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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 26, 2016 18:25:46 GMT
In fairness Trump's looks have been discussed here. The orange glow, his hair. So it's not like only Hillary's personal looks are being discussed. Let's face it neither of them are attractive human beings but they aren't running in a beauty contest so it really shouldn't matter. However, they appear to be judged equally. Up until this post I would have actually said that Trump's personal look was being judged more than Hillary. And Maliana was discussed and said to be copying Caitlyn Jenner because she wore a white dress.
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Post by bc2ca on Jul 26, 2016 18:26:04 GMT
Any woman in high level government. I think at her level $1400 for a pant suit is very reasonable. She needs to look professional. If she wore an off the rack JC Penny's suit we'd be tearing her apart for dressing like a pauper and not taking her role in government seriously. High level government (or women in positions similar to Clinton's), yes. "any 50+ age women in government", no. And honestly, I think she looks fine and I don't have any beef with the cost of her garments. My problem comes from others trying to normalize this kind of expenditure as "ya, ALL women that age do this" when it's really just not true. I haven't had to buy or wear a suit for years, but just took a look at what I was paying when in the corporate world and, in today's dollars, it would be +$1200, so I do think it is normal for women in business and government at most levels to be spending at this price point, not just women in the highest level positions. FTR, 90% of my work wardrobe was bought on sale, so it may have been a +$1200 suit but bought for much less . SaveSave
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 26, 2016 18:28:01 GMT
In fairness Trump's looks have been discussed here. The orange glow, his hair. So it's not like only Hillary's personal looks are being discussed. Let's face it neither of them are attractive human beings but they aren't running in a beauty contest so it really shouldn't matter. However, they appear to be judged equally. Up until this post I would have actually said that Trump's personal look was being judged more than Hillary. And Maliana was discussed and said to be copying Caitlyn Jenner because she wore a white dress. I thought Melania looked quite polished, and her dress was interesting and appropriate. I think the Jenner copying came about after the speech copying because it made a funny meme to some. But, I thought she looked very nice.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 26, 2016 18:29:05 GMT
I don't know
I would like to know who is her stylist. If she picks her own stuff fine, I'm not fashion plate either. However if she pays a professional to tell her to wear collarless boxy long suit jackets or jacket dresses that have no shape she's wasting her money.
She look so much better in seperate with a defined neckline and waist or even a collar.
Doesn't affect my vote either way
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 26, 2016 18:29:13 GMT
We talk about Trumps hair, Bernie's frugal look and other candidates suits! Think how Rick Perry was blasted for his cowboy outfits and change to "intellectual" glasses.
It's sexist to say a mention of Hillary's clothes means her policies aren't being read or reviewed. It seems overly rude to insult a poster for one mention of it.
Personally I think it's odd she's floundered so much style-wise over the years since she's had advisors. In 1991-92 I thought she wasn't paying attention. 25 years later it feels a little like she's putting on an act or something is off. Other women in politics have accepted this as part of the job requirement. Men too as far back as JFK and television coverage.
All candidates clothes need (maybe)!to look good on tv. Their stitching and details have to be better in HD and under the lights. We are asking them to be in an above average position. I don't know why we expect them to have average tools /clothes.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 26, 2016 18:31:40 GMT
And Maliana was discussed and said to be copying Caitlyn Jenner because she wore a white dress. I thought Melania looked quite polished, and her dress was interesting and appropriate. I think the Jenner copying came about after the speech copying because it made a funny meme to some. But, I thought she looked very nice. I did too and never would have equated a white dress to Caitlyn Jenner I actually love looking at clothes and what people wear, but know it's a touchy subject to discuss on the internet. I miss watching What Not To Wear and learning all about fit and tailoring.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 26, 2016 18:31:55 GMT
I just looked up the "Ivanka dress" and it looks like her clothes are made out of the country. Wonder if her business will be subjected to the same tax that Donald thinks will help to bring business back to the US? It would be most impressive if she'd opened factories in the US wouldn't it? When you start with her kind of backing it's easier to do instead of claiming she had to for the economics.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 26, 2016 18:32:40 GMT
Personally I think it's odd she's floundered so much style-wise over the years since she's had advisors. In 1991-92 I thought she wasn't paying attention. 25 years later it feels a little like she's putting on an act or something is off. Other women in politics have accepted this as part of the job requirement. Men too as far back as JFK and television coverage. Er, there hasn't been another woman who has risen to THIS level of politics. Sad, but true. So, she's blazing a trail here. And I don't give a flying fuck WHAT she wears while she does it, though she has been taking this crap for 25 years now. Gracefully, I might add.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 26, 2016 18:50:25 GMT
Personally I think it's odd she's floundered so much style-wise over the years since she's had advisors. In 1991-92 I thought she wasn't paying attention. 25 years later it feels a little like she's putting on an act or something is off. Other women in politics have accepted this as part of the job requirement. Men too as far back as JFK and television coverage. Er, there hasn't been another woman who has risen to THIS level of politics. Sad, but true. So, she's blazing a trail here. And I don't give a flying fuck WHAT she wears while she does it, though she has been taking this crap for 25 years now. Gracefully, I might add. You're missing my point. Men take it too. Yes she's had more of it, but getting angry and making it a cause doesn't make it go away. I think she's accepted it and decided to thumb her nose at it. She knows a discussion about it doesn't mean her policies aren't being examined. Any publicity is good publicity sort of way. If you want to get angry, be mad her good ideas haven't been adopted. Don't chew someone out for being interested in a beaded jacket if that's what catches their attention.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 26, 2016 18:51:38 GMT
Er, there hasn't been another woman who has risen to THIS level of politics. Sad, but true. So, she's blazing a trail here. And I don't give a flying fuck WHAT she wears while she does it, though she has been taking this crap for 25 years now. Gracefully, I might add. You're missing my point. Men take it too. Yes she's had more of it, but getting angry and making it a cause doesn't make it go away. I think she's accepted it and decided to thumb her nose at it. Men take it to a degree far, far less than women. And, I agree with you that she's decided everybody can go scratch and she's going to wear what she likes and what is comfortable for her.
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Post by Laurie on Jul 26, 2016 18:53:14 GMT
I just looked up the "Ivanka dress" and it looks like her clothes are made out of the country. Wonder if her business will be subjected to the same tax that Donald thinks will help to bring business back to the US? Or perhaps it will become more cost effective to move it back to the US after factoring in shipping costs and these supposed taxes. My family owns a manufacturing business and we have customers come to us all the time with what they want and their price expectation. Instantly we know if it is China pricing or US pricing that they expect. We will present them a quote with the parts being made in China and a quote with us building it in our manufacturing plant in South Dakota. We have yet to have a customer take the US pricing so we order them to be manufactured in China, shipped to us. Of all of the parts we sell these are the ones with the highest profit margin. We receive them in, put them in our box and ship them out. Not much cost into them. This started out as a small percentage of our business but has grown in the last 5 years. We would much rather build the part here in our plant but in the US there is no way of making the products for fifty cents like they do in China. I just saw one of our quotes recently...45 cents (including the shipping to get them from China to here) for made in China or over $6 made here in our plant.
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Post by Laurie on Jul 26, 2016 18:55:43 GMT
I just looked up the "Ivanka dress" and it looks like her clothes are made out of the country. Wonder if her business will be subjected to the same tax that Donald thinks will help to bring business back to the US? Or perhaps it will become more cost effective to move it back to the US after factoring in shipping costs and these supposed taxes. My family owns a manufacturing business and we have customers come to us all the time with what they want and their price expectation. Instantly we know if it is China pricing or US pricing that they expect. We will present them a quote with the parts being made in China and a quote with us building it in our manufacturing plant in South Dakota. We have yet to have a customer take the US pricing so we order them to be manufactured in China, shipped to us. Of all of the parts we sell these are the ones with the highest profit margin. We receive them in, put them in our box and ship them out. Not much cost into them. This started out as a small percentage of our business but has grown in the last 5 years. We would much rather build the part here in our plant but in the US there is no way of making the products for fifty cents like they do in China. I just saw one of our quotes recently...45 cents (including the shipping to get them from China to here) for made in China or over $6 made here in our plant. We would love to see that gap closed so our employees can start building the parts here in the US. Until US pricing is competitive with having it imported in from China it unfortunately won't happen.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 26, 2016 18:57:23 GMT
Unless she is dressing in a bikini or a tube top on the campaign trail, her wardrobe choice is irrelevant. My own mother was an over-50 woman in government and rocked the pantsuit like there was no tomorrow. I don't know how much she paid for each pantsuit but they weren't cheap. She earned a healthy six-figure income and could afford to dress well and professionally so she did. Seriously. Can we please stfu about her pantsuits, hairstyle, wrinkles, and every other thing that has nothing to do with her experience or ability to govern? They have a point. We do spend an inordinate amount of time discussing the orange glow and bright yellow hair. Aside from Donald Trump's weirdnesses, though, I have to say I am uninterested in most candidates' looks, fashion choices, etc.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 26, 2016 19:01:48 GMT
Ugh. Do you discuss Trump's wardrobe? Would it be more exciting if he wore something other than neutral pantsuits? Or is wardrobe only relevant because she's a woman? It *is* sexist because you are only worrying about her wardrobe because she's a woman. of course we are not talking get trumps normal wardrobe, it is boring. I will talk shit about that hideous red trucker hat. It isn't sexist to discuss a woman's outfits. It is call a conversation. we discussed the women on the rnc, I said one guys tie looked like a candy cane and was distracting. I talk about the suits the commentator for the Avalanche wears, I used to Don cherry, i do the coaches on the voice and I sure as he'll wondered what ceelo easy wearing when he was on it.
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Post by secondlife on Jul 26, 2016 19:05:46 GMT
Oh lord, we've been talking about Hillary's wardrobe since what, 1991? Back when she wore headbands that matched her suits?
25 years later and it's still the same old.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 26, 2016 19:06:24 GMT
Unless she is dressing in a bikini or a tube top on the campaign trail, her wardrobe choice is irrelevant. My own mother was an over-50 woman in government and rocked the pantsuit like there was no tomorrow. I don't know how much she paid for each pantsuit but they weren't cheap. She earned a healthy six-figure income and could afford to dress well and professionally so she did. Seriously. Can we please stfu about her pantsuits, hairstyle, wrinkles, and every other thing that has nothing to do with her experience or ability to govern? but it is okay to discuss trumps hair, the fact that he looks like grumpy cat, and a bunch of his other flaws?
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marianne
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys. . . My monkeys fly!
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Location: right smack dab in the middle of SC
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Jun 25, 2014 21:08:26 GMT
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Post by marianne on Jul 26, 2016 19:06:24 GMT
Let's face it neither of them are attractive human beings... I suppose it depends on your definition of attractive and obviously your standard of attractiveness is quite high. Personally, I think it's a really nasty thing to say. Both of these people were attractive in their younger days and few of us are able to maintain that level of "attractiveness" as we grow older, Hillary and Donald included. Guaranteed if they had cosmetic surgery to enhance their looks, they'd be ridiculed and criticized for that. I think it's ludicrous to judge anyone by their looks... people can't help how they were born. Now if you want to talk about unattractive character and personality, well, that's a different story.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 26, 2016 19:07:30 GMT
And WHO told Donald Trump to wear that awful makeup? Can't he find a Mary Kay lady? I thought it was from over-tanning, not makeup, but what do I know? It seems like the white patches around his eyes are a giveaway. whatever. Not a good look. But I'm trying to be above saying such a thing. So far ... not working all that well.
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Post by mom on Jul 26, 2016 19:12:06 GMT
I don't care how much she pays for her wardrobe, but I think she looks frumpy. Adding in some color and a pattern every now and then wouldnt hurt her.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
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Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Jul 26, 2016 19:12:08 GMT
I really like in the teal that Hillary was in when she was with Kain in Florida ,Teal is a good color for her. I don't like the oversized coats. It makes her look really outdated. I really liked Michelle Obamas dress last night she did a good job and looked really great in the blue.I even liked Ivanka's dress. I don't know how I feel about her. I think she's callin more shots than we know. I'm not a fan of either but I think you can comment on them with out getting super personal. Even my Dh said last night that if Trump need to tone his hair color down if he's gonna move on and up.. I kinda laughed it was kinda funny hearing it come from a guy!
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jul 26, 2016 19:14:07 GMT
Politically - I've never really noticed Hillary's clothing, except for one yellow jacket that I though was pretty & looked nice on her, probably because I love yellow. I haven't really noticed her hairstyle either. I couldn't tell you what Trump has worn during the campaign, other than it's a suit and tie. I have noticed his hair and..er..cosmetics, however. For me, if they take the time and effort to look appropriately nice for the position (since this is basically a job interview), it shows me that they respect themselves and the position.
Personally - I'm pretty frugal, and I can't imagine an item of clothing costing that much (with the exception of the occasional wedding gown). So I guess if I'm honest, I do have to say that someone who is fiscally responsible/modest with their personal spending would be a tick on the positive box for me. Of course, that responsible/modest definition is going to be different for everyone.
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Post by mom on Jul 26, 2016 19:16:26 GMT
I really like in the teal that Hillary was in when she was with Kain in Florida ,Teal is a good color for her. I don't like the oversized coats. It makes her look really outdated. I really liked Michelle Obamas dress last night she did a good job and looked really great in the blue.I even liked Ivanka's dress. I don't know how I feel about her. I think she's callin more shots than we know. I'm not a fan of either but I think you can comment on them with out getting super personal. Even my Dh said last night that if Trump need to tone his hair color down if he's gonna move on and up.. I kinda laughed it was kinda funny hearing it come from a guy! Agree, completely.
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smartypants71
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Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on Jul 26, 2016 19:18:17 GMT
I don't see anything wrong with Hillary's physical appearance and I couldn't care less what she wears. Remember back when Bill was in office how brutal people were about Chelsea? That was just terrible! I can't imagine what that must have been like for her
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Post by Laurie on Jul 26, 2016 19:27:25 GMT
Let's face it neither of them are attractive human beings... I suppose it depends on your definition of attractive and obviously your standard of attractiveness is quite high. Personally, I think it's a really nasty thing to say. Both of these people were attractive in their younger days and few of us are able to maintain that level of "attractiveness" as we grow older, Hillary and Donald included. Guaranteed if they had cosmetic surgery to enhance their looks, they'd be ridiculed and criticized for that. I think it's ludicrous to judge anyone by their looks... people can't help how they were born. Now if you want to talk about unattractive character and personality, well, that's a different story. Personally my judgement of them is mostly based off character and personality which in turn makes me think people are ugly. LOL For example I know someone that most people would say is attractive. I have seen a mean spirited side, nasty side of her and I consider her unattractive (and a bitch). Similarly once I can't stand a person even the smallest thing about them makes me dislike them more...for example, pantsuits or orange glow.
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MerryMom
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Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Jul 26, 2016 19:28:31 GMT
Hillary has been wearing pantsuits for sometime...not just during this election. In the 2008 elections, she would joke about the "Sisterhood of the Traveling Pantsuit".
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Post by compwalla on Jul 26, 2016 19:39:57 GMT
Unless she is dressing in a bikini or a tube top on the campaign trail, her wardrobe choice is irrelevant. My own mother was an over-50 woman in government and rocked the pantsuit like there was no tomorrow. I don't know how much she paid for each pantsuit but they weren't cheap. She earned a healthy six-figure income and could afford to dress well and professionally so she did. Seriously. Can we please stfu about her pantsuits, hairstyle, wrinkles, and every other thing that has nothing to do with her experience or ability to govern? but it is okay to discuss trumps hair, the fact that he looks like grumpy cat, and a bunch of his other flaws? Um, I have discussed no such things. And the fact that people call him a deranged cheetoh or megalomaniacal Oompa Loompa does not erase the fact that women, in general, are held to a completely different appearance standard that influences people's perception of their ability to do a job in a way that does not apply to men. In this very thread there are people who ask "I'm waiting to hear her plans" when her plans are, in fact, outlined all over the place and anyone who wants to can go read them. Instead the discussion is about her stubby legs, her pantsuits, how much they cost, her hairstyle, her headbands back in the 90's, all kinds of shit other than her qualifications and policy proposals. "She's frumpy" "Her look is outdated." blah blah blah. JFC. Talk about embracing the patriarchy. I'm so fucking done with that shit. SO. DONE.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 26, 2016 20:05:30 GMT
but it is okay to discuss trumps hair, the fact that he looks like grumpy cat, and a bunch of his other flaws? Um, I have discussed no such things. And the fact that people call him a deranged cheetoh or megalomaniacal Oompa Loompa does not erase the fact that women, in general, are held to a completely different appearance standard that influences people's perception of their ability to do a job in a way that does not apply to men. In this very thread there are people who ask "I'm waiting to hear her plans" when her plans are, in fact, outlined all over the place and anyone who wants to can go read them. Instead the discussion is about her stubby legs, her pantsuits, how much they cost, her hairstyle, her headbands back in the 90's, all kinds of shit other than her qualifications and policy proposals. "She's frumpy" "Her look is outdated." blah blah blah. JFC. Talk about embracing the patriarchy. I'm so fucking done with that shit. SO. DONE. you can be done, but it isn't going to change. People can and do judge based on all types of factors. What I read in this thread are a bunch of people stating they don't care about her style of dress, only her plans and that is great. I certainly wouldn't advocate voting based on looks. But just because it isn't a reason to vote, doesn't mean it can't be discussed. We discuss red carpet outfits all the time. We discuss what the people on TV wear, we discuss reality shows, and people in public. But, as I've stated before, I totally judge a myriad of things and I own it.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 26, 2016 20:26:23 GMT
I'll admit that I am touchy about this topic. Not at you, OP, because I'm sure that you are just curious. But females politicians, especially Hillary, are judged constantly by their hair, their clothes, their body, and their voice. In 08, ,I remember that the style editor of the WaPo wrote an article about Hillary's pantsuits. And don't get me started on the comments about her laugh! It is true that Trump's hair and orange glow have been a frequent topic, but mainly because they are so unusual. Most male pols are not subjected to discussions about their looks, although there are always exceptions. OP, if you are curious about her wardrobe, Google will give you more information than you ever wanted. I completely agree! I have a friend who is the mayor of one of the largest cities (top 25) in the US. She constantly has to think about what she wears, is her hair done, she has her picture taken every single day. If I were her, that would be the most exhausting part of the job, knowing people were looking and judging you every single day. Who cares about what leaders wear.. I want to know how they will govern.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 26, 2016 20:27:20 GMT
I don't care how much she pays for her wardrobe, but I think she looks frumpy. Adding in some color and a pattern every now and then wouldnt hurt her. This is me. I used to dress as drab as possible so I would blend into the background. I have worked really hard to add more color and pattern and it has actually made a difference in how I look and how I feel
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 26, 2016 20:28:59 GMT
We talk about Trumps hair, Bernie's frugal look and other candidates suits! Think how Rick Perry was blasted for his cowboy outfits and change to "intellectual" glasses. It's sexist to say a mention of Hillary's clothes means her policies aren't being read or reviewed. It seems overly rude to insult a poster for one mention of it. Personally I think it's odd she's floundered so much style-wise over the years since she's had advisors. In 1991-92 I thought she wasn't paying attention. 25 years later it feels a little like she's putting on an act or something is off. Other women in politics have accepted this as part of the job requirement. Men too as far back as JFK and television coverage. All candidates clothes need (maybe)!to look good on tv. Their stitching and details have to be better in HD and under the lights. We are asking them to be in an above average position. I don't know why we expect them to have average tools /clothes. Of the things you mention Trumps hair is the only one I have heard/read about.
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