Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,769 
Location: Kentucky
|
Post by Kerri W on Jul 26, 2016 1:48:15 GMT
It seems like such a silly question, but I've honestly never found myself in this position.
My sister and I were very very close until about two years ago. She had a drastic personality change. Our mother battles mental illness and we always said we'd tell each other if we thought there was something going on with the other...I told her gently three times that I thought she needed to see her dr, talk to somebody or that her reaction didn't fit the scenario of a particular event. I mentioned to her DH that I was concerned about her and he said he hadn't noticed any difference. It came up in conversation with her adult DD and I said "your mom seems to be struggling with something...is there anything I can do?" Niece acknowledged it but said she had talked to her mom and sister denied anything was wrong.
In the midst of this she "borrowed" money from my father (not her bio dad but he did raise her), he asked for it back and she told multiple different stories about how she didn't do it, he was losing his memory, etc. Except there was a cancelled check that she signed to prove she did borrow it. She made this into big family drama. None of the rest of us cared about the fact she borrowed money, it's dad's money to do what he wants with. It was the lies and stories she told to try to make herself look good and dragging the rest of the family into it that caused the drama.
Several people in our family have spoken to her about how she has treated our mother. (my dad included and he has been divorced from my mother for over 20 years) She says things that I feel are verbally abusive about how horrible my mom looks, tells her she looks like death, that she looks gross because she's so skinny...it gets much worse. She's just nasty and mean to mom. Remember that mom has major mental health issues...we should be trying to build her up, not tear into her about every move she makes. This was even addressed in a group session with mom's counselor and all of us girls.
There have been multiple other things, but basically just drama and trying to play family members against each other. The drama isn't necessarily new but the negative/mean aspect of it is very uncharacteristic of her "old self."
She is now seeing a counselor at the advice of an attorney helping her with a lawsuit she's in the middle of. I think that's awesome and I hope she gets the help she needs. The problem I have is that she seems to want to just turn the clock back two years and act like there's nothing wrong and we're all peachy keen. I'm not sure I can do that. She has treated us seriously awful and done really mean things. I don't think I can just write it off and pretend it didn't happen.
I told her the last time we were together that we needed to sit down and talk and her response was that everything is fine now that she's got somebody to talk to. Um...no. It isn't. I responded that I was happy she had somebody to talk to but I'd really like to talk. I don't feel like I should ask her for an apology but I feel like I need her to acknowledge what she's done. Advice for how to navigate something like this?
|
|
|
|
Post by dewryce on Jul 26, 2016 1:53:49 GMT
No advice, just (((hugs))). I have a family member that acts in ways that are not okay, partially due to mental illness, and she also wants to brush it under the rug. I haven't figured out how to handle my situation without triggering WWIII, so can't give advice. But did want to say I'm there, I know how it feels, and it sucks. Validation.
|
|
|
|
Post by scrapbookwriter on Jul 26, 2016 2:00:20 GMT
Can you request a session with her and her counselor?
|
|
|
|
Post by Lexica on Jul 26, 2016 2:04:07 GMT
Could she could be terrified that she is beginning to suffer from your mother's mental illness and verbally striking out at those of you who are not showing any symptoms? If she is suffering from some type of mental illness, shouldn't you be kind to her like the counselor suggested you be toward your mom?
Since this is not normal behavior for her, maybe give her the benefit of the doubt on this one, if she is back to her old self now. I wouldn't let her continue to treat me badly if I were you, but if she has changed back to what she used to be, then yeah, I'd probably let it go for now. I would perhaps bring it up down the road and ask her what she feels was going on.
Returning to her previous personality probably couldn't be achieved without counseling and/or medication, could it? I guess I'm confused about what brought about the change in her 2 years ago, and what is making her behave better now?
|
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 26, 2016 2:04:32 GMT
She won't do it. I would set up some serious boundaries with her and let her try to regain trust with you. I'd also suggest that she be kept away from mom, since she is demeaning g her, until you all can trust her again.
You can forgive, for your benefit, without having her acknowledge anything ( because it sounds as if she isn't going to)
Hugs!
|
|
Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,769
Location: Kentucky
|
Post by Kerri W on Jul 26, 2016 2:06:39 GMT
Can you request a session with her and her counselor? Not easily. We don't live in the same state. But I like that as an alternative. SaveSave |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:51:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 2:25:27 GMT
I would advise against going to the counselor with her as that is her space. The counselor is not a mediator and shouldn't be put in that position. If anything was to go wrong in that conversation, your sister could feel her counselor is now against her and stop going. I'm going to assume the counselor would not want to do it anyway.
Personally, I think you have to just go slowly and see where her therapy takes her. It's possible that the affect of her bad behavior on you hasn't really dawned on her yet. Definitely tell her how you feel...that the past few years have been tough and you feel hurt and want to work towards getting things back together but that you need to talk to her about your feelings. That you want it to be a constructive conversation and not an accusation session.
I personally wouldn't worry about an official apology straight away as it may take a few conversations with her for both of you to work out how you feel. That should be both for you to understand where she is coming from and for her to understand how you feel. Let the apology come naturally from those conversations rather than seeking it out specifically.
|
|
|
|
Post by anniefb on Jul 26, 2016 5:24:08 GMT
No advice but sorry you're having to deal with such a difficult situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by mlynn on Jul 26, 2016 6:12:53 GMT
If you bring it up again, when she says there is no need to talk, tell her "I understand that is how YOU feel. But I feel the need to talk things over before I can put it behind me." Hopefully she will understand. |
|
|
|
Post by hop2 on Jul 26, 2016 11:08:10 GMT
I'm sorry. Im sorry you went thru all of that for 2 years. I'm sorry your still dealing with it.
In my limited experience she will not apologize. Her lense of truth is different. She believes the delusions she has cast. She has no clue what your talking about because she's fabricated her 'truth' where she is not responsible. Therefore she has no need in her mind to apologize. It sucks. It alters relationships. It hurts. It's not right. But in my experience it won't change. Though my relative never did seek help so perhaps with awesome therapy? Thing is the therapist may not know what they are dealing with cause they are only hearing the delusional version of everything. ie: my whole family is upset with me over money I never borrowed. I don't know how to deal with their anger and drama.
I hope someone here has some good advise for you. I wish you find peace with the matter. {{{hugs}}}
|
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,151
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jul 26, 2016 11:32:38 GMT
I'm sorry. Im sorry you went thru all of that for 2 years. I'm sorry your still dealing with it. In my limited experience she will not apologize. Her lense of truth is different. She believes the delusions she has cast. She has no clue what your talking about because she's fabricated her 'truth' where she is not responsible. Therefore she has no need in her mind to apologize. It sucks. It alters relationships. It hurts. It's not right. But in my experience it won't change. Though my relative never did seek help so perhaps with awesome therapy? Thing is the therapist may not know what they are dealing with cause they are only hearing the delusional version of everything. ie: my whole family is upset with me over money I never borrowed. I don't know how to deal with their anger and drama. I hope someone here has some good advise for you. I wish you find peace with the matter. {{{hugs}}} Everything hop said is my experience. Therapy i'm sure can help, but a the same time when you are that delusional to your behavior it can also have very little affect. Sadly my advice would be to distance yourself or accept that you aren't going to get what you need from her in terms of acknowledgement. I had the recent experience where a person lied about me to someone. I asked the person about it, they admitted to making up a story that painted me in a not so pleasant light, said why they did it.....yet to this day has not apologized  I believe in their mind they felt justified, although it's far, far from what I feel. You are going to need to accept that this is the way things are and figure out how you can proceed. ((HUGS)) |
|
|
|
Post by Really Red on Jul 26, 2016 11:42:23 GMT
I am so sorry. My aunt is going through this and she is in her 60s. Too young to start this. We are upset, frustrated and our hands are sadly tied.
It totally SUCKS that you can't help. I wish there were a time when she was reasonable that you could talk to her, but I'm sure there isn't. Seeing a counselor would not likely help unless this is not a mental illness. If you are right and it is, she needs more help than a therapy session can give.
I'm just really, really sorry. This is awful
|
|
Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,769
Location: Kentucky
|
Post by Kerri W on Jul 26, 2016 12:11:45 GMT
I'm sorry. Im sorry you went thru all of that for 2 years. I'm sorry your still dealing with it. In my limited experience she will not apologize. Her lense of truth is different. She believes the delusions she has cast. She has no clue what your talking about because she's fabricated her 'truth' where she is not responsible. Therefore she has no need in her mind to apologize. It sucks. It alters relationships. It hurts. It's not right. But in my experience it won't change. Though my relative never did seek help so perhaps with awesome therapy? Thing is the therapist may not know what they are dealing with cause they are only hearing the delusional version of everything. ie: my whole family is upset with me over money I never borrowed. I don't know how to deal with their anger and drama. I hope someone here has some good advise for you. I wish you find peace with the matter. {{{hugs}}} Omg there is so much truth in this. She has already talked about some of the things her counselor told her that left me thinking "the counselor is only getting part of the story." Im so thankful for the peas and their infinite wisdom. Our family is large and has always been very close. It hurts that she has put this little fracture in it. I pray that we can all continue to see the situation for what it is and not let her behavior cause problems. |
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on Jul 26, 2016 12:46:32 GMT
From what you describe, it sounds as if she is impulsive in her behavior and speech, and that she lies to others (and maybe herself). This doesn't rise to the level of mental illness in my book, but it's not someone who accepts the consequences of their behavior and not someone who is easy to be around.
Your question - what if I'm not ready to move on - is a good one. She's not going to suddenly turn into an introspective person who takes responsibility for her behavior. So how much do you want her in your life? Are you willing to accept her as the flawed person she is in order to have some sort of relationship with her? Or do you feel your life is happier without her?
In my case, I'm happier without a few family members whose behavior will never change. I miss them, but not enough to put up with all the drama.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:51:51 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 13:20:03 GMT
From what you describe, it sounds as if she is impulsive in her behavior and speech, and that she lies to others (and maybe herself). This doesn't rise to the level of mental illness in my book, but it's not someone who accepts the consequences of their behavior and not someone who is easy to be around. Your question - what if I'm not ready to move on - is a good one. She's not going to suddenly turn into an introspective person who takes responsibility for her behavior. So how much do you want her in your life? Are you willing to accept her as the flawed person she is in order to have some sort of relationship with her? Or do you feel your life is happier without her? In my case, I'm happier without a few family members whose behavior will never change. I miss them, but not enough to put up with all the drama. ^^^ this. I've learned that you can't expect an apology/acknowledgement from someone doesn't think they've done anything wrong. I've had to sever ties with a family member (and therefore a few others around her) because I cannot move on from what happened to me and she refuses to admit it happened let alone take responsibility for it. So you'll have to decide how much you want her in your life. You can't force her to be sorry to you for what she's said and done. |
|
|
|
Post by malibou on Jul 26, 2016 13:56:52 GMT
I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.
J
|
|
|
|
Post by originalvanillabean on Jul 26, 2016 13:58:41 GMT
((Hugs))
|
|
|
|
Post by mom on Jul 26, 2016 20:16:17 GMT
oh, my. I've taken a page out of my family's book.
I have a sister much like yours.
I ask this gently, but is there any way she is an addict? My sister was aaddicted to prescription pills and this is the behavior we saw. Reactions would not match a scenio/event. Lying when the truth was physically in front of her. Then would deny any issues between us.
We went through years of this with my sister, but thankfully, she to rehab and got clean a couple of years ago.
I am sorry you are in this position. Its hard to know what to do when the other person clearly isn't in there right mind.
|
|
Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,769
Location: Kentucky
|
Post by Kerri W on Jul 26, 2016 21:00:34 GMT
I ask this gently, but is there any way she is an addict? My sister was aaddicted to prescription pills and this is the behavior we saw. Reactions would not match a scenio/event. Lying when the truth was physically in front of her. Then would deny any issues between us. Well...it's not completely impossible. She had a very painful injury at the gym a couple years ago that several doctors have told her she is just going to have to learn to live with. I know she is taking pain medication but she's evasive about *what* she's taking. This has been one of my concerns.  Thanks so much peas! It truly means a lot to me to read the kind words and hugs. Y'all rock! SaveSave |
|
|
|
Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 26, 2016 21:45:44 GMT
Hugs to you. If it is mental illness, take it from me be understanding but that doesn't mean you tolerate bad behavior. Even people with the worst mental illness have moments of rationality and should be able to look at what they've done with a clear head. Be careful in your approach because you want to encourage her to seek treatment but you don't want to get too close because you don't want to get burned either. I have my own struggles with mental illness and there have been times when I behaved in a way I was not proud of. I have had to face those moments head on and accept the consequences. And I'm currently dealing with a son who is trying to find his way after a bipolar diagnosis and I can excuse some behaviors like withdrawing and not wanting to attend family events but other behaviors he still has to have consequences. I do not allow him to get away with being a jerk to anyone.
But I have a hard time forgiving people who aren't truly remorseful and don't make a commitment to changing their behavior and seeking the treatment they need.
|
|
cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
|
Post by cycworker on Jul 27, 2016 2:22:53 GMT
Honestly? If I were in your situation I'd seek counselling for myself. You aren't, as others noted, likely to get the apology you want. A counselor can help you come to terms with that & figure out how you're going to let it go so you can maintain the relationship for the sake of your family.
|
|
inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
|
Post by inkedup on Jul 27, 2016 3:20:36 GMT
I'm glad your sister is receiving help, and I completely understand how you feel. I hope that part of your sister's counseling involves taking responsibility, and apologizing for, the way she has treated others. I would have probably told my sister exactly what you did if I were in your shoes.
|
|
|
|
Post by betsyg on Jul 27, 2016 19:08:29 GMT
Honestly? If I were in your situation I'd seek counselling for myself. You aren't, as others noted, likely to get the apology you want. A counselor can help you come to terms with that & figure out how you're going to let it go so you can maintain the relationship for the sake of your family. Agree on seeking counseling about how to deal with/accept this. At the end of the day, you only have control over yourself - what you say, what you don't say, what you do, what you don't do, how you respond and if you respond, and the boundaries you put up. You will be disappointed if you have expectations of her because you can't make her do anything, including apologize. |
|
I believe in their mind they felt justified, although it's far, far from what I feel. 
