusion that Rainbow must be an anomaly and your classification of people who carry must be correct. The problem with that thinking is that carrying a gun is no more living in fear, paranoia and having a mental disorder, than having a fire extinguisher, wearing a seat belt, having insurance or locking your doors, is living in fear, paranoia and having a mental disorder. And people posting like you did is just shutting down a member who stated that she was sharing HER experiences of HER fears based on what has happened to get and then asked bunny to share her background to help her to understand where she was coming from, so that the poster could better understand. She did NOT label rainbow as anything in her post. Asking her to share her fears is NOT accusing her of anything. Not to mention the discussion was trod ding along pretty darn good for a gun thread, and you have to come along, like you always do, and shut someone down for sharing her own experiences. You really need to get a grip Gia, rainbow has been very relatable in this thread--she didn't need your superpowers to jump on a member to defend her.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 1, 2016 23:12:25 GMT
I know you're trying to be helpful here, but this is why you'll never get a comprehensive discussion here. The need to classify people who carry a gun as living in fear, being paranoid, having PTSD or some other sort of mental disorder is what causes most people who carry, not to participate. Unless you're someone like Rainbow, who doesn't care what people think, most others don't want to be labeled in such a manner and affect their enjoyment of the board. So this causes you (general you) to come to the conclusion that Rainbow must be an anomaly and your classification of people who carry must be correct. The problem with that thinking is that carrying a gun is no more living in fear, paranoia and having a mental disorder, than having a fire extinguisher, wearing a seat belt, having insurance or locking your doors, is living in fear, paranoia and having a mental disorder. Oh gosh, no I'm not intending in ANY way to classify, not at all - quite the opposite, actually. I've noticed that people feel Rainbow's views on the subject are over-the-top (paranoia and mental illness have been mentioned more than once), and got to thinking about reasons WHY her views might be more extreme than the typical pro-carry person. Frankly, isn't that why all of the reaction to her threads?
The vast majority of pro- and anti- carry people are regular folks who just have a difference in opinion, for whatever reason. I'm sure there are more extreme views on both sides, as with most everything. Even though what I said is relevant to all of us in one way or another, my point was that in Rainbow's case, there may be some history that we're not aware of that affects her view on this particular subject.
My FIL conceal carries with a license, and he's just a normal guy. I'm sure most are.
I hope that makes sense?
flute4peace. You said NOTHING wrong in your post. Gia is ultra-sensitive in her defense of anything rainbow on the threads. She's over the top aggressive and shuts down others when she thinks that they are picking on her rainbow/bunny. Your post was thoughtful, shared your feelings based on experiences. I'm sure if you do ask bunny ( you might have to ask more than once) she'll eventually answer you.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 1, 2016 23:26:19 GMT
It isn't fear, it's reality. The reality is that someone was shot down the street at the McDonald's. There was another shooting at the gas station. As a civilian, I have not had to defend myself with a gun, thankfully. Hopefully I will never have to. I'd rather be ready than not. This is preparedness, not fear and not paranoia. Nothing wrong with being prepared. Taking a bit of a time-out here to share some thoughts. I hope you'll receive them in the way I'm intending.
One time in a previous thread, you alluded to some time spent in combat. If that's the case, I can see where your feelings of concern might be affected by your prior experience. I'm just speculating here, but if you've been in that sort of a situation and have PTSD or other lasting affects, it might help us better understand where you're coming from.
Our personal history plays a very big part in shaping our fears and concerns. Sometimes that is the known, sometimes it's the unknown. Two examples for myself:
1. I have a phobia of tornadoes. I'd always had a healthy fear of them, but when I was in college out of state, my hometown took a direct hit, and I didn't know if my immediate and extended family members were alive until the following day. Since then, I've had recurring nightmares about being hit by a tornado in a public place. My emotional response to severe weather is not always rational, and it's only been in the past several years that I've been able to help myself by becoming a storm spotter and helping with communication between local spotters and the NWS. My "phobia" is not gone, but by helping to eliminate the unknown and non-control part of the situation, it makes it easier to handle.
2. My son is going to college in Virginia in the fall. I'm terrified. I'm terrified because he'll be within driving distance of Washington D.C. and will have to fly into/out of the airport there. I'm scared to death of a terrorist attack or bombing or whatever. Ironically, a few months ago there was a workplace shooting in the quiet, peaceful, small Mennonite community where he attended college last year, and where my family lives. He was safe, but statistically much more likely to have been injured in that event, than he will be in Virginia. While I know that in my head, in my heart I have absolutely no concerns about sending my daughter to the same college he just graduated from, but I'm still a mess about Virginia.
My point here is, perhaps if Rainbow could share some of the reasons behind her fears and concerns, we might be more tolerant/understanding of them.
Of course, I could be way completely off base and she's just trying to yank our chains, in which case I've made a fool of myself, but I think it's at least worth considering.
And now back to the thread (which, incidentally, has turned into a pretty good discussion topic)
I don't really know how much I want to share. I don't think anyone will change their minds even if I do. Unless you've been in my position you probably wouldn't understand it, and that's OK. Non-military people will never have the understanding of what it's like. Hearing a story is a lot different than being there. You never think that someone is going to actually come at you and try to kill you until it happens. I get that because I was the same way. These days I think it is very foolish to think that nothing bad will ever happen. Clearly we are living in a volatile time. I don't see that going away any time soon, unfortunately.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 1, 2016 23:30:13 GMT
I think that people that have such anxiety that they need a law like that one are suffering from something akin to agoraphobia. They should have all their groceries delivered and call it a day. I rarely post on these threads, but I gotta say I agree with this statement. We are responsible gun owners. Dh and Ds hunt, and our guns and ammo are handled and stored safely. We are for gun rights with reasonable gun control measures. I would hate to think that I was so paranoid about my personal safety that I couldn't run to town for a gallon on milk without packing a sidearm. I think a prescription for Valium would be a much better solution to an issue that is negatively affecting a person's daily life. Are you going to throw the valium at a guy trying to rape you?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 1, 2016 23:34:57 GMT
Taking a bit of a time-out here to share some thoughts. I hope you'll receive them in the way I'm intending.
One time in a previous thread, you alluded to some time spent in combat. If that's the case, I can see where your feelings of concern might be affected by your prior experience. I'm just speculating here, but if you've been in that sort of a situation and have PTSD or other lasting affects, it might help us better understand where you're coming from.
Our personal history plays a very big part in shaping our fears and concerns. Sometimes that is the known, sometimes it's the unknown. Two examples for myself:
1. I have a phobia of tornadoes. I'd always had a healthy fear of them, but when I was in college out of state, my hometown took a direct hit, and I didn't know if my immediate and extended family members were alive until the following day. Since then, I've had recurring nightmares about being hit by a tornado in a public place. My emotional response to severe weather is not always rational, and it's only been in the past several years that I've been able to help myself by becoming a storm spotter and helping with communication between local spotters and the NWS. My "phobia" is not gone, but by helping to eliminate the unknown and non-control part of the situation, it makes it easier to handle.
2. My son is going to college in Virginia in the fall. I'm terrified. I'm terrified because he'll be within driving distance of Washington D.C. and will have to fly into/out of the airport there. I'm scared to death of a terrorist attack or bombing or whatever. Ironically, a few months ago there was a workplace shooting in the quiet, peaceful, small Mennonite community where he attended college last year, and where my family lives. He was safe, but statistically much more likely to have been injured in that event, than he will be in Virginia. While I know that in my head, in my heart I have absolutely no concerns about sending my daughter to the same college he just graduated from, but I'm still a mess about Virginia.
My point here is, perhaps if Rainbow could share some of the reasons behind her fears and concerns, we might be more tolerant/understanding of them.
Of course, I could be way completely off base and she's just trying to yank our chains, in which case I've made a fool of myself, but I think it's at least worth considering.
And now back to the thread (which, incidentally, has turned into a pretty good discussion topic)
I don't really know how much I want to share. I don't think anyone will change their minds even if I do. Unless you've been in my position you probably wouldn't understand it, and that's OK. Non-military people will never have the understanding of what it's like. Hearing a story is a lot different than being there. You never think that someone is going to actually come at you and try to kill you until it happens. I get that because I was the same way. These days I think it is very foolish to think that nothing bad will ever happen. Clearly we are living in a volatile time. I don't see that going away any time soon, unfortunately. Were you in active combat?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 10:44:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 23:35:27 GMT
I know you're trying to be helpful here, but this is why you'll never get a comprehensive discussion here. The need to classify people who carry a gun as living in fear, being paranoid, having PTSD or some other sort of mental disorder is what causes most people who carry, not to participate. Unless you're someone like Rainbow, who doesn't care what people think, most others don't want to be labeled in such a manner and affect their enjoyment of the board. So this causes you (general you) to come to the conclusion that Rainbow must be an anomaly and your classification of people who carry must be correct. The problem with that thinking is that carrying a gun is no more living in fear, paranoia and having a mental disorder, than having a fire extinguisher, wearing a seat belt, having insurance or locking your doors, is living in fear, paranoia and having a mental disorder. Oh gosh, no I'm not intending in ANY way to classify, not at all - quite the opposite, actually. I've noticed that people feel Rainbow's views on the subject are over-the-top (paranoia and mental illness have been mentioned more than once), and got to thinking about reasons WHY her views might be more extreme than the typical pro-carry person. Frankly, isn't that why all of the reaction to her threads?
The vast majority of pro- and anti- carry people are regular folks who just have a difference in opinion, for whatever reason. I'm sure there are more extreme views on both sides, as with most everything. Even though what I said is relevant to all of us in one way or another, my point was that in Rainbow's case, there may be some history that we're not aware of that affects her view on this particular subject.
My FIL conceal carries with a license, and he's just a normal guy. I'm sure most are.
I hope that makes sense?
I understand. One part of your post that led me to believe you were classifying to is... My post wasn't about Rainbow, the point was that carrying does not mean fear, paranoia, PTSD or mental illness. So if you weren't classifying her as such, then I misunderstood. Although, Rainbow has stated time and again that she doesn't carry out of fear, that keeps getting attributed to her and to be honest, often the RESPONSES to her are extreme and over the top. And who wants to take the chance to venture in and give their thoughts and opinions when they don't know if they'll be lumped in with Rainbow as mentally ill, or if it's just Rainbow people have a problem with. As you can see, just people agreeing with anything Rainbow says is a reason for some to vilify that person too.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 1, 2016 23:35:53 GMT
I think any business should make it as safe as possible for all their clients/customers but you cannot foresee every circumstance. If a business wants to ban firearms from their establishment, I don't think it is their responsibility to do anything other than normal/usual safety measures. It isn't as safe as possible if you cannot defend yourself. That puts you in an unsafe situation if you did need to defend yourself and could not.
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Post by elaine on Jul 1, 2016 23:35:54 GMT
Taking a bit of a time-out here to share some thoughts. I hope you'll receive them in the way I'm intending.
One time in a previous thread, you alluded to some time spent in combat. If that's the case, I can see where your feelings of concern might be affected by your prior experience. I'm just speculating here, but if you've been in that sort of a situation and have PTSD or other lasting affects, it might help us better understand where you're coming from.
Our personal history plays a very big part in shaping our fears and concerns. Sometimes that is the known, sometimes it's the unknown. Two examples for myself:
1. I have a phobia of tornadoes. I'd always had a healthy fear of them, but when I was in college out of state, my hometown took a direct hit, and I didn't know if my immediate and extended family members were alive until the following day. Since then, I've had recurring nightmares about being hit by a tornado in a public place. My emotional response to severe weather is not always rational, and it's only been in the past several years that I've been able to help myself by becoming a storm spotter and helping with communication between local spotters and the NWS. My "phobia" is not gone, but by helping to eliminate the unknown and non-control part of the situation, it makes it easier to handle.
2. My son is going to college in Virginia in the fall. I'm terrified. I'm terrified because he'll be within driving distance of Washington D.C. and will have to fly into/out of the airport there. I'm scared to death of a terrorist attack or bombing or whatever. Ironically, a few months ago there was a workplace shooting in the quiet, peaceful, small Mennonite community where he attended college last year, and where my family lives. He was safe, but statistically much more likely to have been injured in that event, than he will be in Virginia. While I know that in my head, in my heart I have absolutely no concerns about sending my daughter to the same college he just graduated from, but I'm still a mess about Virginia.
My point here is, perhaps if Rainbow could share some of the reasons behind her fears and concerns, we might be more tolerant/understanding of them.
Of course, I could be way completely off base and she's just trying to yank our chains, in which case I've made a fool of myself, but I think it's at least worth considering.
And now back to the thread (which, incidentally, has turned into a pretty good discussion topic)
I don't really know how much I want to share. I don't think anyone will change their minds even if I do. Unless you've been in my position you probably wouldn't understand it, and that's OK. Non-military people will never have the understanding of what it's like. Hearing a story is a lot different than being there. You never think that someone is going to actually come at you and try to kill you until it happens. I get that because I was the same way. These days I think it is very foolish to think that nothing bad will ever happen. Clearly we are living in a volatile time. I don't see that going away any time soon, unfortunately. I don't think that anyone on these threads thinks that nothing bad will ever happen. I think we all agree that bad things sometimes happen at the hands of bad people, where we differ is on what we think appropriate solutions and responses should be. You think people being able to carry guns in almost any setting is a way to make yourself safer, others see the same thing as a way to make us all less safe. For many on this and other gun issues threads, more guns in more hands in more settings will make the problem of gun violence worse. I think that you think it will make gun violence less deadly. We all have different levels of everyday anxiety about something bad happening to us or our loved ones, but no one thinks we are all immune .
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Deleted
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May 2, 2024 10:44:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 23:36:57 GMT
You know rainbow , I just want to say thank you for giving flute a real and thoughtful answer. Even the little bit you did just share helps me see where you might be coming from, no matter how much I disagree with your gun views. I completely get having experiences that you know others will never understand unless they have lived through them. I have some of those myself wrt to other issues. I hope that you will share more of your thought process about this if/when you feel ok with it, because even if you don't change minds on this one issue, I think you'd get far different reactions from so many. And, I am sorry that I called you a troll. I had honestly begun to believe that were trolling on guns when you just wouldn't answer, or answered questions with questions. If it's done repeatedly, it really can appear like shit-stirring or trolling. But anways, no buts or qualifiers. Just an apology. I do not promise jello-free threads though! I found too many gross ones not to share
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 1, 2016 23:41:59 GMT
If you don't want me to defend myself in your establishment then you sure as hell better be defending me. Someone will be defending me and ensuring my safety. Defenseless is not an option. But choosing not to patronize an establishment *is* an option. I don't want to be frisked by armed guards at the grocery store, nor I do want to see you open carrying in the same grocery store. If you are that afraid for your safety, then you need to only patronize establishments that will offer the assurances you are looking for, or that will allow you to open carry. You make the argument that more anti-gun laws aren't the answer because people who commit gun crimes don't care about the law in the first place. You seem to think that it's naive of people to think that gun control will make them safer. So it's a bit hypocritical of you, IMO, to then demand the creation of MORE laws, just so you can feel safer. For the record, I'm pretty moderate when it comes to gun control and firearm ownership. I do not personally own a gun, but many of my loved ones are responsible gun owners. I don't know the answer, but I find your expectation completely laughable. I have not demanded for any additional laws. What I posted here is already a done deal, and I had nothing to do with it.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 1, 2016 23:43:57 GMT
I think it's very short-sighted. The state will end up spending a mint in legal costs to defend the inevitable challenge. Just because some gun rights folks think something is "fair" doesn't make it constitutional. What would make it unconstitutional?
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 1, 2016 23:46:16 GMT
How is this different from a pharmacist refusing to dispense birth control? It's his business, he has a right to be free from things that offend his religious beliefs. So therefore if you want birth-control go to another business Not really. If that were true Kosher Jews and Muslim cashiers could refuse to scan people's pork chops at the grocery store. A Muslim clerk at the DMV could refuse to issue a driver's license to a woman. Freedom of religion doesn't mean that you (general) get to impose your beliefs on others. But if an action is legal then why should the business owner have the right to allow a legal activity? There is no difference brown the two situations. Acceptance of one and not the other is based solely on whether one Agrees with the position of the business owner and that's just hypocritical. Either the business owner had a right to preclude legal activities in his establishment or he doesn't. His right to do so shouldn't spend on whether people like or agree with what he's precluding
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 1, 2016 23:49:22 GMT
Rainbow...I am curious...what type of handgun do you own? What type of holster do you carry it in? Is it a side holster or do you carry in your purse? How often do you train with it ? (shooting is a perishable skill) when training what type of drills are you training? What type of ammo? When training do you change the conditions? (For example shooting from prone, in adverse weather, if you wear glasses (RX) shooting without them) How many yards out do you shoot? Do you train strong and weak side? Do you practice malfunctions? There is no snark to these questions. Thanks I really do not feel comfortable answering these questions for security reasons. I will say that I do have prescription range glasses though.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 10:44:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 23:51:26 GMT
Oh gosh, no I'm not intending in ANY way to classify, not at all - quite the opposite, actually. I've noticed that people feel Rainbow's views on the subject are over-the-top (paranoia and mental illness have been mentioned more than once), and got to thinking about reasons WHY her views might be more extreme than the typical pro-carry person. Frankly, isn't that why all of the reaction to her threads?
The vast majority of pro- and anti- carry people are regular folks who just have a difference in opinion, for whatever reason. I'm sure there are more extreme views on both sides, as with most everything. Even though what I said is relevant to all of us in one way or another, my point was that in Rainbow's case, there may be some history that we're not aware of that affects her view on this particular subject.
My FIL conceal carries with a license, and he's just a normal guy. I'm sure most are.
I hope that makes sense?
flute4peace . You said NOTHING wrong in your post. Gia is ultra-sensitive in her defense of anything rainbow on the threads. She's over the top aggressive and shuts down others when she thinks that they are picking on her rainbow/bunny. Your post was thoughtful, shared your feelings based on experiences. I'm sure if you do ask bunny ( you might have to ask more than once) she'll eventually answer you. I was not the least bit aggressive or shutting down conversation. I was completely polite and respectful when sharing a truth about what occurs when labeling people who carry (anyone, not just rainbow), as paranoid, living in fear or mentally ill as others have done on this thread and others. I think your repeated personal attacks on me is the problem and not me respectfully participating in a discussion. I hope we can move on from this nonsense and not derail this thread any longer.
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,726
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Jul 1, 2016 23:55:13 GMT
I rarely post on these threads, but I gotta say I agree with this statement. We are responsible gun owners. Dh and Ds hunt, and our guns and ammo are handled and stored safely. We are for gun rights with reasonable gun control measures. I would hate to think that I was so paranoid about my personal safety that I couldn't run to town for a gallon on milk without packing a sidearm. I think a prescription for Valium would be a much better solution to an issue that is negatively affecting a person's daily life. Are you going to throw the valium at a guy trying to rape you?If I was too scared to leave my house unarmed in broad daylight in fear of being raped, I would be TAKING valium!
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 1, 2016 23:55:16 GMT
I don't really know how much I want to share. I don't think anyone will change their minds even if I do. Unless you've been in my position you probably wouldn't understand it, and that's OK. Non-military people will never have the understanding of what it's like. Hearing a story is a lot different than being there. You never think that someone is going to actually come at you and try to kill you until it happens. I get that because I was the same way. These days I think it is very foolish to think that nothing bad will ever happen. Clearly we are living in a volatile time. I don't see that going away any time soon, unfortunately. I don't think that anyone on these threads thinks that nothing bad will ever happen. I think we all agree that bad things sometimes happen at the hands of bad people, where we differ is on what we think appropriate solutions and responses should be. You think people being able to carry guns in almost any setting is a way to make yourself safer, others see the same thing as a way to make us all less safe. For many on this and other gun issues threads, more guns in more hands in more settings will make the problem of gun violence worse. I think that you think it will make gun violence less deadly. We all have different levels of everyday anxiety about something bad happening to us or our loved ones, but no one thinks we are all immune . This x 1000
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 10:44:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 23:55:53 GMT
Not really. If that were true Kosher Jews and Muslim cashiers could refuse to scan people's pork chops at the grocery store. A Muslim clerk at the DMV could refuse to issue a driver's license to a woman. Freedom of religion doesn't mean that you (general) get to impose your beliefs on others. But if an action is legal then why should the business owner have the right to allow a legal activity? There is no difference brown the two situations. Acceptance of one and not the other is based solely on whether one Agrees with the position of the business owner and that's just hypocritical. Either the business owner had a right to preclude legal activities in his establishment or he doesn't. His right to do so shouldn't spend on whether people like or agree with what he's precluding I'm thinking you were intending to type "not allow" (or preclude or something) a legal activity (guns?) in that first sentence? IMO, there is a huge difference between the two situations. A business owner who establishes a no-carry policy is very different from a pharmacist, grocery clerk or DMV worker who works for a business refusing a legal prescription or a service to someone because their religious beliefs are offended. If they don't like their employer's decision to sell birth control, they don't have to work there. It's not hypocritical at all to say that the constitution does not give you the right to impose your religious beliefs on others. A place of business with a no-gun policy is in no way refusing service to someone. If you're that attached to your gun or you really feel that unsafe shopping without it, you can go elsewhere. (All general yous). ETA: Lauren, it's conversations like these when I'd be able to tell you're an attorney, even if you hadn't told us that a long time ago. I don't mean that in an attorney bash way . . .just that you love you some debate, and some of your phraseology and stuff is just so legal-ish. One of my uncles was an attorney and he used to challenge people during discussions and do the devil's advocate thing all the time, too. Drove me batshit sometimes, but I miss him
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Post by elaine on Jul 1, 2016 23:57:57 GMT
I guess we all should be able to bring our dogs with us everywhere we go. I'm going to demand being able to bring my dog everywhere with me, because she would keep me safer than any firearm I might carry. I should sue any business owner who doesn't let me bring her with me and anything bad happens to me. And don't you dare complain if my dog is sitting on the bench in the booth next to me in a restaurant, or that she is on the floor next to my chair. And I'm going to bring her in the grocery store, because you have all seen what is happening in Target lately with perverts accosting women.
And that the woman who yelled at the crying toddler in her pancake shop was completely in the wrong. Who is she to disallow something legal happening in her establishment? It's not illegal for a toddler to cry.
Two examples of the absurdity of trying to make business owners allow everything that is legal in society take place in their place of business.
I'm also surprised by the lack of understanding of some of the difference between legal discrimination - refusing to give equal service/treatment depending on WHO the person is (not what voluntary actions they are doing or not doing, but their identity) - and setting up rules regarding acceptable behavior in their establishment that they apply to EVERYBODY. The latter is legal, the former is illegal. It doesn't matter whether you (General you) don't like it, or that you define discrimination differently, it is the law and doesn't depend on idiosyncratic definitions.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 2, 2016 0:00:09 GMT
Are you going to throw the valium at a guy trying to rape you? If I was too scared to leave my house unarmed in broad daylight in fear of being raped, I would be TAKING valium! You are aware that rapes can happen in broad daylight, correct?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 2, 2016 0:10:20 GMT
flute4peace . You said NOTHING wrong in your post. Gia is ultra-sensitive in her defense of anything rainbow on the threads. She's over the top aggressive and shuts down others when she thinks that they are picking on her rainbow/bunny. Your post was thoughtful, shared your feelings based on experiences. I'm sure if you do ask bunny ( you might have to ask more than once) she'll eventually answer you. I was not the least bit aggressive or shutting down conversation. I was completely polite and respectful when sharing a truth about what occurs when labeling people who carry (anyone, not just rainbow), as paranoid, living in fear or mentally ill as others have done on this thread and others. I think your repeated personal attacks on me is the problem and not me respectfully participating in a discussion. I hope we can move on from this nonsense and not derail this thread any longer. Of course you would say that. Go back and look at who is attacking who., it's not me doing it to you. You jump on people and you absolutely, most certainly are aggressive and shutting people down, as evidenced by the posters second post. You've been doing it a long time, like a seasoned pro. YOU are the problem here, not I, and you can go on living in your fantasy land pretending that you are not.
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