RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,732
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Jul 4, 2016 13:46:55 GMT
This is a bit long and involved, I'm sorry! I've worked part time in a discount supermarket for nearly 2 years. The coverage hours are 6am-11pm every day. I was interviewed with another guy. He wanted to work evenings and weekends and I wanted to work Monday to Friday daytimes, (the same hours as my DH so that I could actually see something of him), so we complemented each other perfectly. We were both offered the jobs, and the hours were verbally agreed. A lot was only verbal. I didn't even have my hourly rate confirmed in writing until I'd been working there for 14 months. It settled down into a routine for me of Mondays off and 8-2, 3 or 4 Tuesdays to Friday. Fast forward to the beginning of this year. The other guy has left. We're onto our 4th different manager. Two competing stores have opened in the same town, and the takings are down. Upper management has decreed that my shift times are no longer allowed, and I've been trained for slightly different work on a 6am to between 12 and 2, or mid-shifts to cover lunches. We only get our shifts 2 weeks in advance. I was off last week, so I got in today to find that I've been rostered in to work Saturday week. Now that week is the-week-of-5-family-birthdays, including my DH, all within 6 days. That middle Saturday we're all going to see the Secret Life of Pets at the cinema, and my SIL has booked tickets. I spoke to my manager and she said she's given about half a dozen people that weekend off, so everyone who is left is rostered in. She said I should have booked that day as holiday - well I don't work weekends so why would I? I have things on most Saturdays - that's why I don't work Saturdays! But that Saturday they can't change it, so I have to work. I told her I understood, and the family would manage without me. Next month one of our co-workers is getting married and she's invited about half the staff to the evening do, 1.5 hours away, including me. Everybody rushed to book the day and the following day off. I was already off on the Friday for a weekend, booked and paid for, 3.5 hours away with my mother, and all I requested was that I wasn't on the 6am shift on the Monday. So, it turns out that they do want me on the 6am shift on the Monday. I said well OK then, if I must, because I want the others to enjoy the wedding that I can't go to. It was all quite amicable. I was helping them out. I get on well with the manager. I joked with her that she owes me a favour! And then she said... "you already get favours for not working weekends". I reiterated the reason for that, and said whilst I understood that the changes had made things difficult for them, this had all been agreed at my interview and it wasn't me who had changed things. If I had been told that the hours might change in the future, I wouldn't have taken the job. I am adaptable. When people go sick, they always ring me for cover and I almost always work the extra hours for them. I stay late and come in early at short notice. I stayed late today when my shift change was late. I have a conscience. Being told I get favours for having something agreed at my interview really surprised and annoyed me. So, WDTPT? Am I being unreasonable?
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Jul 4, 2016 13:51:52 GMT
If you would not have taken the job if you had been told the hours would change, quit!
Go to one of the competitors.
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Post by myshelly on Jul 4, 2016 13:53:30 GMT
I think you work retail and that's how it is when you work retail.
Any verbal agreement with the manager who hired you doesn't carry over four managers later.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:18:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 13:54:15 GMT
I am sorry that they are changing what they said at the interview, but they as the employer can do so unless you have some type of contract or union agreement that states differently. Or if UK law has anything to protect you, but it doesn't sound like from your point of view that they do. You got those shifts because there was someone else willing to work nights/weekends. I can honestly say it is very hard to find people who want to work every weekend. So in a way you were lucky to get the shifts you wanted for so long. They should have told you in the interview that your schedule was not guaranteed and could be subject to change.
I don't think you are unreasonable, but do think you should expect (now that you know) that you will be working a different set of shifts than you were originally hired for.
Can't you go to the wedding and just not stay as late as the others? I wouldn't totally miss out if it is something you really want to go to. Maybe take a nap earlier that Sunday?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:18:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 13:55:59 GMT
That's the downside to retail. Just because you were hired to work one shift doesn't mean you'll always get it. You either make it known you are not available for weekends or you find a different job.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:18:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 13:56:32 GMT
I think you need a meeting with your manager to reiterate your position and hours. It seems that it's unclear to her if she feels she's doing you a favor by scheduling you the hours you agreed to. It's likely that with all the management change that your info didn't funnel down to her and so she has treated your schedule like every one else's.
It's not difficult to have a few set schedules and then have others who float around it. I think you need to clarify your schedule and what's happened in the past and see if she's on board with that. She may not be and then you will need to consider if you want to stay.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:18:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 13:57:21 GMT
I think you work retail and that's how it is when you work retail. Any verbal agreement with the manager who hired you doesn't carry over four managers later. I agree. Sorry. I know it stinks, but two years and four managers - it's a minor miracle the weekend issue hasn't come up before now.
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NoWomanNoCry
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,856
Jun 25, 2014 21:53:42 GMT
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Jul 4, 2016 13:59:47 GMT
I think you work retail and that's how it is when you work retail. Any verbal agreement with the manager who hired you doesn't carry over four managers later. Exactly this. When I worked retail it didn't matter if I was normally off on a specific day or not if I had plans I requested off just to make sure I got the day off. Also, working jobs like this and then giving you weekends off like they had been doing is very accommodating on their end IMO.
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luvnlifelady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,421
Jun 26, 2014 2:34:35 GMT
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Post by luvnlifelady on Jul 4, 2016 14:07:48 GMT
You're not being unreasonable. I have a similar situation. I have been with my employer the longest and she indicated I would have priority for shifts. I helped cover many shifts while she was understaffed. Now that she's not, I do not get the priority I was promised. Sucks. I'm also the only person working today (even with 4 new hires).
When I called her out on it, she said my availability went from "wanting many hours" to having a difficult schedule. I then told her I only requested not working Sundays (so I could see my DH one day/week) and even then, I do work them and have covered for her on my days off. Sucks to work in the retail industry and my 19 yo DD is learning that too. She was woken up and asked to come in early today even though she's already working 9 hours (a grocery store).
It sucks when the stories change after you're hired.
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Post by secondlife on Jul 4, 2016 14:08:41 GMT
It's common to have shift needs change in retail, and to have irregular shifts at times.
It's also common to have people change jobs when that happens.
I would sit down and have a clear conversation with the scheduling manager. What are the expected periods of availability, can I expect a routine schedule, is the arrangement made when I was hired still valid.
If that works for you, great - if it doesn't, move on.
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psiluvu
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,217
Location: Canada's Capital
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:26 GMT
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Post by psiluvu on Jul 4, 2016 14:11:04 GMT
IMO that's to be expected in retail especially with the change in managers.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 4, 2016 14:11:14 GMT
I'm with the other Peas - this is retail and it is expected to work varying hours. If this is a problem for you, then it will probably be on you to find another job.
I had a similar situation when I worked at Penney's years ago. I got hired for seasonal work, to bring in some extra $$$ for the holidays. I started early October and was expected to stay on until about February. I told the store manager at my interview that I had no problem picking up shifts at the last minute because I lived close by. However, I could not work Thanksgiving or Black Friday because I already had plans out of town. I understood if that was a deal-breaker. He said no problem. Fast forward to the week of Thanksgiving when the schedule came out and sure enough, I'm on it. I tell the scheduler about the conflict, she laughs at me and says I need to cancel my plans. I tell my immediate supervisor that I made arrangements before getting hired and that I simply will not be there on Thursday and Friday. It made me mad because I knew I'd probably lose my job over it and I would have taken a different job elsewhere if this wasn't cleared ahead of time. It ended up working out fine but I had to be willing to leave if I didn't get what I wanted.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,760
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jul 4, 2016 14:21:01 GMT
Bear in mind the OP is in the UK and UK employment law will be different. First thing, she works for the company not the manager, her contract of employment is within the company not the manager. If memory serves me right OP is/was entitled to a written contract of employment within 13 weeks of her start date. Should outline, rate of pay, hours, holidays etc etc. Lots of info here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_labour_law#Contract_of_employment
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Post by Really Red on Jul 4, 2016 14:24:42 GMT
A good employee is worth more than what she's getting. Four years is nearly a lifetime in retail and heck yes, I think she deserves what she was offered in the beginning.
OP - you have gone out of your way to be helpful. How much do you need this job? I suspect that if you look for another PT job, you'll have to work Saturdays, but you are not being treated well for a long-time employee. I'd start shopping around.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:18:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 14:30:51 GMT
Unfortunately, this is the working world. New management always is a problem. And most of them don't care about your agreements with old management or how good an employee you are. Sorry this has happened to you.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 4, 2016 14:35:14 GMT
Do you have a contract or something in writing?
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Post by houston249 on Jul 4, 2016 15:10:19 GMT
Validated.
If you work in the states, if the agreed upon hours were written on you application, then it is a contract between you and the company. If they fire you, the unemployment will be approved.
I have worked retail/service my whole life. For the life of me i can't figure out why management would want to "poke the bear". They have a great employee, but because (please insert a 2 year olds voice here) "it's not fair!!!!" And "no one made that agreement with them" they have to change the original agreement. It breeds resentment and distrust that spreads to all the staff. Hey management! Life is not fair! That statement includes you. Once your stafff realizes you will break their word with your most devoted emplyees they will break their word with you and every other person they work for. No wonder management has such a large turn over. Sorry you have to deal with them.
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,732
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Jul 4, 2016 15:23:43 GMT
Oh the contract says they can roster me in to work any hours they want me to, but I didn't receive that until after I had been working there for several weeks. As soon as it arrived, I hand-delivered a letter clarifying what had been agreed at my interview, to cover my back. When manager #4 took over last December I printed it off again and gave it to her. All the managers have done their best to accommodate me, and I've done my best to accommodate them. It has been a pretty good relationship and I thought everybody was happy about it. When the duty managers ring me to ask for extra hours, they always thank me and I always feel appreciated. The manager herself has said several times that if a shift doesn't suit, to ask for a change. As long as I work my 20+ hours, they don't usually mind when those are. It's just unfortunate that on those 2 occasions they have allowed too many people to be off at once so I can't change shift. I'm not asking for case law or anything, just validation that I'm allowed to be a bit pissed off at what she said! Having said that, I'm constantly keeping a weather eye open for something with better conditions. There aren't many part-time jobs out there though, and quite often I think "better the devil you know" - until that devil trips me up with its forked tail and I start looking again.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jul 4, 2016 15:31:22 GMT
What was agreed to at your interview was 2 years ago. They've moved your cheese, which is normal. Changes such as you have had occur regularly and it's unreasonable for you to expect to be excluded.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 4, 2016 16:02:31 GMT
It is unfortunate that for 2 times you didn't get to do what you wanted and it is okay to be irritated, buy it think it is also okay for management to give those days off to others on occasion. Those employees probably work the weekend quite often, so if every once in a while they need a Saturday off, I think they deserve it.
If there is a special day coming up, then you need to make sure and request it off.
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Post by originalvanillabean on Jul 4, 2016 16:09:54 GMT
When you started, it was a mutually beneficial schedule.
Now things have changed and it isn't.
Get used to it or find something else.
I'm sorry. Sounds like you are good to them and now they take it for granted.
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Post by its me mg on Jul 4, 2016 16:24:42 GMT
Here's the thing ... she IS doing you a favor. Because she "inherited" your non-existant-in-the-retail-world availabilty, it has become her problem...and she needed you one weekend day when you literally have them all off. Yeah, I know .. you were promised ... But seriously ... no one in the retail/restaurant world just gets to work mon-fri and weekends off. That's not how the industry works at all. It's cool they were able to accomodate you and still do. I'm sure you're fabulous and you've earned it. You wouldn't still be on this set schedule if you weren't. Don't get me wrong. But as far as the "I do you a favor every weekend" she's 10000000% right. ETA: You'll be hard pressed to find a job that would entertain this availability if you were going elsewhere. Not a threat, but just a gentle reminder.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jul 4, 2016 16:42:23 GMT
I would be annoyed. Pretty much every job I've ever applied for will have a section where the applicant lists their available hours to work. If the employer is willing to offer the job to that person KNOWING they are only available T-F from 8-2, they shouldn't suddenly expect that person to be available at other times outside of those stated on the application. If they make the applicant aware that they *could* call them in or schedule them to work hours outside of their stated availability and the applicant accepts the job knowing that, it's another story.
Under the circumstances listed in the OP, I don't think she should expect that her hours will change just because she has a different manager now. Her situation hasn't changed, so her availability hasn't changed either. I would have a meeting with the new round of managers reiterating the hours I am available, and I would let them know that I plan to start looking for a different job immediately if they are unable to work around the hours that I was hired for. This would at least allow the employer the option of keeping on a flexible, hard working and fully trained employee.
I have an elementary school aged kid who is too young to leave home alone for any length of time that I'm primarily responsible for, so I totally understand. There is no way I would even consider a job where the hours didn't correlate with my availability.
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Post by bc2ca on Jul 4, 2016 16:51:18 GMT
It does sound like they have been scheduling your shifts first and other people around you for quite a long time and, in retail, this is doing you a favor whether you realize it or not. It is unfortunate that the Saturday you are booked to work is on a weekend when you have so much going on, but around here if you don't specifically block off a day you are considered available to schedule even if it is outside of the days/hours you usually work.
Did the store respond to your letter stating the hours you agreed to work when you clarified them after receiving the employment contract? I'm not sure this letter amends to the contract unless they agreed to it in writing.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 4, 2016 16:52:45 GMT
But it seems on the contract given, they stated she could be scheduled to work at anytime. I know she wrote them a letter, but was anything ever changed on the contract? If not, then the company is in the right.
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Jul 4, 2016 17:09:13 GMT
Oh the contract says they can roster me in to work any hours they want me to, but I didn't receive that until after I had been working there for several weeks. As soon as it arrived, I hand-delivered a letter clarifying what had been agreed at my interview, to cover my back. When manager #4 took over last December I printed it off again and gave it to her. All the managers have done their best to accommodate me, and I've done my best to accommodate them. It has been a pretty good relationship and I thought everybody was happy about it. When the duty managers ring me to ask for extra hours, they always thank me and I always feel appreciated. The manager herself has said several times that if a shift doesn't suit, to ask for a change. As long as I work my 20+ hours, they don't usually mind when those are. It's just unfortunate that on those 2 occasions they have allowed too many people to be off at once so I can't change shift. I'm not asking for case law or anything, just validation that I'm allowed to be a bit pissed off at what she said! Having said that, I'm constantly keeping a weather eye open for something with better conditions. There aren't many part-time jobs out there though, and quite often I think "better the devil you know" - until that devil trips me up with its forked tail and I start looking again. I'll validate you. Are you on a zero hours contract? When I worked retail (and im in the UK) it was set hours and days and did not include weekends. My sis works a zero hours contract and they pretend that it is for YOUR flexibility (to give you the hours you want) when actually it is just for their benefit. Stand your ground, don't be 'guilted' in to anything and keep looking
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Post by jamielynn on Jul 4, 2016 17:20:33 GMT
If you don't "need" the job badly right now, talk to the new manager. Let them know you need the set shifts you have had for obligations you've made.. Don't say for your family, everyone has a family and no one has a family more important than the next.
If you truly mean it let them know if your regular schedule can't be accommodated you will need to seek new employment; and do it.
I've been the employee in jobs where those hours were needed, and the manager. Typically what you are having done is sadly common in those industries. The employer needs strong coverage when open and typically what worked 3 months ago and 3 years ago won't work forever from their standpoint. That's typically why there is no written contract of hours or shifts.
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Post by its me mg on Jul 4, 2016 17:37:44 GMT
The thing to also consider is that OP is not technically unavailable, she just expects her preferred schedule. We all have a preferred schedule, but I certainly don't work mine!
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Post by disneypal on Jul 4, 2016 17:48:30 GMT
I think I would just talk with the manager and remind hm/her that when you accepted the job and for the past 2 years, it was understood that you worked day shift and would be off on the weekends. State that since you are willing to cover others shifts and have been a good and reliable employee and that you would like to continue with that schedule and if it is a problem to do so, can they explain why.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Jul 4, 2016 17:59:19 GMT
Your question is whether you are being unreasonable. And that's tough to answer. Based on YOUR understanding of the agreement (which IS two years and four managers old), then it's reasonable for you to expect it to continue. But from a retail management perspective, you are unreasonable in your expectation to be treated differently (I.e., "better" ) than everyone else.
It would be advisable to have a conversation with current management about what will happen going forward. Ideally, you might get what you want in writing, but I would bet they won't commit to anything like that in writing. Your best bet is to outwait manager number four and hope manager number five will schedule you as you want.
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