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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 22, 2016 12:17:27 GMT
So I think the differnce is that businesses, restaurants, and others aren't refusing to serve black people. They aren't putting glass in their food or verbally attacking them. They aren't calling for war on black lives matter like they are policemen. I can be outraged by the shootings and still back the blue. I have never heard of businesses refusing to serve LEO. That must be a local thing. Personally I believe any chain that did it would suffer such a backlash and lose so many customers that they would quickly regret it. freecharlie and I do not live in the same area, but my area just had an issue with a restaurant refusing to serve LEO.
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Post by elaine on Jul 22, 2016 12:19:33 GMT
@leowife , your comments are out of place on this thread. But, they are a prime example of why the huge divide. You refuse to understand the 24/7/365 nature of being a person of color vs. choosing to be an LEO. You have your thread, and it is equally okay for Loydene and Dani-Mani to have theirs. That you, representing LEO, can't respect that is part of the problem, not the solution.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,538
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Jul 22, 2016 12:21:27 GMT
So I think the differnce is that businesses, restaurants, and others aren't refusing to serve black people. They aren't putting glass in their food ... I live in central Ohio where the "glass in the food" incident occurred and it was determined that the piece of glass in the officer's sandwich was actually some small chipped off shards of the ceramic plate. It was not put there purposely ( per the investigators). The health department is checking the restaurant as well. Columbus Ohio Police @columbuspolice
FYI on officer injured by glass in sandwich: At this point in the investigation there is no reason to believe it was intentional. #CPD 11:33 AM - 19 Jul 2016 I once ate at a restaurant and there was a piece of glass in my Cobb salad.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,538
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Jul 22, 2016 12:24:25 GMT
DaniMani feeling unwelcome is exactly why I listed for the webmaster to have a separate political thread, but it was nixed.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,767
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jul 22, 2016 12:33:13 GMT
So I think the differnce is that businesses, restaurants, and others aren't refusing to serve black people. They aren't putting glass in their food or verbally attacking them. They aren't calling for war on black lives matter like they are policemen. I can be outraged by the shootings and still back the blue. Not sure who "they" are, but I've personally been verbally attacked just for existing. 1) I was volunteering, greeting guests/collecting donations for an event. We were instructed to ask people who came into the event if they would like to make a donation (there was a 'suggested donation' to enter). A women took issue with my presence and began yelling "Don't talk to me, Nigger". I did not respond to her, so she picked up my full, metal water bottle and threw it at me, striking my leg. I still have the bruise and I had to throw away my favorite bottle. The bright spot was that every person who heard her appeared to be appalled. I had an armed officer at my post (because of the donation money) and my amazing (white, female) officer chased her down and made it clear that she was unwelcome. I still had to finish the rest of my shift with an aching leg. I just turned around when I couldn't blink fast enough to keep the tears from leaking out. I don't feel like typing up the other incident, but it basically involved "accidentally overhearing" the staff say that black people were unwelcome to shop in a particular store. I left. It is so awful to hear about those experiences, you mention officers were present, police officers? Was the woman arrested for actual bodily harm and/or hate speech. I think if that happened here (UK) she would def be explaining herself to the Police. Totally unacceptable behaviour.
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on Jul 22, 2016 12:33:42 GMT
So I think the differnce is that businesses, restaurants, and others aren't refusing to serve black people. They aren't putting glass in their food or verbally attacking them. They aren't calling for war on black lives matter like they are policemen. I can be outraged by the shootings and still back the blue. Not sure who "they" are, but I've personally been verbally attacked just for existing. 1) I was volunteering, greeting guests/collecting donations for an event. We were instructed to ask people who came into the event if they would like to make a donation (there was a 'suggested donation' to enter). A women took issue with my presence and began yelling "Don't talk to me, Nigger". I did not respond to her, so she picked up my full, metal water bottle and threw it at me, striking my leg. I still have the bruise and I had to throw away my favorite bottle. The bright spot was that every person who heard her appeared to be appalled. I had an armed officer at my post (because of the donation money) and my amazing (white, female) officer chased her down and made it clear that she was unwelcome. I still had to finish the rest of my shift with an aching leg. I just turned around when I couldn't blink fast enough to keep the tears from leaking out. I don't feel like typing up the other incident, but it basically involved "accidentally overhearing" the staff say that black people were unwelcome to shop in a particular store. I left. Oh my goodness that is HORRIBLE! I am truly sorry that happened to you. May I ask why that woman was not arrested on the spot, if there was an armed officer there? Even if not, the police should've been called as that is assault loud and clear. I hope your leg feels better soon. This really does make me want to cry, and scream. Some days I have no faith in humans.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Jul 22, 2016 13:10:13 GMT
So I think the differnce is that businesses, restaurants, and others aren't refusing to serve black people. They aren't putting glass in their food or verbally attacking them. They aren't calling for war on black lives matter like they are policemen. I can be outraged by the shootings and still back the blue. Not sure who "they" are, but I've personally been verbally attacked just for existing. 1) I was volunteering, greeting guests/collecting donations for an event. We were instructed to ask people who came into the event if they would like to make a donation (there was a 'suggested donation' to enter). A women took issue with my presence and began yelling "Don't talk to me, Nigger". I did not respond to her, so she picked up my full, metal water bottle and threw it at me, striking my leg. I still have the bruise and I had to throw away my favorite bottle. The bright spot was that every person who heard her appeared to be appalled. I had an armed officer at my post (because of the donation money) and my amazing (white, female) officer chased her down and made it clear that she was unwelcome. I still had to finish the rest of my shift with an aching leg. I just turned around when I couldn't blink fast enough to keep the tears from leaking out. I don't feel like typing up the other incident, but it basically involved "accidentally overhearing" the staff say that black people were unwelcome to shop in a particular store. I left. I am sorry that happened to you. That type of incident most white people will never experience. I have never been hated, hit or called hateful names just for the color of my skin. My mouth, certainly, that gets abuses hurled at me. 😊
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Jul 22, 2016 13:11:45 GMT
I'm not sure that this should have been the first thread that I read this morning, but it really bothers me. I purposely avoided the other one, and I hoped that there would have been more respect for real empathy and boundaries. Oops!
Until we (as a nation) understand that black lives matter, then we refuse to see a glaring problem. I can't believe that in some circles that embryonic lives matter more than living, breathing humans!
How can BLM be a hate group? It began so that a voice could be heard. That voice is still drowned out by hate and intolerance. The Southern Poverty Law Center has declared that BLM is not a hate group. ( the SPLC is the main legal group in the US who as part of their mission identifies hate groups in our country - regardless of color)
I worry about the messages that our nation sends. We are becoming too intolerant, too afraid, and less kind. All of that can change person by person. Maybe Ellen says it often, but it needs to be heard - "Be kind to one another."
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Post by mikklynn on Jul 22, 2016 13:34:50 GMT
Don't bother. People are going to see what they want. as a person of color who has been on this board since 2001, I think I'm about to take a permanent break. I've never felt so unwelcome here in my life. Some of the comments made recently are just disgusting and they hurt. LEO chose their jobs. We didn't choose our color. I wish some of you could live just a few hours in my shoes to truly get a understanding that things are so so so very different in this world when you are a person of color. But since you cant, theres just no way to truly get it. Please don't take a break. We need all perspectives on this board. The BLM organization does not condone violence. But, there are people who join the peaceful protests for their own agenda. I think the OP was well stated. We can speak out against the unjust shootings of people of color and still support the blue. There is no excuse for attacks on law enforcement. The incident in my home of Minneapolis with Philandro Castile is a perfect example. If I had reached for my wallet, as a middle aged white woman, it's pretty obvious I would not have shot. We have to talk about these things.
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Loydene
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,639
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Jul 8, 2014 16:31:47 GMT
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Post by Loydene on Jul 22, 2016 16:32:00 GMT
@ dani mani If I said something that hurt you I apologize. That was not my intent, nor was it my intent to disparage the "Black Lives Matter" movement. I understand that Black people are feeling imperiled and a tag line is necessary to illuminate the sentiment. I do believe that particular tag line is divisive and, in my mind, doesn't speak against the underlying problem. "Justice Matters" "Innocence Matters" But in writing this out, I think I do better understand the point of that tag line. But in any case, I shouldn't have used it in a direct comparison to the other tag line. I'm sorry. @leowife I did not believe I was "calling you out". If I intended to "call you out", I would have done so on your thread. While I don't consider your posts here "rude", I didn't consider MY original post rude ... just not what you wanted to see on the thread you started. But you are absolutely free to comment as you wish -- but here, thoughtful comments are hoped for and anticipated, not warned away. I stand by what I said and I will not condone a mindless, unquestioning "Back the Blue" sentiment. I do support honest, hardworking, law abiding police officers -- I said that in my first post. But, as I said, that doesn't make me blind to wrongful conduct. Just because the person who did the wrongful conduct is wearing "blue" will not make me think that the commission of a crime is "okay". If honest, hardworking law abiding LEO really ARE trying to make a change (as you suggest), then they should be making those efforts more noticeable and public. Frankly -- what I'd think would have been acceptable would have been the police shooter of that therapist at the very least disarmed by his (presumptive hard working, honest, law abiding) partner when other people/officers/reporters arrived on that scene. If the partner saw wrongful conduct, then he should have acted regarding the person who DID the wrongful conduct ... no matter what color was being worn. I think that policing is an important job. Those who wish to police our communities are given, and take on, a huge responsibility -- and because they are granted authority and power of life and death, they are required to exercise that authority and power with humility, with intelligence, with the greatest discretion, and with a commitment to justice for ALL people.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 2:04:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 20:08:19 GMT
as a person of color who has been on this board since 2001, I think I'm about to take a permanent break. I've never felt so unwelcome here in my life. Some of the comments made recently are just disgusting and they hurt. I'm truly sorry you are feeling this. This is one of my pet peeves about this board, that people are made to feel unwelcome and they feel the need to leave instead of the offenders. I hope you will not leave, you have just as much to offer as anyone else here. I wish you would stay and educate where you can, instead of giving in to the idea that you're not welcome. I truly don't feel that is the case, even with the people that you might disagree with or that may disagree with you. I wish you (and others) would address a situation when it comes up instead of remaining silent through each one and then grouping them all together as a vague assessment later. By doing the latter, no one has a chance to learn why what they said might be seen as disgusting and hurtful, explain themselves better so that their words that weren't meant to be hurtful might be better understood and apologize for doing so. Please stay and know that you are a valuable member of this community.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 2:04:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 20:12:31 GMT
So I think the differnce is that businesses, restaurants, and others aren't refusing to serve black people. They aren't putting glass in their food or verbally attacking them. They aren't calling for war on black lives matter like they are policemen. I can be outraged by the shootings and still back the blue. I have never heard of businesses refusing to serve LEO. That must be a local thing. Personally I believe any chain that did it would suffer such a backlash and lose so many customers that they would quickly regret it. There has been at least one in Michigan that refused to do business with a man when it found out he was a police officer. He's now out of business. (Kalamazoo tree service) There has been a few employees that refused to serve police officers. They were fired. One that comes to mind first for me is taco Bell.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Jul 22, 2016 21:07:14 GMT
I have never heard of businesses refusing to serve LEO. That must be a local thing. Personally I believe any chain that did it would suffer such a backlash and lose so many customers that they would quickly regret it. There has been at least one in Michigan that refused to do business with a man when it found out he was a police officer. He's now out of business. (Kalamazoo tree service) There has been a few employees that refused to serve police officers. They were fired. One that comes to mind first for me is taco Bell. First I've heard of it although I am a couple of hours from Kzoo so that is understandable. I am glad they fired employees that refused to serve LEO. That is just nuts. Save
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Post by elaine on Jul 22, 2016 21:23:01 GMT
as a person of color who has been on this board since 2001, I think I'm about to take a permanent break. I've never felt so unwelcome here in my life. Some of the comments made recently are just disgusting and they hurt. I'm truly sorry you are feeling this. This is one of my pet peeves about this board, that people are made to feel unwelcome and they feel the need to leave instead of the offenders. I hope you will not leave, you have just as much to offer as anyone else here. I wish you would stay and educate where you can, instead of giving in to the idea that you're not welcome. I truly don't feel that is the case, even with the people that you might disagree with or that may disagree with you. I wish you (and others) would address a situation when it comes up instead of remaining silent through each one and then grouping them all together as a vague assessment later. By doing the latter, no one has a chance to learn why what they said might be seen as disgusting and hurtful, explain themselves better so that their words that weren't meant to be hurtful might be better understood and apologize for doing so. Please stay and know that you are a valuable member of this community. I think some of the issue isn't about disagreeing about concepts, ideas and philosophies, but about hearing negative things about who one is. Usually it is negative comments about LGBT people here - and you Gia fight vehemently for those people (the offenders in that case) to be allowed to stay and say what they want - and recently it has been about people of color, due to the various shootings and protests. I don't think that Dani would leave over a simple disagreement - I have never over the years seen that type of behavior from her - but I can understand her feelings about the negativity about Black lives here - part of WHO she is, not simply something she believes - and how that must feel. I, too, hope that Dani-Mani stays, but I certainly understand her hurt right now and her feeling that it might be time for a break.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 2:04:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 21:35:55 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 21:52:40 GMT
I'm truly sorry you are feeling this. This is one of my pet peeves about this board, that people are made to feel unwelcome and they feel the need to leave instead of the offenders. I hope you will not leave, you have just as much to offer as anyone else here. I wish you would stay and educate where you can, instead of giving in to the idea that you're not welcome. I truly don't feel that is the case, even with the people that you might disagree with or that may disagree with you. I wish you (and others) would address a situation when it comes up instead of remaining silent through each one and then grouping them all together as a vague assessment later. By doing the latter, no one has a chance to learn why what they said might be seen as disgusting and hurtful, explain themselves better so that their words that weren't meant to be hurtful might be better understood and apologize for doing so. Please stay and know that you are a valuable member of this community. I think some of the issue isn't about disagreeing about concepts, ideas and philosophies, but about hearing negative things about who one is. I agree. It goes both ways. Being labeled a racist, bigot, homophobe, xenophobe, less than human, etc. as WHO ONE IS based on questions answered or thoughts given in a discussion. Discussion and education is thrown out the window in favor of labeling, diminishing and often the outright destroying of those with the "wrong" thought or opinion. My opposition to that is what you are describing here: Your description of my "fight" for reasoned discussion as "fighting" for the allowance of bigotry is wrong, misleading and unfair. All I've ever "fought" for is reasoned, rational discussion as opposed to silencing and/or destroying people who don't understand, aren't familiar with, or have been taught otherwise.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 14, 2024 2:04:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 21:56:20 GMT
There has been at least one in Michigan that refused to do business with a man when it found out he was a police officer. He's now out of business. (Kalamazoo tree service) There has been a few employees that refused to serve police officers. They were fired. One that comes to mind first for me is taco Bell. First I've heard of it although I am a couple of hours from Kzoo so that is understandable. I am glad they fired employees that refused to serve LEO. That is just nuts. Save Tree Service refused to cut down tree after finding out the customer was a police officer This happened aired July 13th. I watched the post go viral on FB. The owner had a record. He also attempted to change his business name.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Jul 23, 2016 0:36:40 GMT
@mytnice and @dknitter I hope that these businesses fired those involved, if not, I hope they go out of business like some of those have who refused to serve, bake, etc. LGBT people. I believe businesses have the right to refuse service to those who are disruptive to their business or cause issues but sexuality and job choices are not valid reasons in my book.
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Post by elaine on Jul 23, 2016 0:52:33 GMT
I think some of the issue isn't about disagreeing about concepts, ideas and philosophies, but about hearing negative things about who one is. I agree. It goes both ways. Being labeled a racist, bigot, homophobe, xenophobe, less than human, etc. as WHO ONE IS based on questions answered or thoughts given in a discussion. Discussion and education is thrown out the window in favor of labeling, diminishing and often the outright destroying of those with the "wrong" thought or opinion. My opposition to that is what you are describing here: Your description of my "fight" for reasoned discussion as "fighting" for the allowance of bigotry is wrong, misleading and unfair. All I've ever "fought" for is reasoned, rational discussion as opposed to silencing and/or destroying people who don't understand, aren't familiar with, or have been taught otherwise.And this IS the crux of the problem, IMO. There is no "discussion" that needs to be had about Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Transgenders, Blacks, Latinos, etc., deserving the same rights, respect and treatment as everyone else. When you support people being able to say the same shit year after year about sinning, that it is okay to pull Blacks over for things that whites would never be pulled over for, that people should be able to discriminate based on the sexual orientation of the people seeking their services, etc. , you don't support reasoned discussion, you just support giving them a megaphone and soapbox to spew from. It would be one thing if those people you champion actually listened to and then changed what they had previously "learned," but they don't, they just continue to spew what are hurtful and hateful sentiments - some for years on end. And that causes people who fit the identities of those targeted to want to leave this board because they don't feel valued. No one. No one. No one. No one should have to "discuss" the validity of their identity. No one should have to spend time "educating" others time and time again as to why they, and people like them, deserve the same respect and rights and treatment as everyone else.
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Post by jenis40 on Jul 23, 2016 1:29:27 GMT
I have never heard of businesses refusing to serve LEO. That must be a local thing. Personally I believe any chain that did it would suffer such a backlash and lose so many customers that they would quickly regret it. freecharlie and I do not live in the same area, but my area just had an issue with a restaurant refusing to serve LEO. Was this the restaurant owned by Asian immigrants? If so, a follow up story was done explaining that the language barrier had caused a huge misunderstanding and that the owners weren't saying that cops couldn't eat there. The owners then offered to let any officer eat free (not sure of the time frame). It appeared that an over zealous LEO tweeted the information about this restaurant and the restaurant owners received death threats. A interpreter was brought out and the was cleared up. IMO not ok to refuse service and not ok that the owners received death threats.
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Post by mzza111 on Jul 23, 2016 1:45:08 GMT
I agree. It goes both ways. Being labeled a racist, bigot, homophobe, xenophobe, less than human, etc. as WHO ONE IS based on questions answered or thoughts given in a discussion. Discussion and education is thrown out the window in favor of labeling, diminishing and often the outright destroying of those with the "wrong" thought or opinion. My opposition to that is what you are describing here: Your description of my "fight" for reasoned discussion as "fighting" for the allowance of bigotry is wrong, misleading and unfair. All I've ever "fought" for is reasoned, rational discussion as opposed to silencing and/or destroying people who don't understand, aren't familiar with, or have been taught otherwise.And this IS the crux of the problem, IMO. There is no "discussion" that needs to be had about Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Transgenders, Blacks, Latinos, etc., deserving the same rights, respect and treatment as everyone else. When you support people being able to say the same shit year after year about sinning, that it is okay to pull Blacks over for things that whites would never be pulled over for, that people should be able to discriminate based on the sexual orientation of the people seeking their services, etc. , you don't support reasoned discussion, you just support giving them a megaphone and soapbox to spew from. It would be one thing if those people you champion actually listened to and then changed what they had previously "learned," but they don't, they just continue to spew what are hurtful and hateful sentiments - some for years on end. And that causes people who fit the identities of those targeted to want to leave this board because they don't feel valued. No one. No one. No one. No one should have to "discuss" the validity of their identity. No one should have to spend time "educating" others time and time again as to why they, and people like them, deserve the same respect and rights and treatment as everyone else. Perfectly said! Too bad it will never truly be heard by Gia.
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,177
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Jul 23, 2016 2:03:57 GMT
So I think the differnce is that businesses, restaurants, and others aren't refusing to serve black people. They aren't putting glass in their food or verbally attacking them. They aren't calling for war on black lives matter like they are policemen. I can be outraged by the shootings and still back the blue. Not sure who "they" are, but I've personally been verbally attacked just for existing. 1) I was volunteering, greeting guests/collecting donations for an event. We were instructed to ask people who came into the event if they would like to make a donation (there was a 'suggested donation' to enter). A women took issue with my presence and began yelling "Don't talk to me, Nigger". I did not respond to her, so she picked up my full, metal water bottle and threw it at me, striking my leg. I still have the bruise and I had to throw away my favorite bottle. The bright spot was that every person who heard her appeared to be appalled. I had an armed officer at my post (because of the donation money) and my amazing (white, female) officer chased her down and made it clear that she was unwelcome. I still had to finish the rest of my shift with an aching leg. I just turned around when I couldn't blink fast enough to keep the tears from leaking out. I don't feel like typing up the other incident, but it basically involved "accidentally overhearing" the staff say that black people were unwelcome to shop in a particular store. I left. Absolutely appalling that someone would treat anyone like that. And it's very disheartening to realize that there are people who think this way - and are willing to say and do things like that to another human being. It must hurt to remember and think about it, but please understand that knowing this goes on helps open others' eyes to things we never see or experience. I teach and have many students of color. I see the incredible innocence of my adorable kindergarten students, and watch the junior high kids flirting and I have challenging conversations with them in my small groups. They become very important to me and I learn from them too. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that the kind of thing you experienced may be in their future too.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 2:04:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2016 2:46:28 GMT
I agree. It goes both ways. Being labeled a racist, bigot, homophobe, xenophobe, less than human, etc. as WHO ONE IS based on questions answered or thoughts given in a discussion. Discussion and education is thrown out the window in favor of labeling, diminishing and often the outright destroying of those with the "wrong" thought or opinion. My opposition to that is what you are describing here: Your description of my "fight" for reasoned discussion as "fighting" for the allowance of bigotry is wrong, misleading and unfair. All I've ever "fought" for is reasoned, rational discussion as opposed to silencing and/or destroying people who don't understand, aren't familiar with, or have been taught otherwise.And this IS the crux of the problem, IMO. There is no "discussion" that needs to be had about Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Transgenders, Blacks, Latinos, etc., deserving the same rights, respect and treatment as everyone else. What I'm talking about is the nuances in the discussion, the statements that never get said, the questions that never get asked, because that's the stance and attitude taken in every single discussion started. Boil it down to that and an "end of discussion" attitudes makes sure no one is educated. It's that attitude that despite what you've been taught from the beginning, and what science has said for centuries, you better conform your thoughts right now to what "we're" telling you, be silent, or be socially annihilated. I don't think anyone's ever said that here and if they did, I wasn't supporting them. That's nothing I've ever supported. If you think it is, it's because you demand absolute, immediate conformity without hearing what is actually being said. That's you not listening again. That's because you (general you) don't discuss, you demand conformity. And it's demanded with hurtful and hateful sentiments. For years on end. You also can't lump everyone into the identity of one poster you feel you can't get through to. Because those actions ALSO cause people to leave this board because people refuse to hear what is actually being said and prefer to just label and socially annihilate when they don't conform to your version of what's being said. If you (general you) would ignore that poster you feel doesn't listen, instead of fighting with them, other discussion could happen and they might become enlightened in the process. I agree, because that still isn't what I'm saying. I'll say it once again in hopes you'll hear what is being said to you... Being labeled as paranoid, living in fear, having mental problems, racist, bigot, homophobe, xenophobe, less than human, etc. as WHO ONE IS based on questions answered or thoughts given in a discussion is wrong. Discussion and education is thrown out the window in favor of labeling, diminishing and often the outright destroying of those with the "wrong" thought or opinion. Your description of my "fight" for reasoned discussion as "fighting" for the allowance of bigotry is wrong, misleading and unfair. All I've ever "fought" for is reasoned, rational discussion as opposed to silencing and/or destroying people who don't understand, aren't familiar with, or have been taught otherwise.
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Post by mzza111 on Jul 23, 2016 3:26:39 GMT
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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Jul 23, 2016 3:29:14 GMT
I have never heard of businesses refusing to serve LEO. That must be a local thing. Personally I believe any chain that did it would suffer such a backlash and lose so many customers that they would quickly regret it. There has been at least one in Michigan that refused to do business with a man when it found out he was a police officer. He's now out of business. (Kalamazoo tree service) There has been a few employees that refused to serve police officers. They were fired. One that comes to mind first for me is taco Bell. There was a Zaxbys (sorry, I can't remember the location) where the employees put a lot of the hottest sauce on some LEO's food, making it inedible.
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Post by elaine on Jul 23, 2016 3:46:24 GMT
And this IS the crux of the problem, IMO. There is no "discussion" that needs to be had about Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Transgenders, Blacks, Latinos, etc., deserving the same rights, respect and treatment as everyone else. What I'm talking about is the nuances in the discussion, the statements that never get said, the questions that never get asked, because that's the stance and attitude taken in every single discussion started. Boil it down to that and an "end of discussion" attitudes makes sure no one is educated. It's that attitude that despite what you've been taught from the beginning, and what science has said for centuries, you better conform your thoughts right now to what "we're" telling you, be silent, or be socially annihilated. I don't think anyone's ever said that here and if they did, I wasn't supporting them. That's nothing I've ever supported. If you think it is, it's because you demand absolute, immediate conformity without hearing what is actually being said. That's you not listening again. That's because you (general you) don't discuss, you demand conformity. And it's demanded with hurtful and hateful sentiments. For years on end. You also can't lump everyone into the identity of one poster you feel you can't get through to. Because those actions ALSO cause people to leave this board because people refuse to hear what is actually being said and prefer to just label and socially annihilate when they don't conform to your version of what's being said. If you (general you) would ignore that poster you feel doesn't listen, instead of fighting with them, other discussion could happen and they might become enlightened in the process. I agree, because that still isn't what I'm saying. I'll say it once again in hopes you'll hear what is being said to you... Being labeled as paranoid, living in fear, having mental problems, racist, bigot, homophobe, xenophobe, less than human, etc. as WHO ONE IS based on questions answered or thoughts given in a discussion is wrong. Discussion and education is thrown out the window in favor of labeling, diminishing and often the outright destroying of those with the "wrong" thought or opinion. Your description of my "fight" for reasoned discussion as "fighting" for the allowance of bigotry is wrong, misleading and unfair. All I've ever "fought" for is reasoned, rational discussion as opposed to silencing and/or destroying people who don't understand, aren't familiar with, or have been taught otherwise. No one should have to discuss or educate others as to why they, or people like them, should receive the same respect, rights, and be treated the same as everyone else. I'm sorry that is such a hard concept for you to understand. Sometimes people who continue to be hateful and hurtful need to be told to just shut up for the sake of the community, because they certainly aren't interested in learning, nor in treating SOME of their fellow humans with respect and dignity. When you continue to support them after YEARS of the same hateful garbage out of their mouths, you support what they spew. And people who are targeted understandably leave. You can't have it both ways - you can't support people in their ignorant spewing of verbal sewage, even when presented with multiple opportunities to learn, and then pretend to be sad when the people they spit on, with your blessing, leave. No one needs, or should have, to "discuss" and "teach" their value as human beings to other people. It is the responsibility of those who "learned wrong" to educate themselves after being presented with one person saying "hey, that isn't reality!" It isn't that hard. It really isn't. And it is fascinating that you only go to the mat for one side in all of these arguments and attempt to shut down the other side yourself. Why don't you imagine what it would be like to be expected to discuss for years on end why you should be allowed to have a bank account, own property, drive a car, and vote, because you are just an idiot emotional woman who doesn't deserve shit? And the same assholes came back with the same idiotic arguments about Eve being created from Adam's rib, and how Broca showed that women have smaller brains than men, that husbands can never rape their wives, etc. Year after year being told how stupid you are, and how you are sinning because you don't submit to your husband 100% of the time. And some other men keep telling you that you just need to listen to all those people telling you to shut up and spread your legs, because that is what they learned. And that no matter how you respond, you are still told you need to listen to them telling you to shut up, strip, lie down and spread them. That you will never to deserve an equal voice because you have a vagina. How long would you stay in an environment where you were expected to just sit there and listen to that shit again and again and again?
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 2:04:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2016 4:08:06 GMT
Your description of my "fight" for reasoned discussion as "fighting" for the allowance of bigotry is wrong, misleading and unfair. All I've ever "fought" for is reasoned, rational discussion as opposed to silencing and/or destroying people who don't understand, aren't familiar with, or have been taught otherwise. No one should have to discuss or educate others as to why they, or people like them, should receive the same respect, rights, and be treated the same as everyone else. I'll be as concise as I possibly can this time. THAT is NOT what I'm saying.
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Post by elaine on Jul 23, 2016 4:23:10 GMT
No one should have to discuss or educate others as to why they, or people like them, should receive the same respect, rights, and be treated the same as everyone else. I'll be as concise as I possibly can this time. THAT is NOT what I'm saying. Yes, it is. You've said it several times to me already in this thread, and you have demonstrated it time and time again in defending the same people in spewing their hate-filled rhetoric, even when they have been given multiple opportunities to learn over years. When you spend as much energy on even ONE THREAD to educate, rebuke and dispute Rainbow about her views on LGBT individuals and rights as you do me against the hate and bigotry that I see here, I'll be more than willing to see this as a character trait of you, rather than a bs excuse to support beliefs that you share without wanting to take the direct flak for it. But you would be more than happy to silence me and my half of the discussion and let rainbow's crap stand as some paragon of truth. Just don't pretend to be sad that Dani may take a break on one hand, while on the other expecting her to shoulder the responsibility of somehow educating all the ignorant whites on this board who have plenty of ways and opportunities to educate themselves.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 23, 2016 4:59:40 GMT
Dani, I wish you hadn't been made to feel unwelcome. I'm sorry you are hurting. I greatly appreciate your contribution to this board and hope you will continue to provide your much needed perspective.
The climate in the country is rancorous and ugly. I have a friend (well, former friend) who went on the ugliest rant on FB today. I couldn't let his ignorant, racist statements pass. The entire engagement left me sad. I once thought highly of this man, and here he was, spewing anti-immigrant and anti-BLM rhetoric. I tried to engage civilly and was met with angry absolutes. I felt like someone I respected - and whom I believed had a great deal of respect for me and my family - didn't feel that we are fully American or fully human, after all. It is tough to explain the pain of this to a person who refuses to see that it happens.
In a way, I imagine that's what you feel like when you read certain comments here, and I'm sorry for that.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 2:04:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2016 6:08:55 GMT
I'll be as concise as I possibly can this time. THAT is NOT what I'm saying. Yes, it is. You've said it several times to me already in this thread, and you have demonstrated it time and time again This is you, once again not hearing what is being said to you, but instead, what you have DECIDED I probably mean by it. It's very reminiscent of that gun thread last month or so where you did the same thing and someone known for being unbiased had to finally step in and say you're the one creating meaning that isn't there. I did just that. Funny thing is, it didn't take near the time and energy for her to "get it" as it does for you to comprehend the actual words being said vs. your penchant for coming up with alternate meaning of them. And this IS the crux of the problem. Instead of trying to understand, instead of realizing my words are saying that we're on the same side, instead of hearing and comprehending what is ACTUALLY being said, you decide my words mean something else besides their actual meaning and demonize me for YOUR interpretation. This is the kind of attitude and behavior that stops people from participating in these kinds of conversations. You're creating an environment where discussion can't take place without a major battle or leaving with their character annihilated and their reputation ruined. All that despite the fact that we're on the same side.Once again. Your description of my "fight" for reasoned discussion as "fighting" for the allowance of bigotry is wrong, misleading and unfair. All I've ever "fought" for is reasoned, rational discussion as opposed to silencing and/or destroying people who don't understand, aren't familiar with, or have been taught otherwise. Or in your case, dare to disagree with your speculation of my words.
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